Bicycle Mechanics - Vote! warranty issue, or rider problem.

I bought a new Trek 2200 one year ago, almost to the day. I was cranking up a hill, and the rear derailleur somehow caught up in the chain and it bent up and around and apparently into the frame, and I hit the pavement (just a little road rash, and got a ride home from a cute girl!). The end result is that the carbon seat stay is cracked, and the derailleur is mangled like I’ve never seen before. I'm not entirely sure how this happened, whether it was the Shimano part or the frame letting go causing a misalignment. The bike shop took photos and emailed them to Trek, and first reply is that this is not covered under warranty. Everything seemed to be running true prior to this, and derailleur was aligned. I was not shifting at the time. They want me to pay $800 to fix. I'll attach photos when I get them.

This seems unreasonable to me. I believe that this should be a warranty issue. Agree or disagree?

The link to the Trek warranty

http://www2.trekbikes.com/us/en/Inside_Trek/Warranty/Index.php

That blows, What kinda mileage do/did you have on this bike? Did the LBS say that it was in good shape before the wipe-out?

Only 260 miles. It was a weak season last year!

Check where the chain broke. Was it the "factory installed" pin? If the links were starting to seperate they can snag the derailleur and wrap it up. When I worked at a Trek dealer I found about half of the connecting pins were installed incorrectly.

Other than that all I can say is stuff happens. It sucks but riding bikes can be dangerous.

Check where the chain broke. Was it the "factory installed" pin? If the links were starting to seperate they can snag the derailleur and wrap it up. When I worked at a Trek dealer I found about half of the connecting pins were installed incorrectly.

Other than that all I can say is stuff happens. It sucks but riding bikes can be dangerous.

An improperly installed chain is my bet, as well. Is there any chance you did any damage to the chain? Did you ever break it or mess with the master link?

If the shop installed the chain (and did it wrong), your issue may be with them. It may be hard to prove any of this, however.

Check where the chain broke. Was it the "factory installed" pin? If the links were starting to seperate they can snag the derailleur and wrap it up. When I worked at a Trek dealer I found about half of the connecting pins were installed incorrectly.

Other than that all I can say is stuff happens. It sucks but riding bikes can be dangerous.

I'll look at the chain. I didn't check that. Thanks for the info! I've been riding for about 20 years, and have never seen anything like this!

I bought a new Trek 2200 one year ago, almost to the day. I was cranking up a hill, and the rear derailleur somehow caught up in the chain and it bent up and around and apparently into the frame, and I hit the pavement (just a little road rash, and got a ride home from a cute girl!). The end result is that the carbon seat stay is cracked, and the derailleur is mangled like I’ve never seen before. I'm not entirely sure how this happened, whether it was the Shimano part or the frame letting go causing a misalignment. The bike shop took photos and emailed them to Trek, and first reply is that this is not covered under warranty. Everything seemed to be running true prior to this, and derailleur was aligned. I was not shifting at the time. They want me to pay $800 to fix. I'll attach photos when I get them.

This seems unreasonable to me. I believe that this should be a warranty issue. Agree or disagree?

The link to the Trek warranty

http://www2.trekbikes.com/us/en/Inside_Trek/Warranty/Index.php


Well, for US $800 you can buy an excellent steel road frame that will serve you a lifetime. To be fair, I like the Trek 2200's geometry a lot, but hate anything carbon.

Any chance the derailer pivoted out of place? You might want to visually inspect the hanger. Do a bit of CSI.

Yes stuff happens...and bike riding can be dangerous ....but expensive at the hand of a bike mechanic, maybe? I usually err on the side of stuff happens but I would look good at what might have caused the error. peace

Not enough information given. If the deraileur was improperly adjusted by a non Trek dealer, or the chain was broken and not put back together correctly, then no, it is not a Trek issue. If the frame or drive train failed and caused the problem, then yes, a warranty issue. Gonna be hard to prove this one. However, Trek replaced/repaired a frame for me (broke off a thermally bonded shifter mount) back in the late 80's and I told my LBS that I wrecked and broke the shifter off the bike.

It seems the issue here is cost since it appears that physically you are ok. The OP is asking who should foot the bill for replacement of the frame and other effected components. Of course like others have said, it appears that the devil is in the details.

You need to reach some sort of conclusion as to what happened. Also remember that your warranty is offered from the manufacturer and not the dealer. So if you get unsatisfactory results, I would:

1. Take it to other dealers first and see if you can find somebody to help you out with submitting as warranty.

2. Go to Trek directly, probably after option #1 has been exhausted.


Just don't get caught up in a pissing match with a particular dealer. It won't do you any good.

Here are the warranty details"


This warranty does not cover-
Normal wear and tear
Improper assembly
Improper follow-up maintenance
Installation of parts or accessories not originally intended for, or compatible with, the bicycle as sold
Damage or failure due to accident, misuse, abuse, or neglect
Labor charges for part replacement or changeover

This warranty is void in its entirety by any modification of the frame, fork, or components.
This warranty is expressly limited to the repair or replacement of a defective item and is the sole remedy of the warranty. This warranty extends from the date of purchase, applies only to the original owner, and is not transferable. Trek Bicycle Corporation is not responsible for incidental or consequential damages. Some states do not allow the exclusion of incidental or consequential damages, so the above exclusion may not apply to you. Claims under this warranty must be made through an authorized Trek dealer. Proof of purchase is required. The subject item must be registered with Trek Bicycle Corporation, either through on-line registration or by the receipt of a warranty registration card by Trek Bicycle Corporation, before a warranty claim may be processed. Warranty duration and detail may differ by frame type and/or by country. This warranty gives the consumer specific legal rights, and those rights may vary from place to place. This warranty does not affect the statutory rights of the consumer.

Carbon crash replacement policy
Assessing any damage done to a carbon fiber part requires more experience than is needed to inspect metal parts. If you crash or impact your bike and the force of the impact is absorbed by a carbon part, we strongly encourage you to replace the part, even if there are no indications of damage. If such a crash or impact occurs, Trek offers a crash replacement program for carbon parts, substantially reducing any replacement cost. To take advantage of this program, contact us using the information listed above and ask for the Warranty department.

Operator error...

Operator error...

Really? How so? It's a mechanical failure. Should it matter which part? I n my business, I always stand behind my product and honor the warranty.

Really? How so? It's a mechanical failure. Should it matter which part? I n my business, I always stand behind my product and honor the warranty.

Bottom line is Trek should replace/repair as new the frame if it is within the warranty and it wasn't misused or abused and if assembly was from an authorized dealer!

Bottom line is Trek should replace/repair as new the frame if it is within the warranty and it wasn't misused or abused and if assembly was from an authorized dealer!

I disagree. Long before the incident that ruined the frame the operator could have mis-shifted or shifted under load or dropped the chain and kept pedaling or crashed and caused damage to the chain or removed and re-installed the chain or ........... Did the operator inspect the bike before the ride? That damage could have gone un-noticed and been the cause of the crash that ruined the frame. Trek offers a warranty against manufacturer's defect, not insurance. My experience is that Trek is very generous with their warranty.

The bottom line is that we all have to take some responsibilty in everything that happens to us. it's not black and white.

I had a chain break while climbing, and the exposed pin grabbed a jockey wheel and mangled the RD and dropout. Check your jockey wheels to see if it appears a pin stuck in yours, too.

I disagree. Long before the incident that ruined the frame the operator could have mis-shifted or shifted under load or dropped the chain and kept pedaling or crashed and caused damage to the chain or removed and re-installed the chain or ........... Did the operator inspect the bike before the ride? That damage could have gone un-noticed and been the cause of the crash that ruined the frame. Trek offers a warranty against manufacturer's defect, not insurance. My experience is that Trek is very generous with their warranty.

The bottom line is that we all have to take some responsibilty in everything that happens to us. it's not black and white.

Couldn't have said it better or more clearly...

In short, there is no insurance for stupidity...

Buy a steel frame.

Buy a steel frame.

+1

This seems unreasonable to me. I believe that this should be a warranty issue. Agree or disagree?



Disagree (until you can determine the exact cause of the mishap).

Trek's warranty doesn't cover all failures. If it did, then your situation would be covered. But until you can prove that the failure was due to something covered under the warranty, you are sol.

If this sounds like we're talking about an insurance claim, that's essentially what a warranty is.

Bob

Buy a steel frame.

Or Ti

For $800 you can snag a full carbon frame today if that is your cup of tea.

Had a chain(Shimano Ultegra) separate and destroyed the smallest cog on the rear cassette but nothing else. 3 mile walk home was not pleasant. I think the Shimano pins system on their chains is outdated.

I was cranking up a hill, and the rear derailleur somehow caught up in the chain and it bent up and around and apparently into the frame, and I hit the pavement

without more information than this my vote is operator error.

-jk

This is not the first time something like this has happened. I detailed a similar incident in a thread in which I pointed out the inherent weakness of CF seatstays. The guy had messed with his limit screws, shifted into the spokes and ripped the derailleur off. The now freed mech went round the wheel and smashed into the seatstay cracking it. Any other material commonly used in bikes would have weathered the incident with only scratches, but not CF. I'm not a CF hater-one of my bikes is a Madone, but I have no illusions of it's ability to withstand impacts like what you experienced.

I agree, anytime something like this happens, it stinks.

Without examining the bike myself, I can draw no conclusion.

Some thoughts: If there has ever been, as someone else mentioned, a really bad shift or a jammed or thrown chain, the chain may have been damaged and was a ticking bomb.

You may be able to press a warranty if no one other than your shop has ever touched the drivetrain and there is evidence of a dimpled outer plate where the pin was pressed in at the point where the chain failed indicating possible damage during original installation. This would have happened at the factory, and while some astute wrenches might notice it during assembly and adjustment, many would not.


It is always wise to observe your chain closely while turning the crank backwards by hand(off the bike!) once a week or so, or anytime you've snagged it, or misshifted. Often, you can spot a deformed plate quite easily and this will save money and skin.

Good luck with this.

what an articulate post.

Thank you, BikeWise1

Operator error...

Never...

Googled: Keywords = " chain suck (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22chain+suck%22) "



The chain fails to disengage from the bottom teeth of a front chain-ring ; instead the teeth snag the chain and carry it up and around the rear circumference of the ring, winding it back onto itself, and jamming it between the chain-rings and chain-stay.

Because it usually occurs unexpectedly during forceful pedalling, the chain can be permanently twisted, teeth can be damaged, and chain-stays of aluminium or carbon-fibre can also be damaged by the chain being wedged hard against them.

Never...

Sorry! Rider error...

Seriously, if you shift into your biggest sprocket while under load, there is a lot of stress being place on the derailleur and chain. Any problems that may exist in the drivetrain, however small, will be amplified. This was the case of a bike that that probably wasn't adjusted properly and was shifted while under an, admittedly, large load. The chain probably overshifted and got caught up. Forward momentum did the rest...

Check where the chain broke. Was it the "factory installed" pin? If the links were starting to seperate they can snag the derailleur and wrap it up. When I worked at a Trek dealer I found about half of the connecting pins were installed incorrectly.

This appears to be the case. The chain pin is pushed out and apparently caught the RD, and pulled it around into the frame, and broke the rear carbon stay. It's still hard to tell what happened, though. The RD did not rip away from the frame like it's designed to either. The manger of the bike shop didn't think that an issue with the chain would cause this to happen.

Either way, it sounds like Trek is not going to cover this, and perhaps they are correct. However, it leaves a bad taste with me that they would just walk away with the bike within the one year period.

In short, there is no insurance for stupidity...

Really....Is there a need for this? We are all examining this type of a mechanical failure, and hopefully learning something. The bike has been maintained properly, has only 260 miles on it, never shifted under hard loads, and when the failure occured, I was simply riding up a hill in 2nd gear. I had my last bike for 20 years, repacked the bearings every year, and replaced the worn parts as need. Never had a problem!

Operator error


Never...

LOLZ!

Really....Is there a need for this? We are all examining this type of a mechanical failure, and hopefully learning something. The bike has been maintained properly, has only 260 miles on it, never shifted under hard loads, and when the failure occured, I was simply riding up a hill in 2nd gear. I had my last bike for 20 years, repacked the bearings every year, and replaced the worn parts as need. Never had a problem!

The BS flag just went all the way to the top of the pole.

First, you said you were "cranking up a hill", which seems to indicate that you were riding hard. Now, you were simply "riding up a hill"...which is it?

If you were, in fact, just riding along, the chain may have failed, but would not have caused so much damage. And that's a proven fact. If you were in "2nd gear" and the chain got caught, the rear wheel would have simply stopped and locked up. The r/d had to be moving for it to get caught up in the stay. Odds are, you shifted up, under load into whatever your top cog was, the r/d overshifted (not set-up/adjusted properly) and the chain broke.
Please do not blame Trek, as much as they are the giant succubus of the industry, for your LBS not having a clue or your own operator error.

For anyone who is interested. Here's a pic of the damage. Best I can tell a failure in the chain caught the RD and wrapped it around.

For anyone who is interested. Here's a pic of the damage. Best I can tell a failure in the chain caught the RD and wrapped it around.

Wow :eek: I would be raising hell with my LBS if they sere responsible for performed check ups. I just can't see that happening in the first year of ownership, that is why you buy it new and not used off Ebay. I know the LBS or Trek can't back up every situation or issue but that looks clearly like mechanical failure that caused permanent frame damage. As long as everything was stock and not tampered with something should be covered or done to make the repair affordable.

User error. You shifted that baby into the spokes.

C.S.I. Jim says:

1. chain is on large cog indicationg a shift into the large cog.
2. lower pulley wheel is missing indicating a shift into the spokes
3. If you take a picture of the body of the derailleur from an angle showing the lettering I'll pretty much gaurantee it has scrap marks on it. Scrap marks indicate prior damage.
4. owner states "I was cranking up a hill' thus implicating himself in shifting into the spokes.

Sorry....

User error. You shifted that baby into the spokes.

C.S.I. Jim says:

1. chain is on large cog indicationg a shift into the large cog.
2. lower pulley wheel is missing indicating a shift into the spokes
3. If you take a picture of the body of the derailleur from an angle showing the lettering I'll pretty much gaurantee it has scrap marks on it. Scrap marks indicate prior damage.
4. owner states "I was cranking up a hill' thus implicating himself in shifting into the spokes.

Sorry....

Did you notice the pin sticking out of the chain? Look towards the top of the large cog. I didn't shift at the time of the incident, or a even few rotations before. I'm sure when the RD let go, it moved the chain. The RD was operating properly. Now chain damage cause by me earlier? That's a more likely probability. I'll look for scrape marks on the RD, but I've never dropped the bike.

It seems the concensus here is that Trek should not be responsible, and I was looking for a few unbiased views, before I told the LBS to go ahead and get the replacement frame. Thanks to every one that replied! Hopefully everyone who reads this will take a little extra care to examine their chain for problems on a regular basis, and check their RD.

Never...


:beer: :roflmao:


They also say there is no such thing as 2manybikes. :)

First off, do not immediately jump to the conclusion that it is 'rider error' and exclaim 'You did it.' without supporing evidence.

Secondly, how'd he shift into the spokes with the spoke protector still on the bike? Certainly looks like a case of chain pin faults catching the derailleur. With less than 300mi on the bike, sure isn't much distance for something like that to happen out on the road. And not much time for the user to jack with the limits to be at fault.

My suggestion is to write out and detail everything done with and to the bike from date of purchase. If you can document the milage somehow prior to failure, all the better. With less than 300mi on the thing there's probably plenty of parts on the bike that will display very low milage. Document any work you had the shop do, and of course anything you did. If you worked on the bike, then I'd sure state how much experience you have working on derailleurs to support your ability to make such changes correctly.

User error. You shifted that baby into the spokes.

C.S.I. Jim says:

1. chain is on large cog indicationg a shift into the large cog.
2. lower pulley wheel is missing indicating a shift into the spokes
3. If you take a picture of the body of the derailleur from an angle showing the lettering I'll pretty much gaurantee it has scrap marks on it. Scrap marks indicate prior damage.
4. owner states "I was cranking up a hill' thus implicating himself in shifting into the spokes.

Sorry....

Wow, that is some horrible investigative work. First of all there is a dork disc on the bike so shifting into the spokes? I also see the pin which sticking out of the chain. That is likely the source of the problem although that picture is nowhere near enough evidence to conclude.

TREK COMES THROUGH!!!

Trek is going to supply a new frame, and I'm going to pay for the other parts, and the installation. Quite frankly, I think that they are being perfectly fair, and have to say I'm pleased with this resolution! Thanks again for helping me look at this with an unbiased view.

TREK COMES THROUGH!!!

Trek is going to supply a new frame, and I'm going to pay for the other parts, and the installation. Quite frankly, I think that they are being perfectly fair, and have to say I'm pleased with this resolution! Thanks again for helping me look at this with an unbiased view.

I am very happy for you.

Now, consider selling the bike and getting yourself something made of steel. In the long run, you'll be a happy man.

TREK COMES THROUGH!!!

Trek is going to supply a new frame, and I'm going to pay for the other parts, and the installation. Quite frankly, I think that they are being perfectly fair, and have to say I'm pleased with this resolution! Thanks again for helping me look at this with an unbiased view.


Good for you. Nobody here knows whose "fault" this was but it certainly is good to see Trek stand behind their warranty. It is reassuring when you are plopping down big money on a bike to know that the manufacturer will likely back you up if things go South.

Wow, that is some horrible investigative work. First of all there is a dork disc on the bike so shifting into the spokes? I also see the pin which sticking out of the chain. That is likely the source of the problem although that picture is nowhere near enough evidence to conclude.


I'll throw you a big 'W' to you on this one. I've been around enough and have seen enough to know what happened.

I'm very curious as to how something else happened.....

I'm very curious as to how something else happened.....

Was it how I got a ride home from a cute girl?

Couldn't have said it better or more clearly...

In short, there is no insurance for stupidity...

So, since you couldn't have said it better, you decided it best to just insult the OP.

Caruso

So, since you couldn't have said it better, you decided it best to just insult the OP.


Couldn't have said it better or more clearly... :D

By the way, the OP is really a nice guy, and definitely NOT stupid.

To the OP: Congrats on Trek standing up for you. I don't know whether the damage was actually your fault, Trek's, your LBS's or all of the above, but overall, I think you came out smelling like a rose. If you like the carbon ride, keep with it. Carbon isn't as durable as steel (most nothing else is), but how many times do you expect to have a catastrophic failure like this?

I, personally, am wary of narrow chains (think 9 or 10 speed models) and of ALL Shimano chains. I like Wiperman chains and am particularly fond of their stainless steel ones. I prefer to spend some $$ upgrading my chains so that I don't have to worry about chain failure. I can't say that what I do is a surefire prophylactic, but I've never (yet) had a chain failure.

Glad to hear you weren't seriously injured & I hope you got the cute girl's #!

I like Wiperman chains and am particularly fond of their stainless steel ones. I prefer to spend some $$ upgrading my chains so that I don't have to worry about chain failure. I can't say that what I do is a surefire prophylactic, but I've never (yet) had a chain failure.

Glad to hear you weren't seriously injured & I hope you got the cute girl's #!

Thanks for the chain info, I'll look into that upgrade...this issue seems to be pretty rare. The chains for the ten speed are a little thinner, and I was a little concern when I bought this. But it's nice going fron 6 to 10. You're rarely looking for the gear in between. The 20+ year old cromoly frame has served me well, and a felt it was time to retire it. The new Trek is a bit faster up the hills!