I'm writing the following post as an incentive for those car-light folks like myself who haven't yet made the jump to being carfree. Last month I spent over $500 on car repairs and today it's going to cost me over $1000 to get the engine fixed. Of course, within a couple more months I'll be dropping another $1000 for another year of insurance. :mad:

Now I know you carfree folks reading this are probably thinking that it serves me right for owning a car, and to a large extent you are right. I commute by bike to work every day and just officially survived my first year of commuting through a Canadian prairie winter. I'd love to sell the car and be rid of the damn thing, but my girlfriend is not as close to work and since public transportation is deplorable here, she uses the car.

I realize that those of you who are carfree are living testament to the contrary, but due to the way cities are sprawled out, I believe carfree living is difficult for the majority of people. Personally, I think it's an absolutely assinine way to build cities and wish there was an alternative so that more people could get around without using a car. Vehicles cost too much in proportion to their usefulness, not only in monetary terms but also in environmental and social costs.

As a cyclist, I sometimes feel like a small mammal darting among lumbering dinosaurs. I'm waiting for the proverbial asteroid (peak oil?) to come along and assist the evolution of transportation. Hats off to all the carfree people. Hopefully someday I'll be carfree as well, hopefully by choice but perhaps not.

I just wonder if your girlfriend has ever actually tried to take public transit to work? It might not be as deplorable as you think.

A lot of people have told me they had no way to get somewhere when their car was out of commission, and they knew absolutely nothing about the bus system.

I serves you right for not doing your own repairs. You'll may get nailed just as well on a bike if you don't do your own repairs... It's a DIY'er's world. :D

I'm with you on recent car repairs. The transmission dropped out in the family van last week. $3000 later I'm thinking, "I could've bought 3 or 4 good bikes for that!" We use it on long trips to see our parents, as a grocery getter and to ferry my son back and forth to preschool.

-Jason
Car-lite in asheville

I'm with you on recent car repairs. The transmission dropped out in the family van last week. $3000 later I'm thinking, "I could've bought 3 or 4 good bikes for that!" We use it on long trips to see our parents, as a grocery getter and to ferry my son back and forth to preschool.

-Jason
Car-lite in asheville
I get groceries and ferry kids to pre and not so pre school by bike all the time in all weather, so $3000.00 would also cover many van rentals for the long trips right?

From a financial and practical standpoint Car Light is admirable and logical, especially if the car is paid for, in good shape, and older (reducing insurance). Nothing wrong with reducing your insurance and parking it except when necessary for an occasional Home Depot run or road trip.

I just wonder if your girlfriend has ever actually tried to take public transit to work? It might not be as deplorable as you think.

A lot of people have told me they had no way to get somewhere when their car was out of commission, and they knew absolutely nothing about the bus system.
Yeah, half the battle is just learning when, where, and how to use the public transit system. It's like learning to get around by car all over again. Forget everything you know about freeways, traffic, parking, and conventional motorways in general. You need to think of bus and train lines as a whole separate road system. All conventional roads not used by buses might as well not even exist (unless you can take a bike, then you can consider conventional roadways again except for freeways). Places where you previously couldn't travel due to lack of a road may suddenly become the best way to go and vice versa.

One big difference is that public transit maps are generally very bad and difficult to obtain while road maps are generally very good and have wide availability. I don't know how poor folks manage to navigate public transit without the internet.

I find the most difficult part the fact that most people won't be able to give you directions if you aren't traveling by car. For example, ask your doctor's office for directions via public transit and they'll probably tell you they don't know. Imagine if they told you they didn't know how to give you directions if you were traveling by car? :eek:

I realize that those of you who are carfree are living testament to the contrary, but due to the way cities are sprawled out, I believe carfree living is difficult for the majority of people. Personally, I think it's an absolutely assinine way to build cities and wish there was an alternative so that more people could get around without using a car.

Most people could rather easily move their residence closer to their employment, or their employment closer to their residence. Most simply choose not to.

Most could also move to a location with adequate public transit, but that's an entirely different rant.

My point is, that the majority of people who talk about why they HAVE to drive have absolutely no intentions of ever transporting themselves any other way.

Most people could rather easily move their residence closer to their employment, or their employment closer to their residence. Most simply choose not to.

Most could also move to a location with adequate public transit, but that's an entirely different rant.

You must belong to same club as Ziemas. With the real low down:rolleyes: on how easy:rolleyes: all these issues can be handled by "most people". Newsflash: "most people" are not like you. Or are you using the phrase "most people" to refer only to a handful of people who are car free and are members of this list?

No, I stand firmly behind my statement. What part of it are you questioning?

Do you think most people couldn't find a job closer to their home?

Do you think most people couldn't find a home closer to their job?

Do you think most people couldn't move to a town with better public transit?


I understand that "most people" will tell you how they absolutely have to live in the suburbs because they absolutely have to have X acres and X square footage, etc. That doesn't make it so. If they WANTED to live somewhere else they most certainly would.

I'm 61 yrs young now and can tell you that in the 1950 when
I was boy it was the norm to be car light with one (maybe)
car. all your shopping needs were meet via catalogs or
stores close by.

Then came the 1960's & 1970's when the car culture and
suburbia came into their own. Small town stores died by
the millions all across america thanks to the 2 car family.

We now live in one of those small towns that has a dead
center where business used to be. Most folk's in my town
now undestand why you MUST shop close by. That has
stopped the death of business but unless more american
get this message and buy a bicycle to use there is little
hope until the SHTF in 5>10 yrs.

I'm retired now and wish I could dump both my cars
but living in a rural area that is just not possible.
So I drive them VERY, VERY, little and bike as much
as I can when I shop local stores. I've done so
well as reducing car usage I buy ONE tank of
gas a month between them ONE TANK!!!!!!

Hi everyone, great posts so far.

Roody: My girlfriend has taken the bus to work occasionally, but it takes over an hour by bus. I can actually bike to her work faster than the bus will carry her. In fact, I can actually WALK to work in 50 minutes, while the bus would take me 45 minutes. How sad is that? She's also not as comfortable in traffic on a bike as I am, but with that being said, the route has a very high traffic volume with no alternate routes available. Even I fear for my safety riding that route. I'm not trying to make excuses, just explaining things.

lyeinyoureye: I maintain both the bike and the car on a regular basis. The repair in question is a blown head gasket. After doing some searching, apparently many thousands of others have had the same problem with GM vehicles. Serves me right for buying a domestic, if I ever have to buy another vehicle it will be an import next time (yes, I realize many "imports" are built in North America)

jamesdenver: Insurance here is run by the province. A vehicle registered for "Pleasure" is cheaper but you can't drive it to work. You have to pay the insurance price as determined by the province, there is no way to shop around for cheaper or private insurance.

Once again, thanks for all the replies...

I know I'm going to sound like an ******* here, but I'll go ahead and say it since it is something I feel strongly about.
It is not your responsibility to make sure your girlfriend can get to work an back every single day. She's an adult (or so I am assuming) and should be the one responsible for that. Now I can understand loaning a friend or girlfriend your car here and there, but for you to allow them to rely on your for that is, well, asenine, and you are allowing yourself to be taken advantage of. Maybe she's not doing it intentionally, but never the less, it is what seems like is going on in that situation.
If you are "the nice guy" and going to loan her your car, have her pay for the problems that occur during it's operation.
Me? I'm married, with children. But the whole time my wife and I were dating I never once would have let something like this happen. If she had money issues, I'd loan her some, and fully expect to be paid back.
Maybe I just read to much in your post but it ails me to see young men get taken advantage of by women just because they were raised with the beliefe that they should be "the nice guy" but in fact, turn out to be "the door mat".
Sorry if I have offended you.

I
I'd love to sell the car and be rid of the damn thing, but my girlfriend is not as close to work and since public transportation is deplorable here, she uses the car.

Maybe you should work on getting your actual mileage down. I'd recommend keeping a log of how much you use the car each week and how much you pedal. Keep commuting and then try to add other trips by bike. If you are not actually reducing your car mileage, maybe you'll have to think about where you are driving and why. For example, maybe you drive to a mall to do some shopping. Do you really need all this "stuff"?

Anyway, at a certain point, you should be able to say, "Hey, that car hasn't moved in a while... why am I paying insurance on it?" Well... hopefully... Anyway, I'm kind of in your situation and that's what I'm doing.

I'm gonna have to agree with pj7, as much of a jerk I'm gonna sound like, but doesn't your girlfriend have a car of her own that she can drive around? Or are you letting her use your car the majority of the time while you get shafted with the insurance, gas, and repairs? It really doesn't sound fair to me.

As for the bus thing, I would agree with you there. In Orange County, we have a fairly ok bus system, if by ok you mean that it gets you from Point A to Point B. How long it takes to get there is a different matter entirely, of course. I can get to my school in 90 minutes or so by bus. I can get to school 90 minutes or so by bicycle. That's when I decided that the bus was useless for me around here.

By car? It takes about 18 minutes when there is ZERO traffic, 30 minutes on a normal run, and up to 45 minutes in a traffic jam. So I can totally understand about crappy public transportation, dude.

As far as being car-lite is concerned, just look at it this way: how much would you be spending on gas, insurance, and repairs to your cars if you kept driving without replacing any of the errands using your bikes and two feet? I say it's still a good amount of money, looking at it from the perspective of a guy with a paid off, rarely used car and comparing it to the "average" expenditures posted up by AAA.

Maybe you should work on getting your actual mileage down. I'd recommend keeping a log of how much you use the car each week and how much you pedal. Keep commuting and then try to add other trips by bike. If you are not actually reducing your car mileage, maybe you'll have to think about where you are driving and why. For example, maybe you drive to a mall to do some shopping. Do you really need all this "stuff"?

Anyway, at a certain point, you should be able to say, "Hey, that car hasn't moved in a while... why am I paying insurance on it?" Well... hopefully... Anyway, I'm kind of in your situation and that's what I'm doing.

One other thing, and this applies to a lot of Car-lite people, is, if your only driving a little, talk to your car insurance broker, some companies have low mileage rates.

No, I stand firmly behind my statement. What part of it are you questioning?

Do you think most people couldn't find a job closer to their home?
Nope, my office is 43 miles from my house, there are NO jobs that pay anything close to what I make within a 35 mile radius of my current home. I don't consider myself "most" people, but with the way the current job market is many people don't have a choice they get the job where they can.

Do you think most people couldn't find a home closer to their job?
The cost of a new equivalent home closer to my office is double to quadruple what my current home is worth.

Do you think most people couldn't move to a town with better public transit?
Considering the current state of public transit your options are fairly limited. I suspect that less than 1/2 of the total US population lives with in range of decent public transit. And if your company choses to move you to another location or terminate you what are your choices?


I understand that "most people" will tell you how they absolutely have to live in the suburbs because they absolutely have to have X acres and X square footage, etc. That doesn't make it so. If they WANTED to live somewhere else they most certainly would.
I have moved with my jobs several times, never have I "demanded" or expected a certain sized lot or home. In fact my current home is under 1000sf. BTW it costs MONEY to move, pay deposits, etc. and for a what? A job that may or may not have any longevity. It sucks to have to move too often...I have done it too many times. And just to add fuel to the fire (http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/retail/2007-03-28-circuit-city-layoffs_N.htm)...could your job be next?

Aaron:)

Yeah, that's true. With the current job market, many people are thankful for getting something that pays just one red cent above minimum wage, anywhere within a 50 mile radius from their houses.

And much of the time, choosing a job close to where you live may not pay as much as a job located far from home. Choosing a home closer to work might increase your monthly mortgage payments. Or the area might be so expensive that you can only afford a studio apartment. Some people (like me) don't mind the second option and deal with it, but most people aren't willing to deal with either option I've just explained.

If AAA's stats are right, someone driving a honda civic can save $5k a year by not owning it. At current interest rates that translates to about an extra $75 000 of mortgage. Ergo, going car free allows some extra leeway in buying property.

If you are going from two cars to no cars, then you can tack on $150 000 in extra mortgage and still break even. Better if you realise that after 25 y you lose $150 000 in debt (+extra tax savings for americans), and after twenty five years of car ownership you've got a couple of twenty five year old cars with over a million miles on each :).

With the extra hundred and fifty grand at the end of the 25y period you can do things like send kids to college, buy a cottage, do whatever you like (maybe even buy a car :p). If you consider the savings, you may actually be able to afford a place a lot closer to work. I may not be in the US real estate market but I'm sure an extra hundred fifty g's buys something a little closer to downtown (OK maybe not in NYC or San Francisco - but in most markets),

pj7 and fat_bike_nut:

I can see how my original post may have come across as sounding like my girlfriend is taking advantage of me. Let me assure you this is not the case. She pays for the gas and any minor repairs. We split the insurance cost as well as any major repairs. I pay for rent, she pays for groceries and household items. While the car is actually under my name, it is cheaper for me to insure it since I have been driving longer and have earned more merits (more merits = cheaper insurance). We generally split expenses about 50/50. My girlfriend earns more than I do so one might say that I am the one getting the advantage.

Since I've increased my bike use, the car sat unused more and more. There's no point in her buying a second vehicle when I had a perfectly usable vehicle that had been paid off for years sitting in the driveway. And since my girlfriend will soon become my fiance and shortly after my wife, I don't feel taken advantage of in the least. Hope that clarifies things, no offense taken.

Gerv:

Good suggestion about the mileage. My girlfriend drives to work and back, stopping to pick up groceries on the way home if needed. We walk to local stores for most of our needs. And I can't say we have much "stuff". All the furniture in the apartment was taken from our parents' basements or bought at garage sales. Thank God my girlfriend does not consider shopping a hobby, she's a low maintenance kind of girl. We try to drive no more than needed.

Oh, ok, that makes sense then. Maybe you ought to keep the car, then, if your situation is as you say it is. Hey, at least there aren't two cars at your house, right? :)

pj7 and fat_bike_nut:

I can see how my original post may have come across as sounding like my girlfriend is taking advantage of me. Let me assure you this is not the case. She pays for the gas and any minor repairs. We split the insurance cost as well as any major repairs. I pay for rent, she pays for groceries and household items. While the car is actually under my name, it is cheaper for me to insure it since I have been driving longer and have earned more merits (more merits = cheaper insurance). We generally split expenses about 50/50. My girlfriend earns more than I do so one might say that I am the one getting the advantage.

Since I've increased my bike use, the car sat unused more and more. There's no point in her buying a second vehicle when I had a perfectly usable vehicle that had been paid off for years sitting in the driveway. And since my girlfriend will soon become my fiance and shortly after my wife, I don't feel taken advantage of in the least. Hope that clarifies things, no offense taken.

Gerv:

Good suggestion about the mileage. My girlfriend drives to work and back, stopping to pick up groceries on the way home if needed. We walk to local stores for most of our needs. And I can't say we have much "stuff". All the furniture in the apartment was taken from our parents' basements or bought at garage sales. Thank God my girlfriend does not consider shopping a hobby, she's a low maintenance kind of girl. We try to drive no more than needed.

Okay, I see now. Buddy, I wasn't calling you a puss or anyhting. It's just that this is something I feel strongly about and your post didn't provide this extra information. I'm guilty of making an assumption here and you cleared that up.

You must belong to same club as Ziemas.
Yes, we belong to the same club. The club is called the I'm Not A Dick Just For The Sake Of Being A Dick Club. Membership is closed to you.

I get groceries and ferry kids to pre and not so pre school by bike all the time in all weather, so $3000.00 would also cover many van rentals for the long trips right?

Indeed it would. The tranny fell out while we were almost 400 miles from home near my parents' house. The rental van was $450 for the week :eek:

So yes, $3000 = seven weekly van rentals. As for getting the wife out of the car, I have to get her on a bike first. She had a nasty crash back when she was 11 or so, and hasn't ridden since. We got set up here before I even thought about riding a bike anywhere, so preschool, work, groceries are in all different directions.

Nope, my office is 43 miles from my house, there are NO jobs that pay anything close to what I make within a 35 mile radius of my current home. I don't consider myself "most" people, but with the way the current job market is many people don't have a choice they get the job where they can.


The cost of a new equivalent home closer to my office is double to quadruple what my current home is worth.


I have moved with my jobs several times, never have I "demanded" or expected a certain sized lot or home. In fact my current home is under 1000sf. BTW it costs MONEY to move, pay deposits, etc. and for a what? A job that may or may not have any longevity. It sucks to have to move too often...I have done it too many times. And just to add fuel to the fire (http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/retail/2007-03-28-circuit-city-layoffs_N.htm)...could your job be next?

Aaron:)

Aaron, not to pick on you, but since you provided the examples, I will discuss.

Your first decision was to purchase a home 35 miles from any job you want to take. For me, that should be the end of the discussion. You've sealed your car-centric fate. My point is, that if you really didn't want to drive a car you would not live where you live - and I don't think you can deny that.

Yes, moving costs money and I'm not suggesting that you move with every job. On the contrary, my suggestion would be that you move to a central location and find jobs nearby. I expect tons of resistance and reasons why a person can't do that... the kids, my wife's job, home costs, etc - but the central fact is that people do not want to live this way. They want to choose their house/apartment/etc based on some other issue and have come to accept 20-30-60+ minute commutes.


Considering the current state of public transit your options are fairly limited. I suspect that less than 1/2 of the total US population lives with in range of decent public transit. And if your company choses to move you to another location or terminate you what are your choices?

My response: Then 1/2 of the total US population could either a) demand that transportation be built or b) move to a location that already has it. If your company "asks" you to move, you either make sure it's in an acceptable location, or you find another job.

Even in cities with great public transit, sometimes connections and office/home locations make it impractical. I used to take the bus to work and had two connections and it took me 1 hour. With our new rail service it takes 30 minutes. But the new rail service also cut some routes and made it inconvenient for those. Those routes were reinstated after the board realized what a pain the cuts had made the commute.

One reason why people should GO to transit meetings to lobby for service or additional bus frequency in their neighborhoods if they feel it's necessary.

Yesterday, a carpool to a bar a city away highlighted why my household still has one car. My girl and I picked up three friends at their house six miles away in our Scion box and drove across the bay from SF to Berkeley to a bar where our friend met us after walking from his house a few blocks away.

When we left, we got the friend to fit in my car's tiny trunk and brought him home, then drove the rest home back across the bay.

So I transported 5-6 drunk people at ~30mpg about 30 miles, pretty good considering when they're drunk, they aint that efficient on wheels or two legs! For transporting this many people, and transporting 2 TVs, helping friends move apartments, hauling bikes around, and driving my elderly folks around, having a fuel efficient econo-box makes sense.

Hi everyone, great posts so far.

jamesdenver: Insurance here is run by the province. A vehicle registered for "Pleasure" is cheaper but you can't drive it to work. You have to pay the insurance price as determined by the province, there is no way to shop around for cheaper or private insurance.

Once again, thanks for all the replies...

SmithW.. What province are you in? I'm in Ontario and unless I continue to keep car insurance even if I don't own a car and go to get insurance again they wanted $1,300 for six months. I've been driving since 1976; I've never had an accident or ticket. They said it was because I hadn't had insurance for over six months.. It's ridicules here. I used to pay around $120 a month for insurance for years then since 2000 it's gone insane.. I don't have and I don't want it. I'll drive my fixer-up (which i can repair myself) short distances but use my bike 99% of the time..I hate how the insurance companies have literately made me a criminal simply because I refuse to pay their "protection" money...give me the mafia any day..at least they're honest.. end of rant..

Yesterday, a carpool to a bar a city away highlighted why my household still has one car. My girl and I picked up three friends at their house six miles away in our Scion box and drove across the bay from SF to Berkeley to a bar where our friend met us after walking from his house a few blocks away.

When we left, we got the friend to fit in my car's tiny trunk and brought him home, then drove the rest home back across the bay.

So I transported 5-6 drunk people at ~30mpg about 30 miles, pretty good considering when they're drunk, they aint that efficient on wheels or two legs! For transporting this many people, and transporting 2 TVs, helping friends move apartments, hauling bikes around, and driving my elderly folks around, having a fuel efficient econo-box makes sense.

My wife owns a newer econobox of a car and it's amazing to see some of the loads she's able to carry in that car, but she's always had the ability to put 10 lbs worth of items in a space designed for 5 lbs. When we need to haul some heavy hitter loads, only then is when we use the SUV, which has only used about 10 to 12 gallons of fuel so far this year.

One big problem is political, in that the mass transit system is terribly underfunded and poorly designed in general. Not much we can do about that in practical terms, other than letting politicians know that public transit is an important consideration in the voting booth.

But when it comes to the bus "taking too long," you should consider this: Most people spend about 10 per cent to 25 percent of their disposable income on their vehicles. That means you probably work somewhere between 4 hours and 10 hours every week just to support your car habit. (The lower your income, the more hours you must toil for your vehicle.)

I work only 36 hours a week, but have a better standard of living than I would have if I worked 40 hours and donated money to a hunk of steel and plastic.

Work for yourself, not your car!

I work only 36 hours a week, but have a better standard of living than I would have if I worked 40 hours and donated money to a hunk of steel and plastic.

Work for yourself, not your car!

Wise words indeed. I could not agree more.

I love cars & vehicles for the technology not the lifestyle. They're only toys & tools.

A toaster lifestyle is more beneficial, heck a wii lifestyle will at least get you some exercise..!

Cheers.

lyeinyoureye: I maintain both the bike and the car on a regular basis. The repair in question is a blown head gasket.

Whoa, that's the perfect job for the DIY'er imo. Almost all labor. Unless you're unlucky, you won't need to fuss w/ the head, and even then, worst case scenario is not being able to mill it down, so you need to get a used one. Not to question your decisions, it's just that those are the most cost effective repairs for a DIY'er.

One big problem is political, in that the mass transit system is terribly underfunded and poorly designed in general. Not much we can do about that in practical terms, other than letting politicians know that public transit is an important consideration in the voting booth.

But when it comes to the bus "taking too long," you should consider this: Most people spend about 10 per cent to 25 percent of their disposable income on their vehicles. That means you probably work somewhere between 4 hours and 10 hours every week just to support your car habit. (The lower your income, the more hours you must toil for your vehicle.)

I work only 36 hours a week, but have a better standard of living than I would have if I worked 40 hours and donated money to a hunk of steel and plastic.

Work for yourself, not your car!

Many people do complain about how long transit takes, but that is because they think as a car driver, when your a driver, all you can -- or are supposed to do -- is drive, however look at people on the bus, some are on the phone, some are reading books or the paper, some are working, some are reading email on their crackberry, very few just sit there, so the time is used for other things as well. 25 minutes to catch up on your reading, is less time, then sitting in the car for 10 minutes in traffic.

Nope, my office is 43 miles from my house, there are NO jobs that pay anything close to what I make within a 35 mile radius of my current home. I don't consider myself "most" people, but with the way the current job market is many people don't have a choice they get the job where they can.


I'm assuming you don't bike that 90 mile roundtrip; what's you conservative driving time?

One big problem is political, in that the mass transit system is terribly underfunded and poorly designed in general. Not much we can do about that in practical terms, other than letting politicians know that public transit is an important consideration in the voting booth.

Public Transit won't be improved until the public is affected in a very large way by it. Like if gas prices went up so high that more people will demand better rail and bus lines to get them to work. They are out there, even though at the same time, they refuse to give up their cars or start bicycling everywhere. They think it's laughable to ride your bike any farther than 1-2 miles :rolleyes: I know they're out there because I have visited their forums--they figure that we're DOOMED if we can't get any oil for our cars, while at the same time decrying the War in Iraq for Oil (isn't hypocrisy grand? That's my biggest pet peeve out of all the pet peeves I have, by the way...HYPOCRISY) :mad: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :mad:

But when it comes to the bus "taking too long," you should consider this: Most people spend about 10 per cent to 25 percent of their disposable income on their vehicles. That means you probably work somewhere between 4 hours and 10 hours every week just to support your car habit. (The lower your income, the more hours you must toil for your vehicle.)

Hmm, let's see...my car commute to school takes on average 1 hour round-trip. So that's five hours every week. The bus and bicycle take 3 hours round-trip. That's 15 hours every week. So the added costs on the vehicle is 9 to 15 hours total. Sorry, Roody, it still sounds more efficient (or even just AS efficient) to take my car than the bus right now. Oh well, I still have to wait 'til summer to sell my car, because I have some classes to complete before I get my bachelor's degree.

I work only 36 hours a week, but have a better standard of living than I would have if I worked 40 hours and donated money to a hunk of steel and plastic.

Work for yourself, not your car!

That part in bold should be read by everybody who's working right now and not realizing what a money sink their cars are.

I'm assuming you don't bike that 90 mile roundtrip; what's you conservative driving time?

I only go to the office about once every 2 weeks it takes about an hour one way, but the commute time is starting to increase as traffic in my area builds. At one time I commuted daily:( Now I am back in the field so my commute is to my jobsite location at the beginning of the week, then back and forth from the motel to the jobsites.:o I hope to be out of this job in the next 3-5 years and into something more enjoyable and it WILL BE cycle commutable.

Aaron:)

I only go to the office about once every 2 weeks it takes about an hour one way, but the commute time is starting to increase as traffic in my area builds. At one time I commuted daily:( Now I am back in the field so my commute is to my jobsite location at the beginning of the week, then back and forth from the motel to the jobsites.:o I hope to be out of this job in the next 3-5 years and into something more enjoyable and it WILL BE cycle commutable.

Aaron:)

Whew. I thought for a moment you might be flushing the equivalent of an entire workday's time down the toilet sitting in traffic. Long car commutes is a behavior I've never been able to understand. I had a friend--when I was much younger--who drove a seventy mile (roundtrip) commute six days a week for little more than minimum wage! This is insane behavior, but from talking to coworkers this is more common in my region than one suspect. It would truly take a unique combination of circumstances to get me to live that far from work.

Personally, in your situation, I would bike the fifty miles if it were only once a week or so; before my daughter went in the hospital almost a year ago I would ride the local rail-to-trails project the entire eighty miles at least once a week. But for myself, riding is a pleasure not a chore.

At the root of the problem is the fact that people just don't want to "pull up the roots" and get closer to work. Just as people have too much emotion, money, and time tied up in their vehicle the same can be said for their home. Furthermore, people are creatures of habit, and change is seldom comfortable. It is easy for me preach given that my family home of nearly eighteen years has always been within easy reach of my workplace, but I believe that if one isn't close enough to bike to work then they should move.

landluger,
The route to and from my office is doable by bicycle but it would be 3 hours one way due to the terrain and having to actually route out a bit further to miss a limited access highway. Also on most trips to the office I am hauling large amounts of equipment. I have had jobs that were cycle commutable and miss some of them. The best I had was at a large hospital, but the politics of the place got to me, and my wife at the time got a much better job offer at another location. I think each person's situation is unique and you have to make your choices and live with them. I spent my entire youth on the move. We moved on average every 2-3 years from the time I was 3 until I was 16. First because my dad was military then because he was teaching at Jr Colleges on two year non renewing contracts. In some ways it was great in that we got to experience life all over the country, in others it sucked because we never got to put down roots. I have no problem with living closer to work, but the cost of housing in the area of my office is outrageous and I don't particularly like living under HOA's. I believe that it was JeffS that pointed out the amount that could be saved and applied towards a mortage, however you stand a chance to lose every bit of that and more if you are forced to move due to a job relocation or company shut down. In this day and age very, very few companies take care of their employees any more. I hold up Circuit City as an example. As yet another example, the McD's in our small town has closed down and been bulldozed for renovation, all grand and good, however the if the employees want to work they have to take a temporary transfer to another location in the same system, leading to commutes ranging from 15-60 miles. Until society as a whole gives up on the whole car culture phenomenon and we can rebuild the neighborhood/small town structure we are going to struggle making car free work for the bulk of the populace. The days are gone where you worked for the same company from the first day to retirement. The company owners are closing plants and operations at will, and relocating them to lower wages states, or eliminating whole divisions and moving things off shore. Rubbermaid, Phillips Electronics, Briggs and Stratton, Schwinn, Raleigh, Westinghouse, West Bend, Hamilton Beach, Black and Decker...and the list goes on and on. All of these at one time were good companies to work for and you could expect to work for them for life and retire. I actually worked for B&D right out of high school for a whole summer as a fork lift driver, at the time the plant employed 2500 workers, that plant sits shuttered now with weeds growing up through the cracks in the parking lots, with the bulk of the jobs that used to be there moved to Reyosa, Mexico and China. And I know it is not the only one.

Aaron:)

Most people could rather easily move their residence closer to their employment, or their employment closer to their residence. Most simply choose not to.

Easier said than done, my friend.

I've been trying to work this arrangement for at least three years and actually get a job in my town. No dice. The next town over, only a six-mile ride, is the same way. THe only places hiring are the cities that are several miles over steep mountains.

However, I could get a job in Honolulu, but I can't afford to live there, job or not.

I'm sure it's worth mentioning at this point that I almost got hit nearly four times just yesterday trying to ride to the store. And I live in a fairly rural town! It's three times as bad in the city.

heywood:

I'm in Manitoba. From your post, it doesn't sound as though insurance is quite as bad here as it is in Ontario. I also have a good driving record but still have to pay about $100 a month for insurance. You'd think that as your vehicle got older, insurance costs would go down. Nope! The car is 10 years old and cost has only gone down approximately $100 over that time period.

Roody:

You raise some great points about public transportation. Yet as fat_bike_nut wrote, the majority of people don't give a damn about public transport at this time. In fact, I can get studies from the library dating from the late '50s on ways to improve public transport in Winnipeg. Every few years, they do another study (costing millions of course) but only superficial changes ever get made. Our current mayor once made a statement to the effect that "public transport is driving your car".:mad: Those who favour improvements to the system just don't have enough political leverage here at this point. However, I do remember taking the bus to university and remember how I enjoyed being able to read while travelling.

lyeinyoureye:

Unfortunately, I have neither the mechanical aptitude nor the tools to be able to fix the car myself. I'm getting better at fixing the bike though.

For all the forum members:

This thread as well as those on high-speed trains and a car-free US city has raised some questions about the feasibility of a car-free lifestyle for the majority of people. What changes do you think would be necessary for this to occur? Some ideas include the following:

A huge increase in the cost of gas
Higher density cities
Better public transportation
Pedestrian and cycle friendly infrastructure

Here's an example of how NOT to do things. I ran some errands this week and the place I needed to go was unfortunately located off a high-speed road with literally no sidewalks or safe bike routes. The area was completely designed for cars, all giant surface lots and big box retail stores. We try to shop at locally owned stores most of the time because it's easier (and safer) to get around in addition to being better for the community. But it's not always possible...

. . .I ran some errands this week and the place I needed to go was unfortunately located off a high-speed road with literally no sidewalks or safe bike routes. The area was completely designed for cars, all giant surface lots and big box retail stores. We try to shop at locally owned stores most of the time because it's easier (and safer) to get around in addition to being better for the community. But it's not always possible...

Sounds like a typical ride in my city; what's your point?

The biggest excuse by far that I get from non-transportational cyclists when I ask why they don't ride bikes to save energy is the JAMs that fill the roadways. Correct that problem and everything falls in place, but one might as well try to change human nature while your at it.

The area was completely designed for cars, all giant surface lots and big box retail stores. We try to shop at locally owned stores most of the time because it's easier (and safer) to get around in addition to being better for the community. But it's not always possible...
I have the same problem, but I notice that I now need to visit the big boxes less and less. I'm lucky (well, that might be stretching it...) in that the local Walmart/Sam's Club surrounded by bike trail and residential streets. There's even a bike rack.

The big problem for me is that normally you go to the big boxes and haul back a ton of "stuff". That's why they were designed only for cars. Their business model wouldn't work if everyone walked to the store. When I go on bike, I have to be very careful to get just what I need and no more.

Normally, most of the things I need at Walmart are obtained more easily at the local stores. Only thing is that Walmart is actually the closest hardware store. Although I will often prefer to make the extra half-mile to the not-so-local Ace Hardware.

Sounds like a typical ride in my city; what's your point?

The biggest excuse by far that I get from non-transportational cyclists when I ask why they don't ride bikes to save energy is the JAMs that fill the roadways. Correct that problem and everything falls in place, but one might as well try to change human nature while your at it.

Probably the same problem with mine, you take your life in your hands if you try to get to The Mall, whether on a bicycle or not, and all the big box stores in the same area. All the roads leading in are 6-8 lane 50-60 mph, filled with JAM's with little or no respect of vehicle law. And no respect for the laws of physics. The lanes are very narrow, and the edges trash filled. If you attempt to take the lane you will get flattened. You run the risk of getting hit even if you are driving a dually crewcab pickup. I think the roads in that immediate area have more wrecks per capita than any other roads in town. As a general rule I don't mind riding in heavy traffic if I am getting respect, but that doesn't happen on this area of roadways. We had a guy blow a redlight a while back and mow down 5 or 6 motorcyclists that were passing through the intersection. The guy actually pulled around a line of stopped cars to do it. Happens all to frequently for my tastes, so I avoid the area like the plague.

Aaron:)

a couple points to the people above who claim there is no good reason to have a car, ever.

just for the record:
- to begin, i work work from home, do not own my own car. before that i drove seldomly.
- my second job is 2 miles away. i bike, walk, and bus when its real crappy (this is WI)
- my third job is a business i run from home. i am required to mail packages daily, and am often seen biking with a rack full of LP record mailers. as much as i can, i avoid taking a car.

on to my points:
- my fiancee owns a car. on days when i need to ship records to distributors (upwards of over 450 records at a time) there is no way i could possibly get those to the post office any other way, than by car. whether it's my fiancees, or my dads. i have to do it one of those ways. 10x 40 lb boxes.
- last week one of my bunnies had a health emergency and had to be driven 15 miles to the nearest experienced emergency lagamorph treatment center within an hour of here. if my fiancee wouldnt have been home with her car, the bunny wouldve died.

sometimes a car is unfortunately necessary (with suburban sprawl that someone mentioned earlier.) get rid of my rabbits? get rid of your children... dissolve my business? quit your favorite hobby or your favorite job.

sometimes a car is unfortunately necessary (with suburban sprawl that someone mentioned earlier.) get rid of my rabbits? get rid of your children... dissolve my business? quit your favorite hobby or your favorite job.
Obviously all those considerations are secondary to those who believe ALL considerations are secondary to the avoidance of the stain of using a motorized vehicle.

To some posters here there is an easy answer. Quit your job, dump your girl, let the bunny die - Move - live in a dang hovel or rat infested slum, take whatever job you can get, dumpster dive for your possessions. You'll be free of the yoke of the evil motor car and THAT is what is important, eh?

a couple points to the people above who claim there is no good reason to have a car, ever.

just for the record:
- to begin, i work work from home, do not own my own car. before that i drove seldomly.
- my second job is 2 miles away. i bike, walk, and bus when its real crappy (this is WI)
- my third job is a business i run from home. i am required to mail packages daily, and am often seen biking with a rack full of LP record mailers. as much as i can, i avoid taking a car.

on to my points:
- my fiancee owns a car. on days when i need to ship records to distributors (upwards of over 450 records at a time) there is no way i could possibly get those to the post office any other way, than by car. whether it's my fiancees, or my dads. i have to do it one of those ways. 10x 40 lb boxes.
- last week one of my bunnies had a health emergency and had to be driven 15 miles to the nearest experienced emergency lagamorph treatment center within an hour of here. if my fiancee wouldnt have been home with her car, the bunny wouldve died.

sometimes a car is unfortunately necessary (with suburban sprawl that someone mentioned earlier.) get rid of my rabbits? get rid of your children... dissolve my business? quit your favorite hobby or your favorite job.

For the records, you should really talk to some of the courier companies, if your shipping a lot, some of them have pretty good discounts, as cheap if not cheaper then the post office, and they will pickup at your door at a scheduled time. I hear ya on the rabbit though, I have cats, realistically though, you could probably call a taxi, for those kinds of trips.

Obviously all those considerations are secondary to those who believe ALL considerations are secondary to the avoidance of the stain of using a motorized vehicle.

To some posters here there is an easy answer. Quit your job, dump your girl, let the bunny die - Move - live in a dang hovel or rat infested slum, take whatever job you can get, dumpster dive for your possessions. You'll be free of the yoke of the evil motor car and THAT is what is important, eh?
Have you finally slipped the surly bonds of reality?

Have you finally slipped the surly bonds of reality?
Nope. Just reading and commenting on what passes for advice by some of our thinkers on this list to individuals for making serious lifestyle/economic choices/priorities. Maybe you should actually read what is written without it first being run through the Roody-thought filter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Avoid_weasel_words

Obviously all those considerations are secondary to those who believe ALL considerations are secondary to the avoidance of the stain of using a motorized vehicle.

To some posters here there is an easy answer. Quit your job, dump your girl, let the bunny die - Move - live in a dang hovel or rat infested slum, take whatever job you can get, dumpster dive for your possessions. You'll be free of the yoke of the evil motor car and THAT is what is important, eh?

Pretty Much.