Foo - Witnesses to the pentagon crash.

Im doing some research now on witness reports, for a paper, and I am finding inconsistances with what a lot say.
For instance:
One man is like "it veered right before impact"...actually it is claimed to have directly impacted without turning a ways back.
Another one..."I saw it level with the ground" while another "I saw it head in at a very steep angle downward."
Yikes.

Im doing some research now on witness reports, for a paper, and I am finding inconsistances with what a lot say.
For instance:
One man is like "it veered right before impact"...actually it is claimed to have directly impacted without turning a ways back.
Another one..."I saw it level with the ground" while another "I saw it head in at a very steep angle downward."
Yikes.
Eyewitness testimony is often conflicting. I'm not surprised.:)

Im doing some research now on witness reports, for a paper, and I am finding inconsistances with what a lot say.
For instance:
One man is like "it veered right before impact"...actually it is claimed to have directly impacted without turning a ways back.
Another one..."I saw it level with the ground" while another "I saw it head in at a very steep angle downward."
Yikes.
Remember when we were talking about The lights seen over Arizona :)
Any time you have people telling their version of the story chances are you're going to find multiple versions. The fun part is trying to figure out what part of what they state is true and what part is distorted. Even funnier, chances are the people are not aware of the distortion because that's actually how it played out in their mind.

make sure you watch "loose change" and all the Michael Moore films before hand, that way you will get the MOST accurate information available. :)

The video-tape footage is the ultimate witness with no bias. You can also calculate the speed of the plane based upon its position and how much it moved between frames...

The video-tape footage is the ultimate witness with no bias. You can also calculate the speed of the plane based upon its position and how much it moved between frames...

Yeah, but the government edited the videos so that we would never know the truth! :eek:

Yeah, but the government edited the videos so that we would never know the truth! :eek:
Hehe:D

The video-tape footage is the ultimate witness with no bias. You can also calculate the speed of the plane based upon its position and how much it moved between frames...
Have parts of those been declassified finally?

You should post this on PnR so can get the most loopy speculation possible. Seriously, some of those guys are conspiracy scholars.

Eyewitness testimony is often conflicting. I'm not surprised.:)

Yes. Even for day-to-day events, there will be discrepancies in witness testimony. A spectacular event offers the opportunity for spectacular discrepancies.

Have parts of those been declassified finally?

The only thing I've ever seen is the series of still shots from the security camera. I suspect there's more somewhere. But of course, the American public can't handle the truth.

You should post this on PnR so can get the most loopy speculation possible. Seriously, some of those guys are conspiracy scholars.

As long as the discussion remains out of the realm of politics this thread can stay. But this is the only warning to keep it civil.

Im doing some research now on witness reports, for a paper, and I am finding inconsistances with what a lot say.
For instance:
One man is like "it veered right before impact"...actually it is claimed to have directly impacted without turning a ways back.
Another one..."I saw it level with the ground" while another "I saw it head in at a very steep angle downward."
Yikes.


if you check the ntsb report and the new flight simulation of the data from the flight recorders they released on the net awhile back with the official kean report you find one major issue, the plane most likely did not fly past the north side of the gas station that the kean report says it did, if so, then something is seriously wrong, the lightpoles allegedly knocked down never would have been hit, this is corroborated by testimony of 3 people at the gas station at the time as well as the data from the flight recorders

the line of sight from the gas station doesnt allow one a view of the impact point unless you walk to the edge of their property and up a small embankment next to the freeway interchange, so nobody there saw the actual impact, just a plane overhead then it disappears, then boom

The only thing I've ever seen is the series of still shots from the security camera. I suspect there's more somewhere. But of course, the American public can't handle the truth.
There are at least 5-7 cameras that had footage. There was a large list of buildings that were raided by the FBI and had cameras pulled because they could and did see everything.

if you check the ntsb report and the new flight simulation of the data from the flight recorders they released on the net awhile back with the official kean report you find one major issue, the plane most likely did not fly past the north side of the gas station that the kean report says it did, if so, then something is seriously wrong, the lightpoles allegedly knocked down never would have been hit, this is corroborated by testimony of 3 people at the gas station at the time as well as the data from the flight recorders

the line of sight from the gas station doesnt allow one a view of the impact point unless you walk to the edge of their property and up a small embankment next to the freeway interchange, so nobody there saw the actual impact, just a plane overhead then it disappears, then boom
how can something alledgedly be knocked down?

make sure you watch "loose change" and all the Michael Moore films before hand, that way you will get the MOST accurate information available. :)
Loose Change is a crock of S***
watch the video i believe is called Screw Loose Change, they point out the many many flaws of Loose Change. You should be able to find both on google video.

dunno, ask the guys on the kean commission, they put their names on it and published it

lots of things in that report either omit or dont even consider lots of the testimony given, typical whitewash investigation done mostly for show it appears

how many people here have actually read the kean report? or even know what it is?

how many people here followed the hearings and testimony?

anybody remember the jersey girls and what they did? or know their role?

just wondering

dunno, ask the guys on the kean commission, they put their names on it and published it

lots of things in that report either omit or dont even consider lots of the testimony given, typical whitewash investigation done mostly for show it appears

how many people here have actually read the kean report? or even know what it is?

how many people here followed the hearings and testimony?

anybody remember the jersey girls and what they did? or know their role?

just wondering

A video called Screw Loose Change is made out of the original Loose Change video but it points out all the flaws.

A video called Screw Loose Change is made out of the original Loose Change video but it points out all the flaws.

ive seen both, and you havent answered the questions above

and btw, there's video that points out the flaws in 'screw loose change' too LOL

ive seen both, and you havent answered the questions above

and btw, there's video that points out the flaws in 'screw loose change' too LOL
so it's suffice to say that both videos are wrong?


However, regardless of what happened - i think that it's suffice to say that all of the tragedy could have probably been avoided if the passengers and pilots were not complete idiots and did what several brave fellows did on the plane that crashed in PA

It is so easy to create a conspiracy becuase you only state evidence that supports your theory and leave out any info that goes against it, and with a good argument you will get some people to believe you. Also, Scre loose change is doing the exact opposite and only stating facts that conflict with what Loose change is stateing. Youd just have to watch both (which you said you did) and be reasonable and find a inbetween belief. Im sure someone else could create a video ripping apart screw loose change, and someone could make a video ripping apart that one. You just need to take in more than one persons side of a story before you make up you mind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IHgFwYeB-Y

start there, decent background, then ive got a whole bunch of books you can read, start with "the looming tower" by lawrence wright

It is so easy to create a conspiracy becuase you only state evidence that supports your theory and leave out any info that goes against it, and with a good argument you will get some people to believe you. Also, Scre loose change is doing the exact opposite and only stating facts that conflict with what Loose change is stateing. Youd just have to watch both (which you said you did) and be reasonable and find a inbetween belief. Im sure someone else could create a video ripping apart screw loose change, and someone could make a video ripping apart that one. You just need to take in more than one persons side of a story before you make up you mind.
Well, considering how many alleged facts are floating around it could be alledged that one could come up with 100 different versions of what happened.

Loose Change is a crock of S***
not sure you caught my sarcasm on that one :)

so it's suffice to say that both videos are wrong?


However, regardless of what happened - i think that it's suffice to say that all of the tragedy could have probably been avoided if the passengers and pilots were not complete idiots and did what several brave fellows did on the plane that crashed in PA

I'm not going to lie, it is probably pretty to call them idiots.
I. Typically in a hijacking the people are only held for ransom, not crashed into a building.
II. Who is to say the passengers knew what the passengers knew or were told. They could have been led on to believe it was for ransom and knew nothing of the other crashes.
III. Untill your in that situation, you have no right to judge how they reacted.
IV. You dont know how many terrorist were on the plane and what they were armed with or if there was a struggle or not.
V. Those "idiots" were fellow americans. Friends and Family. People.
VI. It also show you are highly inconsiderate and self centered for calling them idiots. They were victims of an attack on us, and will never have another chance. Plus, I'll bet there are people on these boards who are related to them.

It is so easy to create a conspiracy becuase you only state evidence that supports your theory and leave out any info that goes against it, and with a good argument you will get some people to believe you. Also, Scre loose change is doing the exact opposite and only stating facts that conflict with what Loose change is stateing. Youd just have to watch both (which you said you did) and be reasonable and find a inbetween belief. Im sure someone else could create a video ripping apart screw loose change, and someone could make a video ripping apart that one. You just need to take in more than one persons side of a story before you make up you mind.

by definition everything that day and even after that in the days that followed is a "conspiracy", the kean report is about a conspiracy, it is a conspiracy theory by definition, no way around it

as far as "loose change" and "screw loose change" and many of the articles in magazines like the one popular mechanics ran all make the same errors, present evidence and show where it came from, be able to reproduce it..........none of these have done this, neither loose change or screw loose change

even national geographic and PBS ran two separate but conflicting episodes about the twin towers, one years and years ago about its construction, then one 180 degrees opposite after 9/11, make up your own mind there LOL

Best way to handle all this is to start at the beginning and start collecting info, catalog it and go from there filling in holes along the way, you will find a very very sloppy and incomplete govt accounting and lots of unanswered questions. Not even the various depts of the govt agree on the end result, nor do like 3 major news agencies. Theyve all published conflicting info. The testimony in congress is public record. Many of the docs and video are public record. The kean report is of course free and public record.

However, regardless of what happened - i think that it's suffice to say that all of the tragedy could have probably been avoided if the passengers and pilots were not complete idiots and did what several brave fellows did on the plane that crashed in PA
Thats pretty low dude.

I don't think anyone could possibly imagine what it would be like to be in a situation like that. And especially when threatened with a bomb/guns/knives etc., they were probably scared sh^&less to do anything.

But none the less, you should probably show a little more respect to those people that did die on that plane.

And does it change anthing? I seriously dont understand what people think they are going to prove to a world by grasping at straws.

Well, considering how many alleged facts are floating around it could be alledged that one could come up with 100 different versions of what happened.

most people have treated it like a 30 minute sitcom they heard about second hand and never ever actually sat down and checked it out

I'd guess very very few people have spent any time on it at all, or even know who was on the kean commission even or have read their report.

considering the ramifications of 9/11 and actions taken and people that have died since then over it, it says alot that most people havent even checked it out

Thats pretty low dude.

I don't think anyone could possibly imagine what it would be like to be in a situation like that. And especially when threatened with a bomb/guns/knives etc., they were probably scared sh^&less to do anything.

But none the less, you should probably show a little more respect to those people that did die on that plane.


Well I'm sure he could have pulled a Rambo and fought off all the terrorist bare handed and then land the plane like he was ****ing Macgyver or something.

Thats pretty low dude.

I don't think anyone could possibly imagine what it would be like to be in a situation like that. And especially when threatened with a bomb/guns/knives etc., they were probably scared sh^&less to do anything.

But none the less, you should probably show a little more respect to those people that did die on that plane.
Ummm. I've been down the road many times over. And nowhere in there did i say i did not respect them. You can still care for peoples lives and still point out their mistakes. Failing to be able to react under pressure is something that affects most people and when those people's failure to respond to actions causes other people to needlessly die or causes a business to suffer losses they are called idiots. In the latter case they are often times fired or demoted also. No amount of dis-respecting. It's a fact of life.

If i had wanted to disrespect I would have used a more accurate term, such as "spineless coward" which more accurately describes people who are incapable of reacting under pressure or fear and do something for the greater good. Did I? No. Back off of your high horse :)

Back off of your high horse :)
Im afraid of horses. :D

Ummm. I've been down the road many times over. And nowhere in there did i say i did not respect them. You can still care for peoples lives and still point out their mistakes. Failing to be able to react under pressure is something that affects most people and when those people's failure to respond to actions causes other people to needlessly die or causes a business to suffer losses they are called idiots. In the latter case they are often times fired or demoted also. No amount of dis-respecting. It's a fact of life.

If i had wanted to disrespect I would have used a more accurate term, such as "spineless coward" which more accurately describes people who are incapable of reacting under pressure or fear and do something for the greater good. Did I? No. Back off of your high horse :)

lets say father is gunned down in a bank robbery, is he going to be a spineless coward and a idiot. Well actually I bet you would. Whereas he obvioulsy did not teach you well, the world doesn't revolve around you buddy. Have respect for others.

As long as the discussion remains out of the realm of politics this thread can stay. But this is the only warning to keep it civil.Does the Pentagon smell? :rolleyes:

You should post this on PnR so can get the most loopy speculation possible. Seriously, some of those guys are conspiracy scholars.



http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/index.html