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View Full Version : Captain & Stoker Trading Places - With a Twist


Scooter123
04-02-07, 01:54 PM
Hi Folks,

As a warning, everything I'm about to say here is skewed because I'm your basic male-tandem-captain-fairly-strong-rider, and I'm about to wander into the murky waters of discussing my less experienced but otherwise charming, attractive and intelligent wife who is not as strong a rider. She loves bicycling but does not ride as challenging rides or as far. I've been riding for over twenty-five years, and she picked it up seriously - again - about four years ago.

IMO we have made a lot of progress on our tandem over the last two years. However, on any long ride we'll have at least one disagreement over whether I'm communicating well enough (probably not) or am inadvertently wearing her out (probably). There will very likely also be at least one situation where I have to think quickly to avoid an accident and will get in trouble because I did not also explain what I had decided to do at the same time.

But that is material for another thread... More likely, several past threads. The good news is that we have made a lot of progress in that time and our disagreements seem more brief and fewer this year.

OK, here's the situation we're facing. We both have ridden on single recumbents in the past, and are considering getting a recumbent tandem to replace our current upright road tandem. We've gotten to the point of wanting to try a recumbent tandem to see how we like it, but we're not yet sold on the idea. We know a few couples in our area who have them, and they seem very comfortable and happy.

So now that we're taking this idea seriously, my wife dropped another idea into the mix: that with a recumbent tandem, she may be able to ride as captain some or all of the time.

We do our best to treat eachother as equals, and have been fairly successful at it. But I have some doubts regarding whether we can ride effectively with her as captain. I have read that it is important to have the stronger and more experienced rider at the controls, but how important is it? Would changing this be slightly more problematic, or a big mistake? And, would it be an even worse mistake not to take the idea seriously?

Before I get piled on over having control issues, I'd like to say in my defense that I am more comfortable riding in her car as a passenger than she is in mine. She has a tendency to want to drive from either seat. That may just mean that I'm not as good a driver, so I won't claim that it's 100% proof. There's also the TV remote control... I have to admit that I lost that battle years ago when we got our tivo. But we can joke about that.

In contrast I've been in a bad fall-over-sideways accident on my recumbent, and I'm very concerned that we'll be at greater risk with her having to steer our combined mass around. The distance to the ground from a recumbent is comparatively short. Will she be able to respond as effectively to an unbalancing force? And will she get worn out even sooner than she does as our stoker?

We can't test the waters by trading locations on our current tandem. Her legs are longer than mine, and our frame is designed for a captain with shorter legs. She has the idea that a recumbent tandem needs less body english to steer. I know that you can't stand up on a recumbent's pedals and move it around, so she may have a point. I'm not sure how it works with a recumbent tandem.

I will admit that there's a strong dose of "not sure I can adapt" in all of this as well. I started riding bicycles in my late teens and have never set it aside completely. It will be a major task to adapt mentally to letting someone else operate the controls. Before I consider trying to get my head around that commitment, I want to know how good an idea it is.

Has anyone here experimented with swapping captain & stoker roles, and what were the results?

--
Scooter in NC

stapfam
04-02-07, 02:48 PM
I rode as Captain for around a year with various stokers, but could not find one that could take my downhill speed offroad. Must have tried about 5 stokers and still no success. Then one day- just as our group was about to set off from my house- One of the occasional riders had a problem with his bike that could not be fixed quickly. He noticed that the Tandem was in the Garage all ready to go and offered to ride as stoker. He was marvellous. We seemed to be perfectly matched with only a few stumbles on that first ride due to a new Tandem rider. He did another couple of rides with me and he had an annoying problem. If I asked for some extra power to get over a rough bit of the trail, or over a step- then I got a lot of power that threw the Tandem off course. I did not know where it was going, except it was going to be painfull. I put him on as Pilot to show him what problems he was causing- and I do not know if it balanced out the Tandem or I am a rotten pilot- But I am now an accomplished Stoker.

cowtandemstoker
04-03-07, 07:26 AM
Are you insane? Do not relinquish control under any circumstances! I have no experience with this, but couldn't resist saying that, ha, ha!!

cminter
04-03-07, 02:42 PM
How about a recumbent trike?

zonatandem
04-03-07, 04:44 PM
Have ridden as pilot primarily, but do have a few hundred miles as stoker too.
Stoker has to put lots of trust/faith into the pilot.
Seems on a bent you'd have less of an issue of who's up front, as most bents have an adjustable boomtube for leg length for proper fit. Also in a panic stop situation stoker can also get feet down quickly on a bent. Perhaps you are insecure in giving up control?
Try to borrow/rent a bent tandem and see how it goes before you plunk down the $$!
And of course, as suggested above, a bent trike would solve any balancing issues, real or perceived.
Have fitted a couple 6'2" and 5'3" on a Co-Mo Periscope, and yes, they swap pilot/stoker position using a high stack heigth on steerer tube + an adjustable pilot stem.
Don't underestimate the strength/capabilities of a woman!

rjberner
04-03-07, 06:01 PM
Don't underestimate the strength/capabilities of a woman!

Brown-nose!

zonatandem
04-03-07, 09:44 PM
Ribener: Have seen more than one stoker working to bring the captain in after he over-extended hinself the first 2/3rds of a century!

Red Rider
04-04-07, 12:02 AM
Brown-nose!

Bite me. :mad:

NewbieIATandem
04-04-07, 05:41 AM
Though very inexperienced myself I would have to throw my own $.02 into the mix.

If the concern really is falling over, the trike idea takes that away.

Sounds like you are a bit more reluctant on giving up control. Nothing wrong with that at all. A problem lots of folks have. Referring back to your TIVO experience, "lost that battle", one key to remember with tandem teams, if it's a battle maybe you should take up the martial arts instead. Just because the prevailing wisdom is to have the "heavier" or "more experienced" or "stronger" rider as captain doesn't mean it has to be. I've found when my stoker is cooperating ;) I can hold the bike up at a stop just fine. If she begins to wiggle or lean, suddenly it becomes a strength issue. How many blind / handicapped stokers have a light, or "weak" captain?

I've offered my wife the chance to captain just to see if maybe we would be an even better team that way. She says no, she is perfectly content to stoke. She trusts me and has no desire to captain. I don't think it would bother me to be stoker other than the stoker's seat tube would be WAY overextended on our bike. For us it is about the shared experience. Would I possibly have some issues with being the stoker? Maybe, but heck are we riding for my ego or for our shared enjoyment?

Try finding a tandem rental (many recreational areas have them, ask around at your LBS) to take a test run even if it is on an upright. This will give you your first impression of being a stoker. Even if the bike doesn't fit exactly you are not looking for comfort, just first impressions. (also you might "test ride" a few bikes in that configuration if your LBS has some tandems available)

To butcher a perfectly good cliche, "There is no I in Tandem Team" (Try to ignore the fact there is no We there either...:D )

rjberner
04-04-07, 09:13 AM
Bite me. :mad:

Would if I could, honey. Forgive us male pigs for embracing the one thing that allows us to escape the insidious emasculation we have experienced since the ‘60’s - as women have taken our jobs, our money, our sanity, and our spirits, in the name of femdom.

That being said………..in jest, of course, some of my best friends are (were) women. Hell, even my beloved wife and stoker is a woman.

nemonis
04-05-07, 09:22 AM
Would if I could, honey. Forgive us male pigs for embracing the one thing that allows us to escape the insidious emasculation we have experienced since the ‘60’s - as women have taken our jobs, our money, our sanity, and our spirits, in the name of femdom.

That being said………..in jest, of course, some of my best friends are (were) women. Hell, even my beloved wife and stoker is a woman.

If your beloved wife was NOT a woman, I would be rather concerned. ;)

God bless!
Wayne J.

cat0020
04-05-07, 01:05 PM
With a Hase Pino, Captain sits behind the stoker:

http://generationsfutures.chez-alice.fr/velo/tand_hase_pino.jpg

http://www.pbwbikes.com/images/PINO800.JPG