Road Cycling - compact vs. sloping???

That's right: not compact vs. traditional, but compact vs. sloping. I've read that there's a difference between compact and sloping. Is that true? Or are people just saying compact is the same as WSD?

I think it's all about preference.

Doesnt the Specialized team in the Giro, use a compact frame designed? If so, I can't see that it would be bad to use. I just prefer the looks of a more traditional frame design.

http://www.specialized.com/

I'm not asking for opinions on these frames. I'm asking is there an actual difference between "compact" and "sloping"??? I've seen people refer to a frame, saying it is "sloping, not compact." So what's the difference between sloping and compact???

Compact frame and sloping top tube are one and the same. You can get compact frames which are very tight at the rear triangle, and others, such as the Giant touring model, which are quite generous. Its just the sloping TT thing.

Compact is not the same as WSD. WSD designs may be compact/sloping TT or trad, but they are proportionately shorter.

That's what I thought! They are one and the same thing.

My guess is that these are just two different marketing terms for the same thing.

Same thing.

"Sloping" is just a word to describe a top tube that's not horizontal. Mountain bikes, comfort bikes, most hybrids have sloping top tubes but they're not usually described as "compact gemoetry" because for these types of bikes it's standard.

"Standard" geometry in a road bike is the traditional horizontal top tube. So there was a need for a term to describe a road bike with a sloping top tube, and "compact geometry" is the one that surfaced.

RichC

It seems to me bikes like the Heron Touring or Rivendell Rambouillet (not sure of spelling) and Waterform 1900 are "standard" designs which use a TT with minimal slope to acheive a higher handle bar position and a more upright position. Otherwise, these 3 models would be a "standard" design.

Additionally, the Waterford site states the 1900 can be ordered with either sloping or horizantal TT.

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

When it comes to road bikes, "sloping" has been around for some time, especially for women's bikes.

I believe that "compact" came into play when companies had to promote a new gimmick, but didn't want to attach any femininity to the design.

Since Giant invented the term "Compact," I think it's reasonable to ask them exactly what the word means. And they say "compact road design is achieved by shortening the rear triangle and the seat tube and increasing the slope of the top tube to produce a frame that's lighter, stiffer with improved handling and acceleration than conventional frames."

The benefit they mentioned may or maynot be true (it's subjective), but I think this is true: All "Compact" road frames are slopping, but not all slopping frames are "Compact."

this is my opinion:

I believe that compact frames are frames, even in large sizes, has an angled toptube(like the Giant)..

Sloping frames are derived from the classic geometry but have smaller sizes to accomodate shorter riders. These frames are usually 47-49cm. The top tube has to be "sloped" to achieve a shorter stand over without shrinking the headtube too much. If it was horizontal(the toptube), this would mean that the headtube would be about 2-4cm in length to be able to accomodate 700c or 27" wheels. Can you inagine a Headtube that short? I don't think the frame will survive a crash..

To be able to preserve the classic geometry, smaller frames uses 650C instead of the 700C wheels, thus lower standover height.. While this is a good option, some short riders still prefer the 700C models, especially in races.

Here's a size chart below:

Some track bikes were produced with top tubes sloping in the opposite direction, to lower the head tube !!
The issue of too-short head-tubes is valid, but their fault is that they chew up headsets very quickly, not any particular frame weakness. Its is better for small frame users to ride small wheels, and in races there is no real disadvantage, or why would medium sized triathaletes chose them.

On a related issue - I'm shopping for a comfort bike and have 2 cadidates in mind - a Giant Sedona and a Trek Navigator 300. The Trek's top tube has a much greater slope and its wheelbase appears to be a shorter (than the Sedona) for a given size of rider. What difference will this make in the riding position/style? Will the bike handle different due to these changes? Can the same riding position be attained on either bike by adjusting the seat, stem, and handlebars?

I'm going test riding later today to determine what I can find out.

The best test is to see how they ride. By reputation, shorter bikes have more agile handling, but its isnt always so. There are several issues,like how you are positioned between the wheels, what the steering geometry is like, but you can't analyse them, just test-ride.
Your riding position should be what you want to ride, not how your bike likes to ride. If the distance form saddle to bars is too short and you ride too upright, you will soon feel frustrated on longer rides. You dont need to ride like a racer, but a medium position like many long-distance tourists use is fine.

Take a tape measure with you. Set the pedal-to-saddle position identically in both bikes (in height and layback), and measure the position to the bars.

Originally posted by MichaelW
Some track bikes were produced with top tubes sloping in the opposite direction, to lower the head tube !!
The issue of too-short head-tubes is valid, but their fault is that they chew up headsets very quickly, not any particular frame weakness. Its is better for small frame users to ride small wheels, and in races there is no real disadvantage, or why would medium sized triathaletes chose them.

The only disadvantage(if ever it is really a disadvantage) is the top speed of the bike if it used 650c wheels.. I believe in road racing, there are particular rules for bikes... I am not really familiar of the rules(just a thought). Do they allow 650c wheels?

Fopr UCI racing, wheels should have a diameter between 550 and 700mm, inc tyre. 650c is legal.

personally, i thought "sloping" only has to do with a sloping top tube, regardless of whether the frame is "compact."

i thought a compact frame had to do with the wheelbase rather than the top tube. (since by that reasoning, women's comfort bikes with a radically sloped top tube would have to be compact, which makes no sense.) my bike has a perfectly horizontal top tube but extremely short wheelbase (the back wheel almost touches the seat tube and there is some overlap between pedal and front wheel) i would consider this frame to be "compact."

Originally posted by shrimpx
(the back wheel almost touches the seat tube and there is some overlap between pedal and front wheel) i would consider this frame to be "compact."

This overlap shouldn't be there.. Your wheel(when you turn the handle bar) should clear the pedal (it may be ok if it hits your foot a little bit, but its a bit risky)... If this is so, I think you need a fork with more rake (a 47-49mm perhaps).

i think toe clip overlap is going to be unavoidable on most decent-handling small frames. once you get used to it, it's not really much of a big deal at all.

it's not like this:

http://www.oldskooltrack.com/files/images/overlap.gif

:) but there is a little bit of touching, mainly due to my large feet. i've never turned the front wheel to the point where they touch while pedaling. it hasn't been an issue.

Originally posted by shrimpx
it's not like this:

http://www.oldskooltrack.com/files/images/overlap.gif

:) but there is a little bit of touching, mainly due to my large feet. i've never turned the front wheel to the point where they touch while pedaling. it hasn't been an issue.

to be honest, that was what i pictured when you said there was a pedal-wheel overlap....