View Full Version : Critical Mass Mob Attacks Van
Blue Order
04-16-07, 11:30 PM
:lol:
M@ssh0les act like m@ssh0les, and then complain that people-- including reporters-- view them negatively?
:roflmao: What a bunch of m@ssh0les. :lol:
:lol:
M@ssh0les act like m@ssh0les, and then complain that people-- including reporters-- view them negatively?
:roflmao: What a bunch of m@ssh0les. :lol:
I thought you were above this type of comment, but I guess I was wrong....
:o
Blue Order
04-17-07, 12:46 AM
I thought you were above this type of comment, but I guess I was wrong....
:oI've no sympathy for people who make it a point to abuse their fellow man, and then complain when public attitude condemns them. Live by the sword, die by the sword, they say.
Did you read enough of the thread to get the real story? Sounds to me like you didn't....
Blue Order
04-17-07, 01:15 AM
Well, you're right I didn't read all of it. I read the original article, maybe a page or two of comments and this last page. My sense is that CM defenders are saying the article is biased against CM. I don't doubt that, but that's what happens when people delight in abusing their fellow citizens. Public opinion sours. If CM was a bunch of cyclists who were just out for a ride, and they weren't trying to create traffic jams on the weekend rush hour, and they weren't flouting the law, and they weren't violently abusing anybody who gets in their way, then it would of course be unjust to report with an anti-CM bias.
But when CM is deliberately doing all of the above, they should expect a soured public opinion, even from reporters. If you've noticed, there are a large number of dedicated CYCLISTS here who are utterly disgusted with CM, including cyclists who were originally a part of CM, so it's not just "anti-cyclists" who are fed up with CM.
Now, back to your point. I've only read a few pages. If I've missed something, my mistake, but that's the gist I got from what I've read.
EDIT: I should probably clarify that I wasn't referring derogatorily to the CM defenders here. I was referring to the CM jerks who attacked the van. Of course, if somebody here WAS involved in attacking the van, then yes, I was referring derogatorily to you.
And if CMers weren't involved, but think the attack was acceptable, then yes, I do lump you in with the jerks who did the actual attack.
For the rest of CM, you can't really be surprised at the negative perceptions created by anti-social behavior. If you don't like the negative perception of CM, you can work to transform CM, you can leave CM, or you can just accept that if you live by the sword, you die by the sword, and stop complaining about the supposed "injustice" of that. You've collectively worn out your welcome with your anti-social behavior, and nobody outside CM really cares if the report was biased against you.
Blue Order
04-17-07, 02:56 AM
How to Manufacture a Critical Mass Incident
1) Be certain to violate all traffic laws. This will help get the message across that bicycles are part of traffic.
2) If you observe any motorists violating traffic laws, be sure to take note of that for later use. Er, don't take note of your own violations.
3) If you happen to be on the same street as any hapless motorists, spring into action. If you've got black bandannas, now is the time to cover your face (if you haven't done so already)!
4) Swarm around the motorist, preventing the motorist from continuing on her way. Use whatever tactics will infuriate the motorist. Get off your bike. Do your nails. Do the Times crossword puzzle. Slowly unwrap a lollipop and start licking it. Use your imagination here, the sky's the limit!
5) Be sure to use whatever rude insults and gestures you think appropriate.
6) If the motorist hasn't decided to inch forward yet, it's time to get serious. Be passive-aggressive. DARE the motorist to hit you. If necessary, maneuver yourself into being hit.
7) Result! It Worked, you've been tapped. Well, you had to artfully fling yourself against the bumper, but you've been tapped!
8) Now it's time to escalate! THIS is what Critical Mass is all about! Swarm the driver. Begin to pound on her car. Teach her a lesson for DARING to drive her car! Teach her a lesson for DARING to have a home in the suburbs! Er, remember to keep that black bandanna on, it's what Critical Mass is all about!
9) Escalate! Escalate! Escalate! You're really outraged now, so SHOW it! Fling your bike through her window! After all, she did hit you, and that makes HER the aggressor! Your anger is righteous!
10) As the police arrive, shout one last curse before you leave. Don't press charges, it will mean having your "assault" subjected to the light of day! Instead, shout one last curse, shake one last defiant upraised finger, and ride off into the night.
11) The next day, express your shock and outrage at the biased media accounts of the incident. Be sure to point out that the driver was VIOLATING THE LAW!
Congratulations, you've just manufactured a Critical Mass incident.
EnigManiac
04-17-07, 07:10 AM
How to Manufacture a Critical Mass Incident
1) Be certain to violate all traffic laws. This will help get the message across that bicycles are part of traffic.
2) If you observe any motorists violating traffic laws, be sure to take note of that for later use. Er, don't take note of your own violations.
3) If you happen to be on the same street as any hapless motorists, spring into action. If you've got black bandannas, now is the time to cover your face (if you haven't done so already)!
4) Swarm around the motorist, preventing the motorist from continuing on her way. Use whatever tactics will infuriate the motorist. Get off your bike. Do your nails. Do the Times crossword puzzle. Slowly unwrap a lollipop and start licking it. Use your imagination here, the sky's the limit!
5) Be sure to use whatever rude insults and gestures you think appropriate.
6) If the motorist hasn't decided to inch forward yet, it's time to get serious. Be passive-aggressive. DARE the motorist to hit you. If necessary, maneuver yourself into being hit.
7) Result! It Worked, you've been tapped. Well, you had to artfully fling yourself against the bumper, but you've been tapped!
8) Now it's time to escalate! THIS is what Critical Mass is all about! Swarm the driver. Begin to pound on her car. Teach her a lesson for DARING to drive her car! Teach her a lesson for DARING to have a home in the suburbs! Er, remember to keep that black bandanna on, it's what Critical Mass is all about!
9) Escalate! Escalate! Escalate! You're really outraged now, so SHOW it! Fling your bike through her window! After all, she did hit you, and that makes HER the aggressor! Your anger is righteous!
10) As the police arrive, shout one last curse before you leave. Don't press charges, it will mean having your "assault" subjected to the light of day! Instead, shout one last curse, shake one last defiant upraised finger, and ride off into the night.
11) The next day, express your shock and outrage at the biased media accounts of the incident. Be sure to point out that the driver was VIOLATING THE LAW!
Congratulations, you've just manufactured a Critical Mass incident.
In my very limited experience with CM, I saw none of what you describe. Perhaps CM is conducted the way you illustrate elsewhere, but I suspect your...ahem...commentary may actually be a revelation of your bias without knowledge and intended only to be inflamatory.
Escalate, escalate, escalate, indeed.
Blue Order
04-17-07, 07:41 AM
:lol:
Cm reaps what it sows...
Well, you're right I didn't read all of it. I read the original article, maybe a page or two of comments and this last page. My sense is that CM defenders are saying the article is biased against CM. I don't doubt that, but that's what happens when people delight in abusing their fellow citizens. Public opinion sours. If CM was a bunch of cyclists who were just out for a ride, and they weren't trying to create traffic jams on the weekend rush hour, and they weren't flouting the law, and they weren't violently abusing anybody who gets in their way, then it would of course be unjust to report with an anti-CM bias.
But when CM is deliberately doing all of the above, they should expect a soured public opinion, even from reporters. If you've noticed, there are a large number of dedicated CYCLISTS here who are utterly disgusted with CM, including cyclists who were originally a part of CM, so it's not just "anti-cyclists" who are fed up with CM.
Now, back to your point. I've only read a few pages. If I've missed something, my mistake, but that's the gist I got from what I've read.
EDIT: I should probably clarify that I wasn't referring derogatorily to the CM defenders here. I was referring to the CM jerks who attacked the van. Of course, if somebody here WAS involved in attacking the van, then yes, I was referring derogatorily to you.
And if CMers weren't involved, but think the attack was acceptable, then yes, I do lump you in with the jerks who did the actual attack.
For the rest of CM, you can't really be surprised at the negative perceptions created by anti-social behavior. If you don't like the negative perception of CM, you can work to transform CM, you can leave CM, or you can just accept that if you live by the sword, you die by the sword, and stop complaining about the supposed "injustice" of that. You've collectively worn out your welcome with your anti-social behavior, and nobody outside CM really cares if the report was biased against you.
Don't you think the the motorist hitting a cyclist, possibly running over a bike, and failing to stop is both anti-social behavior and illegal, which triggered an escalation of hostilities all around? Keep in mind that I'm not necessarily defending the actions of the cyclists, but you do understand that the original article is all about generating sympathy for the motorist, who, IMO is totally underserving of any such sympathy.
Blue Order
04-17-07, 11:32 AM
Don't you think the the motorist hitting a cyclist, possibly running over a bike, and failing to stop is both anti-social behavior and illegal, which triggered an escalation of hostilities all around? Keep in mind that I'm not necessarily defending the actions of the cyclists, but you do understand that the original article is all about generating sympathy for the motorist, who, IMO is totally underserving of any such sympathy.Let's say for the sake of argument she deliberately hit a cyclist after losing her temper. Yes, I would call that anti-social behavior.
Now let's say that she accidentally hit a cyclist, due to the confusion of cyclists deliberately swarming about her with the intent of stopping her in her path. No, I don't think that's anti-social behavior. And *if* she was frightened by menacing behavior, I wouldn't even say her failure to stop is anti-social behavior.
Now let's say that she accidentally tapped a cyclist and didn't even know it. Again, not anti-social.
Now let's say that the cyclist deliberately got himself tapped so he could have his public display of righteous indignation. Again, not anti-social on the driver's part.
Which of those versions is "the truth"?
I really don't think the CMers are in any position whatsoever to talk about illegal behavior on the part of motorists. It just doesn't pass the laugh test.
maddyfish
04-18-07, 06:15 AM
I'm sorry... I am as pro cyclist as they come, but if I had been out with my family and was attacked in the manner described I would move through the cyclists with probably to much speed and injure or kill a few to get my family to safety. I may regret it afterward, but I would not let a bunch of *****wholes do that to my property or family.
Once the rear window was smashed in, the family was in mortal danger. Anything goes at that point. In that same situation I'd put the gas pedal down, and keep it there until the road was clear, then call the cops and turn myself in.
Just watched my local Fox network broadcast a short news report about a critical mass incident that occurred in San Fran. This did nothing but cast a bad light on the critical mass movement, which I fear may result in negative repercussions to our local critical mass ride as a result of something that happened thousands of miles away.
I would like to write an 'editorial' email to the station and/or local newspapers attempting to promote and highlight the benefits of the critical mass, but want to gather as much information as possible.
Please let us know if anyone has more information about this incident and if there are been any news coverage in your area. Also, let us know if you have how your local critical mass movement is conducted.
Regards,
Matt
Dchiefransom
04-29-07, 09:02 PM
The media is not going into depth on this. A simple Freedom of Information act public playing of the 911 calls, and the order they arrived in, would be a big indicator. A woman identified in the articles is quoted as saying she called the mini-van driver in as a hit and run a few minutes before the driver called in.
goaliedad30
04-29-07, 10:03 PM
Sorry, but the Critical Mass people were bozos on this one. They created a backup that stretched onto the freeway, and actually created some VERY dangerous traffic situations, on a busy Friday night. They did this by repeatedly VIOLATING traffic laws.
All this mob did was make it WORSE for cyclists in the city ....
Y'all can vent and proselytize, but this was dumb ... much better ways to make progress.
It's fox news... what did you expect? I may be a foreigner but everytime I see something on fox news, I just laugh at the sheer stupidity of it.
I've never seen anything from fox news that wasn't politically biased and intelligent at the same time.
Sorry, but the Critical Mass people were bozos on this one. They created a backup that stretched onto the freeway, and actually created some VERY dangerous traffic situations, on a busy Friday night. They did this by repeatedly VIOLATING traffic laws.
All this mob did was make it WORSE for cyclists in the city ....
Y'all can vent and proselytize, but this was dumb ... much better ways to make progress.
Thank you for the information, this is exactly what I want to know before going to bat for our local critical mass.
It's fox news... what did you expect? I may be a foreigner but everytime I see something on fox news, I just laugh at the sheer stupidity of it.
I've never seen anything from fox news that wasn't politically biased and intelligent at the same time.
Yes, of course I agree, but unfortunately in my area Fox news is taken for face value with no further question or investigation from the viewer.
I am trying to do the follow up investigation that most will not. I want to form an educated response to Fox news hoping something will come of it.
goaliedad30
04-29-07, 10:34 PM
Yes, of course I agree, but unfortunately in my area Fox news is taken for face value with no further question or investigation from the viewer.
I am trying to do the follow up investigation that most will not. I want to form an educated response to Fox news hoping something will come of it.
FWIW, the coverage in the local SF media (which is NOTORIOUSLY liberal) mirrors exactly the FOX coverage. This is NOT a case of "media-bias" at work, unfortunately.
EnigManiac
04-30-07, 12:06 AM
As one of the other members remarked about this subject: MOTOR TRAFFIC creates dangerous, unnecessary and illegal backups on commuting routes every day. Why isn't everyone lambasting those bozos? Every day there is a rolling demonstration FOR motor traffic; it's called rush hour(s), but no-one says a word about it. But have a bunch of cyclists cause a little inconvenience for an hour once a month and, boy oh boy, folks get upset. Folks need to get their priorities in order.
This has been fascinating to follow. Like I posted elsewhere, I feel a bit out of my element in forming an educated opinion since I have never participated in a CM ride. In fact, I had resolved to do so. But first...
It is still troublesome that while all the debate swirls in the cyclist community (or at least this forum) there has not been a release of the 911 calls, nor has the original "victim" stepped forward. So. We are debating in an endless and fruitless loop since neither "side" of this debate possesses the piece that finishes the puzzle. (By the by, a fruitless loop is quite different from a Fruit Loop. :D ) This is turning into "he said - she said" which will hardly resolve anything.
Insofar as media coverage goes, I heard the NPR radio spot on it, and they also interviewed Kate Whatshername with the San Fran Bike Coalition fairly extensively, as well as the driver. No other media outlet has done that. That's good, gray NPR for you. Or as individuals who have drank the Faux News Kool-Aid call it; "that d@mn liberal NPR". (How dare they try to fully educate you!) San Fran's "liberal" media or not...it could also be that the local CM ride has soured that media towards them over the years. In that case, the current incident may be a focal point of local dislike, no matter what order the events happened in. If that is true, then all I can say is that they should have shown better manners and been better citizens over the intervening years, and public support and the media would be with them now. One can seldom overstate the importance of manners. Years of bad manners may just mean that it doesn't matter, to the public, who actually "started it" in this case...and the local media will reflect that as well.
As far as my own local CM ride. I tried to find them. (San Antonio) The location they've chosen to post the ride info is a frakking MySpace account, which incidently I refuse to join to acquire the ride start point info. I'll not get a membership, free or not, in a website where teenagers labor for hours building towering monuments to themselves and their "faves" and what "bums them out". ;) Also, from what I gather, all of 10 riders show up.
There's a few of my opinions here.
slagjumper
05-01-07, 07:00 AM
Why don't we all pitch in and buy that family some bikes?
As one of the other members remarked about this subject: MOTOR TRAFFIC creates dangerous, unnecessary and illegal backups on commuting routes every day. Why isn't everyone lambasting those bozos? Every day there is a rolling demonstration FOR motor traffic; it's called rush hour(s), but no-one says a word about it. But have a bunch of cyclists cause a little inconvenience for an hour once a month and, boy oh boy, folks get upset. Folks need to get their priorities in order.
Try looking in a mirror when you say this!.
Critical Mass intends to cause traffic and disruption. People going home do not intend to cause disruption, it might be a byproduct of traffic. The intention behind the act is the key. It is a simple concept, but apparently too hard for the zealots to acknowledge.;)
Michael
This is just my oppinion but I think it may have been the soccer mom in a minivan provoking the assault in the first place.
Critical mass is the same type of social movement as strikers picketing in front of a company. I had to deal with one of these picket lines before. if you try to force your way through, they'll assault you.
I'm betting that's what soccer mom did. And now she's crying "victim".
lima_bean
05-01-07, 11:15 AM
Try looking in a mirror when you say this!.
Critical Mass intends to cause traffic and disruption. People going home do not intend to cause disruption, it might be a byproduct of traffic. The intention behind the act is the key. It is a simple concept, but apparently too hard for the zealots to acknowledge.;)
Well you make some interesting points that we could have discussed, but instead youd rather go off and make an insult and attack that completely derails any point you could have hoped to have made, so whatever, hope that works out for you.
BikeNinjagirl
05-02-07, 10:50 AM
Is there no Event Organizing firm out there that would like a feather in their cap for staging this event? I would think that with the ever growing Green attitude that holding an event of this caliber would really turn some heads -- hey merchandising = $$$$ and that $$$$ could go back into bike lanes etc... or is this just a total anarchy event that defies organization ? lots of good could be done here....i smell $$$$$
NinjaGirl
hmmmmmmmm..........you know the Warped Tour was super small when it started out.....and Alternative comic books have their own venue.....i bet lots of small vendors out there could use a booth for more exposure.....................whats that guys name Lucas Brunnell ?? i know i know....it sounds CORPORATE - but hey the bicycling community could sure use the $$$$$
shoot me if you want.....just trying to think of the positive. :o)
i think the t shirt should say :Green & Lean..................ok ok i'm done!
Keith99
05-02-07, 11:12 AM
Is there no Event Organizing firm out there that would like a feather in their cap for staging this event? I would think that with the ever growing Green attitude that holding an event of this caliber would really turn some heads -- hey merchandising = $$$$ and that $$$$ could go back into bike lanes etc... or is this just a total anarchy event that defies organization ? lots of good could be done here....i smell $$$$$
NinjaGirl
hmmmmmmmm..........you know the Warped Tour was super small when it started out.....and Alternative comic books have their own venue.....i bet lots of small vendors out there could use a booth for more exposure.....................whats that guys name Lucas Brunnell ?? i know i know....it sounds CORPORATE - but hey the bicycling community could sure use the $$$$$
shoot me if you want.....just trying to think of the positive. :o)
i think the t shirt should say :Green & Lean..................ok ok i'm done!
You are joking aren't you?
slowandsteady
05-02-07, 11:49 AM
This is just my oppinion but I think it may have been the soccer mom in a minivan provoking the assault in the first place.
Critical mass is the same type of social movement as strikers picketing in front of a company. I had to deal with one of these picket lines before. if you try to force your way through, they'll assault you.
I'm betting that's what soccer mom did. And now she's crying "victim".
People on strike don't have the right to assault people either. And this is not a social movement but rather a bunch of immature hooligans who like to draw attention to themselves while causing disruption and chaos. Sounds a lot like a temper tantrum to me. I don't tolerate it in three year olds, why should anyone tolerate it in so called adults?
scubajim49
05-02-07, 03:10 PM
Hear,hear brother!
scubajim49
05-02-07, 03:19 PM
I don't care if the motorist did do something wrong, that doesn't ma those CM jerkoffs have the right to attack, can't THEY call the cops? Also, remember those of us in Texas carry a gun and gun racks are leagal I may not want to damage my 72 Mustang Mach 1, but I will kill to protect my family and kids!!!!!!! You may want to think a lil bit! Also, what right could they have had to attack?
Mod Note: edited out personal insult
I don't care if the motorist did do something wrong, that doesn't ma those CM jerkoffs have the right to attack, can't THEY call the cops? Also, remember those of us in Texas carry a gun and gun racks are leagal I may not want to damage my 72 Mustang Mach 1, but I will kill to protect my family and kids!!!!!!! You may want to think a lil bit! Also, what right could they have had to attack?
didn't read past the first post, did you?
:rolleyes:
please try to remember to take your meds before sending internet death threats to non-violent cyclists
Dchiefransom
05-02-07, 08:00 PM
I don't care if the motorist did do something wrong, that doesn't ma those CM jerkoffs have the right to attack, can't THEY call the cops?
Mod Note: edited out personal insult
They DID call the cops. The cops, the Mayor, and the media have not done anything to show that a call went to 911 about a hit and run driver BEFORE the woman's mini-van was halted after more than a block by the cyclists beating on it. The reason they did that to her vehicle was to convince her to stop. I assume they didn't think she would run them over, just flee the scene of the initial accident. Follow-up articles say that the police refused to take a report unless the cyclist went to the hospital.
This occured in the same city where a guy driving a vehicle purposely ran down 18 pedestrians, after killing one in the city next to me. Today a vehicle ran up onto a sidewalk and struck students, putting a few in Stanford hospital.
Daily Commute
05-03-07, 06:50 PM
I don't care if the motorist did do something wrong, that doesn't ma those CM jerkoffs have the right to attack, can't THEY call the cops? Also, remember those of us in Texas carry a gun and gun racks are leagal I may not want to damage my 72 Mustang Mach 1, but I will kill to protect my family and kids!!!!!!! You may want to think a lil bit! Also, what right could they have had to attack?
Mod Note: edited out personal insult
We have conceal-carry laws in Ohio, too. Cyclists have as much right to carry as drivers. So your "don't mess with me I have a gun" bravado works both ways. I'm not taking a position on whether conceal-carry laws are good ideas, but your post is pretty much a parody of the stereotype northern liberals have of Texas gun toters.
Saintly Loser
05-04-07, 07:26 AM
We here on BikeForums at least know what Critical Mass allegedly is and what they allegedly represent. Can you imagine being a person who hasn't ridden a bike in twenty years and being instantly swarmed by thousands of riders? Do you think any of the Critical Mass riders turned to her as the van driver and said something along these lines,
"...Excuse me, ma'am. It appears that you've found yourself amidst our Critical Mass bicycle protest. Our goal is to bring attention to the plight of cyclists via civil disobedience. My name is Albert A. Aaardvark and I'm the local coordinator of this event. We'll help you move to the side so you can take an alternate road on which we're not riding....I would suggest 38th Street and make a left on Blaumann Avenue to get back to the highway..."
A voice of reason in this lengthy thread (approaching twenty pages at this point).
Yes, CM riders could have done that. And it would have been constructive. But they chose not to do that. No surprise there.
I haven't witnessed a CM ride in San Francisco. But I've seen plenty of them here in New York. I even participated in a couple, years back, but realised it wasn't anything I wanted to have anything to do with.
Mostly (at least here in NYC) it's a bunch of silly twits who get off feeling all victimized and oppressed so they can scream about the jackbooted foot of the fascist thugs on their throats.* It's all very silly. It's an adolescent mob mentality, which is really, really stupid, self-centered and, in the end, dangerous.
* Yes, I know the word "fascist" hasn't been used here. Yes, this is hyperbole.
vBulletin® v3.7.3, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.