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xrazer
04-04-07, 06:27 PM
I have lately been passed very close by drivers and have been wondering if I should persue saying something to them if I have a chance. Today for example a jacked up F-250 passed me very close while I was in the bike lane. Scared the #$#$ out of me and the wind almost blew me over. The truck accelerated fast passing me and then turned into a Home Depot parking lot into which I could have followed him to say something. But what? So far I have thought it to be a meaningless confrontation and a distraction to my own ride. Opinions?

Burrito Eater
04-04-07, 06:35 PM
I know I am going to get a lot of crap for saying this but if a driver pulls crap like that I will often say something if I have the chance. I have also been known to spit on cars. No physical violence or property damage though. I just want to make them aware that they acted like an idiot and put my life in danger. It helps that I am 6'4 225, and have tattoo sleeves. :D

deputyjones
04-04-07, 06:41 PM
It helps that I am 6'4 225, and have tattoo sleeves. :D

Yup, you pretty much better be if you are going to do that.

I vote no. If was so close it bothered me I might make it very conspicuous that I was writing down that persons license number (like following them into the parking lot) and calling the cops (even if I was just faking), but I think that is enough to make 99% of the "buzzers" think before doing it again. People are so INCREDIBLY defensive about their own driving habits that it is nearly impossible to have a real discussion with anyone based on an actual "on road" situation.

Dchiefransom
04-04-07, 06:42 PM
If someone is willing to put your life in danger once, why give them a second chance? The only time I would go say something to someone is if I was ready to do them serious bodily harm, or suffer it myself.

LandLuger
04-04-07, 06:43 PM
On bikes w/o an airhorn, I do a lot of screaming. In your case I usually yell out, "too close!" Seems to rattle some drivers because they often run the redlight when they see I'm going to catch them. They must think I'm one of those crazy, broke cyclists with nothing to lose:)

NoNaYet
04-04-07, 07:12 PM
I have to admit getting hot when I am buzzed, but I also agree you are probably asking for trouble.

I have only caught cars twice. Once a bunch of teenybopper girls honked and yelled at me when they passed and then got caught at a red light. I rode up beside them and asked nicely if they wanted to tell me something. They just mumbled something :-)

Another time a passenger threw a cup of ice at me (and missed) and then the car turned into my neighborhood. I sprinted in and caught them in the driveway. The heroes would not get out of their car until I left.

NNY

sbhikes
04-04-07, 07:42 PM
People are so INCREDIBLY defensive about their own driving habits that it is nearly impossible to have a real discussion with anyone based on an actual "on road" situation.

You ought to know!

deputyjones
04-04-07, 07:46 PM
You ought to know!

;)

RomSpaceKnight
04-04-07, 09:47 PM
I hugely militant and a bit of a road rager. I've punched cars, sworn at drivers, opened doors to scream back in passengers ear, walked across hoods and called police to report a dangerous driver. I got every right to be on the road.

genec
04-04-07, 10:58 PM
But what? So far I have thought it to be a meaningless confrontation and a distraction to my own ride. Opinions?

If you are going to do it, you have to take the high road. You cannot yell, you cannot curse, you have to confront the motorist, and present your side.

I do this on occasion, I rarely feel satisfaction, but I put the message out there. I carry wallet sized cards that outline the laws and rights of cyclists and I pass them out.

At worst I have been told where to stuff the cards and my "rights." At best I get a begrudging acknowledgment.

Sometimes I feel like I am trying to train motorists one at a time... sigh.

pj7
04-04-07, 11:10 PM
It helps that I am 6'4 225, and have tattoo sleeves. :D
Yeah, and the drivers are docile and defensless... erm, wait a minute.

SSP
04-05-07, 12:16 AM
I have lately been passed very close by drivers and have been wondering if I should persue saying something to them if I have a chance. Today for example a jacked up F-250 passed me very close while I was in the bike lane. Scared the #$#$ out of me and the wind almost blew me over. The truck accelerated fast passing me and then turned into a Home Depot parking lot into which I could have followed him to say something. But what? So far I have thought it to be a meaningless confrontation and a distraction to my own ride. Opinions?

Get a good mirror (e.g., the Take a Look (http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000&productId=48143943&parent_category_rn=4500871)). With it, you'll never be surprised by the presence of a vehicle.

Thanks to the mirror, I ride more assertively. If I see an overtaking vehicle that's not moving left, I'll move my bike left as they approach. This almost always forces them to adjust left too (even the *ssholes who are trying to scare you will move left a little bit). Then, as they get close I move back towards the right, ensuring maximum separation as they pass.

As for your scenario - I'd have followed the driver into the parking lot and given him a piece of my mind. I've had quite a few confrontations with motorists like that. I always start off being respectful, but very forceful, and letting them know in no uncertain terms that their actions were wrong and dangerous. Some drivers are apologetic, some are defensive. I really don't care, as long as I get my message across.

A few drivers will give you lip. Depending on how I'm feeling, I'll usually give it right back to them. So far, nothing physical, but there have been some mutual f*ck you's traded. FWIW, I normally carry pepper spray and a cell phone, but have not had to use either yet (knock on wood).

John Wilke
04-05-07, 07:01 AM
I'll yell at people, gesture at them, but I don't think I'd go out of my way to chase someone down unless the offense was extreme. There are folks out there that are more comfortable in prison than the real world and don't really care how they get there.

jw

sggoodri
04-05-07, 07:41 AM
Confronting drivers is very unlikely to make you feel better, and much more likely to make you feel worse.

If the police in your area have a road-rage hotline, get the plate number, vehicle description and driver description if you can, and call in the incident. The police in my area do follow up on these calls, at the very least contacting the driver by mail. Repeated complaints about the same driver get extra attention. The police here also respond to frequent complaints by tailoring their public education campaigns accordingly.

Whatever you do, don't let your frustration burn you up. Keep your bicycling time as happy as possible by concentrating on what you enjoy about it. Don't let a few drivers ruin a good thing. I sometimes make a deliberate attempt to stop dwelling on a bad driver experience by imagining what Jar-Jar binks might say: "How wuuude!" Dumb, but it makes me feel better so I enjoy the rest of the ride.

Pedal on!

bike2math
04-05-07, 07:50 AM
I'm waiting for the chance to ask someone, "I think Jesus would have changed lanes to pass me, don't you?"

But I haven't been buzzed in a long time (just neighborhood streets for most of my rides in recent memory).

genec
04-05-07, 07:59 AM
I'm waiting for the chance to ask someone, "I think Jesus would have changed lanes to pass me, don't you?"

But I haven't been buzzed in a long time (just neighborhood streets for most of my rides in recent memory).

Beautiful... I'll have to try to remember that one next time. Especially if they have a fish on their bumper. :D

Eli_Damon
04-05-07, 08:50 AM
I always wish I could catch up to these people and argue with them. I have caught up a few times and most of them ended badly. Recently, I was physically assaulted by a driver who I tried to talk to and the police did not even back me up. I should have taken the hint that he just wanted to yell at me and was not willing to really interact. So I warn you to be very cautious about confronting these people.

One time, a car passed passed me very closely right before a red light. I pulled up behind it, knocked on its rear windshield and yelled "Too Close!".This was pretty satisfying and did not lead to further conflict.

Bikepacker67
04-05-07, 08:51 AM
I follow azzholes into parking lots all the time.
And make sure they know I'm pissed off, and then proceed to 'hang around' their parked car while they run their errands.

I haven't cut off any valve stems yet, but I've contemplated it.

rando
04-05-07, 09:52 AM
not worth it, for me.

lima_bean
04-05-07, 09:59 AM
I want to say never, as I try to practice zen cycling, but last night did have a case where I wanted to. Riding in the bikelane, a car to my left, someone in an SUV accelerates very fast and veers into the biekland to try and squeeze between me and the car, causing the car to have to swerve quickly away, and comes within half an inch of me. Scared me so bad I yelled "****!!!!!!" just out of suprise and fear.


It was weird because they were racing to a stoplight just a few yards ahead. I decided to break my vow of silence and yell at this ******* at the stoplight, but to my surprise, they decided not to stop at a stoplight and head full speed into the intersection, a very busy 4 lane street. They caused several cars to slam on their brakes and oe to veer off the road, the SUV then hopped the median and made a left turn fishtailing as they turned.

Bikepacker67
04-05-07, 10:26 AM
I want to say never, as I try to practice zen cycling

I've always been of the mind that holding things in only leads to ulcers.
If you're pissed off because some jackhole nearly sideswipped you, you should vent and spew that stuff out, so it doesn't poison you from the inside.

Get mad, and then get over it.

fat_bike_nut
04-05-07, 10:35 AM
Well, all the times I've encounter a-hole motorists on the road, they've generally been in areas where the cars have the advantage of speed. I've never caught up to them. If I could, I sure would confront them, though, with a copy of the laws. If they respond by ignoring said laws, I'll copy their license plate numbers and call the police. Let's see if those idiots will dare question the laws when confronted by an enforcer :rolleyes:

deputyjones
04-05-07, 10:40 AM
Let's see if those idiots will dare question the laws when confronted by an enforcer :rolleyes:

lol, glad you added the sarcastic face :D

LittleBigMan
04-05-07, 10:58 AM
I vote to restrain youself when possible.

I'm basically a very sweet guy. But I have a weakness: road rage. If someone buzzes me when I'm on my bike, for some reason I really want to chase them and set them straight in no uncertain terms. I really have to work at not letting it spoil my ride.

It's better to err on the side of self-restraint. That way, you won't do anything you'll regret later.

But if I can call in their tag to someone who cares, I certainly will (if I get a chance to read it.) I did that with a transit authority courier vehicle who was harrassing me regularly. I called and reported it, but they couldn't do anything without the tag. When I finally got the tag number, they pulled the driver into the office and had a little chat.

That driver never bothered me again, and even drove the speed limit :eek: and I saw him several times after they corrected him.

But it helps to know the laws in your state. In my state, there's a fairly new law against "aggressive driving," which covers a lot of bad driving behavior. When I reported someone to the county police for harrassing me, the officer responded by saying, "But people do that kind of thing all the time." He didn't know that driver was violating the new law.

PDay
04-05-07, 12:13 PM
Unless you got a firearm, no.

Burrito Eater
04-05-07, 12:33 PM
Yeah, and the drivers are docile and defensless... erm, wait a minute.

I live in the middle of Long Beach, California where many drivers are most likely not defenseless, not even counting their cars. My first post made me seem like much more of e-hardass then I really am. I have to pick and choose my confrontations, I don't have a death wish.

fat_bike_nut
04-05-07, 01:53 PM
I've ridden from my house in Orange County into Long Beach before. The drivers there were mostly okay. Sure, there were maybe one or two buzzers, but for the most part, the drivers gave me enough space. I assumed it was because of the number of cyclists on the roads in the area I rode in (including old people on comfort bikes).

Bikepacker67
04-05-07, 02:22 PM
I live in the middle of Long Beach, California where many drivers are most likely not defenseless, not even counting their cars. My first post made me seem like much more of e-hardass then I really am. I have to pick and choose my confrontations, I don't have a death wish.

Ya.. OK, you certainly don't want to be dropping F-bombs, but I see nothing wrong with confronting (with reason) a driver.

"Hey buddy, you passed a little close back there, ya wanna watch it?"

I don't care if they get defensive. I just tell them the truth. How they deal with it is their problem.

pj7
04-05-07, 04:04 PM
I live in the middle of Long Beach, California where many drivers are most likely not defenseless, not even counting their cars. My first post made me seem like much more of e-hardass then I really am. I have to pick and choose my confrontations, I don't have a death wish.
I wasn't picking on you bud, just making a joke. :p

ChipSeal
04-09-07, 08:23 AM
What do you hope to accomplish when you confront the JAM? Get emotional satisfaction for yourself? Change the JAM's behavior? Make him hostile to all cyclists?

If you wish to educate and change attitudes and behavior, you must have a plan in mind long before the showdown on main street, or the emotion of the moment will carry you away.

I have a simple message to get across, and I am determined to keep my demeanor calm and friendly. (Even if I have to be a thespian whose performance would be worthy of an Oscar nomination!) My message is; "In Texas, bicycles have the same rights as cars, the same rules as cars, and the same roads as cars."

We are all ambassadors for our sport. How motorists view you, either with kindness or with hostility, will be influenced by MY behavior. Please be a good ambassador!

Tailwinds!

baiskeli
04-09-07, 08:26 AM
Yup, you pretty much better be if you are going to do that.

I vote no. If was so close it bothered me I might make it very conspicuous that I was writing down that persons license number (like following them into the parking lot) and calling the cops (even if I was just faking), but I think that is enough to make 99% of the "buzzers" think before doing it again. People are so INCREDIBLY defensive about their own driving habits that it is nearly impossible to have a real discussion with anyone based on an actual "on road" situation.
I'd say don't (though I have done it out of anger at the moment). Think about it, you would be confronting someone who has already self selected for hyper-aggressiveness, stupidity, bullying tendencies and a**holeness (if there is such a word). I'd take the safe route and take down their license plate.

genec
04-09-07, 10:18 AM
What do you hope to accomplish when you confront the JAM? Get emotional satisfaction for yourself? Change the JAM's behavior? Make him hostile to all cyclists?

If you wish to educate and change attitudes and behavior, you must have a plan in mind long before the showdown on main street, or the emotion of the moment will carry you away.

I have a simple message to get across, and I am determined to keep my demeanor calm and friendly. (Even if I have to be a thespian whose performance would be worthy of an Oscar nomination!) My message is; "In Texas, bicycles have the same rights as cars, the same rules as cars, and the same roads as cars."

We are all ambassadors for our sport. How motorists view you, either with kindness or with hostility, will be influenced by MY behavior. Please be a good ambassador!

Tailwinds!

I hope to educate, which is why my "plan" includes wallet sized cards that spell out the rights and rules for cyclists... so I can inform the motorist that indeed I do have a place on the road, and indeed I have every right to do what I just did. A yelling match just leaves two people mad. At least I try the education aspect.

banerjek
04-09-07, 11:09 AM
What do you hope to accomplish when you confront the JAM? Get emotional satisfaction for yourself? Change the JAM's behavior? Make him hostile to all cyclists?
I almost never respond to provocation. Every once in a very long while (certainly less than once a year), something inside me snaps and I'll try to hunt down the car to talk to the driver.

When I do this, I try to be calm. If I was intentionally buzzed, I just ask "I was just wondering -- why did you do that to me? What have I ever done to you to deserve that? Don't you know that you could cause a serious injury or worse?"

The few people I have talked to seemed very embarrassed. I think that stripping people of their anonymity is important, but that it's also important for them to recognize cyclists as people rather than things.

As a rule, though, I think it is unwise and unproductive to engage motorists. By not responding to provocation, you can often make a very good impression on anyone who witnessed the harassment. Coming off like a psycho is not good in the long run.

LittleBigMan
04-09-07, 11:16 AM
Once, I a lady passed me very closely. But very slowly. Somehow, it didn't make me feel much better.

When I got home, I told my wife. I said, "Honey, next time give me more room!"

True story, that. ;)

plodderslusk
04-09-07, 11:48 AM
I am rather scared of ending up in a fistfight with Look Keo-cleats and cycling shoes on my feet. Some of the obviously less intellectually gifted motorists who try to educate me with their vehicle would be only too happy to pick a fight with a skinny cyclist in said shoes.

Shiznaz
04-09-07, 12:14 PM
When I do this, I try to be calm. If I was intentionally buzzed, I just ask "I was just wondering -- why did you do that to me? What have I ever done to you to deserve that? Don't you know that you could cause a serious injury or worse?"


I try to be 'Zen', but the moment often overwhelms me and I lose my judgment. I have confronted or been confronted by quite a few motorists. These confrontations have always ended for the worse (although one time a lady apologized after she 'didn't see me'). I have never gained any satisfaction by doing this. I generally ride away angry, am sometimes harassed even more by the driver (spat on or have something thrown at me, buzzed, or squeezed to the curb) as I ride away. I then sulk all day about what I could have said or done.

I usually take the approach outlined above, but the driver always almost turns it around right away and says I'm not allowed on the road. I then explain the rules of the road, and they either contradict me and say I don't know what I am talking about, or they change gears and say I have no common sense, and I'm being a jerk, blocking them on purpose. When I explain what I am doing is for my safety, they give up and resort to insults and threats.

On the other hand, being 'Zen' sometimes just makes me feel like I'm letting a bully get away with something, but I don't usually sulk the whole day because of it. I have been confronted and assaulted in situations like this as well, despite being 'Zen'. I need to improve my self defense skills and let drivers know that if they exit their car I will take it as a direct physical threat, and incapacitate them out of self defence.

I am rather scared of ending up in a fistfight with Look Keo-cleats and cycling shoes on my feet. Some of the obviously less intellectually gifted motorists who try to educate me with their vehicle would be only too happy to pick a fight with a skinny cyclist in said shoes.

I had a guy trying to goad me into a fight this winter after I had done 160 kilometers in the cold, my legs were rubber, my back was killing me, and I was standing there with my look cleats on sidis while straddling my bike. He told me to get off the bike and fight him like a man. He REALLY wanted to fight me. I guess he was trying to prove something to his girlfriend by victimizing a tired and skinny cyclist in the cold? Low self esteem anyone?

flipped4bikes
04-09-07, 12:34 PM
Not. Unless you really, really, really, want to back up what you're fighting for. Never worth it. Defend yourself, yes. Spoil for a fight, no. I speak from personal experience...

MiRider
04-09-07, 12:37 PM
One person suggested calling 911 to report a "suspected drunk driver" who is driving erratically and endangering lives. After all, terrible driving is associated with being drunk - so maybe they are drunk. When the police hear drunk driving, they are much more likely to follow up than if they hear harassed cyclist.

bentstrider
04-09-07, 02:23 PM
If I'm buzzed, but not honked or screamed at, I generally do not care.
As for physical appearance, much of this nonsense happens at night when none of us are seen in great detail.
At night, I probably resemble a twig.
During the daylight though, my toned out chest and biceps are in full view, and I'm generally left alone and free to roam.
There have already been a few times where I threatened to hand an irate driver a beatdown, but they usually ignore my threat and drive off.
The rest of the time, I just try to remember what they were driving and hope I spot them when I'm in my company bigrig.
Roll up behind the unsuspecting four-wheeler and flip on the unmuffled Jakes thrity feet from behind.
Hearing those loud things and seeing a 40 ton deathwagon directly behind their vehicle will give them the ****-attack of a life-time.

fat_bike_nut
04-09-07, 03:57 PM
The rest of the time, I just try to remember what they were driving and hope I spot them when I'm in my company bigrig.
Roll up behind the unsuspecting four-wheeler and flip on the unmuffled Jakes thrity feet from behind.
Hearing those loud things and seeing a 40 ton deathwagon directly behind their vehicle will give them the ****-attack of a life-time.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I'd love to be able to do that to some of the JAM's I've encountered. Let's see how they react to having a bigger death mobile bearing down on them.

banerjek
04-09-07, 04:09 PM
...
Roll up behind the unsuspecting four-wheeler and flip on the unmuffled Jakes thrity feet from behind.
Hearing those loud things and seeing a 40 ton deathwagon directly behind their vehicle will give them the ****-attack of a life-time.
Doesn't work. Rigs occasionally do that to me when I'm on my bike. I just ignore it. If I were in a safety cage, I'd barely notice.

Helmet Head
04-09-07, 04:20 PM
I have lately been passed very close by drivers and have been wondering if I should persue saying something to them if I have a chance. Today for example a jacked up F-250 passed me very close while I was in the bike lane. Scared the #$#$ out of me and the wind almost blew me over. The truck accelerated fast passing me and then turned into a Home Depot parking lot into which I could have followed him to say something. But what? So far I have thought it to be a meaningless confrontation and a distraction to my own ride. Opinions? First, you should expect close passes when riding in a bike lane, expecially if you're near the stripe, much less on the stripe or encroaching into the adjacent lane in any way. Can you really blame a driver for driving within his lane, a lane to which you have no right? As long as he's not encroaching into your lane, what exactly are you complaining about?

Second, if you're approaching any place where a right turn is authorized, like an entrance to Home Depot, you are exempted from having to ride in the bike lane. See 21208. (a) (4) (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21208.htm). The reason that exception is in there is to allow bicyclists to properly position themselves to be outside of the "right turn space" prior to crossing the intersection (no matter how minor). If you stay in the bike lane, you're asking to be right hooked (http://www.bicyclesafe.com/).

SSP has good advice... use a mirror to monitor traffic to the mirror. It's helpful to know what's going on behind you to know where you should be riding laterally, which is an ever-changing proposition when cycling in traffic.

xrazer
04-09-07, 07:56 PM
First, you should expect close passes when riding in a bike lane, expecially if you're near the stripe, much less on the stripe or encroaching into the adjacent lane in any way. Can you really blame a driver for driving within his lane, a lane to which you have no right? As long as he's not encroaching into your lane, what exactly are you complaining about?

Second, if you're approaching any place where a right turn is authorized, like an entrance to Home Depot, you are exempted from having to ride in the bike lane. See 21208. (a) (4) (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21208.htm). The reason that exception is in there is to allow bicyclists to properly position themselves to be outside of the "right turn space" prior to crossing the intersection (no matter how minor). If you stay in the bike lane, you're asking to be right hooked (http://www.bicyclesafe.com/).

SSP has good advice... use a mirror to monitor traffic to the mirror. It's helpful to know what's going on behind you to know where you should be riding laterally, which is an ever-changing proposition when cycling in traffic.
What!?! Yes I can blame a driver going a couple of inches from me at a too HIGH SPEED in a LARGE vehicle even though he is in his lane and I am in the bike lane. HH, I don't really understand your agenda although I get the part of your thing of being a cyclist that claims his rights in traffic. Trust me I make myself visible and act within my rights.

I am also familiar with the vehicle codes etc and ride in the car lane when necessary. This incident was not in the front of a HD entrance but on a street leading to one. The bike lane there is very narrow as is the street. I had nowhere else to go and there is a sidewalk too meaning a bike can't escape to the right.

I have tried to use mirrors of various kinds. I can't get them to work for me, be glad they work for you!

genec
04-09-07, 09:39 PM
I have lately been passed very close by drivers and have been wondering if I should persue saying something to them if I have a chance. Today for example a jacked up F-250 passed me very close while I was in the bike lane. Scared the #$#$ out of me and the wind almost blew me over. The truck accelerated fast passing me and then turned into a Home Depot parking lot into which I could have followed him to say something. But what? So far I have thought it to be a meaningless confrontation and a distraction to my own ride. Opinions?

Just wondering what part of town exactly that this occured in?

pj7
04-09-07, 09:49 PM
What!?! Yes I can blame a driver going a couple of inches from me at a too HIGH SPEED in a LARGE vehicle even though he is in his lane and I am in the bike lane. HH, I don't really understand your agenda although I get the part of your thing of being a cyclist that claims his rights in traffic. Trust me I make myself visible and act within my rights.

I'm with you on this one, sounds like Helmet Head was trying to get a rise out of you... that or make some kind of point.
When I'm heading east on the MUP, which has a stripe in the middle of it, a pedestrian walking west and close to the center lane should not "expect" me to buzz by them within inches if I have plenty of room to my left to spare, that's just nonsense to say "expect" it to happen. Maybe "be aware that it could happen" would be a better term.
But his question about "can you blame the motorist" is just silly. Of course you can blame him for doing it. He might be legally within his lane, but the law does state that you should pass with "due caution" and "inches to spare" does not show "due caution". That's why the legal system has a phrase in it called "depraved indiference to human life".

bragi
04-09-07, 11:05 PM
I have lately been passed very close by drivers and have been wondering if I should persue saying something to them if I have a chance. Today for example a jacked up F-250 passed me very close while I was in the bike lane. Scared the #$#$ out of me and the wind almost blew me over. The truck accelerated fast passing me and then turned into a Home Depot parking lot into which I could have followed him to say something. But what? So far I have thought it to be a meaningless confrontation and a distraction to my own ride. Opinions?

I think it pays to be assertive, things like taking the lane, not backing down when drivers try to intimidate you, honking, etc. That way, they're not tempted to bully you. But confronting drivers after they've behaved badly is largely a waste of time. Drivers treat other drivers badly, too, they're usually not singling out bicycles for special abuse. Generally speaking, they're not after you, they're just jerks. And if you confront them, nothing positive will happen. For example, last weekend, a man honked at me for well over a minute, even though there was plenty of room to pass, and then when he did pass, missed me by only a few cm. He then slowed down, and pointed at the sidewalk, which enraged me. When I caught up with him at the next red light, I knocked on the driver's side window, flipped him off, and asked him to try doing that again. Then I noticed he was quite old, and sort of scared. I felt like a bully then, and backed off. Yes, he was an idiot, and really ignorant about laws regarding bicycles, but my response didn't help. It would have been better just to shrug it off and get on with my day.

xrazer
04-10-07, 09:46 AM
Just wondering what part of town exactly that this occured in?
I was going south on N. Marshall in El Cajon, a block before Arnele were HD is.

For what its worth most problems I have had with motorists have happened in various locations in El Cajon. Since I live in San Carlos/Del Cerro I have to go through El Cajon on my way to the eastern hills in Dehesa/Alpine etc. There seems to be a population of pickup drivers with a bad attitude towards cyclists in El Cajon. I have had no major problems in my area, Santee, La Mesa, Lakeside, further east or North County and the coast.

oscaregg
04-10-07, 10:05 AM
Wear neon. Quiet good taste is for stupid and/or suicidal cyclists.

Helmet Head
04-10-07, 12:44 PM
What!?! Yes I can blame a driver going a couple of inches from me at a too HIGH SPEED in a LARGE vehicle even though he is in his lane and I am in the bike lane. HH, I don't really understand your agenda although I get the part of your thing of being a cyclist that claims his rights in traffic. Trust me I make myself visible and act within my rights.

I am also familiar with the vehicle codes etc and ride in the car lane when necessary. This incident was not in the front of a HD entrance but on a street leading to one. The bike lane there is very narrow as is the street. I had nowhere else to go and there is a sidewalk too meaning a bike can't escape to the right.

I have tried to use mirrors of various kinds. I can't get them to work for me, be glad they work for you!
My "agenda" is to point out the obvious. Most drivers treat bike lane stripes like edge stripes (e.g., shoulder stripes, fog lines), and they often do not treat them any differently whether a cyclist is riding in that space or not. Like it or not, that's a fact of reality. I'm just saying that if you accept that fact, then you will come to expect close passes when riding in bike lanes, particularly when riding in narrow bike lanes near the stripe.

Blame each one individually if you want, but that won't change the fact that that is how driver's drive, and it is reasonable for them to do so. Sure, I change lanes when approaching a cyclist in a bike lane to not be in the lane adjacent to him when I pass him, but it's unrealistic to expect drivers to take that much notice of cyclists, particularly cyclists who are riding in bike lanes.

By the way, if the bike lane is of substandard width, you have no obligation to ride in it at all.

Helmet Head
04-10-07, 03:46 PM
I think it pays to be assertive, things like taking the lane, not backing down when drivers try to intimidate you, honking, etc. That way, they're not tempted to bully you. But confronting drivers after they've behaved badly is largely a waste of time. Drivers treat other drivers badly, too, they're usually not singling out bicycles for special abuse. Generally speaking, they're not after you, they're just jerks. And if you confront them, nothing positive will happen. For example, last weekend, a man honked at me for well over a minute, even though there was plenty of room to pass, and then when he did pass, missed me by only a few cm. He then slowed down, and pointed at the sidewalk, which enraged me. When I caught up with him at the next red light, I knocked on the driver's side window, flipped him off, and asked him to try doing that again. Then I noticed he was quite old, and sort of scared. I felt like a bully then, and backed off. Yes, he was an idiot, and really ignorant about laws regarding bicycles, but my response didn't help. It would have been better just to shrug it off and get on with my day.
A lot of people (the vast majority?) in our society believe it to be inherently dangerous to ride a bike in traffic, and that anyone who does must simply not realize how dangerous it is. These well-meaning good samaritans take it upon themselves to do us the service of informing us about how dangerous it really is. There is no better response than a wave and smile, except maybe blowing them a kiss. A positive response is baffling, disarming, and is probably the best chance of getting them to rethink their assumptions.