Confront drivers or not

[MNBikeguy]

I've encountered many otherwise decent people who are ignorant of road laws who must think we belong on the sidewalk. I've been challenged to "get off the road" more than once. I calmly tell them to go home, get online, and look up cyclists' rights on the roadway. That said, I think it's just plain stupid to impede traffic unnessicarily which I've also seen my share of. I also think hostile confrontations, while they may make us feel better, are largely ineffective and dangerous.

[xrazer]

My "agenda" is to point out the obvious. Most drivers treat bike lane stripes like edge stripes (e.g., shoulder stripes, fog lines), and they often do not treat them any differently whether a cyclist is riding in that space or not.
I disagree. Luckily for cyclists most drivers appear to give the bike lane a bit more room if there is a bike there. That is especially true in areas where drivers are used to bike presence. True, some drivers drive as you describe and that is the problem, IMO.

Like it or not, that's a fact of reality. I'm just saying that if you accept that fact, then you will come to expect close passes when riding in bike lanes, particularly when riding in narrow bike lanes near the stripe.
I am accepting that there are bad drivers and that they don't value the life of a cyclist at all. It is a calculated risk that cyclist must take. That doesn't mean it is OK to drive bad and sometimes a cyclist may wish to point out that to these drivers and whether that's a good or bad idea can be debated. Improving and influencing driver education to point out cyclists rights to new and existing drivers is something cyclists as a group could and should influence.
Blame each one individually if you want, but that won't change the fact that that is how driver's drive, and it is reasonable for them to do so.
That is not reasonable to expect bad driving. As a driver I have to adjust my spacing on the road to other cars on every trip. It ought to be reasonable to expect drivers to adjust to cyclists, motorcycles and pedestrians too.

[maddyfish]

I have only ran a guy down once, as I am not very fast. He came over towards me as he passed and yelled something. I ran him down, pulled up beside his Prius, and he was a tiny little dwarf of a man with glasses. As soon as he looked over at me, he ran the light.
I would like to say that I will not confront drivers. I don't think I should, but I can't say I never will do it again.

[fordfasterr]

Don't do it.


But you should carry a few sheet-metal screws in your tool-bag or backpack just in case their tires need a little help deflating after they exit their vehicle in the mall parking lot.


Watch out for mall parking video cameras / security guards. lol

[BLIZZ]

I am rather scared of ending up in a fistfight with Look Keo-cleats and cycling shoes on my feet. Some of the obviously less intellectually gifted motorists who try to educate me with their vehicle would be only too happy to pick a fight with a skinny cyclist in said shoes.

I have worried about this as well.
I don't go looking for a fight, but if I thought I might get into a situation where I would have to defend my self, I plan on getting the shoes off as soon as possible.
It gives me better footing, but I think if you hold your hard road shoe by the heal you might be able to get a cleat upside the head of your attacker. Or maybe able to bang them together to show your attacker how hard they are and how much it could hurt.

[genec]

I've encountered many otherwise decent people who are ignorant of road laws who must think we belong on the sidewalk. I've been challenged to "get off the road" more than once. I calmly tell them to go home, get online, and look up cyclists' rights on the roadway. That said, I think it's just plain stupid to impede traffic unnessicarily which I've also seen my share of. I also think hostile confrontations, while they may make us feel better, are largely ineffective and dangerous.

Define "impeding traffic unnessicarily."

I'll give you an example that I run into often that can be interpreted from either a cyclists view point or a drivers view point. I also often hear "get on the sidewalk" when riding in this manner.

Two lanes, going each direction, sidewalk between the street and rows of apartment buildings. Parked cars fill the curb for blocks and blocks. I ride in the right hand lane outside of the door zone of the parked cars, generally in the right tire track. On flats and downhills I go from 18 to 25MPH, the road is marked at 35MPH. On the uphills I do about 12MPH. There are stop lights about every two blocks. At 18MPH I often catch the motor traffic at each light. I do not filter forward. There are no bike lanes, and due to the geography of the area and the many canyons, there are no other streets that go through.

So, by using the right tire track of the right lane, and riding in the manner I describe, am I "impeding traffic unnecessarily?" Some motorists seem to think so. What do you think.

[buzzman]

I empathisize with the desire to confront drivers and admit to my share of confrontations but I am convinced the best strategy is the "zen" route. It really is the ideal and it translates nicely into life in general. I'm not into lecturing drivers either- basically I think it may make the lecturer feel better and do little to actually alter the behavior of the driver.

Regarding HH's contention that use of the bike lane results in the close shaves as described in the OP I would respectfully disagree. I ride Commonwealth Ave with regularity in Boston. This road is two lanes divided with many cross streets, stop lights, pedestrians and lined with park cars and NO bike lane. The speed limit, which is 30 mph, is basically disregarded by most of the motorists unless the road is so clogged with traffic they slow to a crawl. I take the middle of the right lane for most of the time I'm on Comm Ave at speeds ranging from 15-28 mph+ depending on wind and other conditions. I wear bright colored clothing and am regularly buzzed by cars and trucks at very close distances. I'm often tempted to chase them down at the next light (not too hard on Comm Ave) but I'm usually satisfied to just let them see that their aggressiveness got them nowhere. In any case, I've come to "expect" some drivers to come too close regardless of bike lanes or lane position.

One final word regarding confrontations with vehicles. An F-250's weight is 8800 lbs. more than 40 x's the weight of a 6'4" 225 lb cyclist. Imagine how well you would fare in fist fight with a full grown elephant. If a driver is aggressive enough to risk your life in passing you they may think nothing of "defending" themselves from your rage using that same vehicle.

[MNBikeguy]

Define "impeding traffic unnecessarily."/QUOTE]

Riding two abreast with no shoulder in heavy traffic. Or
Riding out of the shoulder into the road with heavy oncoming traffic.

I'll give you an example that I run into often that can be interpreted from either a cyclists view point or a drivers view point. I also often hear "get on the sidewalk" when riding in this manner.

Two lanes, going each direction, sidewalk between the street and rows of apartment buildings. Parked cars fill the curb for blocks and blocks. I ride in the right hand lane outside of the door zone of the parked cars, generally in the right tire track. On flats and downhills I go from 18 to 25MPH, the road is marked at 35MPH. On the uphills I do about 12MPH. There are stop lights about every two blocks. At 18MPH I often catch the motor traffic at each light. I do not filter forward. There are no bike lanes, and due to the geography of the area and the many canyons, there are no other streets that go through.

So, by using the right tire track of the right lane, and riding in the manner I describe, am I "impeding traffic unnecessarily?" Some motorists seem to think so. What do you think.

No. You have every right to ride this stretch of roadway. Keyword: "Unnecessarily" (See above examples). As a matter of courtesy, I might pull off for a minute to let the cars go that have been watching my rear wheel for the last 16 blocks, but there is no "obligation" that you get out of their way. Sidewalks are dangerous. Turning vehicles often do not see, nor do they usually expect, non-pedestrian sidewalk traffic.

[DukeArcher]

I usually let bad/aggressive/jerk's behaviour slide by holding my arms out as in "what are you doing?". But the last time I couldn't hold it in any longer. I was riding well on the shoulder on a semi-country road in Brisbane, when a carfull of rednecks passed me and threw a full tallie bottle of beer filled with water at me. It smashed into my frame (it weighed as much as a brick) and put a huge dent in my frame. I picked up the bottle and followed them. They were caught in a red light up ahead, and didn't expect me to catch them up. So I threw the bottle through their back window and side window smashing the windows to peices (must have been tempered glass) , and dismounted my bike. Instead, they sped off. Which is probably a good thing as there were four of them. In hindsight, should have called the cops instead, but it sure felt good getting them back with their (deadly) weapon.

[noisebeam]

I didn't need to confront this driver. Just his raised blood pressure from passing me earlier (he gave a 'toot' unclear if intended as friendly or not) and my direct presence in his side rear view was enough to get him talking first.

youtube UVCKzKJ74A (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UVCKzKJ74A)

Al

[SSP]

Define "impeding traffic unnessicarily."

I'll give you an example that I run into often that can be interpreted from either a cyclists view point or a drivers view point. I also often hear "get on the sidewalk" when riding in this manner.

Two lanes, going each direction, sidewalk between the street and rows of apartment buildings. Parked cars fill the curb for blocks and blocks. I ride in the right hand lane outside of the door zone of the parked cars, generally in the right tire track. On flats and downhills I go from 18 to 25MPH, the road is marked at 35MPH. On the uphills I do about 12MPH. There are stop lights about every two blocks. At 18MPH I often catch the motor traffic at each light. I do not filter forward. There are no bike lanes, and due to the geography of the area and the many canyons, there are no other streets that go through.

So, by using the right tire track of the right lane, and riding in the manner I describe, am I "impeding traffic unnecessarily?" Some motorists seem to think so. What do you think.

Impeding? Perhaps.

Unnecessarily? No. You have to protect yourself, and taking the lane on that type of road sounds reasonable to me. Better that than to get doored, or (shudder) ride on the sidewalk.

As others have mentioned, I'd also recommend moving over and/or waving around when you can to let drivers know you're not just being a JAB. :D

I'm also assuming you've looked for reasonable alternatives (e.g., cutting through neighborhoods, alleys, side streets, etc.). I often find that low volume streets, even if they have more stop signs, are faster and much more pleasant than trying to assert my rights on rush hour arterials.

[noisebeam]

Most drivers treat bike lane stripes like edge stripes (e.g., shoulder stripes, fog lines), and they often do not treat them any differently whether a cyclist is riding in that space or not. Like it or not, that's a fact of reality.
Thats my observation too. Most drivers, which of course means some drivers merge left within their lane to provide more passing clearance.
Some images and a video. Note in video I needed to move right to create more passing clearance.
youtube otpWDv8d24M (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otpWDv8d24M) (previously posted)

Al

[genec]

Impeding? Perhaps.

Unnecessarily? No. You have to protect yourself, and taking the lane on that type of road sounds reasonable to me. Better that than to get doored, or (shudder) ride on the sidewalk.

As others have mentioned, I'd also recommend moving over and/or waving around when you can to let drivers know you're not just being a JAB. :D

I'm also assuming you've looked for reasonable alternatives (e.g., cutting through neighborhoods, alleys, side streets, etc.). I often find that low volume streets, even if they have more stop signs, are faster and much more pleasant than trying to assert my rights on rush hour arterials.

Yeah I try move when there is good safe space to do so. Often I find that there really isn't time to move, while I can move over in the space of a couple of open parking spaces, I find that motorists will not react to the space I have given them, or worst, will fill the space and not allow me back in. So often I really don't have space to move over. As far as alternatives, there are none. The configuration of these neighborhoods is such that few streets are "thru" streets, many others dead end over canyons or into canyons. Thus the "thru" streets are the only streets that one can take from one area to another. The main streets are the only ones with bridges over the freeways and canyons. So alternative routes do not exist.