Classic & Vintage - Pros and Cons of repainting vintage frames

I have several vintage bikes and I am at a quandry as to whether I should repaint or leave 'em in their natural "aged" condition. None of them are excessively scratched up, but certainly not "brand new" looking. I have already used touch up paint extensiveely to clean them up a bit asthetically. It is the fact they are vintage that attracted me to them in the first place. Is it sacreligious to repaint an old frame?

My vote is for keeping things original. If you want a shiny new bike, there are plenty to choose. I like the history of the patina, a full paint or touch-ups covers that history. Economically, original will always be worth more than a restoration. Also, restorations can cost a lot of money. I would agree that a restoration is OK when you need to repair structural damage or to reverse a previous, botched restoration.

That said, it is a free country and the above is only my opinion, paint 'em if you got 'em.

Hmmmmmmm..

I'd rather see a truly unique vintage in original form.. no matter how knackered up.

That.. or restored to original-like condition.

I have a '50 Paramount sittin' in a faded pea green paintjob.. but if one were to look very closely there are still the traces of the original pinstriping. Now.. that is pricelessly cooler compared to the rattlecan matte black that haunts me to paint her with. Though the thought of restriping it would do it some justice.

I believe that Waterford does restoration paint and decaling to just about damn original form!

Another one, is a Frejus track that came my way with a freshly painted black metalflake. Nice.. eh? I eventually scratched 'er.. to realize that the color underneath was the eerie Frejus italian racing green. Wish she was left alone, rather than painted before going to auction. Who I then bought off of one who bought her at auction for the same amount spent. Cool.

If she was mine from the getgo.. she'd be left alone. That or sent to Waterford.. no matter how pricey it may be, for the sake of originality. Because now I'll never know what it looked like, in the shape nice as it is, that I got it.

Being a poorman.. I realize that sometimes you get what you get when you get it. Which ain't often.

Whatever.

No respray.

I'm also in the no respray camp unless you just have to, and if you care about resale I beleive the market feels the same way. If you were doing a full original restoration and never riding it, that may be another story.

I've been wondering the same thing. I have an old Austro-Daimler frame that I've considered giving the oxalic acid treatment, because some of the rust is beginning to bubble under the paint. I'm not as concerned with pretty paint on this one as with protecting the steel from rust. Besides, I'd hate to powdercoat over the hand painted pinstriping and lug accents.

How many of you keep frames with chips and scratches - and surface rust - untouched? I don't plan on riding this frame in the rain. So should I simply leave it be? If I bathe it in oxalic acid, I was planning on touching the bare metal with clear nail polish. But there are so many chips and scratches, it would be quite a task and would likely end up sloppy looking.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y21/dissident75/Austro%20Daimler%20Inter-10/AD_seatcluster_original.jpg

JYB, although yours may be getting closer to the "have-to" stage, I'd still try cleaning the rust - you've got to or it will bubble more paint off, and try to match the color. That color doesn't appear so odd or too metallic to not give matching a try. And by the end, you'll be so good you can hire yourself out to your friends.

In Old Blighty (that's the UK, or more precisely, England) it's long been common practice for the owner of a fine lightweight to take his chipped, scraped, rusty old bike back to the place that sold it for a "respray", when it was needed. He might select a new paint color or keep it just as it was, and the shop would apply the decals just as before, or maybe update the graphics if logos had changed or whatever. It wasn't sacrelige or ruinous to the bike's value, people understood the value of a fine bike and appreciated one that had been used, and well *maintained*. Situation here/now is different, many fine bikes are seen as "investments" and never ridden, and many shops don't service what they sell, never mind paint them, especially some *old* bike..."wouldn't you rather ride one of our brand new carbon fibre marvels?"
Rant over...I say save it or spray it, do whatever is right just do it *right*.

I think a key bit of information is missing from the opening post: are these bikes the former collection of Fausto Coppi? Or are they a bunch of bottom-of-the-line Nishikis from a garage sale?

A very few bikes absolutely must not be repainted lest something important be gone forever.

A lot of nice older bikes have some heritage or history that the wise owner leaves for the following generations. But a lot of "heritage/history" older bikes with horrible flaws or damage would benefit from a careful restoration.

And then there is the broadest category: old bikes that no one really cares about, beyond their ability to be used and enjoyed by their owners. Those bikes can be restored or repainted or used as garden ornaments and it doesn't really matter.

HTH!

I would decide based on the rarity and potential value of the bike. I'd respray a 70's or 80's Japanese frame that was plentiful and not too valuable, same for a bike boom average bike such as a U0-8 Peugeot. I'd avoid it on higher end bikes if at all possible.

I was given a pink and white Giant by a neighbor. No way was I going to ride it in THAT color unless it was after dark. No particularly great value there, just a nice early 80's road bike saved from the Salvation Army or worse, so I did a Dupli-Color rattle can finish in silver and blue with a fade. Not too bad for the time and money put into it. It looked better. It was worth little when I started and little when I finished.

I see it as kind of like taking your 15 year old Dodge Dynasty to Earl Scheib. At least it is all one color again.

"...I think a key bit of information is missing from the opening post: are these bikes the former collection of Fausto Coppi? Or are they a bunch of bottom-of-the-line Nishikis from a garage sale?..."

That is exactly my viewpoint on the topic. I have bikes that are in excellent condition, have no rust, and that is partially because I periodically take them apart, spray the insides with rust-inhibitor, and maintain them with an unblemished coat of paint to seal the metal. As ugly as it was, I would never repaint Alexi Grewal's original 1984 Olympics Pinarello...but my bikes look good after someone like Joe Bell or Tom Kellogg gets done with 'em!

OO, which in your mind is more fun; patina or a vintage bike that looks better then when it was assembled at the LBS? Once you decide your answer to this question you'll know the path you need to take. If it's a split decision, paint the one in the worse condition.

One response mentions "the history of the patina." Unless you have owned the bike since day one and have been it's only rider, or the previous owner kept a journal of every crash, scrape, wrench knock, screw driver gouge, etc., you can't really know the history of your bike's paint condition. Good luck.

I could keep a painter busy for a very long time given the number of vintage bikes I now own with "aged patina." It's unlikely I'll go for a respray for any of them, however, partially because of the cost, partially because I like not worrying about dinging my bikes up, partially because I like the look of a bike that's clearly been ridden. I don't begrudge anyone wanting to have a showroom piece, but that's just not for me.

Neal

Depends on the bike, some should be preserved due to their uniqueness, but if it is the common Goodwill/garage sale find, go for a respray. Here is a before & after example of one. Early 70s Raleigh Super Course repainted by Acme of Portland, OR that I fitted out with a NOS Shimano 600 group. Owner of my LBS said "They didn't look this good when I sold them new". Don

As regular readers know, I am trying to cover both bases.

When I bought the 1959 Capo about 10 years ago for $20 at a yard sale, it had already been repainted once with a dull-but-decent plain red coat of paint. Having it repainted quasi-accurately (the contrasting white head tube, similar to the treatment on ollo ollo's very nicely redone Raleigh Super Course, would have been original in my case) was strictly an economic decision, because there was no original paint left to preserve.

I bought the 1960 Capo last year to attempt a more accurate restoration, for a nice contrast to the 1959 (including the fact this one is white with a red head tube, rather than red with white). However, since the head tube's red enamel is flaking off in large chunks, I have no choice but to strip and paint at least the head tube panels while I try to patch and/or preserve the rest of the frame's paint job.

Is it sacreligious to repaint an old frame?
Gosh, I hope not! ... :p


But seriously, it really depends on the frame & the condition it's in, whether I would paint it or not.
And how good a paint job will be going on it! I wouldn't try to do a "restoration" with rattle cans!

In the strables are;

~my wifes' '76 Interclub. Original candy blue over 531.

~A Colnago that I traded for a MTN bike, back in '86. The original medium metallic blue was booooriiiiing. So I stripped the blue and sprayed my first "Dletron" paint job. It's French blue with pink pearl, so it looks lavender. I still have no idea the model or it's exact vintage.

~An early '80's Tom Ritchey road bike. It was in baaaaad shape when I got it in '87. I strippedd the rusty, nasty metallic brown and resprayed it with the colors-of-the-day, ... NEON pink/orange/yellow! With the very first StickFace bicycle badge! I also painted the Campy shift levers to match! :rolleyes:

~Rock Lobster #13! When it was originally built in '79 it was not even a R.L., it was hand lettered as a Paul Sadoff. So when I got it, OFF came the old candy purple! Now it has a marbled granite finish with intricate details. I also added the "Gargoyle" StickFace for show purposes.

~Merlin Racing Cycles. Original black & chrome. If I ever even thought of repainting that bike, I think I'd be 86ed from BF's!!!! :D

~'69 Clive Stuart. Currently it is wearing its 3rd Dr. Deltron finish. Originally the bike was yellow with black decals. Then I painted it yellow with orange lettering. Then back to yellow with black lettering. Now it's pearl white with neon grafitti all over it, including the shift levers & the brake lever bodies!

~'86 Cannondale MTN bike that is done in the original colors; yellow & red, but with an added Dr. Deltron color scheme!

So the "valuable" bikes are likely the ones with "original" finish. But to me they are all the same....

MY bikes!!! ... :D

To quote an above post....paint 'em if ya got 'em!!

and when it's done, CORKY wil be posted in a docu-blog of its transformation from old beater frame to museum restoration. (one paintjob that is likely to increase the value of the frame!) :rolleyes:

There's a pink Schwinn Super Sport nearby for sale with nice paint, but as much as I don't care what others think, I don't want to ride a pink bike. My young impressionable sons wouldn't allow it either. I'm considering to re-paint a different color.

"...any colour that he wants so long as it is black" -Henry Ford

OO, which in your mind is more fun; patina or a vintage bike that looks better then when it was assembled at the LBS? Once you decide your answer to this question you'll know the path you need to take. If it's a split decision, paint the one in the worse condition.

One response mentions "the history of the patina." Unless you have owned the bike since day one and have been it's only rider, or the previous owner kept a journal of every crash, scrape, wrench knock, screw driver gouge, etc., you can't really know the history of your bike's paint condition. Good luck.

I've really enjoyed the responses to this thread and am happy to see I'm not the only one who is concerned about this question.

I don't have any extra rare frames, but I have a couple of very nice "oldies" such as a 1978 Schwinn Volare and a 1979 Holdsworth. Both are 531, so they hold a special place in my heart. On a scale from 1-10 the original paint is about an 8 on both, so I chose to go with some touch up to protect the scratches. However, I just bought a 76 Super Course II that is more of 6 to 7 with alot of scratches and in need of new decal stripes, (which I just found on ebay.) It's not a particulary rare bike, but it is striking in it's bright green and white patina, plus it's a Carlton. This one could use extensive touch up, or even some respray to really sharpen the contrast between the green and white paint. (I also found some NOS gold Raleigh decals.) So I've been wondering if I should re-paint before re-decaling, or just touch it up then re-decal. Oh well, I guess I'll figure it out over time. No need to rush.

No need to rush.
From my experience and from what I've read by others who have repainted, it's not a fast experience. I don't believe there are any MAACOs for bike frames! In one morning and back the next afternoon!

A good painter takes his/her time and then you need to take the time building the bike back up correctly. From the time I sent my Paramount to the painter (early March) until I was able to finally ride it (early November), quite a bit of time had passed. It was well worth the wait!

Sounds as if the Super Course is a good candidate for you to experience the joy (and possibly frustration) of a full restoration project. Best of luck!

Depends on the bike, some should be preserved due to their uniqueness, but if it is the common Goodwill/garage sale find, go for a respray. Here is a before & after example of one. Early 70s Raleigh Super Course repainted by Acme of Portland, OR that I fitted out with a NOS Shimano 600 group. Owner of my LBS said "They didn't look this good when I sold them new". Don

Wow. That is beautiful! How is it holding up?

Someone who agrees with me about restoration. Granted, I don't think anyone here would want to restore it either.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170099580928&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:us

It depends on the condition. If original and sound, leave it alone. If its beat and getting worse, restore it. If its already been repainted before, why not do it right? Keep in mind professional paint, with repairs, correct decals and detailing usually costs more than the bike is worth. But if you love it, splurge!

Well, I'm glad some folks restore their old crocks. Otherwise me and Dr. Deltron would have to get honest jobs.

Don't worry you two, there's plenty of paint peeled and/or rusty frames out there to go around. :) Seems like everyone but me can find one in a thrift store or the garbage.

People who fear painting a bike that needs paint are forgetting why bikes (or cars, or ships, for that matter) are painted in the first place: To keep the bare metal from rusting.

I have a 1939 Swiss Army Militärvelo (many examples of which can be seen here: http://www.militaerveloshop.ch/ ) which I've been considering repainting. The bike seems to have had previous repainting work done and the paint is fairly uneven. After a lot of agonising about the idea of repainting a vintage bicycle I really feel that it would do a world of good..

But if I'm going to go ahead with this, I want it to be as close to how the original paintwork would have been as possible. I'm considering having the frame & forks shotblasted but following this I really don't know...

What kind of paint was predominantly used on pre 1st world war bicycles? Is shotblasting a bad idea? Any suggestions would be greatly welcome :-)

Should we paint or not?? I trying to restore and old uo-8 its a little bit rusty but still a good bike, its green original paint. I really want to put it the best i can. By the way can we use car wax to protect it more??

repainting a UO8, go forward, but remember transfers if found will not be free. It depends on what you want and where it is on the paint life cycle. as it is not a rare bike, the world won't falter.

On bikes I have acquired where they were powder painted prior, no question... repaint the thing.
I have one old bike 54 years old, and it was repainted sometime in its life, my guess 35 years ago or more, for that one, I now think its just recreate the transfers, apply them and build it up, the paint is in concert with the aging of the parts, to repaint without artificial aging would make it kind of like a woman with too many facelifts. This was even a problem back 30 years ago, new paint on a "current" bike required, new housing, tape, toe straps, waterbottle cage and a deep cleaning to make things look in harmony.

So it goes. with thoughts of Kurt Vonnegut.

"Wow. That is beautiful! How is it holding up?"

I rode the Super Course for about 5 years & it still looks pretty sharp, but it has accumulated some chips & scratches. Top tube was extra long so I mostly rode it late in the summer when I was nicely stretched out. I recently sold it to a co-worker/friend minus the wheel set which I kept to use on another bike. The only way to keep them pristine is to avoid riding. That's not going to happen, I ride all my bikes...
Don

Theres always a certain point you cross in which the value will either go up or down based on a respray. As others have noted if you have a garden variety bike I'd think the value would only go up if you re-sprayed. If you have whats obviously a more collectible model you have to ask yourself if the value will go down if you re-spray.

Some points to keep in mind....

1. If you respray will your bike still be identifiable as the same make? Will all identifying marks be removed when stripped?

2. Can you get decals? How hard will it be to replace your 'Reynolds' decals?

3. Once a frame is no astheticaly pleasing its time to do something.

Like several others I would have to say it depends on the bike and the condition and what you want out of it. When I had my old Bottecchia back in the day I rode it regularly and the paint on the top tube got worn pretty bad so I found some rattlecan automotive touchup in a matching shade of metallic blue and shot it. It came out pretty nice. Repeat every few years. By the time the bike had reached the classic period years later it had been touched up and bits and pieces resprayed many times so even the repainting was "vintage". The paint on my current Bottecchia is the same metallic blue but in much better shape - I'd rate it 8.5 so I'm going to leave it alone. Decals are more of an issue. 60's - 70's Bottecchias have those checkered flag decals on the top tube and on mine a previous owner put the cable clamps right over the decals and really tore them up. I was quite happy to see Greg at CycloMondo has started printing a Bottecchia decal set (just came in the mail today) so I am going to replace the checkered flags. Not sure if I will replace the rest of the decals at this time. There are some tears and scratches in the panel decals but they aren't horrible so I might leave them and stash the new decals for later use.

I have a 1939 Swiss Army Militärvelo (many examples of which can be seen here: http://www.militaerveloshop.ch/ ) which I've been considering repainting. The bike seems to have had previous repainting work done and the paint is fairly uneven. After a lot of agonising about the idea of repainting a vintage bicycle I really feel that it would do a world of good..

But if I'm going to go ahead with this, I want it to be as close to how the original paintwork would have been as possible. I'm considering having the frame & forks shotblasted but following this I really don't know...

What kind of paint was predominantly used on pre 1st world war bicycles? Is shotblasting a bad idea? Any suggestions would be greatly welcome :-)
Repainting would do a world of good. It will better preserve the substrate.
Creating original style of paint scheme & application methods, the piece is reaching museum quality.
How to make 21st Century materials look like they were sprayed in '39 is the trick.

But on a fine old 531 Holdsworth, I might be inclined to just retro-personalize it.
Maybe not quiiite like my ol' Clive Stuart... :p

And East Hill's Raleigh mixte ... can wait to get to that one...;)

and that beeeeat Cinelli ... I'd be tempted to bid, so I can have at THAT frame!
fleaBay for the parts. It's about my size :eek:

oops, kids! gotta race. ciao!

If you're going to commit to a repaint, I don't see how shotblasting would be a bad thing. Like Dr. D said, it's all about the substrate, and shotblasting will get rid of any corrosion that's developed over 70 years.