"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - powertap or ergomo?

I keep going back and forth!

I'd like to get a powermeter, but it'd be more for metering my efforts in races than training (I blow up real easily). Obviously once I had it I would train with it, but I just can't make up my mind which one to get.

Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi, you're my only hope...

Had I the cash, I would have bought the Ergomo. As I didn't, I got the PowerTap.

I just would have preferred the ability to use my boutique wheels.

Unless you already have ISIS or square-taper cranks, remember that you need new cranks for the Ergomo... I too wish I had the cash for it, though. I almost talked myself into it.

Other than price, what are the downsides to the Ergomo? I am sure like all of the others there has to be something. I know it only does power on one crank. But I thought I also heard it has to be shipped back to Germany to replace the battery.

-D

So, with the Ergomo, can you replace the bearings with standard $10 cartridges? BBs don't last forever (my sealed units seem to die in around 18 months -- 3-4 years out of a loose-ball unit).

Actually, what about the PT hub bearings? Replaceable indefinitely? What is the life expectancy of the electronics? I'm really thinking about making a move on something here...

Unless you already have ISIS or square-taper cranks, remember that you need new cranks for the Ergomo... I too wish I had the cash for it, though. I almost talked myself into it.

I was on a couple of websites and nobody mentions this. Will this Ergomo work with a traditional Dura Ace crankset. If not, why?

what sort of BB does a "traditional" DA crankset use? I know Ergomo offers square-taper and ISIS. Does the crank you have in mind use something different?

Actually, what about the PT hub bearings? Replaceable indefinitely? What is the life expectancy of the electronics? I'm really thinking about making a move on something here...


PT pro or lower is standard cone/cup - which most folks replace with duraace pretty quickly after.

PT SL and 2.4 are sealed cartridge. The axle nuts come loose pretty easily which I have set to tighten every 1000 km. Some folks use loctite, but I have a thing about chemical compounds close to a $1000 electronics package, so I'll just tighten mine in regular maintenance runs around the cassette/drivetrain.

I bought the PowerTap because I could easily switch it between bikes or even set it up on someone else's.
That is one of teh big advantages of the PT. With ther ergomo, one nice feature is that you get a lot of the cyclingpeaks variables on-the-fly like normalized power, intensity factor etc. That can make it easier to tune workouts where you want to get a certain TSS per ride. you just keep going until you get up to that value instead of overshooting. I believe you may even get altitude also with the ergomo.

The big problem is the whole BB thing. It doesn't work with certain setups.

what sort of BB does a "traditional" DA crankset use? I know Ergomo offers square-taper and ISIS. Does the crank you have in mind use something different?
10 spd DA cranksets use the Shimano Hollowtech 2 system with the outboard BB Cups. Ergomo is not compatible with Shimano 10 spd systems. I believe that Ergomo will work with the Shimano 9 spd Octalink BB's. Will also work with Campy, and ISIS BB's, such as Stronglight, Zipp, etc.

I'm in the same boat as you. I'm ready to pull the trigger on a power meter, but I ride 3 different bikes and about 4 different wheelsets, and it's tough to decide on a BB/crankset or hub based unit. The more I think about it, the more it seems to make most sense on the bike that I train on the most, even it means not getting power data from my races (I usually race on an older bike, unless it's a RR or I'm feeling confident in the course and field at crits). If the Ergomo worked with the DA 10 spd, I'd get one right now. I'm debating getting the Ergomo and Stronglight crankset, or getting the SRM. I think the Ergomo + crankset would quite a bit cheaper. I just don't want to limit myself to one wheelset, with the Powertap. I'd like to hear any input/suggestions, considering the circumstances.

I met someone a couple of years ago from the "other" forum, who was working on developing a power meter that would actually be in the pedals. I wish something like that would come out, that would be the solution to the one bike, or one wheelset dilema.

I met someone a couple of years ago from the "other" forum, who was working on developing a power meter that would actually be in the pedals. I wish something like that would come out, that would be the solution to the one bike, or one wheelset dilema.

http://www.microsporttech.com/


Shame the ibike just doesn't seem quite there. It would be near perfect for the multi bike issue.

-D

the microsport would be nice, but it can't take into account those times you're pulling up on the pedal during the upstroke. Not sure how much that *really* matters...

My problem with the Ibike is that it's really just estimating your wattage based on weight, wheel speed, air speed, and incline. Seems to me that it'd be marginally better than the HAC4's wattage estimate (which uses wheel speed, weight, and incline) but not a whole lot better. If I'm spending a bunch of money on a wattage device, I want it measured not estimated.

Ergomo is not compatible with Shimano 10 spd systems.

It's true that ergomo is not compatible with Shimano outboard-bearing BBs/cranksets, but it will work just fine with the rest of a 10s drivetrain. You would need a new crankset, one compatible with whatever BB style you get on the ergomo. ergomo themselves have cranksets, but you can get any crankset that is compatible with square-taper, ISIS, etc. that comes with the ergomo.

the microsport would be nice, but it can't take into account those times you're pulling up on the pedal during the upstroke. Not sure how much that *really* matters...

My problem with the Ibike is that it's really just estimating your wattage based on weight, wheel speed, air speed, and incline. Seems to me that it'd be marginally better than the HAC4's wattage estimate (which uses wheel speed, weight, and incline) but not a whole lot better. If I'm spending a bunch of money on a wattage device, I want it measured not estimated.

I wonder if it's safe to assume that the relative power will still be the same. If you're working twice as hard on the downstroke, then you're probably working around twice as hard on the upstroke?

I also wonder if the microsport will allow easy placement in either shoe, so you can check leg differences (I have an injury in my past that has my legs out of balance -- I think).

It's true that ergomo is not compatible with Shimano outboard-bearing BBs/cranksets, but it will work just fine with the rest of a 10s drivetrain. You would need a new crankset, one compatible with whatever BB style you get on the ergomo. ergomo themselves have cranksets, but you can get any crankset that is compatible with square-taper, ISIS, etc. that comes with the ergomo.
You're right, I was sloppy with my comment, but that's what I meant :)

http://www.microsporttech.com/


Shame the ibike just doesn't seem quite there. It would be near perfect for the multi bike issue.

-D
I'd never heard of the Microsport, until now. Interesting, I'll have to see if there are any reviews out there.

I wonder if it's safe to assume that the relative power will still be the same. If you're working twice as hard on the downstroke, then you're probably working around twice as hard on the upstroke?

I also wonder if the microsport will allow easy placement in either shoe, so you can check leg differences (I have an injury in my past that has my legs out of balance -- I think).

Definitely not the case for me. I only apply significant power on the upstroke when I'm crushing souls. During normal riding, I barely apply any force on the upstroke at all.

As someone who has had the conversation in my head about a 1000 times here is what my internal debate came up with:

PT vs SRM/ergomo- accuracy is about the same as are features. At the time I made my purchase the ergomo did not have an interval function, not sure if this has changed.

PowerTap pros:
Price; of the three the PowerTap SL is the most affordable, laced to an Open Pro/CPX 33 or DT Swiss RR 1.1 it's less than a ergomo and laced to Zipp 404's slightly less than an SRM Pro. (all prices are based on new retail sales price not ebay pricing).


SRM Amateur $2100.00
SRM Pro $2700.00 to $3400.00

Ergomo $1599.00 (full system minus cranks)

PowerTap SL with 32h Open Pro $1350.00
PowerTap SL with Zipp 404 clincher front/rear wheel $2500.00

Portability- Although I've spoken with guys who use their SRM's on multiple bikes it's much more of a hassle than just swapping out wheels. I use my PT between my RR and TT bikes and it's nothing more than swapping out the rear wheel. The ergomo is really out of the question in this regard and would require buying two units, about the same as an SRM (assuming you had the proper cranks already). Saris had kick arse customer service.

PowerTap cons:
Weight, it's heavy in comparison to the other units and this is very true when it comes to race set ups. If you want a separate set of race wheels then you need to either opt for the 404 setup or have another PT laced to your race wheels. The latter setup is now more costly than two ergomos or an SRM. Riding in the wet can be a real problem with the PT although I've not experienced this issue.

From the microsport website:

Accurate:

* ± 5% Seated compares with torque based devices!

That's a 10% spread and its only accurate when seated. Not going to fly IMO.

Doesn't the new cordless PowerTap unit solve the multi-bike issue??

the new wireless powertap is also a piece of crap.

the new wireless powertap is also a piece of crap.

Why is that BD?

Why is that BD?

Fickle connection that has lead the majority of users to experience significant periods of dropped data.

Fickle connection that has lead the majority of users to experience significant periods of dropped data.

It can't be too hard to wire a second bike for the wired version of the PowerTap, is it?

It can't be too hard to wire a second bike for the wired version of the PowerTap, is it?

just as hard as wiring the first one :)

But no, it's not that hard. Seriously not that hard.

To be fair to the SRM, I have the DA version, and it takes me no more than five minutes to swap it onto another bike (Though admittedly, I don't fully reattach the other crankset as the only one I will use is the SRM). Sure, its more time than a wheel switch, but no need to worry about race/training/disc wheel problems nor any need to worry about which bike it should be on. Its a matter of two bolts (on the non drive side DA crank arm) and thats it. Still, it is expensive (at least if you go DA option).

To be fair to the SRM, I have the DA version, and it takes me no more than five minutes to swap it onto another bike (Though admittedly, I don't fully reattach the other crankset as the only one I will use is the SRM). Sure, its more time than a wheel switch, but no need to worry about race/training/disc wheel problems nor any need to worry about which bike it should be on. Its a matter of two bolts (on the non drive side DA crank arm) and thats it. Still, it is expensive (at least if you go DA option).

Your motor justifies an SRM expenditure. For mine a more appropriate unit might be the Tonka Toys ergoTonka 3000. I think they sell them @ WalMart next to the $299 carbon fiber bikes. You store it in the sandbox next to the Tonka backhoe.

I purchased an extra PT wiring harness for a 2nd bike. It works great and cost about $50 as I recall.

--Steve

Your motor justifies an SRM expenditure. For mine a more appropriate unit might be the Tonka Toys ergoTonka 3000. I think they sell them @ WalMart next to the $299 carbon fiber bikes. You store it in the sandbox next to the Tonka backhoe.

I would think that the SRM would give you the ability to build a better motor. SRM is the gold standard and a lot of the issues with temperature variance and drift have been resolved. I'm a big fan and not just for being a better competitor but also to dramatically and specifically target fitness goals.

Will Ergo work with FSA SLK? I am assuming no because of the MegaExpo BB.

Anybody know?

Go with the Ergomo. Probably the most useful computer, in terms of what you have available at your fingertips. You have the standard stuff, speed and heart rate. Cadence is built into the bottom bracket. You also have altitude, and % grade. Beyond the normal information, you have interval function, normalized power, intensity factor, TSS, kilojoules/kcals - all built into the display. Plus, with the Ergomo, a rebadged version of Cyclingpeaks is included, which will save you $100 down the road. You can get the complete system itself for a little over $1000 used. I lucked out and came across one for sale with a slightly used head unit, and new bottom bracket for about that price.

Downsides are that power is technically only measured from the left crank, and thus your left leg. This is really only a problem if you are grossly asymmetric. It isn't a problem for me, but it's something to keep in mind. There is also the question of what to do in 2 or 3 years down the line when the BB needs to be overhauled. No word on what that will entail, but supposedly it'll involve sending it in for another unit. Since no Ergomo's are old enough yet, the problem really hasn't been addressed public ally.

Something else to consider is that the power unit is essentially married to one bike. You can, of course, buy more bottom brackets and just move the computer head unit around, as it's capable of remembering info for multiple bikes. But that involves another $700 bottom bracket.

It's certainly a robust system, and there have been no problems with water or cold. Battery power is good, and at a one second recording rate, there is plenty of memory in the unit for long rides. If you have anymore questions about the Ergomo, feel free to PM me. Except for a handful of other people, I think I'm one of the few around here with one of these units.

I've got the Ergomo and ordered a second one for the TT bike.

The factory can rebuild the units, I've heard they are turned around fairly quickly.

I've got the Ergomo and ordered a second one for the TT bike.

The factory can rebuild the units, I've heard they are turned around fairly quickly.
What crankset are you using with the Ergomo?

Hey guys, this is information from the following site. Not sure if this was a 2006 or 2007 update:

http://bikyle.com/PowerMeters.asp


Systems are currently available to fit all Campagnolo double cranksets in both regular (53x39) and compact such as 50x34 as well as the Ergomo carbon crankset (below). Systems to fit FSA and TruVativ ISIS splined cranksets are also in stock. Bottom brackets to fit traditional Shimano Octalink cranks are expected soon. Unfortunately, "MegaPro" cranks that use external bottom brackets like Dura Ace 10, Ultegra 10, FSA K-Force, and FSA SL-K will not be available until next year as these bottom brackets work much differently.

What crankset are you using with the Ergomo?

I'm using their carbon crankset (square taper Campy) on one (it looks like several other brands...Taiwanese factory mold no doubt), and will be using a Stronglight Vulcan ISIS on the other.

Got a team deal last year on the Campy set up.

Fickle connection that has lead the majority of users to experience significant periods of dropped data.

I have 2 of the 2.4 hubs. reportedly there is/was an antenna issue that causes the dropouts. I have not sent mine back yet for repair.

Downsides are that power is technically only measured from the left crank, and thus your left leg. This is really only a problem if you are grossly asymmetric.

My left leg is actually noticably stronger than my right leg....so that'll be good for the numbers :D

http://www.microsporttech.com/


Shame the ibike just doesn't seem quite there. It would be near perfect for the multi bike issue.

-D

Good lord!! :eek:
Does someone have a review on this thing? This would solve my problems too on finding a good power meter without having to break the bank.

the microsport would be nice, but it can't take into account those times you're pulling up on the pedal during the upstroke. Not sure how much that *really* matters...

My problem with the Ibike is that it's really just estimating your wattage based on weight, wheel speed, air speed, and incline. Seems to me that it'd be marginally better than the HAC4's wattage estimate (which uses wheel speed, weight, and incline) but not a whole lot better. If I'm spending a bunch of money on a wattage device, I want it measured not estimated.

Oh crap.....the upstroke. :(
You think microsport took that into account? :(

But the force doesn't go to zero on the upstroke; and it certainly doesn't go negative. In other words, and despite what your training buddies might tell you, you don't pull-up on the pedals. But that never made much sense anyways, did it, and we at Micro Sport are glad to clear up this common misconception.

That took it into account by using the fine art of bull****. I guess I'm one of those training buddies, because while I usually don't apply power on the upstroke, I can absolutely guarantee that sometimes I do.

Sprints and hard accelerations. Does anyone do those without applying power on the upstroke?

That took it into account by using the fine art of bull****. I guess I'm one of those training buddies, because while I usually don't apply power on the upstroke, I can absolutely guarantee that sometimes I do.

Sprints and hard accelerations. Does anyone do those without applying power on the upstroke?

Geez! The microsport people said that? Did they take lessons from politicians on the art of the non-answer?
I don't know about them but I certainly apply power on the upstroke as well as the downstroke. I'm doing my best to learn the best way to spin evenly and smoothly.
hmm.......why not a sensor sock? LOL! :D
That way in the shoe it would record pressure on the downstroke and the upstroke. But even so....I would still like to hear reviews by users or some review site or magazine on this product.

So, platypus, now that this thread is revived: what did you end up doing?

I went for a (used) PT myself...

So, platypus, now that this thread is revived: what did you end up doing?

I went for a (used) PT myself...

Ya. What did you end up doing. I tells ya though, even though I like the ergomo truth is I can't afford it. :(
I mean, if it is really worth it and the microsport isn't any good I suppose then that I really will break the bank to get it. :(

Ya. What did you end up doing. I tells ya thouh, even though I like the ergomo truth is I can't afford it. :(
I mean, if it is really worth it and the microsport isn't any good I suppose then that I really will break the bank to get it. :(
The microsport could well be worthwhile. It's just that their explanation of the upstroke calculation isn't exactly confidence inspiring. It might compensate decently somehow. Also, if you want it for TTs for example, it doesn't matter much anyway.

The microsport could well be worthwhile. It's just that their explanation of the upstroke calculation isn't exactly confidence inspiring. It might compensate decently somehow. Also, if you want it for TTs for example, it doesn't matter much anyway.

Nah, mostly for newbie hill climb training. All them dang spinerval dvd suffering where I was certainly training with with upstrokes ain't going to go to waste cause some dunderhead and microsport says its a waste. :mad:

I keep going back and forth!

I'd like to get a powermeter, but it'd be more for metering my efforts in races than training (I blow up real easily). Obviously once I had it I would train with it, but I just can't make up my mind which one to get.

Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi, you're my only hope...


If the reason you want it is to meter efforts in racing, I'm assuming you're talking about Time trials. (because in a road race or a crit, 99% of the time, you've got to do what it takes regardless of what the power meter says.) In 20 races with a power meter, I have actually used the data during the race once.

So if the purpose is to meter a TT effort, then that argues heavily for the Ergemo because you cna use it with a disc wheel.

the new wireless powertap is also a piece of crap.

I initially had problems with my PT SL 2.4. I returned it to Saris and it was worked perfectly since. Saris apparently received a shipment (or several) of antennas that did not transmit per spec across the entire range, and, it was not picked up on QC. They found and fixed the problem and reports are that the system is now rock solid. I have only had mine working for the last three weeks, but so far, so good.

As for 2.4 vs. wired, it you consider the cost of additional wiring kits, the 2.4 is not all that much more expensive than the non-wireless and you don't run the risk of nicking a wire.

Will Ergo work with FSA SLK? I am assuming no because of the MegaExpo BB.

Anybody know?

Some of the older SL-K's are ISIS. I don't know if anyone would still have 2005/2006 SL-K's on the shelf.

I just bought my ergomo and not taking money into account it's a better computer.

I just bought my ergomo and not taking money into account it's a better computer.
It's large and in charge. I wish there was a way to get it onto the stem. Maybe time to petition them for a stem mount.