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I never had a problem with retro friction shifters especially on touring setups due to their simplicity. But I've always needed to glance down at the shifter position. On this newest tandem project I'm considering going to indexed shifting because neither the triple front nor the rear cluster is easy to "glance" at. But with longer cables, different brake pull requirements, and some other issues, I'm not completely sure about this.
Any opinions on staying with friction or going indexed?
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Back in the olden days the stoker would advise you to "Clean your shift." Those three words could be delivered with a variety of inflections.
I love my Flight Deck.
Any opinions on staying with friction or going indexed?
Unless you're buying vintage components, most of the downtube and bar-end shifters produced over the last 15 - 20 years are indexed but also have a friction setting. So, if you stick with the newer stuff I don't think you have to make any decision beyond the max number of gears the shifters need to support.
I love my Flight Deck.
+1
Back in the olden days the stoker would advise you to "Clean your shift." Those three words could be delivered with a variety of inflections.
I love my Flight Deck.
One of the many delegated jobs of the stoker. They also thump you on the back if their ears are full of Geartrain noises, so learn to listen or get it right first time.
If you're considering integrated brake/shifters (aka, brifters) such as Shimano's STI levers, Campy's Ergo levers, Modolo Morphus levers or the SRAM offerings, there are a couple different ways to establish your chain position... some far less expensive than the Flightdeck or Ergo Brain computers.
I use R/C model airplane "collars" on my derailleur cables as a visual cue for determining chain position; they would be the two little chrome things on the derailleur cable just below the cable stop:
http://www.thetandemlink.com/articles/gpis2.gif
A description can be found here: http://www.thetandemlink.com/articles/gpis.html. Not all tandems are designed with the cable stops in what I'll call an easily accessed position that lends itself to the use of these things, but my guess in any older tandem with downtube shifteer bosses would.
Shimano also produced a relatively inexpensive inline gear position indicator which, although designed for the rear derailleur cable, can also be used in the front cable to provide "relative" positioning. Most Shimano dealers carry the things but here's a link to one etailer's listing: http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=16742
http://www.universalcycles.com/images//products/medium/16742.jpg
If you're considering integrated brake/shifters (aka, brifters) such as Shimano's STI levers, Campy's Ergo levers, Modolo Morphus levers or the SRAM offerings, there are a couple different ways to establish your chain position... some far less expensive than the Flightdeck or Ergo Brain computers.
I use R/C model airplane "collars" on my derailleur cables as a visual cue for determining chain position; they would be the two little chrome things on the derailleur cable just below the cable stop:
http://www.thetandemlink.com/articles/gpis2.gif
A description can be found here: http://www.thetandemlink.com/articles/gpis.html. Not all tandems are designed with the cable stops in what I'll call an easily accessed position that lends itself to the use of these things, but my guess in any older tandem with downtube shifteer bosses would.
Shimano also produced a relatively inexpensive inline gear position indicator which, although designed for the rear derailleur cable, can also be used in the front cable to provide "relative" positioning. Most Shimano dealers carry the things but here's a link to one etailer's listing: http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=16742
http://www.universalcycles.com/images//products/medium/16742.jpg
Yes. I picked up one of those on ebay for a few bucks. I've always figured I could make my own easy enough. I will probably try it out, but was as much concerned about trim as I was which specific gear combo I was currently engaged to.
..and both shifters use the downtube cable stops. That's a neat idea that is probably easier than fashioning one of those position indicators. I will look into that as well. Very nice.
I ... was as much concerned about trim as I was which specific gear combo I was currently engaged to.
If you've still got only five, six, or even seven cogs on the rear, stoker feedback should be sufficient to help you trim the derailleurs for "silent running." However, in my experience, lever travel between gears becomes so small with eight or more cogs that it is extremely difficult to consistently position the derailleur "just so" without the aid of indexing. I raced for a looong time with friction SunTour barcons but finally had to change my single to indexing when I switched to an eight speed cassette sometime in the mid-1990s (got my first brifters in 2003, so you know I'm not an early adopter :-). You may be more coordinated than I am, so YMMV. But I have to think that the extra cable length on a tandem will only make it more difficult to find satisfactory "trim" on a ≥8-speed system without indexing.
Barend shifers also work fine; most you can set up friction/indexed for rear shifting.
We use 9 speed D/A barcons; a glance at the shift lever will pretty wel lindicates what grst you're on . . . plugs legs/terrain will certainly tell you when to shift.
I also raced a long time with Suntour bar end shifters. Years ago I had a tandem with the same. One would develope a feel, and could get pretty good at it. As Rudy says with these the position of the lever [look or feel] would tell you "where you were". With experience even the trim could be quite close.
The hard part .... was more of an issue of not always being able to hear, the noise if you are not "trimmed" properely. As others have said it was the stokers job, to tell you.
I think we did quite well with it, but I can't say I would want to go back. :) unless maybe I was trying to keep the whole bike original.
While I think TG's positioning set up is pretty clever. I really really like my flightdeck also.
Changing positions as I do, [I use an aero bar a lot] I would not be able to see the "markers". One of my favorite aspects of the flight deck is the virtual cadence [vs actual cadence]. We have a lot of roller coasters here. Towards the bottom of these, we are in full tuck coasting.... and one tends to want to hammer the other side. I can coast... see what my virtual cadence is, and know exactly when it is time to stand and hammer.
glenn
Back in the olden days the stoker would advise you to "Clean your shift." Those three words could be delivered with a variety of inflections.
Even with indexed front shifting, some stokers still do, or at least my stoker can drive me nuts. For some reason, the sound of a chain rubbing the front derailleur cage seems to fall out of my normal hearing range.
I'm using bar end shifters now, just because it's easier to silence the front. :)
Man ,these responces are so complicated for a simple question,it gives you much to at least condsider though. In my first 20 yers of shifting "ten speeds" I had friction,I'd glance down or such ,feeling compelled to do so was simply a habbit. When I used my next bike with index for 15 years,not so. This week actually,I'd completed repair on both a friction and index,rode them concurrently,switching bikes back and forth.In so doing,realized myself NOT looking down when using the friction bike.I'd not ridden the friction much,much less paid attention.I
wouldn't disway ones choice in selecting index if that's what's available.I will say that the habbbit of looking down at the shifters is just that.I unknowingly dealt with it.You'll need to think about it less while your on the bike than you are on this forum.Both the two bikes I mentioned are down tube.I'll add;if you think getting used to friction or non is a bear,wait 'till you try bar-ends,now THOSE are unsettling for me to use.For touring they have thier virtues,I don't knock them but since everyones mentioning everything ,I thought I would as well.
Get the in-line position indicators. They work well in my experience, particularly with the right STI levers as you can otherwise lose track of where you are on the block and end up running out of gears on the block when you meet a hill. IMO you don't really need a left hand indicator. Much cheaper than flite deck.
Ask your clubmates to look in their spares cupboards before buying as these gadgets also come on lower-end road bikes and many people will have taken them off as theyr'e not necessary when you can see the block.
Tandemgeek's solution is novel, but he can't easily use a gear indicator because his tandems have campag shifters, which have concealed cables.
To speak the same language as RC geeks when buying these at your local model shop, ask for Du Bro wheel collars.
Tandemgeek's solution is novel, but he can't easily use a gear indicator because his tandems have campag shifters, which have concealed cables.
Actually, you can use the Shimano In-Line indicators installed at the cable stops, but the DuBro collars came 4 to a pack for $2.50 and, well, I try to cut costs whenever possible... :D
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