Living Car Free - Talk of the Nation

Right now, TOTN on NPR is talking to Colin Beavan about making life changes including going car free.

http://www.npr.org/templates/rundowns/rundown.php?prgId=5

Audio is going to be up later.

http://www.colinbeavan.com/

I admire him, but on the other hand I have a problem with him and other zero-impact folks for setting a bar that's so high nobody will be able to follow. The fact is you don't have to do much to make a big difference. Just eating your meals at home and commuting by bike can have an enormous difference. And the environment is perhaps not the best selling point. There are benefits of making changes, from health to weight loss and financial gain, that might make better selling points for most Americans.

I admire him, but on the other hand I have a problem with him and other zero-impact folks for setting a bar that's so high nobody will be able to follow. The fact is you don't have to do much to make a big difference. Just eating your meals at home and commuting by bike can have an enormous difference. And the environment is perhaps not the best selling point. There are benefits of making changes, from health to weight loss and financial gain, that might make better selling points for most Americans.
I'll listen to this later, but I totally agree with you, Cosmoline. We've got to start appealing to the majority of Americans, not just the few who are really hard-core. I admire that, don't get me wrong, but if a million families went car-light, that would be a greater impact than a thousand car-free individuals, IMO. Especially if they're raising children with those values.

And the environment is perhaps not the best selling point. There are benefits of making changes, from health to weight loss and financial gain, that might make better selling points for most Americans.
This is a spot on observation. Fitness, above all else, was my "selling point" for getting into cycling/and going quasi-car-lite. Financial gain and environmental concerns came second.

I admire him, but on the other hand I have a problem with him and other zero-impact folks for setting a bar that's so high nobody will be able to follow. The fact is you don't have to do much to make a big difference. Just eating your meals at home and commuting by bike can have an enormous difference. And the environment is perhaps not the best selling point. There are benefits of making changes, from health to weight loss and financial gain, that might make better selling points for most Americans.

I find people like this personally inspiring. But you are right that many Americans might simply dismiss a lot of the easy measures they can take to reduce their impact if they are confronted with an extreme goal like zero impact.

Honestly, I'm rather skeptical that it will be possible to make large changes in American's transportation behavior without major changes in the way we structure our communites and price our transportation alternatives. People love the perceived speed, convenience, and safety of their motor vehicles. Perhaps I'm just cynical because I can't even convince my own family members to purchase fuel efficient cars, let alone ride bicycles. :)

Despite my cynicism, I do try to set and good example advocate for accessible low-impact living. For example, I commute to work in normal street clothes, in the hope that people will see me and think that they too can ride their bike for transportation.

The story is up on the Talk of the Nation website now. Here is the link to the audio file:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9479796

If this guy is a writer with a book advance, then he's inherently uninteresting.

Driving and/or owning a motor vehicle provides at least illusions of safety, convenience, prestige, fun, speed, security, power, pride, privacy, etc. Certainly these are all elements of advertising for motor vehicle sales. The arguments for not driving are not nearly so compelling. The financial and health costs of driving obviously haven't been enough to make much difference. I can't imagine anything short of some dire incontrollable circumstance that has any chance of changing our driving habits. The most radical proposals from our politicians involve partial transitions to alternative fuels such as alcohol or hydrogen. Manufacturing, selling, maintaining and fueling the private motor vehicle represent huge portions of the US and world economic activity. I suspect the ability to stay in constant motion while spending money as we go also makes a significant economic impact. I plan to just keep pedalling and see how it shakes out.

Manufacturing, selling, maintaining and fueling the private motor vehicle represent huge portions of the US and world economic activity.
I'm sure this is an important factor in maintaining the status quo as well. In fact China is in the process of a massive transformation from being a bicycle-oriented society to being a car-oriented society, and I suspect that the manufacturing jobs and economic activity generated from building, selling, and servicing all those cars is a big reason that the Chinese government is pursuing this policy.

Right now, TOTN on NPR is talking to Colin Beavan about making life changes including going car free.

http://www.npr.org/templates/rundowns/rundown.php?prgId=5

Audio is going to be up later.

http://www.colinbeavan.com/

I admire him, but on the other hand I have a problem with him and other zero-impact folks for setting a bar that's so high nobody will be able to follow. The fact is you don't have to do much to make a big difference. Just eating your meals at home and commuting by bike can have an enormous difference. And the environment is perhaps not the best selling point. There are benefits of making changes, from health to weight loss and financial gain, that might make better selling points for most Americans.


Exactly. Sadly, too many folks advocating such lifestyle changes end up coming across in a 'Greener Than Thou" manner. I say 'sadly', because this approach IMMEDIATELY turns off the very folks that can benefit the most from these lifestyle changes. I remember reading of a Zen master who advised to let your neighbors discover you, before making yourself known to them. If we can save the lectures/statistics/etc for the choir, and subtly advance the health/economic benefits of cycling for the skeptics, we may be on to something. My $.02 anyway.

I'm sure this is an important factor in maintaining the status quo as well. In fact China is in the process of a massive transformation from being a bicycle-oriented society to being a car-oriented society, and I suspect that the manufacturing jobs and economic activity generated from building, selling, and servicing all those cars is a big reason that the Chinese government is pursuing this policy.

I am definitly seeing an active effort to push people off of bicycle dependence. The bigest dirrection that most people go is to electric mopeds. It has a motor and is given most of the benifits that motor vehicles enjoy while still being affordable. Of course most people then get a petrol motorscooter as soon as possible.

Thanks for that. I missed TOTN today, and would have missed this article as well.

I'm sure this is an important factor in maintaining the status quo as well. In fact China is in the process of a massive transformation from being a bicycle-oriented society to being a car-oriented society, and I suspect that the manufacturing jobs and economic activity generated from building, selling, and servicing all those cars is a big reason that the Chinese government is pursuing this policy.

After Tienanmin Square, I also suspect that the Chinese government is using fancy trinkets like cars to keep people's attention off the pollution and the police state that they live in.

If this guy is a writer with a book advance, then he's inherently uninteresting.
Huh? If you don't read books written by writers, what do you read?

The car is a hollow dream. First there's the pollution. But more and more motorists are realizing that they are slaves to their car. Freedom is an illusion, and in larger cities even movement is an illusion, as cars idle in gridlock while bikes and buses in HOV lanes whiz by them. As gas prices rise, people are paying more for the "privilege" of being the slave of a machine.

People are stupid, but stupidity is not infinite. The grumbling about cars has started, soon people will be voting with their feet, literally.




After Tienanmin Square, I also suspect that the Chinese government is using fancy trinkets like cars to keep people's attention off the pollution and the police state that they live in.
In the process creating more pollution and more revenue for the police state.

People are stupid, but stupidity is not infinite.

I'm not so sure about that, Roody :eek:

Remember what Einstein said?

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

If this guy is a writer with a book advance, then he's inherently uninteresting.

???

The way I look at it is: Ignorance can be cured by education, stupidity can't.:rolleyes: :D Once people have been educated to the REAL cost of car ownership and don't take steps to remedy it, if they choose, then it is stupidity.

Aaron:)

The car is a hollow dream. First there's the pollution. But more and more motorists are realizing that they are slaves to their car. Freedom is an illusion, and in larger cities even movement is an illusion, as cars idle in gridlock while bikes and buses in HOV lanes whiz by them. As gas prices rise, people are paying more for the "privilege" of being the slave of a machine.

People are stupid, but stupidity is not infinite. The grumbling about cars has started, soon people will be voting with their feet, literally.

I think the degree that people are willing and able to fool themselves about the perceived benefits of automobiles is astounding. My brother was very recently diagnosed with epilepsy, and as a consequence he can no longer drive, at least until his medication is able to effectively manage his condition. He called me up yesterday and told me how he felt like he had completely lost his independance and that he felt helpless, because he could no longer drive, and had to have his wife drive him everywhere.

I find his attitude unsurprising, but for me, in some ways I feel more free and independent when biking, walking, or taking public transit.

On the plus(?) side, between China and India, once there are a billion new internal combustion commuters we can pretty much kiss the gas supply goodbye. Look at the huge impact China's boom is having on world supplies of far more common materials such as concrete and steel.

On the plus(?) side, between China and India, once there are a billion new internal combustion commuters we can pretty much kiss the gas supply goodbye. Look at the huge impact China's boom is having on world supplies of far more common materials such as concrete and steel.

I'm not sure that we will exhaust the fossil fuel supplies before we have don't irreversible harm to the climate. Remember that both China and the United States have extensive coal reserves, so if oil starts to get too expensive, I'm sure we'll start seeing coal-to-liquid facilities ramping up in both countries.

Icycle: my uncle is exactly the same way as your brother. By that I mean that when he got busted for way too many DUI's, and then had his license suspended for a year (no, this isn't the uncle that I'm moving in with (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=273944)). This uncle of mine is a travel agent with his own business. He "needs" his car because he frequently travels to Downtown Seattle to run errands and pick up tickets for his customers. Downtown Seattle is not very far from his office (only about 2 miles, I think...his office is located within the International/Chinatown district, in case the Seattle-ites around here were wondering). Still, he complained about how horrible it was to go without a car, because he either had to:

1. Take the bus.

or

2. Bum rides off his girlfriend, friends, and my other uncles and aunts.

When I go to Seattle, I'll suggest a bicycle messenger service for him so he doesn't waste his gas sitting in urban traffic just to pick up a set of stupid plane tickets for customers. If he can't afford a bicycle messenger service, I will of course be happy to run his errands for him as his courier for free :D

wahoonc: I agree. Stupidity can't be cured, but ignorance sure can with education ;)

I'm sure we'll start seeing coal-to-liquid facilities ramping up in both countries.

That's a scary point. Check this out:


Coal-to-diesel Breakthrough Could Drastically Cut Oil Imports


http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/04/060414014526.htm

I guess some might see this as a good thing. But while Alaska alone, for example, has enough coal reserves to fuel global consumption for some time, the environmental cost of getting at it makes a few holes in ANWR look like nothing. So far most of the world's coal is untapped because it's just not cost effective to get to, though if the value goes up that might change. Even "clean" coal is still going to produce CO2. Plus anywhere it's extracted is pretty much turned into a lifeless hell on earth.

I'm not sure that we will exhaust the fossil fuel supplies before we have don't irreversible harm to the climate. Remember that both China and the United States have extensive coal reserves, so if oil starts to get too expensive, I'm sure we'll start seeing coal-to-liquid facilities ramping up in both countries.

lower 48 states hit peak coal around 1998-1999 as far as maximum btu's worth of coal per year goes

the easy to get good coal is getting damn scarce, the seams continue to get smaller and hard to get for all grades driving up costs and slowing extraction

and like many of our resources the actual reserve numbers have proven to be incredibly optimistic even when all the hard data says otherwise, a quick look at EIA and IEA forecasts vs reality bears that out

anyway, "extensive" reserves, not IMHO........coal to liquids ramps up with any speed and we might get 40yrs if that

this same discussion has been hashed out elsewhere over the last couple of weeks, mostly on theoildrum.com, the consensus seems to be, dont count on coal as the easy out and life preserver, it wont be there, a google search of "peak coal" might make for some interesting surfing right about now

So far most of the world's coal is untapped because it's just not cost effective to get to, though if the value goes up that might change.

I think this underscores the importance of getting the price of renewable energy down-- you can tell people to conserve over and over again, but people will continue to use fossil fuel energy until the cost of extracting it has risen slightly less than (or maybe the same as) the price of renewable energy. Appealing to people's sense of guilt about the environment can help a little bit, but that alone won't be the main source of large-scale behavior changes of the sort that change world markets. France apparently produces more non-fossil-fuel energy than it uses (http://www.cslforum.org/france.htm)* and one of the effects is that there are more fossil fuel left over on world markets for everybody else (including Chinese and Indian companies) to buy.

*and produces fossil fuel electricity as well.... it's an electricity exporting country

Interesting topic and points by all the posters. I'll probably catch the replay on my local NPR later today. My view on "the problems of cars" and one's personal choices to make a difference is to focus on the real problems of car dependence and the benefits of biking, walking etc by means of using the same weapon of advertising and marketing. If people can be convinced to spend $50-60,000.00 for some overgrown car, truck or SUV then those in the Green movement should be able to muster the same clout. I've spent 30 years as the proverbial traveling salesman. My car, gas, and travel expenses are paid by the employer. Sounds like a great deal but it's not. All that driving, going and schlepping takes it's toll both physically and mentally. I've been rear-ended so many times that I've lost count. I've had several cars totalled by insurance companies from being in multiple car collisions. I've seen the bloodied tarps covering the motionless bodies underneath laying on the freeway (?) pavement. At this point in life I'm seeking professional help to cope with both the emotional/physcological and physical pains that are just starting to make themselves known. Heart disease, cancers of various types may be the recognized silent killers, but the latent problems from driving of stress, anxiety and physical pains should and probably in time will be included. Looks like I've started to ramble so I'll stop for now. PG.

Interesting topic and points by all the posters. I'll probably catch the replay on my local NPR later today. My view on "the problems of cars" and one's personal choices to make a difference is to focus on the real problems of car dependence and the benefits of biking, walking etc by means of using the same weapon of advertising and marketing. If people can be convinced to spend $50-60,000.00 for some overgrown car, truck or SUV then those in the Green movement should be able to muster the same clout. I've spent 30 years as the proverbial traveling salesman. My car, gas, and travel expenses are paid by the employer. Sounds like a great deal but it's not. All that driving, going and schlepping takes it's toll both physically and mentally. I've been rear-ended so many times that I've lost count. I've had several cars totalled by insurance companies from being in multiple car collisions. I've seen the bloodied tarps covering the motionless bodies underneath laying on the freeway (?) pavement. At this point in life I'm seeking professional help to cope with both the emotional/physcological and physical pains that are just starting to make themselves known. Heart disease, cancers of various types may be the recognized silent killers, but the latent problems from driving of stress, anxiety and physical pains should and probably in time will be included. Looks like I've started to ramble so I'll stop for now. PG.

Amen and +1!

I to have to travel at this time for a living. The company does cover your vehicle costs. But that is only a small part of it. There isn't much quality of life living in motel rooms:( and having to fight your way around the country on a daily basis via the freeway system.

Aaron:)

I think the degree that people are willing and able to fool themselves about the perceived benefits of automobiles is astounding. My brother was very recently diagnosed with epilepsy, and as a consequence he can no longer drive, at least until his medication is able to effectively manage his condition. He called me up yesterday and told me how he felt like he had completely lost his independance and that he felt helpless, because he could no longer drive, and had to have his wife drive him everywhere.

I find his attitude unsurprising, but for me, in some ways I feel more free and independent when biking, walking, or taking public transit.
I'm sorry about your brother, and I hope he's inspired by your example. Have you told him about this forum? Do you think we might be helpful to him?

The arguments for not driving are not nearly so compelling. .

How about Type 2 Diabetes..?

I'm sorry about your brother, and I hope he's inspired by your example. Have you told him about this forum? Do you think we might be helpful to him?
Thank you for your concern. I think my brother will be OK in the long run, and he might even take up cycling in the short run until he qualifies for a driver's license again. But I don't think he or anyone else in my family are ready to be receptive to the message of car-free or car-lite living. My brother's last two cars were a Mitubishi Eclipse and a Ford Mustang. My other brother's current vehicle is a huge crew-cab pickup truck that he got so he could tow his wakeboarding boat to the lake. My mother is convinced that I will be run over by a car from behind if I ride a bike on the street. I tend not to tell her has much about my cycling activities.

I do share my feelings about cycling with my family, and I set a good example with my own actions. But nearly everyone in my family is firmly in the typical American demographic that is in love with/completely dependant upon their cars, and I can't imagine anything that would change that.

my family is firmly in the typical American demographic that is in love with/completely dependant upon their cars, and I can't imagine anything that would change that.


one...more..time...How about Type 2 Diabetes..?

one...more..time...How about Type 2 Diabetes..?

I think you are preaching to the choir here. Those of us advocating bicycle transportation already understand the arguments for cycling, but those arguments are not necessarily compelling to those in the thrall of the automobile.

Of all my family members, my father is probably most receptive to the cycling message, since he is somewhat politically liberal and was an avid cyclist when he was younger. He has been medicated for high blood pressure for years. Last year, he was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. Yet he is still overweight, still doesn't get enough exercise, still drives his car to work every day.

I think you may underestimate the hold that automobile addiction has on the average American. Over half of all trips in America are under 5 miles. Substituting a bicycle for even a fraction of those trips would go a long way towards combat the major problems of obesity, diabetes, and dependence on foreign oil, and would save people hundreds, or even thousands of dollars per year. Yet none of this is sufficient to convince anything but a tiny minority of people to bike instead of drive.

one...more..time...How about Type 2 Diabetes..?
I hear you!!!

I have type 2 diabetes. Thank God, since I've lost weight and adopted an active lifestyle, my blood sugars are normal without using any drugs. I get my blood sugar tested (glycosated hemoglobin) evry 6 months to make sure.

I know that the disease is likely to get worse at some future point, but I've bought myself some time simply by riding and walking almost everywhere I go.