Touring - Thorn advise me NOT to install a kickstand... but why???

hey all,

i've heard the same from many bike stores: DO NOT INSTALL A KICKSTAND

Why not? I was looking to order a Pletchser two-leg kickstand for my Thorn Sherpa, but now I have been told by Thorn that "Voids Thorn frame warranty, may crush thin walled chainstays if the bike is heavily loaded or leaned on"

So can anyone suggest an alternative?

I recall seeing a prop pole or something? can anyone give me more info or a link please?

Think this is too heavy or cumbersome to tour with?

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Bike-Bicycle-Storage-Display-Stand-ffj_W0QQitemZ280102584855QQihZ018QQcategoryZ7295QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Well..........I suppose I could make a suggestion. It is called a Click-Stand. They fold to fit in a rack bag, and weigh about 70 grams. There are models that will support fully loaded touring bikes. The web site is: www.Click-Stand.com

Tom

http://users.techline.com/tomn/park_near_Bandon.jpg

Think this is too heavy or cumbersome to tour with?

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Bike-Bicycle-Storage-Display-Stand-ffj_W0QQitemZ280102584855QQihZ018QQcategoryZ7295QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I'd imagine I'd accidentally knock over the bike a number of times using that design... You'd have to lift up the loaded back end and slip that under the bike and get it into position while the load is working against you... Could work, just seems like more work and bulk than its worth.

hey all,

i've heard the same from many bike stores: DO NOT INSTALL A KICKSTAND

Why not? I was looking to order a Pletchser two-leg kickstand for my Thorn Sherpa, but now I have been told by Thorn that "Voids Thorn frame warranty, may crush thin walled chainstays if the bike is heavily loaded or leaned on"

So can anyone suggest an alternative?

I recall seeing a prop pole or something? can anyone give me more info or a link please?

I have a Sherpa and I'll be mounting an ESGE double legged kickstand on it at some point. It may void the warranty, but it is quite useful and I doubt there will be a problem as long as you are reasonable when installing it. The mounting bolt doesn't need to be torqued down uber hard.

I called Surly when I was going to mount the same type of kickstand on my LHT they said it would be fine as long as I didn't get over enthusiastic and crush the frame when tightening the stand mounting bolt. So far the stand has see lots of use and there is no damage to my LHT.

Having a double legged kickstand permanently mounted to your touring bike is far superior to a single legged kickstand or the staff shown above for propping up your bike.

My next frame is going to have a kick stand on it, just because I have a cool idea for one. But overall I can't say I really ever needed one that badly, cool to have, maybe. Necesarry, hardly. I have a touring recumbent, and it has a really nice, well mounted kick stand weld-on, which does solve a number of problems.

Kickstands are great and centerstands even better. Thorn is just afraid you will overtighten the hardware and smash the tubes. Don't do that!

Why not?
1. In your case it voids your warranty.
2. Can't think of anyplace that I have ever been that I could not do without a kickstand.
Alternative:
Find a sign, wall, fence, building, etc. to lean the bike on.

if it cant serve two purposes i leave it behind.....

Why not?
1. In your case it voids your warranty.
2. Can't think of anyplace that I have ever been that I could not do without a kickstand.
Alternative:
Find a sign, wall, fence, building, etc. to lean the bike on.

On my recent tour in Baja there were many times when my bike on its centre stand was standing in up in the middle of nowhere while my touring partner's bike was laying down. It was particularly nice when the ground was sandy and her pedal was buried in the sand.

Having used my centre stand for a while now and on 3 tours I can emphatically say that there are lots of times when you have to go out of your way to find something to lean your bike against and often the leaned bike will fall over.

I was out for a ride recently with my GF and leaned my Sherpa up against a post while I looked at my GF's bike. She nudged the Sherpa by accident and down it went. I made a mental note to get the ESGE kickstand on her sooner rather than later.

The only downside to a kickstand is weight and I pack light for tours, but the usefulness justifies the weight for me before noon on the first day of the tour.

I've always been amazed that so many bicyclists have a thing against kick stands.

I've always been amazed that so many bicyclists have a thing against kick stands.

and fenders - two of the most practical bike accessories available!....:eek:

I use one of Tom's Click Stands with my commuter, it gets 20 pound plus loads regularly, and I really like it.

I have an ESGE double-legged kickstand on my LHT and it's awesome. I was probably pushing it but I've used the kickstand when the LHT was loaded with like 60 pounds of gear.

On my recent tour in Baja there were many times when my bike on its centre stand was standing in up in the middle of nowhere while my touring partner's bike was laying down. It was particularly nice when the ground was sandy and her pedal was buried in the sand.
I don't get it. If the ground was firm enough that your stand worked, why would her pedal be burried in the sand? Seems like if the sand was soft that a stand wouldn't work well.

I am not particularly opposed to a kick stand on someone else's bike, but never found them of much use either. If there is nothing to lean the bike against, I don't see anything wrong with laying it down. Different strokes I guess.

and fenders - two of the most practical bike accessories available!....:eek:
I don't see the corrolation. I don't see much use for a kick stand, but fenders are great.

I have a two-legged kickstand installed on my 520 when I purchased it last fall; I always thought it was a must-have item. After my mini-tour last week, I'm less certain now. There were plenty of occasions when I just lay the bike down. The loaded panniers kept the frame/components from being scratched, and I still had access to my bar bag.

I guess I was surprised that I could make do without something I had previously thought was essential.

I don't get it. If the ground was firm enough that your stand worked, why would her pedal be burried in the sand? Seems like if the sand was soft that a stand wouldn't work well.

I am not particularly opposed to a kick stand on someone else's bike, but never found them of much use either. If there is nothing to lean the bike against, I don't see anything wrong with laying it down. Different strokes I guess.

Ya well that's what's interesting a double legged kickstand sinks into the soft sand, but also keeps the bike upright at the same time - works in loose gravel and mud too.

Laying the bike down is fine - except that in sand you get sand into your pedal, you can't easily access all your panniers, if the area is wet or muddy you get your bike/panniers dirty.

Anyways as you said different strokes....:D

My first light tour I became annoyed with the twanging sound of the cheapo kickstand every time I hit a bump. Next tour I removed it ..and wished I hadn't. Leaning against something would occasionally allow bike to roll off and fall over. Laying it down on the right side means unknown weight and stress on the rear derailer. Laying it down on the left side screwed up the handlebar mirror.

Ya well that's what's interesting a double legged kickstand sinks into the soft sand, but also keeps the bike upright at the same time - works in loose gravel and mud too.
It sounds like a double legged kickstand is probably a lot more functional than a single legged one on soft surfaces. I will still pass though, since I have never used on and am unlikely to add the extra weight for something I am already used to doing without.

I will not knock anyone else who does otherwise though.

"Laying the bike down is fine - except that in sand you get sand into your pedal, you can't easily access all your panniers, if the area is wet or muddy you get your bike/panniers dirty."

That's a bit like fighting each new war as though it was the last war. You make excellent points for a tour in the desert... But in north america, outside of the deserts there are guard rails, architecture, and trees, in a lot of places. I might very well take your advice for Baha.

I think the main issue is how functional they are and how heavy. There are a number of ways of improving functionality while droping weight, convenience might be slightly sacrificed...

I do think that when people ask "what's the problem with kickstands" maybe Thorn's concerns bear some thinking through. Do we know that overtightening is the issue? What if when tightened properly, the loading is sufficient to damage the CSs by it'self. Maybe they know of cases where the torque on a single stand, or the bridging on a double was sufficient to damage the stays, not every time, but occasionally. Thorns are built for heavy use, to hold up when the 99.9% of the others have fallen off. What if the stand compormised that.1% of additional durability?

A kick stand length lever is sufficient to bend a .6mm wall tube, Sounds a lot like the jigs we bend the forks and stays with in the frame shop.

Well..........I suppose I could make a suggestion. It is called a Click-Stand. They fold to fit in a rack bag, and weigh about 70 grams. There are models that will support fully loaded touring bikes. The web site is: www.Click-Stand.com

Tom

http://users.techline.com/tomn/park_near_Bandon.jpg

Thank you, Tom. I think you are the guy I met a Seattle Bike Expo. I lost the card and forgot the name brand. I'll be ordering two of those soon.

BTW, didn't you have the anatomica treatment (perineal cut-out) done to your B17?

Hi JCM,

You did meet me at the Seattle Bike Expo! And I did send my Brooks Flyer to Selle An-Atomica to get the LD cut out added. So far I am still very happy with it. Just so you will know I am shutting the shop down in about a week. It will be closed for 6 weeks. Bad timing I know. All Click-Stands ordered before that will be shipped 3 days form order. No high pressure sales, but if you are going to order, get going!

Thanks,
Tom

if it cant serve two purposes i leave it behind.....

The second purpose of my ESGE two legged kickstand is to serve as a repair stand; it will support the bike while I remove a wheel to repair a flat, adjust derailers, or clean/oil the chain.

I'm 42 and I've never paid more than $3400 for a car. I have over $2000 in my LHT including panniers, so there are only three parts of that bike I want touching the ground: front tire, kickstand, & rear tire!:lol:

Hi JCM,

You did meet me at the Seattle Bike Expo! And I did send my Brooks Flyer to Selle An-Atomica to get the LD cut out added. So far I am still very happy with it. Just so you will know I am shutting the shop down in about a week. It will be closed for 6 weeks. Bad timing I know. All Click-Stands ordered before that will be shipped 3 days form order. No high pressure sales, but if you are going to order, get going!

Thanks,
Tom

Done deal. have a great time in Italy!

"Laying the bike down is fine - except that in sand you get sand into your pedal, you can't easily access all your panniers, if the area is wet or muddy you get your bike/panniers dirty."

That's a bit like fighting each new war as though it was the last war. You make excellent points for a tour in the desert... But in north america, outside of the deserts there are guard rails, architecture, and trees, in a lot of places. I might very well take your advice for Baha.

I think the main issue is how functional they are and how heavy. There are a number of ways of improving functionality while droping weight, convenience might be slightly sacrificed...

I do think that when people ask "what's the problem with kickstands" maybe Thorn's concerns bear some thinking through. Do we know that over tightening is the issue? What if when tightened properly, the loading is sufficient to damage the CSs by it'self. Maybe they know of cases where the torque on a single stand, or the bridging on a double was sufficient to damage the stays, not every time, but occasionally. Thorns are built for heavy use, to hold up when the 99.9% of the others have fallen off. What if the stand compormised that.1% of additional durability?

A kick stand length lever is sufficient to bend a .6mm wall tube, Sounds a lot like the jigs we bend the forks and stays with in the frame shop.

Well I have used that bike/kickstand in the boreal forest, Rocky Mountains and Canadian Prairies. Another example from my Icefields Parkway tour this past summer - I need to get out a sweater so I stop on the side of the road put bike on kickstand. Open pannier grab what I want close everything up again. By this time my touring partner has caught up and wants to get something out of her bags. She asks me to hold her bike while she roots around in her panniers. I joke that while I have a kickstand she has a Vik-stand. Funnily enough she now has a double legged kickstand on her touring bike. And to answer the obvious question - what about trees? Sure they were all along the route, but down a 5ft embankment and then a further 15-20ft from the road.

As for the damage to the frame. Tightening is the only way you could crush or damage a tube since you are able to use a long lever to turn the bolt. The kickstand is nearly vertical when deployed so it is not acting as a lever to bend the tube. If the weight of the bike and luggage would so easily damage the frame you'd have a lot of problems on tour as they load is static on the kickstand vs. the much greater dynamic loads of the bike, luggage and you when riding.

Personally I'll put the kickstand on my Thorn and not worry about it. If you are concerned by the warranty implications and/or don't see the value in a kickstand don't put one on.

The second purpose of my ESGE two legged kickstand is to serve as a repair stand; it will support the bike while I remove a wheel to repair a flat, adjust derailers, or clean/oil the chain.

I'm 42 and I've never paid more than $3400 for a car. I have over $2000 in my LHT including panniers, so there are only three parts of that bike I want touching the ground: front tire, kickstand, & rear tire!:lol:

Ooooh... good answer! Convinced me! But then I was leaning towards a kickstand in the first place (pun intended) :D