cyclinrunt
06-02-03, 01:15 PM
Who out there has tried both these bikes? I'm shopping, and my price range really fits the 2300 much more comfortably. My question is: is the 5200 really $700 more bike?!?
Road Cycling - Trek 5200 WSD vs Trek 2300 WSD
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06-02-03, 01:32 PM
I rode a 5200 non-WSD and it was like riding butter. If you are good enough to live up to a 5200, go for it. You don't want to get the 2300 and in 2 years feel like you have outgrown it.
lovemyswift
06-02-03, 06:12 PM
If you want a small carbon frame check out Aegis(www.aegisbicycles.com). Aegis frames are handmade in Maine. I bought the Swift 3 yrs ago and love it as much now as I did then. I bought the frame and fork from Aegis and put my Shimano 105 components on it from my Cannondale Compact. I had Mavic Open Pro wheels put on it and it cost me less than $2,000. My shop gave me a better price than the Aegis list price.
Last year, I upgraded the components to Campy Record, put a Specialities TA crankset on it and Deda 4 girls handlebars.
The Deda's are shortreach handlebars and they really dialed in my fit.
Even though I had a bike shop do the work, I was able to search for components that were right for me instead of what some company says is right. And it was fun building the bike to my specifications I was able to do that because I'd had experience with the Cannondale and I knew what I didn't like about the stock bike.
Also, I put a 51x38 chainrings on the front. I'm pretty small and lightweight and the 51 is less effort so I use my big chainring more.
I think it's interesting that Aegis came out with the Swift in 96 or 97 and that Trek is finally getting around to it.
I like Campy because it's more comfortable for my hands.
I built this bike to last a long time and I can't imagine wanting anything else.
After a 70 mi ride I have a big smile on my face, its such a joy to ride.
BTW, I have not ridden the Trek.
If your lightweight, small al. frames can be harsh after a while. I got tired of feeling the road shock on a long ride. Another reason for carbon. And in spite of what others say about carbon this bike does not feel dead. It is very responsive and lively!
Have fun shopping! Obviously, I think carbon is worth it!
Kathi
Last year, I upgraded the components to Campy Record, put a Specialities TA crankset on it and Deda 4 girls handlebars.
The Deda's are shortreach handlebars and they really dialed in my fit.
Even though I had a bike shop do the work, I was able to search for components that were right for me instead of what some company says is right. And it was fun building the bike to my specifications I was able to do that because I'd had experience with the Cannondale and I knew what I didn't like about the stock bike.
Also, I put a 51x38 chainrings on the front. I'm pretty small and lightweight and the 51 is less effort so I use my big chainring more.
I think it's interesting that Aegis came out with the Swift in 96 or 97 and that Trek is finally getting around to it.
I like Campy because it's more comfortable for my hands.
I built this bike to last a long time and I can't imagine wanting anything else.
After a 70 mi ride I have a big smile on my face, its such a joy to ride.
BTW, I have not ridden the Trek.
If your lightweight, small al. frames can be harsh after a while. I got tired of feeling the road shock on a long ride. Another reason for carbon. And in spite of what others say about carbon this bike does not feel dead. It is very responsive and lively!
Have fun shopping! Obviously, I think carbon is worth it!
Kathi
cyclinrunt
06-03-03, 07:05 AM
Wow, lovemyswift, you are light years beyond me. This will be my first bike in 15 years, and my first bike with STI shifters! You have given me some good things to consider. Actually, it might be a good reason to get the 2300, (which isn't shabby, it has a better alloy frame and ultegra components), and find out what I do and don't like about it, and then try to do something like what you did to upgrade, assuming my riding progresses like I hope. I don't have any components to add to a frame right now, and I don't think I can afford a full Swift right now, if the prices on the website are at all accurate.
The bike I am riding now (Trek) has a carbon body, but not fork. The guy at the LBS thinks that the 2300 alloy should be somewhat equivalent in shock absorbtion, esp since the fork will be carbon. It's hard to say, since my bike is so old. I just want something better, with updated technology! I'm tired of reaching down to shift gears all the time! The 5200 is really a stretch for my budget, esp considering I need a helmet, etc.
Thanks for your input!
The bike I am riding now (Trek) has a carbon body, but not fork. The guy at the LBS thinks that the 2300 alloy should be somewhat equivalent in shock absorbtion, esp since the fork will be carbon. It's hard to say, since my bike is so old. I just want something better, with updated technology! I'm tired of reaching down to shift gears all the time! The 5200 is really a stretch for my budget, esp considering I need a helmet, etc.
Thanks for your input!
Chi
06-03-03, 08:03 AM
Also keep in mind that the 5200 can be made a Project One bike, which means you can get a really nice paint job to go with it, as opposed to the 2300 for example. Also, ride quality is different, I'm sure, because the 2300's ZR9000 aluminum is still aluminum, and that means a little stiffer and less shock absorption from the rear stays.
Have you looked at Giant TCR road bikes? some of theirs have aluminum frames with carbon stays and forks. Not sure how much they are, but I don't think they're much more than the 2300.
Just remember, get something you like and fits you.
Have you looked at Giant TCR road bikes? some of theirs have aluminum frames with carbon stays and forks. Not sure how much they are, but I don't think they're much more than the 2300.
Just remember, get something you like and fits you.
spexy
06-03-03, 10:52 AM
5200!!!!!!!
lovemyswift
06-03-03, 06:32 PM
Small women today are so lucky. 20+ yrs ago when I bought my first road bike it was a Fuji Royale mixte frame. I had to use that frame instead of a triad frame because there was nothing small enough. We didn't wear helmets, cycling shorts, shoes or gloves. We'd try to ride 40 or 50 miles without any training whatsoever. I was thinking of giving up cycling, long rides weren't fun, then Cannondale came out with a compact frame. That was 1995. I thought I was in heaven. There was no internet, so I had to call Cannondale direct to find shops in my area that carried the bike. I found one at a shop about an hour away. Most of the shops here did not know about the bike.
The LBS had a contest and given a compact away as the prize. Since they didn't have one my size in the store they called the winner and had her bring it back so I could try it. I was in seventh heaven. I didn't know then that the frame was a tad to big for me and I should have had the 45cm instead of the 47cm.
I was thrilled to death with that bike, however, the more I rode it the more I realized that I couldn't handle the road shock. So I put a carbon fork on it. But as my yearly mileage increased I felt I had outgrown the bike and was on a search for something new. (My mileage increased from 500 mi per year to close to 3,000 a year)
The minute I got on the Aegis I knew I had to have it. It was such a smooth ride and a good little climber too. I'm still in love with it.
My Cannondale has been rebuilt for a year but I have no desire to even see how it rides. So its set up on the trainer.
Which brings up some new questions. What kind of riding are doing and what are the roads like that you ride? If your planning on doing distance or the roads are pretty rough I'd fork out the money and get the carbon. However, you might be right, at this point you may not know the difference.
You should also look at Lemond, I've heard good things about their steel frames, the price would buy you time to figure out what you really want and you'd have the best of both worlds.
Also, I hear Lemond frames are good enough to upgrade to better components.
It's interesting that aluminum frames aren't exactly the best for small riders but that's what the big companies like Trek and Cannondale try to push on us.
Good luck on your search.
Kathi
The LBS had a contest and given a compact away as the prize. Since they didn't have one my size in the store they called the winner and had her bring it back so I could try it. I was in seventh heaven. I didn't know then that the frame was a tad to big for me and I should have had the 45cm instead of the 47cm.
I was thrilled to death with that bike, however, the more I rode it the more I realized that I couldn't handle the road shock. So I put a carbon fork on it. But as my yearly mileage increased I felt I had outgrown the bike and was on a search for something new. (My mileage increased from 500 mi per year to close to 3,000 a year)
The minute I got on the Aegis I knew I had to have it. It was such a smooth ride and a good little climber too. I'm still in love with it.
My Cannondale has been rebuilt for a year but I have no desire to even see how it rides. So its set up on the trainer.
Which brings up some new questions. What kind of riding are doing and what are the roads like that you ride? If your planning on doing distance or the roads are pretty rough I'd fork out the money and get the carbon. However, you might be right, at this point you may not know the difference.
You should also look at Lemond, I've heard good things about their steel frames, the price would buy you time to figure out what you really want and you'd have the best of both worlds.
Also, I hear Lemond frames are good enough to upgrade to better components.
It's interesting that aluminum frames aren't exactly the best for small riders but that's what the big companies like Trek and Cannondale try to push on us.
Good luck on your search.
Kathi
cyclinrunt
06-03-03, 08:59 PM
You know, in addition to being a stretch in affordability, the more I look at it, the 5200 is a different geometry - more aggressive, more responsive. This is a good thing if one is a good rider. I've been on the bike 7-8 weeks now, and I've had minor bungles twice. Perhaps stability is a more important quality for me at this time. I've been studying ETT length, chainstay length, seat angles, etc and I'm nearly exhausted! There is one Cannondale in my town that I got to ride, and a Trek in a town 1.5 hr away. They got me on a Litespeed (titanium frame), and it was a great frame, but I thought I'd wreck it, it was so big! They were so disparaging about the WSD, that I had to beg to ride the Trek I came in to see. I had a hard time convincing them that I knew how a bike fit when it was too big, I had been riding one for years! They tried to get me on bikes I had no standover clearance on!
I did learn that I love titanium and Ultegra components. That's why I decided the 2300 would be better for me than the 2200. I has a better Al alloy, too.
On the Trek WSD, I felt more aggressive and confident that I ever have. I notice that the Aegis has less standover clearance, and I don't think I'll fit it well. I have short legs and arms.
Like I said, I'm just starting out. I'm rotating running, swimming and cycling, so I'm riding twice a week, from 10 - 20 miles each time. I'm on rolling country roads. Currently I ride a 15 yr old Trek without STI shifters, a carbon body, and aluminum fork and headset, etc. I just got my first clipless pedals.
It sure would be nice to get a sweet paint job instead of that 2300 blue. I'd love to have the carbon body, too. I don't have the opportunity to try any other brands of bike, and I'm afraid to order something I've never been on.
I'm just not sure if I'm enough of a rider to handle the 5200 well, and I'd rather be a little slower than afraid. I'm still learning to corner, climb, etc well. Heck, I need a decent helmet!
What if they have a women's titanium frame in a few years, and I can move my ultegra components from the 2300 onto that frame? Wouldn't that be sweet?
Obviously, I'm torn. I wish I could easily spend the money on the 5200. Is it really $700 more bike?
I did learn that I love titanium and Ultegra components. That's why I decided the 2300 would be better for me than the 2200. I has a better Al alloy, too.
On the Trek WSD, I felt more aggressive and confident that I ever have. I notice that the Aegis has less standover clearance, and I don't think I'll fit it well. I have short legs and arms.
Like I said, I'm just starting out. I'm rotating running, swimming and cycling, so I'm riding twice a week, from 10 - 20 miles each time. I'm on rolling country roads. Currently I ride a 15 yr old Trek without STI shifters, a carbon body, and aluminum fork and headset, etc. I just got my first clipless pedals.
It sure would be nice to get a sweet paint job instead of that 2300 blue. I'd love to have the carbon body, too. I don't have the opportunity to try any other brands of bike, and I'm afraid to order something I've never been on.
I'm just not sure if I'm enough of a rider to handle the 5200 well, and I'd rather be a little slower than afraid. I'm still learning to corner, climb, etc well. Heck, I need a decent helmet!
What if they have a women's titanium frame in a few years, and I can move my ultegra components from the 2300 onto that frame? Wouldn't that be sweet?
Obviously, I'm torn. I wish I could easily spend the money on the 5200. Is it really $700 more bike?
Chi
06-03-03, 09:42 PM
It's all about that composite material called Carbon Fiber :D
bac
06-04-03, 07:04 AM
Originally posted by cyclinrunt
It sure would be nice to get a sweet paint job instead of that 2300 blue. I'd love to have the carbon body, too.
Attached is the "retro" Project-1 paint job on my 5200. Come on - you know you want the OCLV! :)
It sure would be nice to get a sweet paint job instead of that 2300 blue. I'd love to have the carbon body, too.
Attached is the "retro" Project-1 paint job on my 5200. Come on - you know you want the OCLV! :)
cyclinrunt
06-04-03, 12:58 PM
You guys are killin' me! Putting that pic in was just dirty! You know I want it!! I wish we lived close enough that I could try that gorgeous bike out. I'll bet that would ruin me for sure.
I had nearly talked myself into the 2300 (see above). You guys have given me pause. Don't know where I'll get the $$$ for it, though. May just have to wait awhile.
Any comments comparing these two bikes to the Cannondale R800 Feminine and R2000 Feminine? No carbon in either of those, mind you....
I had nearly talked myself into the 2300 (see above). You guys have given me pause. Don't know where I'll get the $$$ for it, though. May just have to wait awhile.
Any comments comparing these two bikes to the Cannondale R800 Feminine and R2000 Feminine? No carbon in either of those, mind you....
lovemyswift
06-04-03, 02:19 PM
Believe you me I totally understand what its like to ride bikes that don't fit. The fuji didn't fit, the Cannondale was slightly too big, and the year before I bought the Cannondale Compact (Feminine) I bought a Cannondale R400, 48 cm that was too big.
I was thinking the same thing about living closer so you could try my bikes.
I looked at the specs for the 5200. How well does that bike fit you? Does it have 700c or 650c wheels? If its a little bigger maybe that why you don't feel as aggressive on it. No matter what material you like fit is no. 1.
I imagine since I bought my R800 they've improved on the aluminum. Even men who had that frame says its a beater bike. But it's 1995 vintage.
For reference, I'm 5'2, weigh 106lbs, and have a 27" inseam. So aluminum is really harsh for me. I ride a 44cm Swift and have plenty of clearance.
Funny when I first saw the specs. on the 5200 I was thinking it would be too big for me. However, bike companies measure their frames differently so its hard to tell sometimes whether or not a bike fits.
Also, it sounds like the bike shops aren't giving you much help on fit. My LBS was very particular about the fit of my bike.
Good luck, I know exactly what you're going thru.
Kathi
I was thinking the same thing about living closer so you could try my bikes.
I looked at the specs for the 5200. How well does that bike fit you? Does it have 700c or 650c wheels? If its a little bigger maybe that why you don't feel as aggressive on it. No matter what material you like fit is no. 1.
I imagine since I bought my R800 they've improved on the aluminum. Even men who had that frame says its a beater bike. But it's 1995 vintage.
For reference, I'm 5'2, weigh 106lbs, and have a 27" inseam. So aluminum is really harsh for me. I ride a 44cm Swift and have plenty of clearance.
Funny when I first saw the specs. on the 5200 I was thinking it would be too big for me. However, bike companies measure their frames differently so its hard to tell sometimes whether or not a bike fits.
Also, it sounds like the bike shops aren't giving you much help on fit. My LBS was very particular about the fit of my bike.
Good luck, I know exactly what you're going thru.
Kathi
KnightWhoSaysNi
06-04-03, 02:20 PM
Chi, what is your opinion of the spotted cow (http://projectone.trekbikes.com/options/larger.asp?image=../images/paint/large/spotted_cow_lg.jpg) finish?
lovemyswift
06-04-03, 03:51 PM
Wylder has their Queen of the Road Ti frames on closeout for $749. Don't know what sizes they have left. Heard these are really nice bikes.
Just food for thought.
Kathi
Just food for thought.
Kathi
Joycily
06-04-03, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by lovemyswift
Wylder has their Queen of the Road Ti frames on closeout for $749. Don't know what sizes they have left. Heard these are really nice bikes.
Just food for thought.
Kathi
It's a pretty good thought. I tried out the Queen of the Road when I was bike shopping last summer and I really liked the ride and fit. It was very responsive without being harsh. For reference, that day I also tried out a Specialized Allez (too harsh, but very snappy), and a Kestrel Talon (felt...oddly...muted...).
Of course at the time the Queen of the Road frame wasn't on closeout and was much more expensive. It wasn't *that* much more different than a Seven, so I caved and went for the Seven since it doesn't cost extra to get it customized.
But the Queen of the Road is a fabulous frame, if you like Ti.
-j
Wylder has their Queen of the Road Ti frames on closeout for $749. Don't know what sizes they have left. Heard these are really nice bikes.
Just food for thought.
Kathi
It's a pretty good thought. I tried out the Queen of the Road when I was bike shopping last summer and I really liked the ride and fit. It was very responsive without being harsh. For reference, that day I also tried out a Specialized Allez (too harsh, but very snappy), and a Kestrel Talon (felt...oddly...muted...).
Of course at the time the Queen of the Road frame wasn't on closeout and was much more expensive. It wasn't *that* much more different than a Seven, so I caved and went for the Seven since it doesn't cost extra to get it customized.
But the Queen of the Road is a fabulous frame, if you like Ti.
-j
ParamountScapin
06-04-03, 05:31 PM
If you are currently riding a Trek compsite frame, it is most likely still a very nice bike. Why not just put a carbon fork on the front (you can get online from Performance Bike and others (eBay - I got one for $80 and it is great)) and a new headset and some STI shifters (105 or Ultegra) and have you LBS put on for you. For under $500 you will transform your bike and be ready to roll. Or go whole hog and get a new Centaur or better Campy group and some updated wheels to go with your new carbon fork. You might be very surprised what a nice ride you now have with a new group and wheels. Older composite Treks with lugged joints are really nice bikes.
bac
06-04-03, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by KnightWhoSaysNi
Chi, what is your opinion of the spotted cow (http://projectone.trekbikes.com/options/larger.asp?image=../images/paint/large/spotted_cow_lg.jpg) finish?
That is toooooooo cooooool!!!
Chi, what is your opinion of the spotted cow (http://projectone.trekbikes.com/options/larger.asp?image=../images/paint/large/spotted_cow_lg.jpg) finish?
That is toooooooo cooooool!!!
cyclinrunt
06-04-03, 08:37 PM
Those Wylder frame do look nice, and I do like Ti. How on earth do I know if it fits me, or if I like it?!? It would be so much easier if I were an average sized man, and could jump on my buddies' bikes, and had a huge variety at the bike shop! I've never been on the 5200!! How do I find out what I like?
I can work things out on paper, but I have no experience to back it up with. I sure don't want another bike that doesn't fit right. In another post, someone said newbies usually feel like an appropriate sized bike feels too big, but you get used to it, so should I trust myself if I even get to get on a bike?
Here is the basic rhetorical question that is driving me crazy:
Should I
1. By a good basic bike (eg 2300), learn how to ride better, see how much I ride, and then upgrade, maybe move my components to another frame? That would risk wasting money by having to repurchase soon.
or
2. By what I think I want now (5200, or something else that sounds good, but I don't get the chance to ride), and risk that it isn't quite what I end up needing or using?
It's a risk either way.
Thank you, BTW, for allowing me to let you into my insanity. You have all been so helpful to me, and offered so many great ideas. I really appreciate it, I could not have come up with these ideas myself! Keep 'em coming!
And, I played with the Project One idea, and definately: yellow, with black writing and pinstripes. (Can't afford it, though!)
:dance:
I need a new bike,
One that won't get me hurt,
One with great components,
And a sharp looking paint job......
:D
I can work things out on paper, but I have no experience to back it up with. I sure don't want another bike that doesn't fit right. In another post, someone said newbies usually feel like an appropriate sized bike feels too big, but you get used to it, so should I trust myself if I even get to get on a bike?
Here is the basic rhetorical question that is driving me crazy:
Should I
1. By a good basic bike (eg 2300), learn how to ride better, see how much I ride, and then upgrade, maybe move my components to another frame? That would risk wasting money by having to repurchase soon.
or
2. By what I think I want now (5200, or something else that sounds good, but I don't get the chance to ride), and risk that it isn't quite what I end up needing or using?
It's a risk either way.
Thank you, BTW, for allowing me to let you into my insanity. You have all been so helpful to me, and offered so many great ideas. I really appreciate it, I could not have come up with these ideas myself! Keep 'em coming!
And, I played with the Project One idea, and definately: yellow, with black writing and pinstripes. (Can't afford it, though!)
:dance:
I need a new bike,
One that won't get me hurt,
One with great components,
And a sharp looking paint job......
:D
Joycily
06-04-03, 10:41 PM
It really sounds like you want the 5200. *grin* Some other ways to think about it that might just even drive you crazier..
1. If you got the 2300, would spending $700 be enough to upgrade it to something similar to the 5200 in the future?
2. If you got the 5200, you can always sell it if it doesn't work out for you. Speaking of which, what's the return policy?
3. This is something I have learned about myself over the years - it may not work for you. I find that when I want to really get into something, and I want it bad, I will stick to the new something (and love it) if I have fabulous equipment. Harp - I didn't really start enjoying playing until I got a Really Nice New Harp(tm) - one that sings. I love it. It motivated me to play and to learn. Same with cycling - my old bike was just...old...and...wrong...somehow and I got so turned off by it that I did not bike for years. My husband encouraged me to get a Really Nice New Bike(tm), and BOY has it motivated me to ride! I fell in love with cycling with that bike.
FIT is super important though. Will your LBS be good about measuring you carefully, ordering the right bike, and fitting you to it when it arrives? What is the return policy on the 5200?
-j
1. If you got the 2300, would spending $700 be enough to upgrade it to something similar to the 5200 in the future?
2. If you got the 5200, you can always sell it if it doesn't work out for you. Speaking of which, what's the return policy?
3. This is something I have learned about myself over the years - it may not work for you. I find that when I want to really get into something, and I want it bad, I will stick to the new something (and love it) if I have fabulous equipment. Harp - I didn't really start enjoying playing until I got a Really Nice New Harp(tm) - one that sings. I love it. It motivated me to play and to learn. Same with cycling - my old bike was just...old...and...wrong...somehow and I got so turned off by it that I did not bike for years. My husband encouraged me to get a Really Nice New Bike(tm), and BOY has it motivated me to ride! I fell in love with cycling with that bike.
FIT is super important though. Will your LBS be good about measuring you carefully, ordering the right bike, and fitting you to it when it arrives? What is the return policy on the 5200?
-j
MichaelW
06-05-03, 03:52 AM
If you are uncertain as to which size fits you, then you really need some help. Inexperienced bike shops wont be much use, they just apply some fitting formula naively, you need a good shop, with experience outside the "normal" average male racer style.
Can you find a shop with a decent fitting system. Serotta-trained people are usually good. You need to get yourself onto a fitting bike as used by better frame-builders , this is a framework with movable saddle and bars, for establishing the correct dimensions of a bike.
If you supply a state ot city, someone could probably suggest a knowledgeable shop.
Can you find a shop with a decent fitting system. Serotta-trained people are usually good. You need to get yourself onto a fitting bike as used by better frame-builders , this is a framework with movable saddle and bars, for establishing the correct dimensions of a bike.
If you supply a state ot city, someone could probably suggest a knowledgeable shop.
lovemyswift
06-05-03, 03:26 PM
I agree with Michael. Fit is the most important consideration. From your description of the differences between the 2 bikes it sounds like the 2300 fit better.
If the bike doesn't fit you will never be satisfied with it no matter what the colors are or the fame material.
A good bike shop should be able to help you with the fit of the Wylder. My LBS figured out the fit on the Aegis and ordered it for me. I would not have ordered the Aegis without their help.
I don't know if this makes sense but I read on another web site that a well fitting bike should disappear underneath you. That your not even aware that its there.
Kathi
If the bike doesn't fit you will never be satisfied with it no matter what the colors are or the fame material.
A good bike shop should be able to help you with the fit of the Wylder. My LBS figured out the fit on the Aegis and ordered it for me. I would not have ordered the Aegis without their help.
I don't know if this makes sense but I read on another web site that a well fitting bike should disappear underneath you. That your not even aware that its there.
Kathi
cyclinrunt
06-06-03, 06:31 AM
My LBS measured my inseam length only for frame size. I have used some info in the book "Zinn and the Art of Road Bike Maintenance" to try to size myself better. I am really interested in the "fitting bike". I live in Cookeville, Tn (where in the world is that??!? It's halfway between Nashville and Knoxville). I think my LBS is getting worn out by my questions - I want to learn everything about geometry to know what's best. The website www.wrenchscience.com seems to have a neat system, I'll try it, too, when my husband can help me out.
I have been comparing my ideal lengths (as described in Zinn) on different bikes, and of course, none of them fit perfectly. It is all so theoretical, and I wish I had someone with experience to help me through it. I don't think anyone else in town thinks quite so theoretically, and it drives them nuts. (I'm in Cookeville, remember? Small town.) But many of my assumptions about the 5200 and 2300 are theory. You guys have been more help than I have gotten anywhere. I'm really grateful.
I have been comparing my ideal lengths (as described in Zinn) on different bikes, and of course, none of them fit perfectly. It is all so theoretical, and I wish I had someone with experience to help me through it. I don't think anyone else in town thinks quite so theoretically, and it drives them nuts. (I'm in Cookeville, remember? Small town.) But many of my assumptions about the 5200 and 2300 are theory. You guys have been more help than I have gotten anywhere. I'm really grateful.
cyclinrunt
06-06-03, 08:23 AM
You know, love my swift, it is too bad we don't live closer, we are close in size! I am around 5'3", 114#, 28.75" inseam.
MichaelW
06-06-03, 09:12 AM
There is a fitting frame illustrated
http://www.serotta.com/pages/size.html
TN really is bike shop wilderness. Henryjames (the steel frame-builders supplier) and serotta (fine custom frames) dont have any dealers or builders in your state.
If you have sucked your LBS dry for info, then leave them in peace for now (puleese).Maybe you should have a word with your shop's TREK company rep. The rep should be able to get a WSD for a test ride.
http://www.serotta.com/pages/size.html
TN really is bike shop wilderness. Henryjames (the steel frame-builders supplier) and serotta (fine custom frames) dont have any dealers or builders in your state.
If you have sucked your LBS dry for info, then leave them in peace for now (puleese).Maybe you should have a word with your shop's TREK company rep. The rep should be able to get a WSD for a test ride.
Chi
06-06-03, 09:25 AM
Originally posted by KnightWhoSaysNi
Chi, what is your opinion of the spotted cow (http://projectone.trekbikes.com/options/larger.asp?image=../images/paint/large/spotted_cow_lg.jpg) finish?
I LOVE cows!! If I ever get the cash to buy a real road bike, I think I might go with that design. :D
Chi, what is your opinion of the spotted cow (http://projectone.trekbikes.com/options/larger.asp?image=../images/paint/large/spotted_cow_lg.jpg) finish?
I LOVE cows!! If I ever get the cash to buy a real road bike, I think I might go with that design. :D
cyclinrunt
06-06-03, 09:57 AM
Yeah, I'm trying to just leave them alone. I just called 9 bike shops within a 2 hour radius. I found 3 bikes I could test ride (at all ends of the earth): 2 Trek 2000, one Specialized Allez Dolce. I did find one place with the Fit Cycle, so I could make the trip to try that out, could help me guess what works. Very discouraging.
It does feel weird going to someone else to be fitted, and then ordering from my LBS, but I do feel like they have earned my business, and I will want service from them. They don't have the Fit Cycle.
It does feel weird going to someone else to be fitted, and then ordering from my LBS, but I do feel like they have earned my business, and I will want service from them. They don't have the Fit Cycle.
lovemyswift
06-06-03, 10:31 AM
I have a friend in Knoxville who rides. I could find out what shop he uses.
You're not that far from Cincinnati are you? 5 or 6 hrs. It might be worth a trip here. One of our shops has a woman owner and does the Serotta fittings. You could also contact the shops first to see if its worth the time and effort.
I saw the Lemond WSD and it looked pretty nice. I was tempted to do a test ride but I wasn't dressed properly.
I also found out that Salsa is coming out with a WSD road bike next year. I was talking to a woman in a different shop and her son is an engineer for Salsa so she got the protype. She loves it. It is aluminum but has carbon forks and seat stays.
I know what your going through. When I bought the Cannondale I was going to go as far as I needed to get it. I don't remember how many places I called before I found it.
Kathi
You're not that far from Cincinnati are you? 5 or 6 hrs. It might be worth a trip here. One of our shops has a woman owner and does the Serotta fittings. You could also contact the shops first to see if its worth the time and effort.
I saw the Lemond WSD and it looked pretty nice. I was tempted to do a test ride but I wasn't dressed properly.
I also found out that Salsa is coming out with a WSD road bike next year. I was talking to a woman in a different shop and her son is an engineer for Salsa so she got the protype. She loves it. It is aluminum but has carbon forks and seat stays.
I know what your going through. When I bought the Cannondale I was going to go as far as I needed to get it. I don't remember how many places I called before I found it.
Kathi
MichaelW
06-06-03, 10:50 AM
A word about fitting bikes. They usually have 170mm cranks fitted. If you want shorter ones (and you should do), ensure they are replaced.
Im sure you can work out that 165mm cranks will position your feet in [x,y] differently to 170mm, in relation to the bottom bracket. Specifically, you will need to raise your saddle by 5mm and move it back by a little less.
If you want some advice on correct crank size for your legs, there is no definitive answer, but suggest you read
http://www.myra-simon.com/bike/cranks.html
and
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm
same goes for handlebar width, you should be using smaller than the std 142mm width.
Im sure you can work out that 165mm cranks will position your feet in [x,y] differently to 170mm, in relation to the bottom bracket. Specifically, you will need to raise your saddle by 5mm and move it back by a little less.
If you want some advice on correct crank size for your legs, there is no definitive answer, but suggest you read
http://www.myra-simon.com/bike/cranks.html
and
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm
same goes for handlebar width, you should be using smaller than the std 142mm width.
cyclinrunt
06-06-03, 05:20 PM
I'VE ORDERED A BIKE!!!
I finally got to the end of my rope this morning. I just couldn't stand it, after calling 9 bike shops, and realizing that I would never have more personal experience to base my decision on, so I used the experience shared with me in this forum, and I ordered.......
THE 5200!!
You know I would, didn't you? I ordered the base color, but in the 2004 version, which is now available for the same price. It's the same bike, with the black base, and white lettering and trim, and red accents. I can't wait! It would have been fun to do the Project One thing, but I've already blown the budget, and I'd rather have the bucks in the ride.
Thanks to ALL of you, for being my sounding board, for offering advice, and even sending me PM (thanks, love my swift, you confirmed my decision).
Early next week......
I finally got to the end of my rope this morning. I just couldn't stand it, after calling 9 bike shops, and realizing that I would never have more personal experience to base my decision on, so I used the experience shared with me in this forum, and I ordered.......
THE 5200!!
You know I would, didn't you? I ordered the base color, but in the 2004 version, which is now available for the same price. It's the same bike, with the black base, and white lettering and trim, and red accents. I can't wait! It would have been fun to do the Project One thing, but I've already blown the budget, and I'd rather have the bucks in the ride.
Thanks to ALL of you, for being my sounding board, for offering advice, and even sending me PM (thanks, love my swift, you confirmed my decision).
Early next week......
bac
06-06-03, 06:53 PM
Originally posted by cyclinrunt
I'VE ORDERED A BIKE!!!
THE 5200!!
You will soon be smiling ... and smiling ... and smiling. Congrats!!!!!! :)
I'VE ORDERED A BIKE!!!
THE 5200!!
You will soon be smiling ... and smiling ... and smiling. Congrats!!!!!! :)
Resident
06-06-03, 07:31 PM
WOW! I was online this morning, and a decision wasn't made then - good choice!! I did some research, and realized that both bikes have virtually the same geometry. I have a 5500 (same frame) and can't get enough of it! Congrats!:thumbup:
lovemyswift
06-06-03, 08:37 PM
Yeah! Congradulations. Glad I could help!
When do you get it?
Kathi
When do you get it?
Kathi
Joycily
06-06-03, 10:15 PM
Woo hoo!!! whenwhenwhenwhen??? And please post pics of your new pride and joy when it arrives...we all can't wait!
*grin*
Congrats on the decision! I am sure you will be in love.
*grin*
Congrats on the decision! I am sure you will be in love.
cyclinrunt
06-07-03, 06:17 PM
Early next week, Monday or Tuesday, with any luck! I'm so excited and feel really good about my decision.
I'm not sure how to post a picture, but I will try to figure it out. I can't wait to share!!
Thanks again, and thanks for all the congrats!
I'm not sure how to post a picture, but I will try to figure it out. I can't wait to share!!
Thanks again, and thanks for all the congrats!
Chi
06-07-03, 10:13 PM
YAY!!!! If you see a purple MTB on the road with slickies, wave! :D
cyclinrunt
06-14-03, 09:39 AM
I got it yesterday!! I'll try to attach a picture, we'll see if it works.
I had a time getting it home, they called from the lbs yesterday morning, and wanted to know if I wanted a Flight Deck computer put on it (I said why not, at this point!) It wasn't ready when I went by, and the back tire blew out when they inflated it, so I went back again when I could after hours to pick it up. I put it on the bike rack, and when I got home with it, the tire blew out again before I took it off the rack!! (No, it isn't close to the exhaust) I called them, and they had me bring it back to replace the tire and tube (down to 1 650 tube in the shop), but by the time I got home again, it was too dark to ride. I got up early this morning, and the minute I walked outside in my bike clothes, it dumped rain! Only on my house, and next door, apparently, and it finally stopped, so I just had my first ride!!
Smooth, smooth, smooth. Love it! I'll have to do a lot of adjusting to make it fit me right, I think the saddle will have to go - lots of crotch pressure and some pain in my right glute near the nerve. I really like cutout seats, so I may try the Butterfly. I'd hate to put my old clunky saddle on this beautiful bike. I may go for a shorter stem, but not until I see whether the saddle change will help.
I was surprised that the crank arms are no shorter. I thought they would be on the WSD. I love the STI shifters!! I'll have to practice, since I have to trim when I move from the small to the medium chainring.
Isn't it a beauty??!?
I had a time getting it home, they called from the lbs yesterday morning, and wanted to know if I wanted a Flight Deck computer put on it (I said why not, at this point!) It wasn't ready when I went by, and the back tire blew out when they inflated it, so I went back again when I could after hours to pick it up. I put it on the bike rack, and when I got home with it, the tire blew out again before I took it off the rack!! (No, it isn't close to the exhaust) I called them, and they had me bring it back to replace the tire and tube (down to 1 650 tube in the shop), but by the time I got home again, it was too dark to ride. I got up early this morning, and the minute I walked outside in my bike clothes, it dumped rain! Only on my house, and next door, apparently, and it finally stopped, so I just had my first ride!!
Smooth, smooth, smooth. Love it! I'll have to do a lot of adjusting to make it fit me right, I think the saddle will have to go - lots of crotch pressure and some pain in my right glute near the nerve. I really like cutout seats, so I may try the Butterfly. I'd hate to put my old clunky saddle on this beautiful bike. I may go for a shorter stem, but not until I see whether the saddle change will help.
I was surprised that the crank arms are no shorter. I thought they would be on the WSD. I love the STI shifters!! I'll have to practice, since I have to trim when I move from the small to the medium chainring.
Isn't it a beauty??!?
Joycily
06-14-03, 10:07 AM
SHINY!!! Wow...what a beauty! Now I've got bike lust again...*wry grin*
Just an observation - looks like the nose of your saddle is tilted a bit upwards. Maybe levelling out the saddle will help a little until you can get the saddle you want.
Did/Will your shop spend time fitting you to the bike?
Congratulations on a BEAUTIFUL bike! Wow!
Just an observation - looks like the nose of your saddle is tilted a bit upwards. Maybe levelling out the saddle will help a little until you can get the saddle you want.
Did/Will your shop spend time fitting you to the bike?
Congratulations on a BEAUTIFUL bike! Wow!
bac
06-14-03, 12:27 PM
Wow - what a great looking scoot! Yup, as I did, you'll be doing some minor adjustments with the seatpost height, the seatpost angle, and the bars. Once you get it right, you will meld with the machine.
Congrats on the new ride!
Congrats on the new ride!
cyclinrunt
06-14-03, 05:24 PM
My lbs seems to leave most of the adjusting to me. They helped with some initial stuff (and tilted the seat tip up, plus had it higher than I like), I think they like to put people in a really aggressive position, or imagine I'm bigger, or something.
Anyway, they want me to return at the beginning of next week to work more of the quirks out of the bike after some riding, and let them know what I think doesn't feel right. I guess it makes sense, I may well not like to be fit "by the book" anyway, but it would be nice to measure it all out from the beginning, and go from there, since I don't always know what I need to do to make something more comfortable. They are of the school to go by what things feel like, not by how they measure.
They'll have me back in every week or two after that to adjust it as the cables stretch, so I'll be in there to fuss about whatever is bugging me. They think I'm mightly particular, but, oh well.
Anyway, they want me to return at the beginning of next week to work more of the quirks out of the bike after some riding, and let them know what I think doesn't feel right. I guess it makes sense, I may well not like to be fit "by the book" anyway, but it would be nice to measure it all out from the beginning, and go from there, since I don't always know what I need to do to make something more comfortable. They are of the school to go by what things feel like, not by how they measure.
They'll have me back in every week or two after that to adjust it as the cables stretch, so I'll be in there to fuss about whatever is bugging me. They think I'm mightly particular, but, oh well.
lovemyswift
06-14-03, 07:14 PM
It could be that Shimano does not make a 165 crankarm in an Ultregra crankset.
Someone can prove me wrong, however, when I upgraded my bike from Shimano 105 to Campy I was planning to do Campy Chorus, however, I was told that Campy does not make a 165 crankarm and the only thing I could do was to mix Shimano Dura-Ace with Campy Record. And it had to be a Dura-Ace, Record combination, which might mean there is no Ultregra 165 crankarm. The LBS was advised that would work. And they specified Dura-ace not Ultregra.
So, though this forum I found out about the company Specialities TA which was compatible with Campy. So I got a 165 Specialities TA crankset and stayed with Campy record. I'm glad I did.
If it works for you don't change it now. But it you notice knee problems then I would definitely go this route.
Glad you like the bike. A good fitting bike is so awesome and such a joy to ride!
Kathi
Someone can prove me wrong, however, when I upgraded my bike from Shimano 105 to Campy I was planning to do Campy Chorus, however, I was told that Campy does not make a 165 crankarm and the only thing I could do was to mix Shimano Dura-Ace with Campy Record. And it had to be a Dura-Ace, Record combination, which might mean there is no Ultregra 165 crankarm. The LBS was advised that would work. And they specified Dura-ace not Ultregra.
So, though this forum I found out about the company Specialities TA which was compatible with Campy. So I got a 165 Specialities TA crankset and stayed with Campy record. I'm glad I did.
If it works for you don't change it now. But it you notice knee problems then I would definitely go this route.
Glad you like the bike. A good fitting bike is so awesome and such a joy to ride!
Kathi
cyclinrunt
06-15-03, 04:51 AM
No, I think I measured the crankarms wrong. Measure from the center of each pivot point, correct? If so, they are 165mm, and my last ones were 170mm. Point of newbieness.
I put my cheap, soft, big butted seat on it last night (doesn't do much for its looks), and I instantly feel better on the bike. As long as the saddle that came with the bike was on there, I was going to hump up my back and refuse to reach out to the handlebars! I found an article at www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm that has some good rec's on fitting, so I'll try that today or tomorrow. I can't wait to get everything just so!
I am already completely ruined by the STI shifters. I will never be able to go back to downtube shifters! They are more logical to me, and easier to use.
I'm still trying to figure out the Flight Deck computer, I apparently got the wrong manual, so there is some trial and error. There are no directions on starting it up!
How many of you name your bikes? Now that I have 2, it seems appropriate. She's definately female!
I put my cheap, soft, big butted seat on it last night (doesn't do much for its looks), and I instantly feel better on the bike. As long as the saddle that came with the bike was on there, I was going to hump up my back and refuse to reach out to the handlebars! I found an article at www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm that has some good rec's on fitting, so I'll try that today or tomorrow. I can't wait to get everything just so!
I am already completely ruined by the STI shifters. I will never be able to go back to downtube shifters! They are more logical to me, and easier to use.
I'm still trying to figure out the Flight Deck computer, I apparently got the wrong manual, so there is some trial and error. There are no directions on starting it up!
How many of you name your bikes? Now that I have 2, it seems appropriate. She's definately female!
Joycily
06-15-03, 01:56 PM
Glad you feel better on the bike. :)
*grin* My road bike's name is Serenity. My recumbent has yet to tell me his/her name yet...
*grin* My road bike's name is Serenity. My recumbent has yet to tell me his/her name yet...
lovemyswift
06-15-03, 03:00 PM
The length of the crankarm in stamped on the inside of the crankarm. That way you can verify your measurements.
Kathi
Kathi
khuon
06-15-03, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by cyclinrunt
I'm still trying to figure out the Flight Deck computer, I apparently got the wrong manual, so there is some trial and error. There are no directions on starting it up!
What model FlightDeck do you have? Shimano has the manuals online in PDF format. There are two model of FlightDecks. Make sure you're looking at the right manual.
SC-6500 FlightDeck Manual (english) (http://bike.shimano.com/Computer/SC_6500_SI.pdf)
SC-6501 FlightDeck manual (english) (http://bike.shimano.com/Computer/SC_6501_SI.pdf)
I'm still trying to figure out the Flight Deck computer, I apparently got the wrong manual, so there is some trial and error. There are no directions on starting it up!
What model FlightDeck do you have? Shimano has the manuals online in PDF format. There are two model of FlightDecks. Make sure you're looking at the right manual.
SC-6500 FlightDeck Manual (english) (http://bike.shimano.com/Computer/SC_6500_SI.pdf)
SC-6501 FlightDeck manual (english) (http://bike.shimano.com/Computer/SC_6501_SI.pdf)
cyclinrunt
06-15-03, 07:45 PM
You won't believe this!!!
I had the bike out this evening in a very light rain, adjusting my position. I started riding in on a neighbor's circle drive, slowly circling, so my husband could watch my position, when the neighbor came home and I leaned the corner a little and added some pedal pressure to ride up to him ... and.... SPLAT!!
Turns out he had resealed his pebble surface concrete driveway, and with the rain, and new tires (these have no visible tread), and I was down on a sharp surface!! :( :(
It cut through my handlebar tape, almost all the way across the width in a couple places, knocked the endpiece out of the handbars, and marked up my shifter. The pedal was cut up some, but that's not new. It's my shifter that upsets me. I can get more handlebar tape. I'm so sad!!! I brought the bike in the kitchen and tried to tend to it, and I know it's melodramatic, but I wish I'd picked another place to ride, or something.
I'll be nursing a deep skinned spot on my elbow and hands for awhile, which will make it hard to ride, but I'll heal. My husband gave me a hankie to stop the bleeding and walked the bike home for me, and has listened to me whine about the bike ever since. He's a good man.
I had the bike out this evening in a very light rain, adjusting my position. I started riding in on a neighbor's circle drive, slowly circling, so my husband could watch my position, when the neighbor came home and I leaned the corner a little and added some pedal pressure to ride up to him ... and.... SPLAT!!
Turns out he had resealed his pebble surface concrete driveway, and with the rain, and new tires (these have no visible tread), and I was down on a sharp surface!! :( :(
It cut through my handlebar tape, almost all the way across the width in a couple places, knocked the endpiece out of the handbars, and marked up my shifter. The pedal was cut up some, but that's not new. It's my shifter that upsets me. I can get more handlebar tape. I'm so sad!!! I brought the bike in the kitchen and tried to tend to it, and I know it's melodramatic, but I wish I'd picked another place to ride, or something.
I'll be nursing a deep skinned spot on my elbow and hands for awhile, which will make it hard to ride, but I'll heal. My husband gave me a hankie to stop the bleeding and walked the bike home for me, and has listened to me whine about the bike ever since. He's a good man.
khuon
06-15-03, 07:54 PM
Originally posted by cyclinrunt
It's my shifter that upsets me.
I know you're not going to want to hear this but it won't be the last time your shifters get knicked up. The first time is always the worst however. I've got quite a few scuffs and scrapes on my levers too. What levers do you have? Perhaps you could try something like Scotchbrite or Metalbriite to repolish it up. Mind you, I've never actually done that myself.
P.S. Hope you heal up soon and can be back to riding.
It's my shifter that upsets me.
I know you're not going to want to hear this but it won't be the last time your shifters get knicked up. The first time is always the worst however. I've got quite a few scuffs and scrapes on my levers too. What levers do you have? Perhaps you could try something like Scotchbrite or Metalbriite to repolish it up. Mind you, I've never actually done that myself.
P.S. Hope you heal up soon and can be back to riding.
Rowan
06-15-03, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by cyclinrunt
You won't believe this!!!
I brought the bike in the kitchen and tried to tend to it, and I know it's melodramatic, but I wish I'd picked another place to ride, or something.
I'll be nursing a deep skinned spot on my elbow and hands for awhile, which will make it hard to ride, but I'll heal. My husband gave me a hankie to stop the bleeding and walked the bike home for me, and has listened to me whine about the bike ever since. He's a good man.
At least you've got your priorities right -- thinking about the bike first, then you :)
You won't believe this!!!
I brought the bike in the kitchen and tried to tend to it, and I know it's melodramatic, but I wish I'd picked another place to ride, or something.
I'll be nursing a deep skinned spot on my elbow and hands for awhile, which will make it hard to ride, but I'll heal. My husband gave me a hankie to stop the bleeding and walked the bike home for me, and has listened to me whine about the bike ever since. He's a good man.
At least you've got your priorities right -- thinking about the bike first, then you :)
bac
06-16-03, 07:39 AM
That's a bummer, but you'll be back and the bike will clean up pretty well. However, if it were me, I'd make up a good story to support the bodily and bike injuries!!
Sorry to hear about the spill. Get well, and get back on that thing! Good luck! :)
Sorry to hear about the spill. Get well, and get back on that thing! Good luck! :)
cyclinrunt
06-16-03, 09:07 AM
Thanks. My husband couldn't understand why I was worrying about the bike, standing there bleeding (but not wanting to bleed on the bike). I kept trying to explain that I have greater regenerative powers than the bike did, but he didn't get it.
My shifters are Ultegras. They have some actual divots, instead of just scratches, since the surface (exposed composite) had pebbles inbedded in it. So, I don't think there will be any polishing them out. I'll have the handlebars rewrapped today, since it nearly across the width of the tape in places.
On the bright side, I discovered some great new bandages at Wal-Mart that fit elbows well! :rolleyes:
I ran today (wasn't I cycling because I hurt myself running?!?). I hope this bandage will hold in water and I can swim tomorrow, and then I hope I can be back on the bike on Wednesday - I'll be out near a good place to ride. Once I'm back on board, I'll be happier.
Back to the other questions - yes, I have 165mm cranks (found the number), I'm still figuring out the flight deck (the correct manual was of marginal help - they need to rewrite that!), and I'm ordering a new saddle! (It's hard to keep a good woman down, especially if she has a good bike!)
My shifters are Ultegras. They have some actual divots, instead of just scratches, since the surface (exposed composite) had pebbles inbedded in it. So, I don't think there will be any polishing them out. I'll have the handlebars rewrapped today, since it nearly across the width of the tape in places.
On the bright side, I discovered some great new bandages at Wal-Mart that fit elbows well! :rolleyes:
I ran today (wasn't I cycling because I hurt myself running?!?). I hope this bandage will hold in water and I can swim tomorrow, and then I hope I can be back on the bike on Wednesday - I'll be out near a good place to ride. Once I'm back on board, I'll be happier.
Back to the other questions - yes, I have 165mm cranks (found the number), I'm still figuring out the flight deck (the correct manual was of marginal help - they need to rewrite that!), and I'm ordering a new saddle! (It's hard to keep a good woman down, especially if she has a good bike!)
MichaelW
06-16-03, 10:43 AM
Within 1/2hr of taking delivery of my custom made steel bike with metallic burgendy paint-job, I had dropped my keys on the top tube and knicked the paintwork.
Its got to be done, so the sooner the better.
Its got to be done, so the sooner the better.