Classic & Vintage - Cuda Mk.I Wheel build - Take II

This is for pastorbob and everyone else out there thinking they might try to build their own wheels...

Yesterday I got a package in from Cambria Bike with the third set of spokes for this build, the new 27" wheels for the Barracuda Mk.I. Parts include a NOS pair of Araya 27x1 rims, Shimano 333 High Flange hubs and DT Swiss Champion DB 2.0/1.8 spokes.

I setup the truing stand, all of the parts, my laptop and tools on the table and started with the front wheel. Following Sheldon Brown's directions on wheel building I soon ran into the first minor issue, the spoke drilling on the rim put the key spoke one hole away from the valve hole instead of right next to it. Sheldon's website mentioned this possibility but all of the images were shown with the key spoke next to the valve hole which threw me for a mental loop a bit. It took a couple minutes of triple checking what I was looking at before I proceeded with the first two sets of spokes. Unfortnutely somewhere along the line I still hadn't gotten it right and after placing my first leading side spoke I had a crossing spoke right above the valve hole.

So back apart it came and I redid everything one more time, realizing where I'd gone wrong and going again on the first two sets of spokes. This time when I laced the first leading spoke to the opposite side of the valve hole, everything was perfect, the two spokes were parallel giving all the space needed to get in on the valve. The third and fourth set of spokes went in and I started tensioning up the spokes. Slowly going around the wheel, trying to even up the tension as I went. Tension started coming up and I pulled out my new Park TM-1 tension meter and the guide and started to check where the tension was and how they related to each other.

I soon discovered that there was a small problem with the tool. The pivot screw had come slightly loose and was causing the two plates of the tool to rub against each other introducing addtional friction which was throwing off the accuracy of the readings. Oddly enough the screw took a SAE size allen tool to tighten up. I plan to dab the back side of the screw with some glue soon to keep it from getting loose again.

Front wheel I was able to get the tension pretty close and the wheel true and round. Maybe a little fine tuning to do after the first couple of rides, but hopefully that will be minor.

http://jonpfischer.com/thecuda/photos/upload/OtherPics/tn_P4102212.JPG

http://jonpfischer.com/thecuda/photos/upload/OtherPics/tn_P4102213.JPG

http://jonpfischer.com/thecuda/photos/upload/OtherPics/tn_P4102214.JPG

http://jonpfischer.com/thecuda/photos/upload/OtherPics/tn_P4102216.JPG

http://jonpfischer.com/thecuda/photos/upload/OtherPics/tn_P4102217.JPG

http://jonpfischer.com/thecuda/photos/upload/OtherPics/tn_P4102218.JPG

http://jonpfischer.com/thecuda/photos/upload/OtherPics/tn_P4102220.JPG

I feel for you.

I just tried my first truing yesterday. It was humbling.
I will be building my first wheel for class on next tuesday. I will let you know if it is any easier with a professional at your side. I'm guessing no.

Rob

Congrats!!! So do I need to start saving money to buy some wheels for the Falcon from you?

Congrats!!! So do I need to start saving money to buy some wheels for the Falcon from you?

If you're thinking of my Open Pro's, then no, not yet. Those wheels will most likely stay on that bike through the end of the year.

I started work on the rear wheel last night as well, I'll get some photos of it up soon. I have a feeling there is a fair bit more work to be done on it. That and I might have goofed on the spoke length a little as the non-drive side spokes are showing a fair bit of threads still on a few spokes, but I won't judge on that until everything is trued up and completed.

I just hope the sriracha isn't for lubricating the spoke nipples. :D

Yesterday I got a package in from Cambria Bike with the third set of spokes for this build, the new 27" wheels for the Barracuda Mk.I. Parts include a NOS pair of Araya 27x1 rims, Shimano 333 High Flange hubs and DT Swiss Champion DB 2.0/1.8 spokes.



I have a pair of those Araya rims I'm going to lace to high flange Normandys. What length spokes are you using?
Top

This is for pastorbob and everyone else out there thinking they might try to build their own wheels...
Jon,

You know I hope to inspire people on Sunday mornings, but always find it humbling when I inspire people here at C&V. With that said, I still find wheel building to be the most intimidating and possibly the only intimidating thing left to do in vintage bicycle work. Oh how I wish someone would offer a convient class in basic wheel building near me.

But look at wheel building from a different angle: I've spent $160 for each set of wheels my (not so) LBS has built for me. While that seems like a significant amount of $$$, if I were to consider the cost of spokes ($50-75 from Nashbar, etc. (LBS charges $72 for spokes)), plus five to ten hours of my time, well, $160 seems like a bargain!

Ive only built one wheel before (with used spokes) and I was very lucky that it worked. I trued it on the bike since I dont have a truing stand. Great work Cuda.

I just hope the sriracha isn't for lubricating the spoke nipples. :D
No silly, that's the seating compound for the spoke heads. The Tabasco is for nipple lube. :)

Congrats on getting it knocked Cuda! :beer:
There's a certain satisfaction, isn't there?

Always enjoy seeing a wheel come together :) what an amazing structure it really is!

What are your thoughts on that 333 hub? I have one still in the package that I was thinking of using soon.

Spoke lengths that I calculated were 295 for the front, 295 and 293 for the rear. I think the rear could have been better with a 294/292mm, but I haven't finished truing and evening then tension yet so I'll hold judgement on that for now.

The Shimano 333 hubs aren't as smooth or as nicely polished as my Campagnolo record hubs, but that's no big surprise. I bought both hubs used and repacked with new bearings both front and rear. They feel fairly smooth and they polished up decently with a little work with the polish. I really wanted to go high flange on this wheelset just for the look on the bike. The extra metal probably negates any advantage in spoke or rim weight over the old set I had, but I'm not going for a light weight bike by any means so no worries there.

I setup the truing stand, all of the parts, my laptop and tools on the table and started with the front wheel. Following Sheldon Brown's directions on wheel building I soon ran into the first minor issue, the spoke drilling on the rim put the key spoke one hole away from the valve hole instead of right next to it. Sheldon's website mentioned this possibility but all of the images were shown with the key spoke next to the valve hole which threw me for a mental loop a bit. It took a couple minutes of triple checking what I was looking at before I proceeded with the first two sets of spokes. Unfortnutely somewhere along the line I still hadn't gotten it right and after placing my first leading side spoke I had a crossing spoke right above the valve hole.


That one has gotten me a few times, too.

Nice job! Just think-every time you ride you are looking down at YOUR wheels. I get a lot of satisfaction from that, also from finally getting over my fear of building wheels. Plus, you get some bragging rights! :D

Spoke lengths that I calculated were 295 for the front, 295 and 293 for the rear. I think the rear could have been better with a 294/292mm, but I haven't finished truing and evening then tension yet so I'll hold judgement on that for now.

The Shimano 333 hubs aren't as smooth or as nicely polished as my Campagnolo record hubs, but that's no big surprise. I bought both hubs used and repacked with new bearings both front and rear. They feel fairly smooth and they polished up decently with a little work with the polish. I really wanted to go high flange on this wheelset just for the look on the bike. The extra metal probably negates any advantage in spoke or rim weight over the old set I had, but I'm not going for a light weight bike by any means so no worries there.
If 295 works on the front, and you have a matching hub and rim on the back, 295/293 should be right on the mark.

Building wheels is nothing to be afraid of. Pulling apart a Sturmey Archer 3-speed hub on the other hand... :eek:

Cool! I read The Bicycle Wheel over the winter and successfully trued up the mildly taco-ed wheels on that $40 Fuji Supreme for my wife but I haven't had a suitable project that requires building a wheel yet. I'm looking forward to it but I'm also scared to death by it!

building my first set of wheels and riding them was probably one of the most
satisfying things I've done in terms of bike maintenance.
scary at first but with a bit of practice not all that difficult.

marty

Where's the beer? I've always built wheels with a beer handy. But only one. More than one and problems start to crop up in the build.

I was still on a couple Advil regiment after having 7 moles biopsied at the dermatologist Monday night when I was working on this. Thus, no beer. I will however likely break out some of the Tito's Vodka that I received for my birthday when I go in for round two on the rear wheel. Looking at the wheel briefly this morning I could tell that the spokes should be the right length, but I can tell that the tension is fairly uneven on each side which is causing some oddness in the wheel.

Where's the beer? I've always built wheels with a beer handy. But only one. More than one and problems start to crop up in the build.

Yes, but problems pop up with less than 1 beer too.

Calm music helps. I love bluegrass and bag pipes but not during a truing session. And the kids need to be in bed for sure.

Lacing is the fun part. I can do that while watching PINKS or some such on TV. But tensioning and truing...

What was the line from Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintainance...

"Assembly of Japanese bike take great peace of mind."

Where's the beer? I've always built wheels with a beer handy. But only one. More than one and problems start to crop up in the build.

Looks like he has a bottle of wine handy just in case! :)

Haha, if you look close there's actually to (empty) bottles of wine in the shots.

Well, only nearly a MONTH later, the wheels are done. Both are trued up, running round as I could get them (which is pretty darn round if I say so myself) and ready for the road. Tried to stress relieve them according to sheldon's instructions, but have this feeling that a few rounds of truing are probably in the future.

Here's the photos:

http://jonpfischer.com/thecuda/photos/upload/OtherPics/tn_P5052242.JPG

http://jonpfischer.com/thecuda/photos/upload/OtherPics/tn_P5052243.JPG

http://jonpfischer.com/thecuda/photos/upload/OtherPics/tn_P5052244.JPG

http://jonpfischer.com/thecuda/photos/upload/OtherPics/tn_P5052245.JPG

http://jonpfischer.com/thecuda/photos/upload/OtherPics/tn_P5052246.JPG

Atta boy! Remember when you were a little kid how complicated tieing your shoelaces looked? Now you do it without even looking.

Not me; I bought slip-ons...

Congratulations! I hope they roll as good as they look.

I just built my first set on tuesday. Man, is it a test of patience.

Rob

Nice work!

It is a very satisfying feeling to ride on wheels YOU built! :D

I have built three, I am glueing the tires later this afternoon and tomorrow the first 2 will be ready for the maiden voyage.

Nice looking wheels!
Thanks for the inspiration Cuda, and the rest of you wheel builders!

As soon as the front hub arrives, I'll have all the components for the Merlin wheel build.
Campy Record hi-flange hubs, laced to Mavic MA40 rims with DT spokes.

Now the only problem is deciding the nipple color! :eek:
I was thinking black, but the rims are dark grey, so there wouldn't be must contrast.
And silver is just too ....

The only other colors on the bike are the blue & gold downtube decals.

But maybe red nipples, just so they stand out.

Your thoughts on this, si vous plait? (yes, I know, my French is terrible!)

if there are some blue in the decals, then blue nipples would certainly stand out!

I'm really digging the look of the high flange hubs. It changes the character of the bike quite a bit from the low flange wheels that were on it before. The difference in brake clearance is amazing! I can actually knock the wheels more than 1mm out of true and not have brakes rubbing with the QR open! :lol: The narrower rims (many thanks to the BF member who sold them to me!) look fantastic. I'm going to use this bike as my trainer bike as soon as I get clearance from doc to do some light spinning. At the very least test my rear wheel a tad before hitting the road! :D

Just ya'll wait for the surprise I have to show you tomorrow...

Nice build 'Cuda. I can imagine the piece of mind you got from undertaking this project. Unfortunately I did'nt have the guts to build up my Ambrosios myself, when I got them, for fear of ruining those hard to find rims. They were just too beautiful out of the box to put my grubby paws on them, so I had my LBS build them. With the cost of the rims, DT spokes, velox strips, and my NOS Record hubs, with labor came just a few bucks short of $500. (ouch baby)

My next wheels I'm going to build myself. :D

Wino Ryder - ouch is right. But if the shop did a good job then the extra labor was probably worth it and over all not that much of the overall budget. I think I've got about $150-$200 in these wheels. A little more if you include the tools I bought along the way. Started off borrowing Lotek's truing stand. Then bought a Park TM-1 tension meter, then my own stand. :)

hey those came out nice

cool rims !

Thanks, and extra thanks for the rims that made it all happen. :)

http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=295301 for that surprise I mentioned a few posts up. :)

Nice build 'Cuda. I can imagine the piece of mind you got from undertaking this project. Unfortunately I did'nt have the guts to build up my Ambrosios myself, when I got them, for fear of ruining those hard to find rims. They were just too beautiful out of the box to put my grubby paws on them, so I had my LBS build them. With the cost of the rims, DT spokes, velox strips, and my NOS Record hubs, with labor came just a few bucks short of $500. (ouch baby)

My next wheels I'm going to build myself. :D

I risked it, built my NOS ambrosio montreals on record pista high flange myself, my first built, They are beautiful.

I risked it, built my NOS ambrosio montreals on record pista high flange myself, my first built, They are beautiful.


Glad it turned out alright for ya. Like I said, I just did'nt want to take the chance messing up those beautiful red Ambrosio 'Excellence' rims. But the bike shop did a great job, and they're still just as true after nearly 2000 miles.

I bet those 'Montreals' are purdy. :)