Advocacy & Safety - When in Rome...

I'm just curious. If you went to another country, would you ride your bicycle the way the locals do?

If you would not, what would you do instead? A combination of what you are used to doing and what the locals do?

Where would you draw the line at the localization of your cycling? Different countries? Different parts of your own country?

I would like I do where I live.
I've observed (and occasionally been one) cyclists in several countries (germany, england, switzerland, denmark, norway, many other EU countries, argentina, canada, mexico, malaysia) and alway note there are a few cyclsits that ride similar to how I do, some that stick fully to facilities and some that ride sidewalk.

If I was to follow locals, it would most often be a choice which local method to follow.

Al

Interesting question Diane,

My limited "world" cycling experience extends to my native UK, California (in which I am resident at present) and The Netherlands.

Here in the USA I have adopted the local custom of riding on the right side of the roadway, though it seems that number of native cyclists do not do this :P: Otherwise, riding habits here or in the UK are very similar. I'm not used to calling out passing manouvres to other cyclists with the whole "on your left" thing, I just give them plently of room. Whilst I was in the Netherlands (many years ago) I made use of their excellent bike lanes and paths, but don't tell any of the Vicarious Cycling brigade ;)

Cheers,

Ed

Absolutely ride like the locals, especially if there's a large bike population on the roads. I learned this the hard way over in England... refusing to filter to the front of the line nearly got me rear ended a time or two as the drivers fully expected me to filter. Since everyone else does, it makes sense to be predictable.

Az

Interesting comments by Ed Holland... GRIN

When I toured down in Baja, I rode much like I do here, and had no problem with it, except when encountering US citizens (you could tell by their license plates).

The locals readily shared the road, they moved over to well past the double yellow line (if the line existed... often there was no actual line). Even the "dreaded" Mexican buses easily gave plenty of room.

But the visiting "gringos" had a tendency to hold to the right side of the road, and the RVers were the worst, with big "trains" of RVs running down the road and not moving to the left at all. Fortunately the sight lines were usually good, except in the mountain passes, so we could see RVs coming for quite a way off. Also the lightly traveled roads were pretty quiet, so it was easy to hear any car approaching from some distance off.

BTW on this tour each individual cyclist had flags, and each cyclist rode their own ride... meaning sometimes you might buddy up with a cyclist or two, other times you were riding alone. I had one of the rare fat tire bikes down there, so I was a bit on the slower side; I often rode alone. But then I rode through flooded vados too. GRIN

Oh, hiway 1 in Baja has no shoulders or bike lanes... Well... there are some shoulders in Tijuana and in Ensenada... but the rest is very narrow two lane blacktop. These days the road has been greatly improved between La Paz and Cabo... 2 lanes either way. And stoplights.

Absolutely ride like the locals, especially if there's a large bike population on the roads. I learned this the hard way over in England... refusing to filter to the front of the line nearly got me rear ended a time or two as the drivers fully expected me to filter. Since everyone else does, it makes sense to be predictable.

Az

I noticed that in France too. But the scooters seemed to have filtering priority.

What if you went to a country that was really different, like India or something like that? Would you ride like the locals?

I've been to Mexico City but I can't remember what the cyclists did there. But I've heard people say that Mexicans are taught to ride on the opposite side of the road. So, when they come here people get really concerned and want to teach them to ride like we do here. But would you accept being taught to ride the way they do down there? (or down wherever they do thing significantly different from here.)

In india - I let someone else ride the bike. Take a cycle rickshaw for fun and comfort. Unlike north americans - indians know how to make a bike fit three people - with only one of the three pedaling. It all works very well and it's lots of fun. Unfortunately cycle rickshaws are mainly in rural/tourist areas rather than big cities (they have scooters that fit three instead).

I think that counts as riding the way the locals do :)

What if you went to a country that was really different, like India or something like that? Would you ride like the locals?

I've been to Mexico City but I can't remember what the cyclists did there. But I've heard people say that Mexicans are taught to ride on the opposite side of the road. So, when they come here people get really concerned and want to teach them to ride like we do here. But would you accept being taught to ride the way they do down there? (or down wherever they do thing significantly different from here.)

Well look at the case of having to learn how to go from english right sided drive to the left side drive of the rest of the world.

Italy seems crazy, it's not that bad..assuming you ARE speaking of Rome. BUT Ireland and England,the Islands, both British and American drive on the left.ALL hispanic countries drive on the right. I found that Ireland could be potentially dangerous,I ended-up cycling with native individuals,it turned-out fine.From just by learning to look to our left before crossing a street, makes having to look to our right instead very tricky in left-side drive countries. Sounds real simple,it's not though, every split-second counts.

The whole idea of riding like the locals is that if you do, they are familiar with you and what your movements will likely be. That's probably best, IMO.

But I'm not sure I can do like I see a lot of Mexican cyclists do in Atlanta. They seem to know what they are doing, but riding on the left and crossing left-turn-arrow traffic head-on-as-you-manage is not my desire, to say the least.

...maybe they should do as the Romans do...

haven't posted in A&S in ages but this topic intrigues me-

Rome- whew, it's a crazy place to ride. I started off unable to decipher how to ride there until I watched a few (very few) cyclists negotiate the traffic and then I gave it a try but admit to taking refuge on sidewalks and the bike path along the Tiber.

Lisbon- cobblestones, hills, trolley tracks watched the locals again and rode all over the city and had a blast but it took some getting used to. Most of the local transportation cyclists go pretty slow so I dropped my pace but I'm sure with my bright yellow helmet and folding bike I was easily identified as a tourist.

Netherlands- no brainer- ride like the locals and there are plenty of them to model after.

Switzerland- like the locals and use the trains with your bike it's great.

France- like the locals (especially the TDF riders-:p).

basically any foreign country I've been in I've adapted my cycling to the conditions and I absolutely model my riding after the people who live and ride there.

haven't posted in A&S in ages but this topic intrigues me-

Yeah, me too. But France, Switzerland and the Netherlands are rich western countries with what I expect would be decent roads. But what about the undeveloped or third world countries? I recently got a folder and have a sister who works in the State Department. So about every two years I'll get a chance to ride in a different country. I've been to Armenia, but I didn't see one other bicycle. How can one ride like the locals in conditions like that?

Italy seems crazy, it's not that bad..assuming you ARE speaking of Rome. BUT Ireland and England,the Islands, both British and American drive on the left.ALL hispanic countries drive on the right. I found that Ireland could be potentially dangerous,I ended-up cycling with native individuals,it turned-out fine.From just by learning to look to our left before crossing a street, makes having to look to our right instead very tricky in left-side drive countries. Sounds real simple,it's not though, every split-second counts.

In Florence, the old city has banned car traffic. Its a bicyclists paradise. All these suits biking to jobs as bankers, lawyers.

In Venice, I think bikes are banned, no? I don't remember seeing a single one.

In Florence, the old city has banned car traffic. Its a bicyclists paradise. All these suits biking to jobs as bankers, lawyers.


Was there last October. Cars didn't seem to be completely banned... but very curtailed during certain hours.
Outside of the old city traffic was crazy.

Some thoughts here on my blog:
Rome (http://littlecircles.blogspot.com/2006/10/rome-italy.html)
Florence (http://littlecircles.blogspot.com/2006/10/bella-italy-architecture-art-and.html)

Bike riding only needs to be adjusted as much as car driving needs to be adjusted.

I've never ridden or driven in England, but there I would adjust with respect to side of the road that I ride/drive on.

The only foreign countries I've driven in or ridden in are mainland western Europe, and I did not have to adjust either my driving or my biking.

By and large, the rules are the same no matter where you go, and human nature is the same. What works here, works there, and vice versa.

It is useful to at least check out what the rules are. In much of Europe, left turns are done as 'two-step' turns. Bike paths/lanes are often mandatory when available. You will stand out like a sore thumb if you don't adapt to the local rules/custom, which may cost you a few Euros, kroner or pounds, as the case may be.

In Florence, the old city has banned car traffic. Its a bicyclists paradise. All these suits biking to jobs as bankers, lawyers.

In Venice, I think bikes are banned, no? I don't remember seeing a single one.

This is a photo of the train to Venice. It is stencilled as a bicycle carrying car:
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/hotbike/BicycleTrain.jpg

In Venice, you may not see any bikes, but you don't see any automobiles either.
I believe all the traffic is either pedestrian on the walks and bridges, or boats in the canals.

By and large, the rules are the same no matter where you go, and human nature is the same. What works here, works there, and vice versa.

I disagree with that one. There are cultural influences that are different. Take lines or ques for instance. In the US I can perpendicularly cross a line of people with no problems. I'll walk up to the line and a gap appears and I can walk right through it. It isn't the same in other countries. In China you have to physically nudge your way through a line. Since I can't just go up to a line of school kids in a museum and phycially push them aside, the tour guide had to take my hand and walk me through. It was both ridiculous and humorous. A Chinese person could walk through with no problem while for me it was an inpenetrable barrier.

I've also been in countries where if there are a dozen or more women waiting in a line, I am allowed to go right to the front just because I'm a man. That is bazaar. Actually it would be kind of nice, if I could accept the fact that I could walk right to the front of the line simply because I was a man. That's another ridiculous and humours situation, taking into account of the language barrier.

I know there some differences concerning bike bells. Some places they are just an advisory and in others only used before immenent collision. There must be other differences regarding bicycles.

Bike riding only needs to be adjusted as much as car driving needs to be adjusted.

I've never ridden or driven in England, but there I would adjust with respect to side of the road that I ride/drive on.

The only foreign countries I've driven in or ridden in are mainland western Europe, and I did not have to adjust either my driving or my biking.

By and large, the rules are the same no matter where you go, and human nature is the same. What works here, works there, and vice versa.

I drove a car in the Cayman islands many years ago... they use the same driver on the right side as England system. What really surprised me was how natural it felt driving on the wrong side of the road, with right turns being the one across traffic and left turns being the close turn. After a day it just felt OK, no problem. Of course the Cayman islands are not a hot bed of traffic either.

Yeah, me too. But France, Switzerland and the Netherlands are rich western countries with what I expect would be decent roads. But what about the undeveloped or third world countries? I recently got a folder and have a sister who works in the State Department. So about every two years I'll get a chance to ride in a different country. I've been to Armenia, but I didn't see one other bicycle. How can one ride like the locals in conditions like that?

closest experience I had to this was Portugal (the country with the poorest economy in Western Europe). It's certainly not "Third World" standards but parts of the outskirts of Lisbon were pretty depressed economically. I remember ascending a particularly narrow, curvy steep hill and coming up into a neighborhood where the local outdoor "cafe" literally hung over the road as I climbed up on my folder with my bright yellow helmet. The tinier cars that were very occasionally on the road gave me wide berth but I always did my best to avoid confrontations with drivers sometimes moving well over to the right as they approached- in other words I was not terribly assertive as I might have been at home in Boston.

edit: I think I'd have to adjust to this kind of traffic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg9f93gpfbo

What if you went to a country that was really different, like India or something like that? Would you ride like the locals?Uh no. If you've seen the number of bodies laying on the sides of the roads in India, you certainly would NOT want to be riding your bike there... I'd find a local and hang with them to learn the ropes.

I've also been in countries where if there are a dozen or more women waiting in a line, I am allowed to go right to the front just because I'm a man. That is bazaar. Actually it would be kind of nice, if I could accept the fact that I could walk right to the front of the line simply because I was a man. That's another ridiculous and humours situation, taking into account of the language barrier.
I've been to one of these countries, too, and let me tell you I thought it was so rude! I'd even be up at the front of the line and some guy would push my money out of the way to hand the cashier his, and the cashier would just let this happen. It made me so frustrated I stopped waiting in lines and sent my man to do it for me.

Things are not done the same the world over. I'd love to see old Helmie mixing it up in his spandex on the streets of Mumbai. That would be really funny.

I've been to one of these countries, too, and let me tell you I thought it was so rude! I'd even be up at the front of the line and some guy would push my money out of the way to hand the cashier his, and the cashier would just let this happen. It made me so frustrated I stopped waiting in lines and sent my man to do it for me.

Yeah, it drove my sister absolutely nuts and sent me shopping for her too. If my brain could accept the fact I could just walk to the front, I probably would have enjoyed it as much as you and she hated it.

That is an awesome misspelling/Freudian slip combo.

I guess you missed my other typo when I missed the letter "Y". Not bad in it's self, but then I was writing about some poster's wife picking him after a flat in the rain. So instead of "your wife" I wrote "our wife". I got the Freudian comments then too. But, it was really in a bazaar. The thing is, I knew there might be a problem so I checked the spelling and still made the mistake. So, it just might be Freudian. Dam, this is embarrassing. Man, I had to check the spelling for that one too.

err, actually its damn :) Sorry.