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I started out with a Trek mtb. Then I looked around and bought a Raleigh passage 4.5. I love both bikes.
Am I wrong, but it seems like no one on these boards has anything good to say about hybrid bikes. Is there a reason, or is it some kind of bike snob thing? I have never felt comfortable riding a bike in a bent over position using these down-turned handlebars - even as a teenager. Now that I'm over 50 I like them even less. So I ride the mtb and the Raleigh.
Most of my (daily) rides last for a little over an hour on very hilly roads. Soon, I'll be going on a overnighter to a park about 20 some miles away. The bikes I have suit me for these rides.
Do older riders really use the road-style bikes?
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Life is short. Nothing wrong with hybrids. Ride what ya like. That's my two cents.
On the other hand, go-fast road bikes are fun. I've modfied mine with higher handlebars and lower (easier) gears than the young 'uns would approve of, but I've got a disc issue and I'm not about to blow out my back trying to act like a 25-year-old
The spectrum hybrid bikes vary from "fitness bikes" to "comfort bikes." My 2004 Giant Cypress SX was advertised as a "road bike with flat bars." I have flipped the stem and changed the tires to 700C x 25. Today, my rides are whatever I can do in one hour...15-20 miles. Over the years, the Giant Cypress SX has morphed into more of a "comfort bike." If I had to get a new bike today, I would look at the Giant FCR 2 or OCR 2. The point is, a hybrid bike can be many things to many people. It is not a necessarily bad bike. Just find one that works for you.
Not many may not respond,it's just as well,some may be apt to talk silly. Nothing that you say is wrong,there's nothing wrong with hybrids,I just converted an old rodie to a hybrid..kinda..some would call it a commuter.I don't have a job,I Do commute to keg parties and barbeques,does THAT count?Hybrid,comm,ftat-bar road bike,they're all good.Maybe riders of hybrids are too busy/comfy ridin' them to be posting here. Hybrids offer a great alternative to drop-bar road bikes,they just DO!.Mountain bikes are slugs. The official word is that hybrids become marginally less efficient after 50 or so mile rides,that's what many bike manufacturers maintain. I don't know,to me ;5 40 miles rides a week trump 1 100 mile ride a week,save braggin' rights,if THAT's a concern.Don't worry about the posts,I've seen dudes posin' with tractors,boastin' about flatulance and re-defining cycling glossarys,I can assure you,most of what's written is provided more for ammusment,read the posts though,I did,I learned alot by accident.I'm 50.
I own two good road bikes and love them.
I also own a Treck Hybrid 7700. It is a great bike for limestone trails with 700x38 tires.
I fitted that hybrid with 700x25 and did some road biking. Was not much slower on the flats than a good road bike. Of course in the hills the weight will kill you.
Comfort? I am equally comfortable on the Hybrid as I am on the Treck Madone. Going on the drops takes a little more practice as do using the aerobars.
Whatever kind of bike you like to ride is a good kind of bike. I have a lot of different kinds of bikes and I like them all. But the bike I love is my road bike with drop bars.
Ignore bike snobbery (and reverse bike snobbery).
...is it some kind of bike snob thing? In some respects it is. I saw a comment somewhere (not in this forum) ridiculing someone riding around the neighborhood on a hybrid. They could have just returned from a very long ride, who knows? I cannot ride a bike with low bars, due to a prosthesis in my wrist and a problem in the other one that prevents both wrists from extending back with weight on them. In addition, I cannot sit in the low position with my neck bent up to support my head for long without it locking and being very uncomfortable due to compressed disks and bone spurs. My husband has an artificial shoulder, so he too should not put a lot of weight on low bars. We could get road bikes and change the bars and stem, but we also need the suspension to ease the bumps on these joints. So what should we do -- sit on the sofa and wish we could ride a road bike like all the "real" cyclists, but can't, so don't ride a bike at all? Instead we just bought new hybrids and are using leg muscles that haven't been used in years, and really enjoying our time together on the bikes. Suspension + raised bar + larger/wide tires + lots o' gears = hybrid, the right bike for us.
Get the bike that is right for YOU and don't listen to the nay-sayers. :)
Are they bad? I hope not, I'm named myself after one.
If it weren't for my hybrid, I wouldn't be riding today.
And I still love riding that bike
Your bikes suit you, so there's really no debate.
The supposed advantages of a road bike are that the curved handlbars allow you to shift hand positions to lessen fatigue, you can lean your torso lower and farther forward to lessen wind resistance and get more weight on the pedal during the downstroke, the skinny tires are fast, and you can pretend you're in the Tour de France.
The advantages of a hybrid are that your hands are always on the brakes, and the wide handlebars allow for more confident steering at low speeds or in tight spots. The upright body posture is more comfortable and gives you better visibility, and it's not necessary to crane your arthritic neck to see ahead. The slightly fatter tires are better for potholes and packed trails than road tires would be.
The spectrum hybrid bikes vary from "fitness bikes" to "comfort bikes." My 2004 Giant Cypress SX was advertised as a "road bike with flat bars." I have flipped the stem and changed the tires to 700C x 25. Today, my rides are whatever I can do in one hour...15-20 miles. Over the years, the Giant Cypress SX has morphed into more of a "comfort bike." If I had to get a new bike today, I would look at the Giant FCR 2 or OCR 2. The point is, a hybrid bike can be many things to many people. It is not a necessarily bad bike. Just find one that works for you.
I have the same bike -- the 2004 Cypress SX. I love it. I'm experimenting with a true road bike and enjoying it as well, but my Cypress SX is a wonderful bike. I have it rigged with 700x32 tires these days. Bought it used for $200, and I've put 1700 miles on it so far. Now that's a good deal!
Life is short. Nothing wrong with hybrids. Ride what ya like.
seems like the best attitude to have.
since no else is gonna turns the pedals for any of us, what does it matter what anyone thinks?
can't say I've read much in posts which deride hybrids, other than pointing out what some might consider 'limitations'. Whether those are limitations or just variations is really for each of us to decide.
quote - "Am I wrong, but it seems like no one on these boards has anything good to say about hybrid bikes. Is there a reason, or is it some kind of bike snob thing?" -
Roadies (and maybe some commuters, MTBers, Trackies and even Bent riders...) may have prejudice against 'Hybrids'; but like most ingrained and insideous prejudices, they tend to worm around under the surface, so to speak. But rarely broached in polite company.
Considering that hybrids really evolved from MTBs adapted for road use, what they offer in this kinship may be more suited for some and not desired by others.
I do notice more 'justification' from Hybrid riders, which is really only necessary if there something special the hybrid does for you in particular.
On a similar tangent, I rarely read 'justification' from 'Bent' riders. They ride em for their reason, note what they like and naysayers be dammed. Which is as it should be.
Quote - "Do older riders really use the road-style bikes?"
Well, I don;t consider myself 'old', since I'm happily one of the younger members in this forum. I 'abuse' mine as often as I'm allowed. It has many more advantages for me than any other bike form. I personally find a nice road machine to be a highwater expression of the art and industrial form of the bicycle. Course as I gain more decrepitude, my personal prefs may change, but my regard for a fine road machine will not.
Had you asked Dr. Seuss, he would have told you,
"Do what you like, say what you feel
Those who mind don't matter
Those who matter don't mind."
Hybrids are not bad. It depends on what you want to do and how fast you want to go. I have a Trek 7100 great bike, but I am getting a road bike next week as I have the need for speed. On club rides anything over a D or C pace I cannot do on the Hybrid. I am going to put flat bars and 28 cc tires on it though because I am sure I will not stop riding it just because I have a road bike. Oh yeah my wife has a Cypress, another good bike. Ride what you like !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tony
I have the same bike -- the 2004 Cypress SX. I love it. I'm experimenting with a true road bike and enjoying it as well, but my Cypress SX is a wonderful bike. I have it rigged with 700x32 tires these days. Bought it used for $200, and I've put 1700 miles on it so far. Now that's a good deal!I'm also glad I got my Giant Cypress SX in 2004. That was the last year it was built like a road bike with flat bars. After that, you would have to go with the Giant FCR bikes. Keep riding.:beer:
Hybrids are not "bad". They are exactly what they say they are, a compromise bike that attempts to allow as much variety in riding as a single design can do. For many sport riders they are the ideal bike. They provide the opportunity for multi surface riding without the necessity of buying more than one bike. The hybrid is an excellent way to bring 50+ riders back to bicycling after some years of layoff.
Snobs in all forms of life tend to look at what you have and determine its "goodness quotient" by what they would do without ever thinking of your needs and viewpoint. As seen in some of the other threads here lately, narrowness of viewpoint is a growing problem.
:crash:
Do older riders really use the road-style bikes?
I have 2 road bikes. I am 67yo. I have modified the bikes a bit in that:
1. My bars are just a slight bit lower than the saddle, contrary to many folks whose bars are considerably below the saddle.
2. I have "in-line brakes" installed so that I may have excellent braking while using the bars as a riding position.
I also have a mtn bike, and my wife has a hybrid and a mtn bike.
Yes, lots and lots of "older" types around here ride road bikes, including a friend who is 75yo.
But, the very fact that you asked the question indicates that you are having some doubts about your bike.
Don't.
Each of us finds our own way which is best suited to our time in space, our budget, our goals and our personality. Hopefully, by the time one is 50+ he/she doesn't give a hoot about what others say or think.
Keep riding as you like. Besides, for the same mileage, you are going to burn more calories and get more exercise on a hybrid than on a roadie.
Keep pedalin'.
Snobs in all forms of life tend to look at what you have and determine its "goodness quotient" by what they would do without ever thinking of your needs and viewpoint. As seen in some of the other threads here lately, narrowness of viewpoint is a growing problem.
Yes indeed, and from all sides of the issues. We don't have to tear down the different choices to validate our own.
I've owned one hybrid-an old Scott, with bio-pace chainrings. Worked great for the rail-trails which is what I was using it for. Then went to a mtn.bike, and more recently, added a road bike. If a hybrid suits you and does what you need it to do, then nothing at all wrong with one. Different types of bikes are made for different types of riders and uses-if a hybrid suits your usage, a mtn.bike would be bad most likely. So, if you like hybrids, are comfortable, gets you out for some exercise, and suits the type of riding you intend to do, I'd say a hybrid is perfect!
I agree with everyone else. Whatever bike feels comfortable, and most of all, makes you want to get out and bike, then that's the bike for you. Until I bought my new touring bike a couple of months ago, all I had was hybrids. I toured on them, rode the rails to trails on them, communted to work, everything. I still like riding my Marin Hybrid. In fact, I am taking it with me this week to ride while I am out of town working. Ride whatever suits you.
The only reason I went to drop bars on my commuter is that flat bars make my hands go numb quickly. The more natural position (for me) of my hands on the hoods of the drop bars prevents numbness.
Ride what you like and is comfortable, and ignore the OCP racer weenies.
Ride what you like and is comfortable, and ignore the OCP racer weenies.
Yeah, that is how I started out 10-15 years ago. After 100's wizz-banged by me I said, WTF?
I paid attention, talked to thes snobs, copied some of what they do and........have a lot of fun now....
The bikes I have suit me for these rides.
You said it best yourself.
Now go for a ride!
Hybrids are not "bad". They are exactly what they say they are, a compromise bike that attempts to allow as much variety in riding as a single design can do. For many sport riders they are the ideal bike. They provide the opportunity for multi surface riding without the necessity of buying more than one bike. The hybrid is an excellent way to bring 50+ riders back to bicycling after some years of layoff.
Hear! Hear!
The alternative (done by myself and many others in this forum because bikes are fun) is to own 3 or 4 or 5 different bikes each optomized for one particular thing. My next bike.....#6 will probably be a hybrid......maybe I've done this backwards.
Nah, I still like all of them.
Whatever kind of bike you like to ride is a good kind of bike. I have a lot of different kinds of bikes and I like them all. But the bike I love is my road bike with drop bars.
Ignore bike snobbery (and reverse bike snobbery).
+1
I've got a road bike, a TT bike, an older road bike fitted with a moustache handlebar and chain guard I use as a Café bike, and several MTB bikes. I ride my Specialized CrossRoads hybrid more than all the others combined. I use it as a commuter and as a touring bike. I have had college roadie snobs that have never seen me on one of my road bikes comment about my hybrid and how they would never ride anything other than a road bike. It's really fun to see the look on their face when I easily pass them on my road bike or get lower times on the Saturday time trial loop. I just tell them the Hybrid is for training! If you ride a loaded to the gills Hybrid your strength will improve and when you get on a road bike your performance is incredible. Here is a picture of my Hybrid while on a tour last fall.
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r154/n4zou/loaded.jpg
A hybrid is what it says- a cross between two bikes and it is neither. It is not a full mountain bike- but not many of them are- even bikes sold as mountain bikes. And Mountain bikes properly set up are not good on the road- You can have rigid forks and put slicks on them but they do not really work on the road. So that is one side of a hybrid that will either work better for you - as a bike to use on the road- or not work that well as a bike to use offroad. Then there are thefull road bikes- Come in a variety of forms- Racing bikes, sport, comfort, touring, but basically they are all road bikes. If you are on tarmac and smoothsurfaces then a road bike is for you. Except for one thing- those damn drop handlebars. Even road riders - if you watch them go past you, do not use the drop position all that often. They are riding on the hoods or on the top of the bars. The drop position is used for out and out speed- or downhill- or into a headwind- For most- the Usual position is more upright and you do have a couple of positions. So why have a road bike when you are not going to be hammering down a hill- into a headwind and using that full aerodynamic position. Because on the Tarmac the bike is a lot more efiicient than other bikes. Including the hybrid.
So what is a hybrid- Basically it is what you want to use it for. Bit of trail work where you want a more compliant ride and still retain control. Road use where you can get up a good speed but without that awkward handlebar position and lack of control that can come about with the narrower bars. Perhaps you want to do both- Lots of road work but a bike that will take the rough trails to get out without cars getting in the way.
Then on top of that- There are the advantages and the big one to me is that they are comfortable. The riding position is good for a 50mile ride, albeit slower than a road bike, but not by much. If you look at the better Hybrids- They are modelled on road bikes but with straight bars. The riding position that most roadies use in any case. So a hybrid being a second class or downgraded bike- No way.
Life is short. Nothing wrong with hybrids. Ride what ya like. That's my two cents.
On the other hand, go-fast road bikes are fun. I've modfied mine with higher handlebars and lower (easier) gears than the young 'uns would approve of, but I've got a disc issue and I'm not about to blow out my back trying to act like a 25-year-old
So what was it that entered the 20k race for you. The sensible rider or the person trying to relive his youth. Or was it just one of those moments that you regret once you have sobered up.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
My own two cents is that hybrids aren’t bad bikes but they are a compromise. If you want to tool around and you will be an occasional rider a comfort/hybrid bike would be fine. I own a hybrid and a road bike and I find that hybrids are really not a substitute for either a mountain bike or a road bike. For off road riding a hybrid’s geometry is too tall, the gearing is wrong and the suspension spells disaster. For on road riding the thicker hybrid tires require greater effort. The components on a hybrid such as brakes, de-railers, rims and gearing are (usually) not of the same quality of a true road bike.
Most people purchase a hybrid because of the straight handle bars and shifters. I believe that if you plan on riding for hours at a time (on road) I would personally go for a road bike with a more relaxed frame geometry and one that either comes or can be retrofitted with a straight bar and shifters.
Agree with above !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ride what you like and depending on the type of riding you plan to do.. Hybrids Are Good !!!!!!!!!!!!!
TP
My first bike was a Giant Boulder mountain bike. Early on, I discovered that I liked riding on pavement more than dirt and that I needed something more efficient. Knowing very little about bicycles, I "lucked" out and chose a Specialized Sirrus hybrid in the $500.00 range. It had the flat bars and the mountain bike style shifters, but the geometry and tires were more like a true road bike. I still ride this bike from time to time and have over 1000 miles on it. Even at that price range I think it's a great bike. It was perfect for me to ride enough miles on it (including two centuries) to know I wanted to move toward a traditional drop bar road bike. I've since put close to 2000 miles on my Bianchi roadie. In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with any bicycle if you like it and it's fun to ride. I have to admit...that I somewhat cringe when I see kids on bmx bikes..but then I'm an old coot. They are riding "bikes" after all...and that has to be a good thing.
I have to admit...that I somewhat cringe when I see kids on bmx bikes..but then I'm an old coot. They are riding "bikes" after all...and that has to be a good thing.
I enjoy seeing kids on BMXer's but for one reason only- If they learn to ride them right- then they will learn skills that I would give my big toe to have- (Need the rest of me to ride a bike)
What gets me are the ones that have one- Can't ride it- and only use it for nuisance value in the neighbourhood. Just like the 20 year old and his mates we have living locally.
So what was it that entered the 20k race for you. The sensible rider or the person trying to relive his youth. Or was it just one of those moments that you regret once you have sobered up.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Since I never raced in my youth, I have to save my foolish indescretions for my old age. Besides, how much pain and degradation can 20K take out of me? (Don't answer that).
Hybrids are OK bikes for many uses...especially around town rides, riding on bike trails, etc.
But, they are definitely slower than drop bar road bikes. If you're at all interested in speed, you'll want to look into standard road bikes at some point.
Me? I like to go fast, so no hybrids for me (though I do have in mind a project to create an "errand bike" that may end up with flat bars).
I don't think any bikes are "bad." Hybrids get no respect because they incorporate so many compromises. Consequently, they are too fragile and inconvenient for errands and commuting, have the wrong tires for off-road, are too heavy and non-aerodynamic for road riding, and so on. However, although they don't do anything particularly well, they can do everything. That's why they are the "default bike" that an LBS will try to sell you if you have no clear idea what riding you will do. My back-up bike is a hybrid, and I enjoy riding it. That's enough for me.
Paul
Hybrids answered the "little boy" that still lives inside of me. I am no mountain biker -and have asperations, either- but the call of the off-road does appeal to me. When I came back to cycling, I knew I'd spend most of my time on the pavement but if the pavement ran out, or I saw a path or trail to look interesting, I wanted to be able to take it. Voila! The hybrid, not great at either but good at both. I just swapped out the stock tires when I bought the bike and I haven't looked back since. OK, I *am* looking roadies now they are in the "nice to have" bucket. With my Kaitai, I have what I need in the "have to have" bucket.
Why are Hybrids or any other bike without drop bars "bad"? The impression one gets from many cycling forums is that people buy road bikes even for their pre-school kids or install drop bars on their trikes...lol. I remember a time where "flipping" the drop bars up was the "in thing" and people thought it made the road/touring bike a more practical bicycle...how times and attitudes have changed over the years.
If one decides to replace their drop bars with a moustache, north road, on-one mary, etc handlebars...have they essentially made their road bike a hybrid or customized their bike to meet their current requirements? Who cares if the seat is lower than the handlebars. What is a "proper" bike anyways and who has the right and qualifications to make that "expert" distinction?
The main thing is if one enjoys riding their bike, despite the current popular convention/opinion, and if the bike performs they way they expect/want it to...in comfort and with confidence. What someone else thinks about your bike is immaterial...one has to make a decision whether or not their bike is the best for them or buy something else that does.
All I know if it weren't for hybrids I wouldn't be riding. I put trekking bars on mine a few weeks ago, because I didn't care for flatbars, and I have all the hand positions I need to make me more comfort than I was before. Good luck and have fun riding.
Thanks for the replys.
Perhaps, to restate my original question, "what's this fuss about hybrids?"
Like I said, I love my bikes. I owned a Schwinn Collegiate for several decades. I'll bet my hands spent less than a combined total of 5 minutes on the drop position of the handlebars. I don't like flying through space head first, even with a helmet on. Never have, never will (I know, never say never.) It feels like I'm trying to use my noggin for a battering ram. Just not for me, thank you.
I've always been Mr. Upright.
I was just asking because of the comments I hear.
Pee Wee Herman's bike in Pee Wee's Big Adventure didn't have drop handlebars, either.
Pee Wee Herman's bike in Pee Wee's Big Adventure didn't have drop handlebars, either.Pee Wee's da Man! He also knew how to get a good grip on himself.;)
My own two cents is that hybrids aren’t bad bikes but they are a compromise. If you want to tool around and you will be an occasional rider a comfort/hybrid bike would be fine. I own a hybrid and a road bike and I find that hybrids are really not a substitute for either a mountain bike or a road bike. For off road riding a hybrid’s geometry is too tall, the gearing is wrong and the suspension spells disaster. For on road riding the thicker hybrid tires require greater effort. The components on a hybrid such as brakes, de-railers, rims and gearing are (usually) not of the same quality of a true road bike.
Most people purchase a hybrid because of the straight handle bars and shifters. I believe that if you plan on riding for hours at a time (on road) I would personally go for a road bike with a more relaxed frame geometry and one that either comes or can be retrofitted with a straight bar and shifters.
I think this hits the nail on the head. For casual riding, hybrids are fine. but if you get more serious about either off-road or road biking, you'll probably be happier with a bike specifically designed for what you are going to be doing.
I did test ride a hybrid before buying my current bike. I did not like the locked-in-one-position feeling I got from the flat bars. By getting a relaxed geometry road bike and/or raising the bars, you can get just as upright putting your hands on the top of traditional road bars as you can on flat bars but still have the option of putting your hands on the the hoods or in the drops.
Dan
I sure hope they're not bad, I just bought one that I think hits the sweet spot for me. It's a real hybrid. Lightweight steel frame, 700x28s - road. Brakes? Disc- MTB. 52 42 30 triple chain ring - road. 11-32 9 speed cassette - MTB. Carbon fork - road. Riding position - upright (I actually raised the stem a fair bit and put bars on with some lift to get bars slightly above seat height). Speed? Enough for me, comfort, definitely enough for me. I weighed it the other night, fully loaded (air pump and a loaded seat bag and ready to ride but with no water on board) it was 28.5 lbs. Not gossamer by any stretch but for a 21.5" steel framed bike that does not seem all that bad to me. I like mine. Sounds like you like yours too. How can that be bad?
Not even professional roadracers stay in the drops most of the time. The standard position for most road riders is on the hoods. Don't believe me? Here is Daniele Contrini on the last lap of the finishing circuit in Macon of today's stage of the Tour de Georgia.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d195/GonzoDawg/bicycles/07%20TdG/Maconwinner3.jpg
Not even professional roadracers stay in the drops most of the time. The standard position for most road riders is on the hoods. Don't believe me? Here is Daniele Contrini on the last lap of the finishing circuit in Macon of today's stage of the Tour de Georgia.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d195/GonzoDawg/bicycles/07%20TdG/Maconwinner3.jpg
Nice tandem behind her...
My favorite bike? The one I'm riding at the time. Road, mountain, hybrid, single speed, flat bar road, aluminum, carbon, steel....it doesn't matter, they all rock! :D
Not the time for a flat bar vs. drop bar debate. A matter of preference anyway. Personally, I can't imagine doing 30 or more miles on a flat bar-- on the road. Trail riding requires so much in the way of body shifting and movement it is hard to get frozen into a position. On the road, more subtle body movements come into play. The drop bar allows more relaxing changes of trunk, shoulder, arm, neck, and hand position. It's that subtle variety that keeps one from being frozen into a static position-- one source of discomfort on a long road ride.
For what it's worth, I started two years ago with a hybrid and really enjoyed it. As I started to get into club riding I realized that the 40 lb hybrid was holding me back.
I too worried about the leaning and stretching on a road bike but my new Felt 80 is wonderful. I had brake levers put on the top of the handlebars and quite frankly, I'm on the hoods about 85% of the time without thinking about it. Saving the 18 lbs or so of bike weight has made my riding much more enjoyable so the body weight is shrinking too. I also find that I'm a bit more of a minimalist with the road bike so the saved weight of not carrying extra gear helps too. Specialized Armadillos give me added resistance to flats and I couldn't be happier.
Nice tandem behind her...
Daniele Contrini is a him, not a her. And I forgot to mention he was about 2.5K from winning the stage when I took that picture. But yeah, nice tandem.
Technically, my road bike, a Cannondale SR500 is actually a hybrid because it has a head shock. But with turned down bars and 700X23 tires, I just make believe its a road bike, nobody seems to notice. I ride what I like, when I want to.
My favorite bike mechanic once told me, ride to have fun, those who force themselves to ride for whatever reason, soon find reasons not to ride and leave the sport.
I don't think any bikes are "bad." Hybrids get no respect because they incorporate so many compromises. Consequently, they are too fragile and inconvenient for errands and commuting, have the wrong tires for off-road, are too heavy and non-aerodynamic for road riding, and so on. However, although they don't do anything particularly well, they can do everything. That's why they are the "default bike" that an LBS will try to sell you if you have no clear idea what riding you will do. My back-up bike is a hybrid, and I enjoy riding it. That's enough for me.
Paul
Fragile???:eek: Would you explain, please?
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