"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - American Ignorance (of the sport.)

I just want to get some people's feelings on the relative lack of understanding of the sport of cycling by the general american public. Here are some questions:

In europe, do people throw cans an bottles at you and spit on you for riding your bike?

Men's Health magazine just had a list of the best athletes in the world. Lance was not in the top ten, but he did make the best of the rest list. Do you think this is justifiable, or is it because people don't understand the nature of the sport. For example, I was talking to someone about the TdF the other day and they asked me what city the race was in. They had no concept of the fact that the riders circumnavigate the entire country.

Do you think people don't take cycling seriously because they all rode bikes when they were kids, so how hard could it be?

I don't know just some thoughts to spark some conversation.

I think that the great misunderstanding regarding the sport stems from the fact that such a small percentage of our population rides. I really think it's as simple as that.

Regarding Men's Health: That's just silly.

Regarding the can/bottle throwing: Those guys are just jerks.

Our sporting void is filled by football, baseball and basketball. There's not enough bandwidth leftover to be a big cycling country. Europe has soccer and cycling, both of which there are equal to the scale of football, etc. here. I don't think it's a right or wrong issue, it just is that way.

With respect to athletics... Even with my bias as a cyclist, I can safely say that there can't be any more physically demanding endurance sport than multi-week stage racing. Perhaps hiking to the north pole or something. Even basketball here doesn't have the duration or intensity. Football and Baseball - forget it; they're short-intensity things.

When I lived in Europe I noticed much less hostility when on my bike. I get called all kinds of names here for wearing tight clothing, have people honk at me when I go around a pothole. I just don't think it's a respected or even at all understood sport here.

Lance not on the top 10 atheletes list, i'd like to see that list and find out what they define as an athelete.

Men's Health must not have seen that copy of Sports Illustrated with Lance on the cover.:rolleyes:

Here's the list they had:

10. Ian Thorpe (Swimmer, Australia)
9. Ole Einar Bjoerndalen (Biathlete, Norway)
8. Roman Sebrle (Decathlete, Czech Republic)
7. Tony Azevedo (Water Polo, Stanford)
6. Kevin Garnett (Forward, Minnesota Timberwolves)
5. Alexei Nemov (Gymnast, Russia)
4. Bob Burnquist (Skateboarder, Brazil)
3. Ronaldo (Forward, Real Madrid/Brazilian National Team)
2. Bode Miller (Ski Racer, U.S. Ski Team)
1. Michael Vick (Atlanta Falcons QB)

The magazine asked a panel of sports experts including a renowned sports physiologist Jim Wharton, a former Olympic downhill skier David Currier, the world's foremost orthopedic surgeon Dr. Richard Steadman, and two ESPN anchors, Jeremy Schaap and Stuart Scott among others - "to grade the ten athletes who inspired us most in seven categories." The seven categories were strength, speed, agility, hand-eye coordination, and endurance, plus a couple of intangibles, with each getting a score between one and ten, according to the magazine.

To be fair, Lance did make the list of the next ten which was just in alphabetical order, which put him with the likes of Tiger Woods and Serge Fedorov.

I know I may hear it from a number of people, but what's the deal with NASCAR? This is the most watched "sport" in the U.S. Just my opinion, but thats messed up!

I own a gym, and I try to explain to some of the people that think they are in such great shape a little bit about cycling, and what kind of athletes they are.

I usually tell them about the "hour record." (The record is just over 35 miles in a one hour period) Okay, for all of you that didn't like math.. that means the guy (chris boardman) averaged over 35m.p.h. for 1 full hour!! To put that into perspective, I tell the "athlete" to get on a bike with a speedometer. Find the tallest bridge you can find. Starting at the top..pedal with eveything you've got until you reach the bottom, then check out the speedometer for the MAX Speed. Most of the time the rider won't even have a max over 35m.p.h. That means that they didn't even hit 35 for a second.. going downhill! Now imagine going that fast for an hour!! Crazy.

Truth is, I sort of like being involved in a "fringe sport," as opposed to the mainstream sports people concern themselves with here in the U.S. I enjoy the looks on the faces of the guys at the gym when they ask me: "who won the game last night?" and I have no clue what game, what teams, or even what sport they are talking about. (Who cares if it's the Super Bowl? Thats the best time to get out on your bike!!)

Mens health magazine is full of sh*t. But they have a tendancy to promote bodybuilding type workouts for fitness. Body building (not power/str training) increases muscle mass and typically does little for athletic performance.

Also this magazine seems to be more of a beauty mag for men not a serious health publication. I bought one once and found it to be a joke. It also wreaks of sex and implied soft porn which makes it hardly a fitness periodical.

The American public is generally sedentary and most have no clue what a real athlete should be capable of.

well in all fairness, they didnt say top ten atheletes, they said atheletes that inspired us the most, and the list is actually more comprehensive than i expected.
that kind of list is really kind of silly, there really too many people that are great in so many sports i dont know how you can limit to 10 let alone say one is better than the other.
imagine the arguments you'd get if you just said name the top 10 bicyclists. it wouldnt surprise me if lance didnt make some peoples lists even limiting it to that.

Originally posted by shaharidan
well in all fairness, they didnt say top ten atheletes, they said atheletes that inspired us the most. . .
Geez, if coming back from having cancer and being written
off by almost everyone to win TdF 4 times (and counting) isn't
ispiring what is?

marty

a skateboarder made the list but lance didn't? i just decided never to read that magazine ever again. thanks for the tip!

i find him extremely inspirering, but thats me and you. they asked a personal feeling/opinion question. and while we can make an excellent argument for our view, other people may feel differently. its also the type of question where people are bound to forget people.
o and believe me i think it's ridiculous, i was just playing devils advocate. i think those kinds of polls are stupid. trying to name the top ten atheletes is ridiculous, just gives people a topic to argue about, and i think half the time they leave out obvious choices on purpose just to make it more contreversial.

Originally posted by lotek
Geez, if coming back from having cancer and being written
off by almost everyone to win TdF 4 times (and counting) isn't
ispiring what is?

Evidently, doing neat tricks on your skateboard according to the #4 slot on the list.

I don't have a problem with a skateboarder making the list, I have a problem with it being anyone other than Tony Hawk.

-Matt-

The article was about best athlete and was based on pure talent and athletic ability. I agree that Lance is an outstanding cyclist and the people who can do stage race have to be top notch. But look at Mike Vick, arguably one of the best players in the NFL, and could probably play at the pro level in baseball or basketball as well. I'm not saying I agree, i'm just saying I can see where they are coming from.

All valid points. It's the same as the US Today list that said hitting a baseball in the Major Leagues is harder than winning the Tour. Depends on who you ask I suppose.

Originally posted by stridercc
I don't have a problem with a skateboarder making the list, I have a problem with it being anyone other than Tony Hawk.

-Matt-

Tony Hawk is the man... but Burnquist is doign things no one else has even come close to yet.... he will go down as one of the greats right up there with Tony... he's probably even more well rounded that Tony too

Jeff

I agree for the most part with the top 10... I do feel Lance should be in there though... maybe i'm jsut biased :-)

Jeff

Geez, if coming back from having cancer and being written
off by almost everyone to win TdF 4 times (and counting) isn't
ispiring what is?
I agree with Lotek.

4. Bob Burnquist (Skateboarder, Brazil)

You have to be kidding me.

Americans shouldn´t consider their country to be the heart and soul of our planet.

Originally posted by Piratello
Americans shouldn´t consider their country to be the heart and soul of our planet.
It's not?!?!
JK ;)
Re/can throwing, etc., and cycling in Europe, I've heard that cycling there is kind of like basketball in the US... it can be "a way out." In the US, the roadie/racer tends to be more the yuppie type.

Please excuse the gross generalities implied by the above statements... Europe and the US, there are obviously exceptions.

Germany - what does America having itself at the center of the universe have to do with this discussion? If anything we are lending extra credit to a primarily European sport. When Europeans make such comments it makes them look jealous of the US. We call it here 'sour grapes'. Not sure how the idiom translates. I lived in Germany for two years and heard this sometimes from certain individuals.

Originally posted by Piratello
Americans shouldn´t consider their country to be the heart and soul of our planet.

What exactly besides American bashing does this post have to do with the thread? Why is it that you feel it neccesary to throw that in? I do not remember reading negative comments about other countries here in this thread! Just leave your opinion to yourself.

The fact of the matter is plain: Cycling is not considered a "major" sport in the USA.

Lance is the most recognized US cyclist ever (sorry Greg LeMond) but do you realize that the 12th man on a pro basketball team, a 3rd string QB, a pitcher with a 3-17 record and the guy who finishes 20th at the masters all make more $$ in Salary than Lance. (Not that Lance is doing poorly in that category, but I bet George could use a few extra $$.) Hell the AVERAGE salary in Baseball is about 2 Million, AVERAGE!

Lance is actually the first cyclist that has really ever had any US endorsement contracts (Major company endorsements).

The hierarchy in US sports goes (some of these could be flip flopped, but you get the idea):
Football
Basketball
Baseball
Motor sports
Hockey
Golf
Boxing
Everything else...

We all wish it were different, because we all have a passion for our sport. We are all glued to the OLN coverage of the TDF (and happy to get that much) while ESPN is showing some fishing or hunting show or the 7,000th repeat of the "Worlds Strongest Man" competition from 1987.

Just enjoy the fact that you are involved in a sport that still is unspoiled by corporate greed and politics.

Originally posted by mjolnir2k
a pitcher with a 3-17 record A pitcher with a 3-17 record is quite likely a very good pitcher with a very bad team, otherwise he wouldn't be on the mound for 20 decisions. There have been a few superstars on lousy teams who get less recognition for it. He may not be on the same level as Lance, but given the number of kids who play baseball in this country as compared to the number of kids who race cycles, he may be in the same percentile of skill within the US participants in the sport as Lance. Further, in both cases, the individual success does have a lot to do with a good team behind the athlete.

Sorry for the comment. Didn´t have a good day today.
Hunter is absolutely right, it was absolutely unnecessary and off topic. Just forget about it.
Cycling is an universal sport. So let´s just ride.

Originally posted by FOG
A pitcher with a 3-17 record is quite likely a very good pitcher with a very bad team, otherwise he wouldn't be on the mound for 20 decisions.

I was just using that as an example of the inequity in sports, not being literal. Although, since expansion, there have been plenty of pitchers with a lot of appearances that are not good pitchers. (See also: Tampa Bay D-Rays) ;)

i don't think mainstream popularity of the sport has a thing to do with anything on this list. thorpe's a swimmer. there's a duathlete and a decathlete and a skateboarder on there. cycling's lack of mainstream popularity doesn't mean lance isn't the finest athletic specimen on the planet. they didn't put him on the list because they are idiots. idiots whose magazine i will never read again.

Originally posted by pgreene
a skateboarder made the list but lance didn't? i just decided never to read that magazine ever again. thanks for the tip!
If it's Tony Hawk, then I say they made a good choice. I think Lance Should have been there, however, Tony Hawk is probably the best example kids interested in athletics have. He's been skating since I was a kid, and he still shreds (as I use to say it). He's successful, drug free, not a booze aholic, or an arogant SOB. I met him, and he's pretty nice in person.

This is nothing against Lance, who is someone I emulate, however, I think that for insperation of most kids, esp in our disconnected generations: Tony Hawk is a good choice.

I think there are several reasons why cycling is just not seen as a real sport in North America.

-Everyone can ride a bike. Even little kids. So how can it be a sport? Anyone can do it. Sports are supposed to be something that only really great athletes can do. But three year olds can ride a bike, so it's not really a sport. Cycling is something Europeans do three weeks a year in france. Bikes are something you use to get around instead of a car or before you get your license.

- Size. Our image of the athlete in North America is a big, musclebound hulk. Kids here say, I wanna be big and tough like Shaq! They don't say, "I wanna be a shrimp like Gilberto Simoni!" We don't think cyclists are really athletes, we think of them as skinny guys with shaved legs, and therefore sissies, not big macho hulks like football players.

- the Car culture. Like I said, bikes are something you use if you can't afford a car, or before you get a car. If you ride a bike it's because you're a loser. Having a huge SUV shows you've made it. Kids have bikes- adults have cars. Why should we promote a sport that means more annoying bikes on the roads???

Wow, there seems to be a lot of issues being thrown around here.

It's obvious that an American ingnorance exists when it comes to cycling. It's simply due to a lack of popularity (and consequent exposure). I'm not really surprised or bothered by the fact that most Americans don't appreciate cycling. Real sports writers and fans recognize and appreciate the strategy, challenges and difficulties of the sport. I'm happy with the fact that I can get TV coverage of big races and that ESPN gives coverage during the TdF. We should all be glad that the sport is growing. (Thanks Lance.)

As far as rude motorists go...rude people will do rude things. I never spit or threw things at cyclists before (or since) I got into the sport. Would there be fewer incidents of such things if cycling was more popular? Perhaps. I suppose if more people would ride, they'd know the dangers posed by wreckless drivers and adopt safer driving habits. But then again, I cannot control the actions of irreverant people.

Comparing salaries of different sports stars/players is simply useless. The comparisons in this thread seem to hinge on the assumption that athletes should be paid based on their athletic abilities. The majority of, if not most, professional athletes are paid based on their abilities and/or potential to entertain others.
This is why Lebron James will be eventually make millions in the NBA. (I'm talking about money from the team, not the millions from Nike he's already getting.) The Cleveland Cavs are already raising ticket prices! This is why many NFL players in "skill" positions are paid more than other positions (such as guard or tackle). As the saying goes, "defense wins games, but offense puts people in the seats". Lance would not be paid as much if he didn't have the marketing value he has!

Sorry for the rant. Just my $.02.

:)

To those naysayers who wish to say that a skateboarder doesn't deserve to be on a list of the 10 best athletes: wake up.

If you don't believe me, I have a suggestion:
1) Go to your nearest skatepark with a half pipe (10"+ tall, with 1-2" of vertical).
2) Borrow a board and pads/helmet.
3) Go to the top.
4) Look over the edge.
5) Think about dropping in on huge ramp with only that "silly wooden toy" between you and a sudden, violent, and painful lesson about gravity.
6) Try not to soil your shorts.

Consider that these guys not only drop in, but fly 10"+ over it while spinning themselves and their boards around and then somehow manage to right thier balance before landing *straight down* (ie., dive bombing) onto the vertical section of the ramp. For those of you that flunked math, thats dive bombing straight down from 20+ feet above the hard ground.

Personally, I consider top level road cyclists and top level skateboarders to be the worlds best athletes. Hands down. But to compare the two is to compare apples to oranges.

If I was going to nominate a skateboarder for the list, it would be Danny Way. What I was saying earlier about flying 10+ feet out of a 10 foot half pipe: well with Danny Way, just multiply the whole thing by 2. That's right, 20 foot airs over a 20 foot half pipe. That's a dive bomb of 40+ feet to the ground. The guy is the best skateboarder to ever strap on set of pads.

Check it out:

http://www.dcshoecousa.com/AdArchive/AD32.HTML

For what its worth, I'm a roadie who has ridden my share of miles and won my share of races (Cats 5-3 and collegiate).

I just don't get the lack of respect given for the ability of these very gutsy, skillful, and courageous athletes.

I think the skaters are very skilled and fearless, but don;t need to be in as good of shape physically as other athletes. I also think that if they were looking at skill, and total strength/cardio they should have included a competetive rower (Mueller/Wadell etc) In a recent olympic survery rowers had the greatest average vo2 max, and those guys are ripped too. It's kinda like cycling in a way anyone can row a rowboat or ride a little bike, but racing in the types built for speed and aero is somethign else.

I have been on four cycle tours of Europe. There is a great respect for cyclists there. Recall, motorists as passing you by on a major climb honking and giving you the thumbs up. Come into a town people will applaud you. One couple asked if I had anything to do with the Tour De France. Felt great.

All people have opinions on athletes fitness levels, difficulty of the sport, etc. Physical size has little to do with how in shape you are or your muscle definition. Look at Wayne Gretzky not built at all no real size to speak of not really strong in comparison to other athletes. However would anyone doubt his skill or how good he was? Then you could compare him to Scott Stevens works out really strong, built well, plays more physical then most people, and has played an almost unbelievable amount of games. Would anyone question his ability?
That is just two pro hockey players. IMHO anyone who can play as many games as Scott Stevens has for 19 years, play the way he plays, getting ready to turn 40 and still going, should be considered as a great athlete.
Then look at Matt Hoffman, Lance, Ken Shamrock, Tapia Sit, Richard Marcinko, etc. all great in their own specialty, should not be questioned by anyone.

The remarkable nature of Lance Armstrong isn't just that he's a great athlete, but the fact that he's among the greats of his sport after fighting back life-threatening cancer.

Let's not forget soccer players. I recently treated a teamate of Clint Mathis who plays for the New York Metro Stars. He and Clint were in our emergency room and noone but me gave a rats ass that we had two of the most talented athletes in the country . (Clint Mathis played in the world cup and has graced the cover of Sports Illustrated and TV guide.) So sad that two professional American soccer players were largely ignored by everyone but myself. I asked for their autographs and treated them and discharged them. If we had two professional basketball players the place would have been mobbed. Clint and his teamate and coach were very humble and respectful and did not seem to care that they were resigned to anonymity.

Clint was not my patient so I am not disclosing any confidential information.

Originally posted by Crack'n'fail
I just want to get some people's feelings on the relative lack of understanding of the sport of cycling by the general american public. Here are some questions:

In europe, do people throw cans an bottles at you and spit on you for riding your bike?

Men's Health magazine just had a list of the best athletes in the world. Lance was not in the top ten, but he did make the best of the rest list. Do you think this is justifiable, or is it because people don't understand the nature of the sport. For example, I was talking to someone about the TdF the other day and they asked me what city the race was in. They had no concept of the fact that the riders circumnavigate the entire country.

Do you think people don't take cycling seriously because they all rode bikes when they were kids, so how hard could it be?

I don't know just some thoughts to spark some conversation.



I think one of the aspects of cycling that contribute to it being on the popularity rank that it is right now, is that cycling is personal sport. It brings most joy to the person riding and is not so spectacular to watch as, let's say box...

I think exposure is the big difference. If cycling got any media coverage in north america, it would probably pick up in terms of popularity. Let's face it, there are races going on all the time, but I bet they are mostly ignored by the papers and tv. At least OLN in the US has cycling but here in canada, we still get nothing. Even though we're hosting the world champs! Every other sport is seen as a sport worthy of broadcasting- even rollerblading, cheerleading and bull riding! But while canadian cyclists and mountain bikers rack up the victories, we see none of it, because they don't think anyone would be interested.

I think you are absolutely right. This is excactly the reason why professional cycling is not as popular as other sports.

So, now, you have several choices. To become an "introducer" of the professional cycling to US public, and possibly becoming very rich, famous etc, or just understand it and do nothing particularly about, just use this as a brick for some further idea construction...

Why am I always interested in the underdog sports?

Cross Country Running.
Track.
Cycling.

Theres three sports that combined probably have as much coverage in a year as football has in a fall week. Although cycling does have OLN which is a big time plus, there seems to be a good amount of coverage on that station.

Trust me though, I am much more satisfied being interested in three sports that I can actively participate in every weekend, even if I can't watch them on TV all the time. I'm better off than the guys who love Football/Basketball/Baseball/Hockey (the "big four") and who never get out the house due to watching so much of it. I'd rather be pounding the pavement, or rolling over it, myself.

Cheers to that! :beer:

Originally posted by Inoplanetyanin
So, now, you have several choices. To become an "introducer" of the professional cycling to US public, and possibly becoming very rich, famous etc, or just understand it and do nothing particularly about, just use this as a brick for some further idea construction...

Lets see here... what is the criteria for being an "introducer" exactly? Being a great rider? In that case we have the greatest of all riders for the past four years in Lance, yet the American public is still largely disinterested. What approach do you take to introducing the sport?

I would say, person has to have big influence/ fund in media business.
Afterall, this is not very realistic, was more of a joke.
One single person can hardly change anything.

Originally posted by jfk32
Lets see here... what is the criteria for being an "introducer" exactly? Being a great rider? In that case we have the greatest of all riders for the past four years in Lance, yet the American public is still largely disinterested. What approach do you take to introducing the sport?

I think Lance is a great guy but don't think he's the greatest rider for the past 4 years.

He is the TdF winner for that time, but he specialises in it.

When he wins the Tour, Giro and World Championship all in the same year, he'll be a great rider.

As a man, following recovery from cancer, he's an awesome inspiration