Bicycle Mechanics - Threaded headset: help!

Here is a threaded headset I bought a couple weeks ago. I never installed one, so I have a few, potentially dumb, questions (please refer to the pic):

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o197/old_fool/bikeparts/threaded-headset.jpg

The cups, c and d; which is the bottom and which one is the top cup? They seem quite similar, except one is a bit "deeper" (d), and is matte, while the other is glossy/shiny.

Is the race f unnecessary? Or does it somehow fit in the threaded cup g? I can't seem to make this work. The order of mounting seems to be d - e - g (or c - e - g, depending on the answer to the previous question), but then I have an extra race (a or f), and that can't be, can it?

c=bottom cup
d=top cup
from bottom, i think it's:
A
B
c
headtube
d
e
f or g, can't tell if f fits over the bearings
h
i

The deeper of the two cups goes on the bottom of the head tube.

Other than that, you appear to have everything in the correct order.

Do yourself a favor and replace the caged bearings with loose bearings. This is a far superior method, especially with headsets. Search the forum for "loose bearings" and you'll find many discussions of this.

If you do install the caged bearings be aware that there is a right and wrong way to install them. Unfortunately, a good way to describe this does not come immediately to mind.

Now, about that "spare" race. I'm going to assume that "a" is your new crown race. It's hard to tell from your picture. You need to remove the old crown race from your fork and replace it with your new one. Search on "crown race" for lot's of discussions on removal and replacement. No need to rehash that here for the thousanth time.

It's possible that "f" is an additional crown race with a different I.D. Measure the I.D. of "a" and "f" and see if they are the same. "f" could fit in between the bearing set and the threaded race, but it's hard to tell from a picture. Most threadless headsets I've seen don't have an "f".

For more on threaded headset servicing, etc, see:

http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=127

As you will find out, there are two I.D. standards for crown races:

J.I.S. = 27.0mm
I.S.O. (or "modern European") = 26.4mm

Measure the inside diameters of your "a" and "f" pieces. That may answer a few of these questions.

a goes on on the fork
b inbetween w/ grease
c goes in the bottom tube

d goes in top tube
e inbetwee w/ grease
f
g
h
i

Thanks a LOT, much obliged. Now, a few comments/questions/replies:


The deeper of the two cups goes on the bottom of the head tube.

Other than that, you appear to have everything in the correct order.

Do yourself a favor and replace the caged bearings with loose bearings. This is a far superior method, especially with headsets. Search the forum for "loose bearings" and you'll find many discussions of this.


I might do that later on; for now I'd like to try to install the stuff as it is. Also, I have some reasons to like caged bearings (well, ok: mostly because I'm a klutz).




If you do install the caged bearings be aware that there is a right and wrong way to install them. Unfortunately, a good way to describe this does not come immediately to mind.


Yeah, this is what parktools says:



Retainers have only one correct orientation. The open side of the ball retainer should face the cone shaped race, not the cup shaped race.

BUT... I tried both orientation, and under any amount of pressure, the "wrong" way of orienting the retainer seems to be eminently "right", as it is way smoother. I might remove the retainer (have loose bearings), just to remove the dilemma :)





Now, about that "spare" race. I'm going to assume that "a" is your new crown race. It's hard to tell from your picture. You need to remove the old crown race from your fork and replace it with your new one. Search on "crown race" for lot's of discussions on removal and replacement. No need to rehash that here for the thousanth time.

It's possible that "f" is an additional crown race with a different I.D. Measure the I.D. of "a" and "f" and see if they are the same.


You are right, their inner diameter differs: one is 26.6 or 26.7 mm, the other is 27 mm exactly. The latter doesn't seem to be suited for my fork, as it will freely fall onto the crown race seat.

Whoa, all my questions answered! Thanks!

It's funny that more headsets don't just include both ISO and JIS crown races. It's really a good idea. Yes, Park does have a decent explanation of caged bearings. Thank goodness for that ;-)))

Really, do go with loose bearings. It's sooooo much better.

Glad you got all your questions sorted out ;-)

Best luck!

I can't tell from your pictures but the pressed-in cups (items c & d in the photo) often have the manufacturer's name and/or logo printed or engraved on them. The cups should be installed so the logo(s) read upright. That will certainly tell you which cup is which.

BUT... I tried both orientation, and under any amount of pressure, the "wrong" way of orienting the retainer seems to be eminently "right", as it is way smoother. I might remove the retainer (have loose bearings), just to remove the dilemma :)It appears that the way you have them oriented in the picture is right. The curved "fingers" that hold the bearings should be facing the cups. Then looking at the cup with the bearings installed, you should be able to see the open space between the bearings. The "open" side of the retainers face the cone.

ok, here's the deal: I purchased the fork together with the frame, but now that I installed the headset, I notice that the fork's tube has been cut too short. I can't thread on the locknut (i) at all. In fact, there's no room for the washer/spacer (h) either. But the threaded cup alone seems to hold quote well. If I add loctite and tie down the threaded cup real strong, do I have a chance of not killing myself? I am a rather light man (64 Kg).

Aha! You forgot about headset stack height. What is the difference between the length of your headtube and the length of your steerer (measured all the way from the bottom of the crown race seat). or just post both measurements so we can see if it sounds right.

Aha! You forgot about headset stack height. What is the difference between the length of your headtube and the length of your steerer (measured all the way from the bottom of the crown race seat). or just post both measurements so we can see if it sounds right.


When I thread on the threaded cup, there's nothing left of the steerer. Not even a millimeter.

The frame and fork were sold to me as a set, so no, I did not forget about it. Yeah, I've been had. Now laugh.

try to find a headset with a smaller stack and something that uses cylindrical bearings instead of ball bearings. Have you tried Loose screws website for anything? You might be able to get a thinner lockring washer.

Yes, but different HS have different stack heights. We don't have enough info. If you give us some measurements we will be able to tell you if there's any hope. All is not necessarily lost (yet).

What is the difference between the length of your headtube and the length of your steerer (measured all the way from the bottom of the crown race seat). or just post both measurements so we can see if it sounds right.

ok:

length of steerer, measured from the bottom of crown race seat: 154 mm

Headtube length: 131 mm


So, there's a difference of 23 mm. That seems like a lot, to a greenhorn like me, but what do you guys think?

23mm stack height is pretty low on threaded stems. You might be able to find one. Oh, the thing with taking out the retainer and putting ball bearings in, you'll need more bearings.

You aren't dead yet, you can always find a new fork.

I think there are some Chris King's around that are rumored to have a 27mm? stack height, but even that's not short enough. The average new threaded HS, and probably yours, is around 38mm, You need to look to swap your fork for one with a 169mm (or slightly longer - and you can cut & thread them shorter) steerer. Sorry :(

I think there are some Chris King's around that are rumored to have a 27mm? stack height, but even that's not short enough. The average new threaded HS, and probably yours, is around 38mm, You need to look to swap your fork for one with a 169mm (or slightly longer - and you can cut & thread them shorter) steerer. Sorry :(

Thank you, and thanks astrodaimler; a new fork it is. To tell you the truth, I didn't like this fork anyway. I hope I'll get a lighter one.

I ordered a brand new fork, and decided to go with loose balls.

go to a pro shop they can face the head tube top and bottom abouy 3/16 on each side, that would give you more threads on the steering tube.

go to a pro shop they can face the head tube top and bottom abouy 3/16 on each side, that would give you more threads on the steering tube.

Why do you keep digging up my long-dead threads?