Advocacy & Safety - How do you deal with "walkers" on the bike trail?

This is really pissing me off lately, I don't see why the runners need to be there (and not on the designated running area next to it, which actually has softer material that causes lower impact to the joints than concrete) but the walkers drive me mad! Seriously, you can walk anywhere in the city. Its not even good exercise so why do these bastards need to be on the bike trail? There are sidewalks all over uptown dallas but they need to occupy the one place that you can ride at a high speed for any distance in the whole city (while not even staying on the right side! sometimes 2 chicks that aren't fat will take up 90% of the width of the trail!).

Got any advice?

I would love to put some pegs on my bike and dig into them like I used to dig them into bags of leaves when I was a punk pre-teen/teenager.

I like to yell "Coming up behind you" when I get close and watch them scatter like a covey of quail.

My advice is to remove yourself from the MUP and ride in the streets where it's faster and safer, anyway.

I like to yell "Coming up behind you" when I get close and watch them scatter like a covey of quail.

I would probably lose my voice after a half mile. It's bad when people are not at work. I went out at 7:30ish tonight thinking its close to getting dark, people won't be out. But they were, it was tolerable but still pretty bad.

I am thinking of getting a light for my bike so I can go after its dark. The trail is not lit up at all (that I have noticed), will one of those multiple LED lights be enough?

Hmmmm, Is it an exclusive bike-only path with signs to match at all entrances? Or is it an MUP (Multi User Path)? Sometimes whistling, yelling and even little bells are of no use. You will just have to slow down and try to get them out of your way. Hit one and it's Vehicular Assult. I have mostly given up on urban "bike paths".

Some LED lights might work. I use a 35 watt Halogen light and would like to have more. Our local bike paths have people on them at all hours. Even dark clothing and no lights. Some paths are NOT places you want to be at night. Local bike groups are working with the police to try to change that.

I just started biking again after 10 years so I do not feel comfortable in the streets. Plus this is the city, lots of lights everywhere and bad roads. I never see anyone riding in the street unless it is a scheduled group ride with 20 or so people. Other than that people stick to the sidewalks, which suck because they are interrupted every 100 feet by streets and another curb. Which is why I say, let the people walking go there, they will not even notice it at their leisurely pace.

Hmmmm, Is it an exclusive bike-only path with signs to match at all entrances? Or is it an MUP (Multi User Path)? Sometimes whistling, yelling and even little bells are of no use. You will just have to slow down and try to get them out of your way. Hit one and it's Vehicular Assult. I have mostly given up on urban "bike paths".

http://www.katytraildallas.org/site/DocServer/KatyTrailDallasMap.pdf?docID=121

There is a seperate runners path that most do not stay on. Runners and walkers outnumber the bikers and rollerbladers by around 50 to 1, maybe more. Mob rule!

Some LED lights might work. I use a 35 watt Halogen light and would like to have more. Our local bike paths have people on them at all hours. Even dark clothing and no lights. Some paths are NOT places you want to be at night. Local bike groups are working with the police to try to change that.

I'm not sure if it is safe, but I can handle myself. I really doubt it is that dangerous because the only problem in this area seems to be property crime. I just can't see many people being on there late at night.

My advice is to remove yourself from the MUP and ride in the streets where it's faster and safer, anyway.


+1!!

Bicycles are vehicles of the ROAD! Unless you're prepared to cycle at a walking pace, get off the MUP and ride on the road where we belong.

I refuse to ride on a MUP unless it is absolutely necessary ... no other way to avoid some sort of road hazard.

Bye a good Japanese bell, it really works:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnL4fjMzsSU

By a good Japanese bell, it really works:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnL4fjMzsSU

Location, location, location...

Get off the MUP, or bike path, or whatever you call it. Ride on the street. Obviously, you require some more space and freedom of movement. The road is the place for cyclists that want to go fast - not a multi-use path. The fact that you point out the disparity of numbers should tell you something...

get a horn, a bell is better. It FEELS better than having to shout warnings. I think it bugs people more too. Annoy them,whether they "deserve" to be there may not matter, just annoy them.They're annoying you!!. A bell or horn lets you keep it "legal" to bug 'em.

By the way, Venice CA. has a path for EVERYONE, to say to someone "ride the streets" is not fair. Try riding the streets in LA enjoying the ride,easier said than done.Few places ,much less urban areas aren't biker friendly as the Pacific Northwest. NYC and that area is tough,coastal NC where I am now,the beach areas belong to ALL, not just pedestrians.As far as the streets,they certainly DON'T belong to cyclists.

Get a bell. Use it a lot. The more ineptly they react the closer you pass by them. They learn.
I see it in Amsterdam all the time - tourists that are freaking clueless about bikes. They learn alright, oh they learn.

I yell "passing on your left". If they are walking on the left, I dramatically hit the brakes if they dont move. Then I inform them that on the path we must keep right and pass left. You have to educate these people or they'll never change their behavior.

There's only one way... Poulan baybee!



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/07/TheTexasChainSawMassacre-poster.jpg

Got any advice?

.


get out of the city and go live in the country.

only city folk would begrudge anybody walkin room on this good earth. ;)

Ride the MUP early in the morning. Like at 6:30 or even earlier. You'll see a few serious runners and/or bikers but not a single walker at that time of day.

Other than that ride the roads during the day or be ready to ride slow on the MUP.

I commute by MUP, but I use the morning ride as a workout and the afternoon ride I just take easy until I get to the deserted section of path. If I'm in a rush to get home in the evening I will go on streets, it is much faster at that time of day.

http://www.cyclepartsonline.com.au/images/honka.jpg
I found a Honka Hooter to be more effective then a bell.

doesn't happen often here but yeah, it annoys me when people have a perfectly good jogging path/sidewalk and they have to jog (the opposite way no less) on the bike lane.

First I think his name says it all, propagandhi, which is a variation of propaganda. I also think this junior troll is baiting us, but what the hell, I'll bite & call him or her JT for short.

JT, have you ever tried to find out of the trail or trails you mention are MUPS's, or if it is exclusivley for cyclists only? Or for that matter for walkers, roller bladders, et al only? If you haven't you may want to do so before opening up your mouth & spouting off some stupid diatribe that probably has no bases, despite your personal feelings. Even so this is not the place to vent that sort of attitude toward trail users.

Sure it can be frustrating to share a trail with other users who do not obey the rules of the trail, sometimes even those who do. An MUP is NOT the place to go very fast, especially with other users who move slower then a cyclist on the trail.

My advice: slow your ass down, pass others safely, announce your presence well before passing, do not startle other trail users, do not cause others harm, do not buzz other users, find out what kind of trail it is, stop being a punk about it because it sounds like you still are.

If you can't do any of this, then stay the **** off of the trails because it sounds like you can't handle properly sharing them with anyone else & think they should exclusivley be for cyclists & no one else.

Lighten up Francis... this ain't A&S. :)

Lighten up Francis... this ain't A&S. :)

Maybe not Francine, but it should be moved tot he A&S forum. It is an A&S issue. I just requested that it be moved.

Maybe not Francine, but it should be moved tot he A&S forum. It is an A&S issue. I just requested that it be moved.
Why do you want this thread to be killed, or turned in to another discussion about VC and probably a new poll about how to signal properly when passing someone on a MUP? :rolleyes:

Yeah, I feel it needs to stay here!

Let's start a poll!

Go ride to White Rock Lake and get off Katy Trail. Katy Trail is a MUP. Get over it, get on the road.

Only little girls with pink streamers ride on MUPs. Get in the street.

Only little girls with pink streamers ride on MUPs. Get in the street.

Hey, hey, hey now! Don't be busting on pink streamers, they're cool, just ask my little sis, she gave some to me a long time ago to put on my handle bars. Being a good big brother I had to ride with them at least once, so I did. :)

http://brandscycle.com/images/library/large/ral_cupcake_pink_07_m.jpg

Only little girls with pink streamers ride on MUPs. Get in the street.

There's really nothing wrong with MUPs...as long as you use them properly. Riding at walking speed? Don't need to. Being aware of other people using the facility? You betcha!

I've ridden the same MUP for many, many years. I usually go through in the morning when not many people use it or at night...again when not many people are using it. I could take a road but when I can ride for 7 miles without hitting a traffic control device, why whould I? I tend to also avoid using the same trail in the middle of the weekend on a nice day. There are other places to ride that don't have the hassle factor.

The original poster is moaning about peds the same way auto drivers are moaning about us. He should just get over it....otherwise he's just a JAB;)

A lot of serious (and fast cyclists) ride on the MUPs around here. I guess it depends on where you live. If you want to fight the cars and traffic and be a future hospital patient...around here the roads are great. If you want to be safe...MUPs are more for you.

Walkers can't hog the whole trail.

There's really nothing wrong with MUPs...as long as you use them properly. Riding at walking speed? Don't need to. Being aware of other people using the facility? You betcha!

I've ridden the same MUP for many, many years. I usually go through in the morning when not many people use it or at night...again when not many people are using it. I could take a road but when I can ride for 7 miles without hitting a traffic control device, why whould I? I tend to also avoid using the same trail in the middle of the weekend on a nice day. There are other places to ride that don't have the hassle factor.

The original poster is moaning about peds the same way auto drivers are moaning about us. He should just get over it....otherwise he's just a JAB;)


My response was such because the OP is a troll.

My response was such because the OP is a troll.

No, a Junior Troll, or troll in training.

A lot of serious (and fast cyclists) ride on the MUPs around here. I guess it depends on where you live. If you want to fight the cars and traffic and be a future hospital patient...around here the roads are great. If you want to be safe...MUPs are more for you.

Walkers can't hog the whole trail.

You're not implying riding on the roadways are dangerous, are you?

By the way, Venice CA. has a path for EVERYONE, to say to someone "ride the streets" is not fair. Try riding the streets in LA enjoying the ride,easier said than done.Few places ,much less urban areas aren't biker friendly as the Pacific Northwest. NYC and that area is tough,coastal NC where I am now,the beach areas belong to ALL, not just pedestrians.As far as the streets,they certainly DON'T belong to cyclists.

It is no problem at all to ride the streets in Venice. It is funny you should pick that as an example as where the beach bike path goes through Venice is the worst section of the path, and the problem is not pedestrians, but beach cruisers and curves in the path.

Riding bike paths at speed is with a few exceptions simply not safe.

Of course the path through Venice does have some compensations, but what good is the scenery if you go flying by?

By the way, Venice CA. has a path for EVERYONE, to say to someone "ride the streets" is not fair. Try riding the streets in LA enjoying the ride,easier said than done.Few places ,much less urban areas aren't biker friendly as the Pacific Northwest. NYC and that area is tough,coastal NC where I am now,the beach areas belong to ALL, not just pedestrians.As far as the streets,they certainly DON'T belong to cyclists.

What are you talking about?! Los Angeles has great riding on the streets. Yeah the Beach path is nice if you're there at 6 am or it's raining, otherwise it's for families, walkers, and roller bladers (as it should be).
I personally think that anyone who yells "on your left" at a child while going over 12 mph on a bike path should be punched in the mouth. If you're in a hurry get on the road, paths are for everyone.

I just started biking again after 10 years so I do not feel comfortable in the streets. Plus this is the city, lots of lights everywhere and bad roads. I never see anyone riding in the street unless it is a scheduled group ride with 20 or so people. Other than that people stick to the sidewalks, which suck because they are interrupted every 100 feet by streets and another curb. Which is why I say, let the people walking go there, they will not even notice it at their leisurely pace.

Poor baby!

If you are not comfortable riding in traffic on your own, then join one of the D/FW bike clubs (GDB, PBA, FWBA) and ride with them. They all have rides just about every day of the week.

Or go to a bike shop and get a copy of the Dallas Bike Plan. Although it's a bit out of date, by and large the routes shown use low traffic streets.

Or get a MTB and ride some of the technical trails in the area (www.dorba.org)

Otherwise, slow down and be courteous. Pedestrians and runners have as much right to the trails as you.

If multiple walkers are taking up the whole width of the path, I ring the bell continually until they hear it and move out of the way or if they don't, I screech to a halt right behind them, and with my best deadpan, astonished voice, I say "multiuse paths are for everyone, including cyclists"

When I see someone who wears all black clothes after dark on an unlit path, I yell "NINJA!" as I pass.

If I see someone walking an unleashed dog, I yell "ROADKILL!"

If multiple walkers are taking up the whole width of the path, I ring the bell continually until they hear it and move out of the way or if they don't, I screech to a halt right behind them, and with my best deadpan, astonished voice, I say "multiuse paths are for everyone, including cyclists"

When I see someone who wears all black clothes after dark on an unlit path, I yell "NINJA!" as I pass.

If I see someone walking an unleashed dog, I yell "ROADKILL!"

And when you pass people say to themselves, "@sshole."

And when you pass people say to themselves, "@sshole."

Why, I don't ride THAT fast, usually at the MUP speed limit. They should have plenty of time to move over.

As for the dogs, leashes are mandatory on the MUP.

And black clad people in the dark should know better. They should be thankful I have a powerful headlight.

get a horn, a bell is better. It FEELS better than having to shout warnings. I think it bugs people more too. Annoy them,whether they "deserve" to be there may not matter, just annoy them.They're annoying you!!. A bell or horn lets you keep it "legal" to bug 'em.

Using a bell is the right answer. I find that it seems to bug people less than yelling.

Speedo

You're not implying riding on the roadways are dangerous, are you?

Riding on the roadways are dangerous? Well, that's not exactly how I would word it but I'd hazard a guess that there is some danger involved.

Even if the OP is a troll, I am going through the same issues here in downtown Minneapolis.

If the trail mentioned is a MUP, then there is no room for complaining, and I never complain about it, I make sure not to scare walkers, etc.

Here, we have not only separate trails, but ONE-WAY trails. So, we will have commuter trail with three separated paths--one for walking, and one for each direction of bike travel. But, you get walkers on the bike path, going the wrong way, etc. And everything is not only clearly signed, it's painted on the path!

We have other paths that are both-way bike paths with a separate walker's path. The speed limit is clearly 10mph. If I want to go faster than 10mph, I go in the street, but when I am winding down or taking a break and want to go 8 or 9mph, then I go on the path to avoid being slaughtered by cars using the scenic route as a rush hour route. So, even when I am following all the rules, I still run into walkers on the bike path, even though the walking path is next to it separated by 2 feet of grass and both paths are clearly signed.

How do I handle it? It depends on how the walkers handle it. If you have two people taking up the whole path, make eye contact, but still don't move over, then I buzz them. I don't make contact, but they certainly feel my wind. If they make an effort to move, I kindly remind them that there is a separate path because they will get hurt on the bike path. I never say "on your left" because they will run left. I would rather come up behind them, slow down, change gears, and they move when they hear the gears. There is one exception to all of this--about a 1/2-mile strech where the walking trail joins the bike path for a short time to get around some water, but then the walking path separates again, but the separation isn't signed, so I don't get on people's cases in that area.

If I see kids either walking or riding on the path going 1mph, I go out of my way to make sure I don't startle them or scare them.

So, again, if the trail is MUP or you want to go above the speed limit (if there is one), then get in the street. If you are on an exclusive bike path and not speeding on it, then you have every right to complain about it.

Not everyone on this board is a serious bicyclist who goes 50 miles a day at traffic speeds or enjoys riling up traffic just because it's their right to be in traffic.

This season I have just been avoiding problem areas like the Minneapolis lakes trail systems. Don't even get me started.

P.S. A lot of runners run at the speed limit on the bike paths, so they don't bother me unless they take up the whole trail.

Riding on the roadways are dangerous? Well, that's not exactly how I would word it but I'd hazard a guess that there is some danger involved.

I think a better word would have been risk, or risky. There is risk associated with riding on the roadways, but there is also risk associated with driving on the roadways too. IMO the risk is the same in terms of having an accident or getting hit on purpose. But it is not dangerous.

As an ex-Dallasite, I'm pretty sure the OP (who hasn't replied? hmm troll?) is talking about Katy Trail, which is a VERY busy MUP.

Like I said, OP, get thee to White Rock Lake and leave Katy Trail to the joggers and rollerbladers. Seriously.

I think a good solution is to work with the agency responsible for the trail. Work with them to improve the notification, education, wording & language that describes who is allowed to use the path, plus what ever rules, regulations, ordinance & laws that govern the use of the path that all users are to follow. Another possible method is to activley enforce the rules et al if there is a way to do that.

There's really nothing wrong with MUPs...as long as you use them properly. Riding at walking speed? Don't need to. Being aware of other people using the facility? You betcha!

I've ridden the same MUP for many, many years. I usually go through in the morning when not many people use it or at night...again when not many people are using it. I could take a road but when I can ride for 7 miles without hitting a traffic control device, why whould I? I tend to also avoid using the same trail in the middle of the weekend on a nice day. There are other places to ride that don't have the hassle factor.

The original poster is moaning about peds the same way auto drivers are moaning about us. He should just get over it....otherwise he's just a JAB;)

+1

I love the mup, it runs along the river I get 12 miles of NO traffic No lights ... and at 7am I have it mostly to myself.

riding the road along this MUP is not a good idea its very twisty and no shoulder for 8 out of the 12 miles, the shoulders are 20" rain ditches ,not fun if you have to get out of the way.

the afternoon on the MUP can be a little busy(but good scenery) im not in a hurry going home so It works for me.

the only pain in the butt that ive come across

1) people walking dogs and they want you to stop so you dont scare their dog/s

2) in isolated stretches of the MUP Teens hang out by the dozens and wont move off the pavement
I stopped once and asked them to please move they all grumbled and gave me the finger as I rode off.
calling the police wont help as this section is landlocked for a few miles just woods and backyards.

"John"

but for the most part NO PROB!

Seriously, you can walk anywhere in the city. Its not even good exercise so why do these bastards need to be on the bike trail? There are sidewalks all over uptown dallas but they need to occupy the one place that you can ride at a high speed for any distance in the whole city (while not even staying on the right side! sometimes 2 chicks that aren't fat will take up 90% of the width of the trail!).

Got any advice?

I would love to put some pegs on my bike and dig into them like I used to dig them into bags of leaves when I was a punk pre-teen/teenager.

Good lord if you're not a troll you really need to chill out. I don't jog, but I'd take a bike bath for a sidewalk with curbs and uprooted cement from trees anyday.

Share the path or do what the above posters said - get off it.

What are you talking about?! Los Angeles has great riding on the streets. Yeah the Beach path is nice if you're there at 6 am or it's raining, otherwise it's for families, walkers, and roller bladers (as it should be).
I personally think that anyone who yells "on your left" at a child while going over 12 mph on a bike path should be punched in the mouth. If you're in a hurry get on the road, paths are for everyone.

I'd say the path is OK til about 8. Even later than that parts are still pretty nice, other parts are a zoo. I agree with what I think is the spirit of the 12 year olds part. However I often say 'on your left' when passing, but do so before I am there and do NOT go flying past. Honestly I have had fewer problems with kids than with adults. Once a kid realizes you want to pass he will try to make it easy. Not so with adults. At least that is my experience.