"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - No Tour for Basso

Looks like the the Tour organizers are still going to keep the riders in the OP investigation out of the Tour. Ivan may have to submit DNA in he wants to race.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/apr07/apr20news2

I'll bet Levi is sitting there with either a smug grin on his face, or a sigh of relief.

And I'll bet Disco is warming up their legal engine for the battle that undoubtedly will ensue. The article quotes: "I have asked the teams not to use those named riders"

Does this mean the teams absolutely can't use those named riders, or that he's asking but discretion remains with the teams? And if it's the first, then what is to stop anyone from launching a farse investigation, naming riders, and ruining their careers?

And I'll bet Disco is warming up their legal engine for the battle that undoubtedly will ensue.

Not sure Disco wants to go to the mat on this one right now. With the need to sign a new sponsor for next year their support for Basso might be less than all out.

I was going to say stick a fork in UCI racing, it's DONE, but they have already seen to that.

http://www.xsltblog.com/archives/24805BP~The-Simpsons-Mr-Burns-Excellent.jpg

Friggin IDIOTS.

And until there is some real proof that Basso is linked then how can they really keep him out. A name that may or may not be the same as one of his dogs? Get real. And the phone conversation about the Italian leading the Giro doesn't say anything about that Italian being a client...from what I understand they were talking about another rider and referenced Basso (who obviously was the Italian leading the Giro).

Clearly Jan was....Jan duh. And hot about Valverde? His nickname is pretty obviously used as are several of the Astana riders.

And until there is some real proof that Basso is linked then how can they really keep him out. A name that may or may not be the same as one of his dogs? Get real. And the phone conversation about the Italian leading the Giro doesn't say anything about that Italian being a client...from what I understand they were talking about another rider and referenced Basso (who obviously was the Italian leading the Giro).

Clearly Jan was....Jan duh. And hot about Valverde? His nickname is pretty obviously used as are several of the Astana riders.


Yeah how can Birillo be a clear cut connection to Basso but Valve is not at all connected to Valverde.

notice that the picture in cyclingnews is tilted sideways like the old batman movies during villain shots. looks like a hitler speech or something:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2007/tour07/presentation/Par985889.jpg

notice that the picture in cyclingnews is tilted sideways like the old batman movies during villain shots. looks like a hitler speech or something:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2007/tour07/presentation/Par985889.jpg
Holy crap Batman. Been reading here for a while and this just might be the first reference I have seen to Hitler. :eek:

Maybe Basso could just submit his DNA and this would all be taken care of.

I believe that Disco can field an awfully good team even without Basso.

It's time for Popovych and Danielson to step it up. I also think Contador could win a grand tour at some point. You never know about Levi.

Disco has some awesome talent on their squad...and they are a very deep team too.

Maybe Basso could just submit his DNA and this would all be taken care of.
Nah the next argument that woul dbe made is that just because he didn't currently have blood banked at the lab doesn't clear him. There aren't enough bags of blood to cover all of the names...Jan was responsible for 9 of them all by himself.

Hmmm, the legal system must work differently over in Europe. Here in the States, you're innocent until proven guilty, and without evidence, guilt is kinda tough to prove. Those Euros must be some damn legal geniuses if they can prove guilt without evidence!

Nah the next argument that woul dbe made is that just because he didn't currently have blood banked at the lab doesn't clear him. There aren't enough bags of blood to cover all of the names...Jan was responsible for 9 of them all by himself.
If Basso submits DNA and it comes back that he was not involved in peurto, I would think alot of people would give him the benefit of the doubt. You can't think he's innocent just because he rides for disco.

Yup remeber in France you can be arrested without proof...

I also think Contador could win a grand tour at some point. You never know about Levi.
Contador was also named in Puerto at one point...but then cleared by Spanish courts...sort of like Basso was cleared by Italian courts. IMO if Basso can't ride then neither can Contador, or any of these other guys:

Here is the list of riders named:

Teams
Astana-Würth
Allan Davis – removed from the case by Spanish courts (July 26), investigation closed by the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority (December 14).
Joseba Beloki – removed from the case by Spanish courts (July 26).
Alberto Contador – removed from the case by Spanish courts (July 26).
David Etxebarría
Jörg Jaksche
Isidro Nozal – removed from the case by Spanish courts (July 26).
Unai Osa
Sérgio Paulinho – removed from the case by Spanish courts (July 26).
Michele Scarponi
Marcos Serrano
Ángel Vicioso
Comunidad Valenciana
Vicente Ballester – removed from the case by Spanish courts (July 28).
David Bernabeu – removed from the case by Spanish courts (July 28).
David Blanco – removed from the case by Spanish courts (July 28).
José Adrián Bonilla – removed from the case by Spanish courts (July 28).
Juan Gomis – removed from the case by Spanish courts (July 28).
Eladio Jiménez – removed from the case by Spanish courts (July 28).
David Latasa – removed from the case by Spanish courts (July 28).
Javier Pascual Rodríguez – removed from the case by Spanish courts (July 28).
Rubén Plaza – removed from the case by Spanish courts (July 28).

Individuals
AG2R Prévoyance
Francisco Mancebo – initially retired from cycling, but having severed ties with AG2R, joined Spanish professional continental team Relax-Gam.
Caisse d'Epargne-Illes Balears
Constantino Zaballa
Team CSC
Ivan Basso – contract with CSC was terminated by mutual agreement (October 18), case was dropped by the Federazione Ciclistica Italiana due to lack of evidence (October 27), has since been employed by Discovery Channel.
Phonak Hearing Systems
José Enrique Gutiérrez
Santiago Botero – case dropped by disciplinary committee of the Federación Colombiana de Ciclismo (October 2).
Saunier Duval-Prodir
Carlos Zárate
T-Mobile Team
Óscar Sevilla
Jan Ullrich
Unibet
Carlos García Quesada

Already retired or suspended
Ángel Casero
Tyler Hamilton
Roberto Heras
Santiago Pérez
Marco Pantani (deceased)

Hmmm, the legal system must work differently over in Europe. Here in the States, you're innocent until proven guilty, and without evidence, guilt is kinda tough to prove. Those Euros must be some damn legal geniuses if they can prove guilt without evidence!
I can't prove Barry Bonds is guilty but that doesn't mean he is innocent. Cycling wants to remove any doubt about their riders and not turn the sport into a circus.

Yup remeber in France you can be arrested without proof...

And that certainly couldn't happen in the US.

Yup remeber in France you can be arrested without proof...
And the USA as well

Contador was also named in Puerto at one point...but then cleared by Spanish courts...sort of like Basso was cleared by Italian courts. IMO if Basso can't ride then neither can Contador, or any of these other guys:

Here is the list of riders named:

Teams
Astana-Würth
Allan Davis – removed from the case by Spanish courts (July 26), investigation closed by the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority (December 14).
Joseba Beloki – removed from the case by Spanish courts (July 26).
Alberto Contador – removed from the case by Spanish courts (July 26).
David Etxebarría
Jörg Jaksche
Isidro Nozal – removed from the case by Spanish courts (July 26).
Unai Osa
Sérgio Paulinho – removed from the case by Spanish courts (July 26).
Michele Scarponi
Marcos Serrano
Ángel Vicioso
Comunidad Valenciana
Vicente Ballester – removed from the case by Spanish courts (July 28).
David Bernabeu – removed from the case by Spanish courts (July 28).
David Blanco – removed from the case by Spanish courts (July 28).
José Adrián Bonilla – removed from the case by Spanish courts (July 28).
Juan Gomis – removed from the case by Spanish courts (July 28).
Eladio Jiménez – removed from the case by Spanish courts (July 28).
David Latasa – removed from the case by Spanish courts (July 28).
Javier Pascual Rodríguez – removed from the case by Spanish courts (July 28).
Rubén Plaza – removed from the case by Spanish courts (July 28).

Individuals
AG2R Prévoyance
Francisco Mancebo – initially retired from cycling, but having severed ties with AG2R, joined Spanish professional continental team Relax-Gam.
Caisse d'Epargne-Illes Balears
Constantino Zaballa
Team CSC
Ivan Basso – contract with CSC was terminated by mutual agreement (October 18), case was dropped by the Federazione Ciclistica Italiana due to lack of evidence (October 27), has since been employed by Discovery Channel.
Phonak Hearing Systems
José Enrique Gutiérrez
Santiago Botero – case dropped by disciplinary committee of the Federación Colombiana de Ciclismo (October 2).
Saunier Duval-Prodir
Carlos Zárate
T-Mobile Team
Óscar Sevilla
Jan Ullrich
Unibet
Carlos García Quesada

Already retired or suspended
Ángel Casero
Tyler Hamilton
Roberto Heras
Santiago Pérez
Marco Pantani (deceased)
Fine with me , except for Pantani, he can ride.

I believe that Disco can field an awfully good team even without Basso.

It's time for Popovych and Danielson to step it up. I also think Contador could win a grand tour at some point. You never know about Levi.

Disco has some awesome talent on their squad...and they are a very deep team too.
i would just like to mirror this statement except for one thing...danielson is over-rated. Popo and Contador are overlooked, I think Alberto is one of the best talents in cycling and Popo under his guidance will do well.

i would love to see Levi be the GC man for disco in basso's absence.

Levi's certainly showing himself capable thus far in climbing and time-trialing, the two skills a GC contender needs.

And until there is some real proof that Basso is linked then how can they really keep him out.
How did they last year?

This isn't about fairness; it's about the "higher judgements" of a few bureaucrats.

Hmmm, the legal system must work differently over in Europe. Here in the States, you're innocent until proven guilty, and without evidence, guilt is kinda tough to prove. Those Euros must be some damn legal geniuses if they can prove guilt without evidence!
No legal system is involved in any of this. The Spanish courts tossed it and no other has taken it up. Why would they? There's no hard evidence and in some cases no law broken.

That's the difference between US and Europe. Here we have rule of law; there they have rule of bureaucracy.

This news really sucks. I had my money on Basso winning it all.

Levi's certainly showing himself capable thus far in climbing and time-trialing, the two skills a GC contender needs.

You do remember the Tour last year, don't you?

How did they last year?

This isn't about fairness; it's about the "higher judgements" of a few bureaucrats.
Yes but last year there was a suspicion and some evidence that needed to be reviewed. Due to the fact that they didn't get to the courts I can see why Basso and the others were banned. But now that he and several others have been "cleared" by their governing bodies I don't think they should be banned unless there is some actual solid evidence that they did something.

Hey if the dude did it and you can prove it then I will bash the guy and will line up with those that say keep him out, but with the weak links they have I don't see it, especially not in the name of fairness.

Here in the States, you're innocent until proven guilty, and without evidence, guilt is kinda tough to prove.


:D :D :D HAHAHA.... oh goodness... you just made my day! In the age of Guantanamo Bay and the Patriot Act I think the US of A leads the world in arresting people that haven't been proven guilty.

Just think of Maher Arar, my dear friend....

Levi's certainly showing himself capable thus far in climbing and time-trialing, the two skills a GC contender needs.
I want Levi to do well but chances are strong to fairly strong he won't top ten. I think he was 16th last year on GC?

:D :D :D HAHAHA.... oh goodness... you just made my day! In the age of Guantanamo Bay and the Patriot Act I think the US of A leads the world in arresting people that haven't been proven guilty.

Just think of Maher Arar, my dear friend....

They won't know who that is, their news would never report something like that.

I thought this was about Basso, not world politics?? May be its just me.

I thought this was about Basso, not world politics?? May be its just me.


Apparently, if you are a fan of Discovery, it means you're a mouth-breathing, knuckle-dragging, gun-toting, right-wing, Muslim-hating, wife-beating half-wit.

Couldn't be that we're just cycling fans, could it?

What's wrong with removing all doubt that riders are cheating. T-Mobile and CSC are leading the way with their own testing, prove your clean and you can race. Cycling and its fans want to be sure they are cheering for clean athletes, otherwise the sport is dead and being disappointed that someone tested positive will be all to common. If I were Basso and had nothing to hide, I would be doing anything I could to clear my name. He has offered to give a DNA sample but only if asked by a certain few. Not nearly enough for me to not be suspicious.

Apparently, if you are a fan of Discovery, it means you're a mouth-breathing, knuckle-dragging, gun-toting, right-wing, Muslim-hating, wife-beating half-wit.

Couldn't be that we're just cycling fans, could it?


Personally, I just enjoy cycling an couldnt give a crap about the rest of the bs.:p

What's wrong with removing all doubt that riders are cheating. T-Mobile and CSC are leading the way with their own testing, prove your clean and you can race. Cycling and its fans want to be sure they are cheering for clean athletes, otherwise the sport is dead and being disappointed that someone tested positive will be all to common. If I were Basso and had nothing to hide, I would be doing anything I could to clear my name. He has offered to give a DNA sample but only if asked by a certain few. Not nearly enough for me to not be suspicious.

Nothing. However the tests that are being done to catch the riders are clearly not trustworthy nor is the lab that is tasked with carrying them out. Until the process and the people leading the process are above reproach we the fans will really never know the truth. The connection to OP and Basso is tenuous at best, not nearly as clear as the one to Jan and even less obvious than Valve is to Valverde. Assuming that none of the bags of blood can be linked to Basso through DNA is it fair for him to be banned from competing in the biggest bike race of the year on word Birillo? On this one word he could not compete, but just because his DNA didn't match the blood confiscated the assumption is that they just didn't find his blood. Basso can not prove a negative so he's out because of Birillo. We are talking about his livelyhood not to mention his passion and his dream.

The other very important thing to remember is that the ProTour teams signed an agreement that states that no rider under investigation for doping can compete. Period. So if the UCI opens an investigation into Basso's connection to Fuetes then he's out regardless.

They won't know who that is, their news would never report something like that.
you mean this guy?


Maher Arar (Arabic: ماهر عرار; born 1970 in Syria) is a Canadian software engineer. On September 26, 2002, during a stopover in New York en route from Tunis to Montreal, Arar was detained by the United States Immigration and Naturalization Service who may have been acting upon information supplied by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP).[1] Despite carrying a Canadian passport, he was forcibly removed to Syria. Although Canadian (initially) and American officials characterized his removal to Syria as a deportation, there is no record that Arar's removal was ordered by a court or senior Department of Homeland Security official. Therefore, his removal is characterized as administrative removal or extraordinary rendition. Arar was held in solitary confinement in a Syrian prison where he was regularly tortured for almost a year, until his eventual release and return to Canada in October 2003.[2] Syria concluded that he had no terrorist links.[3]

Back in Canada, Arar claimed that he had been tortured in Syria and sought to clear his name. Arar's case reached new heights of controversy after Juliet O'Neill wrote an article in the Ottawa Citizen on November 8, 2003, containing information leaked to her from an unknown security source, possibly within the RCMP. The secret documents provided by her source suggested Arar was a trained member of an al-Qaida terrorist cell. The RCMP later raided O'Neill's house pursuant to search warrants it had obtained to investigate the leak.[4] The raid was widely denounced in the media. Moreover, it led to a public inquiry in Canada "into the actions of Canadian officials dealing with the deportation and detention" of Arar. The Inquiry, led by Dennis O'Connor, Associate Chief Justice of Ontario, exonerated Arar, criticized the RCMP's handling of the file and concluded that there was no evidence that he was a security threat to Canada or a member of a terrorist organization. O'Connor also recommended that Canada protest how Arar was treated by the United States. The United States refused to participate in the inquiry and, until January 2007, refused to share its own evidence with Canadian officials. The Bush administration also maintains that Arar's removal to Syria was legal and well within its right.[5]

you mean this guy?


Maher Arar (Arabic: ماهر عرار; born 1970 in Syria) is a Canadian software engineer. On September 26, 2002, during a stopover in New York en route from Tunis to Montreal, Arar was detained by the United States Immigration and Naturalization Service who may have been acting upon information supplied by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP).[1] Despite carrying a Canadian passport, he was forcibly removed to Syria. Although Canadian (initially) and American officials characterized his removal to Syria as a deportation, there is no record that Arar's removal was ordered by a court or senior Department of Homeland Security official. Therefore, his removal is characterized as administrative removal or extraordinary rendition. Arar was held in solitary confinement in a Syrian prison where he was regularly tortured for almost a year, until his eventual release and return to Canada in October 2003.[2] Syria concluded that he had no terrorist links.[3]

Back in Canada, Arar claimed that he had been tortured in Syria and sought to clear his name. Arar's case reached new heights of controversy after Juliet O'Neill wrote an article in the Ottawa Citizen on November 8, 2003, containing information leaked to her from an unknown security source, possibly within the RCMP. The secret documents provided by her source suggested Arar was a trained member of an al-Qaida terrorist cell. The RCMP later raided O'Neill's house pursuant to search warrants it had obtained to investigate the leak.[4] The raid was widely denounced in the media. Moreover, it led to a public inquiry in Canada "into the actions of Canadian officials dealing with the deportation and detention" of Arar. The Inquiry, led by Dennis O'Connor, Associate Chief Justice of Ontario, exonerated Arar, criticized the RCMP's handling of the file and concluded that there was no evidence that he was a security threat to Canada or a member of a terrorist organization. O'Connor also recommended that Canada protest how Arar was treated by the United States. The United States refused to participate in the inquiry and, until January 2007, refused to share its own evidence with Canadian officials. The Bush administration also maintains that Arar's removal to Syria was legal and well within its right.[5]Do you remember seeing this on the news or did you just google it?

Do you remember seeing this on the news or did you just google it?
I listened to the whole thing on Nat'l Public Radio a while back. You're right though. It didn't get a whole lot of coverage on mainstream media.

I believe the whole reason the cases were dropped in Spain and Italy is due to blood and names of football (soccer) players from Spain, Italy, France, etc. were also found and no country especially world cup winning Italy wants their national teams to be investigated. For cycling the names were released and it looked like cyclist were in real trouble but once it was found football player were also involved it just seemed to go away.

I can't prove Barry Bonds is guilty but that doesn't mean he is innocent. Cycling wants to remove any doubt about their riders and not turn the sport into a circus.


WAY too late.

What the hell is all the commotion about? Sounds like for now they're leaving it up to the teams to police themselves. The Tour officials will have a fight on their hands getting Disco to pull Basso.

Hmmm, the legal system must work differently over in Europe. Here in the States, you're innocent until proven guilty, and without evidence, guilt is kinda tough to prove. Those Euros must be some damn legal geniuses if they can prove guilt without evidence!

In most if not all Euro judicial systems it is indeed guilty until proven innocent. Burden of proof is on the DEFENDANT.

What a nightmare.

In most if not all Euro judicial systems it is indeed guilty until proven innocent. Burden of proof is on the DEFENDANT.

What a nightmare.

Just wait till you piss me off and I have you designated an enemy combatant here in the US! :eek:

Just wait till you piss me off and I have you designated an enemy combatant here in the US! :eek:

Perhaps someone outside of CC's drug-hazed world understands what this means.

Then again, probably not.

Perhaps someone outside of CC's drug-hazed world understands what this means.

Then again, probably not.

Think harder.

Think harder.

Duh. Thank you. It's been a long day my little Guantanamo.

This doesn't mean CC isn't on drugs however.

What the hell is all the commotion about? Sounds like for now they're leaving it up to the teams to police themselves. The Tour officials will have a fight on their hands getting Disco to pull Basso.

Not if the UCI or WADA opens an investigation on him or any other ProTour rider. It's in their contract that they cannot ride if they are under investigation for doping.

Duh. Thank you. It's been a long day my little Guantanamo.

This doesn't mean CC isn't on drugs however.

PCad: Do you have a drug problem?

Me: YES, I CAN'T FIND ANY!!!

PCad: Do you have a drug problem?

Me: YES, I CAN'T FIND ANY!!!

The only drug I need are the endorphins my riding generates.

I tried all the other drugs*, they're not as powerful.

*As evidenced by the fact that I have no memory of the 1970's whatsoever. Listen to Dennis Leary's 'Drugs' diatribe which precisely describes my mis-spent youth.

The only drug I need are the endorphins my riding generates. I tried all the other ones, they're not as powerful.

You ain't died till you snorted a little Drano.