I've seen several friends post this on MySpace.com over the last few days. The idea seems a bit misguided to me, buying gas the day after, theoretically means MORE money would be spent that day to also pay for gas used on the protest day, just my two cents :)
"in April 1997, there was a "gas out" conducted nationwide in protest of gas prices.
Gasoline prices dropped 30 cents a gallon overnight.
On May 15th 2007, all myspace members are asked to not go to a gas station in protest of
high gas prices. Gas is now over $3.00 a gallon in most places.
There are 73,000,000+ American members currently on the myspace network, and the
average car takes about 20 to 30 dollars to fill up.
If all myspace members did not go to the pump on the 15th, it would take
$2,200,000,000.00 (that's BILLION) out of the oil companys pockets for just one day,
so please do not go to the gas station on May 15th and lets try to put a dent in the
Middle Eastern oil industry for at least one day.
If you agree (which I cant see why you wouldnt) repost this bulletin repost it with
'Don't pump gas on May 15th"
The BikeForums Team
-adv-
This is an archived thread, you can find the full version of this thread, with images, links and more content here.
I agree. This is a silly idea. If people really wanted to do something about the high prices of gasoline, they should take measures to make real long term reductions in their usage. If enough people did that, it could conceivably reduce demand and prices. A one day protest will do nothing.
super-douper
a no-drive day would be a better way to stage a mass protest. or, a no-buy-gas week.
but how would the masses get to work?!?!
;)
I-Like-To-Bike
a no-drive day would be a better way to stage a mass protest. or, a no-buy-gas week.
but how would the masses get to work?!?!
;)
They could instead spend the week posting dopey ideas on the Internet!:rolleyes:
TimJ
"Middle Eastern oil industry"?
May 15th is a tuesday. How many myspace members are real people, first of all (if there's 70mil accounts maybe, I dunno, there are actually 40 million idividuals represented), and second have a car and would be going to the pumps on tuesday, May 15th in the first place? I would guess that number of people would be statistically insignificant compared to how many gas-buyers don't go to the pumps on any given day anyway. So it's silly just based on the numbers logic.
It's also silly because even if 70 million actual people who were going to buy gas didn't buy gas on a particular Tuesday, it wouldn't effect the price of oil. The price of gas? No, it would do anything to that, either. There's a long chain of in-betweens from crude oil to gas and the gas station is at the end, somewhat isolated. The biggest determinate of gas prices is crude oil prices, the demand component from 70 million car-driving end users on one day is nothing. In order to effect the "Middle Eastern oil industry" you'd have to effect the price of oil, and to do that on the demand end would take something way more monumentally big than 70 million people not buying gasoline for one day.
As a symbolic thing to make yourself feel good, sure, whatever. But there's no possible way it could effect anything. These kind of things bug me because I feel they allow people to tune out, a sort of selective ignorance. People I know who usually pass these sort of things around get really defensive and angry if you point out it won't actually do anything. Often the attitude is something like "at least I'm doing something" or "it would work if everyone were just as active as I am". It's not false hope, it's false reasoning, and wasting time on completely pointless activities convinced you're doing something that would or could effect something really huge, like the oil industry, is a dereliction of duty as a citizen, if you ask me. Basically because it's unreal and it's a fantasy. If you care about changing the world for the better then you need to know enough to realize myspace members not buying gas on a tuesday isn't going to do jack squat on any level.
Wogsterca
a no-drive day would be a better way to stage a mass protest. or, a no-buy-gas week.
but how would the masses get to work?!?!
;)
Hmmm, let's see, well there is the bicycle and walking is still possible, you could skateboard on the downhill and flat sections, walk the uphill ones. My brother-in-law roller bladed to work several times one summer, he biked a lot last year, and did so again today. If you really want motorized travel, there are trains and buses in many places.
fat_bike_nut
Meh.
I've been seeing stuff like this ever since my senior year of high school, and even back then, in my undeveloped, 17-year-old mind, I knew this concept of a "gas protest" to be complete and utter BS. So people stop buying gas for an entire day. Big deal. The oil companies don't care when you buy your gas, because they are still going to get your money, you bunch of dummies :rolleyes:
Besides, HONESTLY...how many people would actually be willing to give up their cars, even for a single day that they normally drive? Not many.
Ganesha
If I was a gas station owner, and no one bought gas for a day, I would raise prices the next day, knowing even more people will be nearly out of gas.
Dahon.Steve
If I was a gas station owner, and no one bought gas for a day, I would raise prices the next day, knowing even more people will be nearly out of gas.
Exactly.
These boycotts are nothing more than wishful thinking, hoping the gas corporations will lower the price of fuel due to a glut. What they don't understand are the days of inexpensive motoring are coming to an end. The high cost of car ownership left them so broke, small fluctuations in fuel prices destroy their finances. This is why the majority of those on this forum including myself became car free.
Personally, I didn't even know the price of gas was back up to $3.00 a gallon.
priu
The funny thing is that, if the movement gathers enough people, the gas stations will be packed the day before. NOTHING will get changed unless they reduce the number of miles they drive - otherwise the boycott is complete junk.
manual_overide
a no drive day would have great effect as people would treat the 16th as the 15th in terms of buying gas. Don't buy gas, sure, but then don't drive either. THAT will have the desired effect as every participant just extended their TBFU (time between fill ups) by ONE whole day.
Alekhine
The funny thing is that, if the movement gathers enough people, the gas stations will be packed the day before. NOTHING will get changed unless they reduce the number of miles they drive - otherwise the boycott is complete junk.
Exactly. You travel the same amount of miles, you use the same amount of gas. I'm pretty sure the oil industry billionaires aren't exactly going to cry over this completely useless and idiotic "protest."
Platy
a no drive day would have great effect as people would treat the 16th as the 15th in terms of buying gas. Don't buy gas, sure, but then don't drive either. THAT will have the desired effect as every participant just extended their TBFU (time between fill ups) by ONE whole day.
As compared with years past, the U. S. gasoline supply this season is roughly a million barrels a week below the demand. That's 6 million gallons a day. To get prices back to, say, 2003 levels they'd need to have a few million motorists go car free for the summer season. The current hope is to make up for the shortfall by importing more finished gasoline from places like France and Japan. Last year they were required by treaty to supply us with gas out of their strategic reserves. This year they aren't. Will it happen? How much will it cost? Stay tuned.
I-Like-To-Bike
The funny thing is that, if the movement gathers enough people, the gas stations will be packed the day before. NOTHING will get changed unless they reduce the number of miles they drive - otherwise the boycott is complete junk.
There isn't anything too funny about a "movement" based on naivety and ignorance.
kc9eog
"in April 1997, there was a "gas out" conducted nationwide in protest of gas prices.
Gasoline prices dropped 30 cents a gallon overnight."
Gas prices were around $1.00 a gallon here then, this message starts out by lying to us...not to mention how dumb the whole idea is!
fat_bike_nut
Once again, I ask, how many people, on days that they normally drive (to work, to run errands, etc.), would be willing to give up driving completely on just one of these days? Not many.
If people can drive, they won't take public transportation. Heck, I'm guilty of this, too...despite the fact that my school has a system of setting students' ID cards to be used as FREE bus passes, I tried it for 2 entire weeks and hated it. I went back to driving, despite the increased price in usage. Based on "hours lost" from driving (including the working hour costs to maintain, fuel, and pay insurance on the car) vs. "hours lost" from riding the bus, both forms are still about equal, even when my car gets stuck in a traffic jam.
If people can drive, they certainly wouldn't ride bicycles everywhere. Too much effort, and "bikes are just toys." Well, I'd ride if I had a bike :D
rajman
Why protest high gas prices? Instead spend less on gas - reducing demand is the only way to have the desired effect.
If you don't like high prices, use less gas, and then you'll be doing your part to lower them, AND save money at the same time. If they really wanted to reduce what they spent on gas they could try alternative transport, shop at a local store rather than big-box Wallyworld, wait until they can group several errands together on the same day (shop and go to the dentist at the same location/same day), carpool, and so on.
Or are these protesters just asking for a subsidy? If that's the case then it's all of our tax dollars down the drain for their habits (just like what happens in China, etc)
rajman
Once again, I ask, how many people, on days that they normally drive (to work, to run errands, etc.), would be willing to give up driving completely on just one of these days? Not many.
If people can drive, they won't take public transportation. Heck, I'm guilty of this, too...despite the fact that my school has a system of setting students' ID cards to be used as FREE bus passes, I tried it for 2 entire weeks and hated it. I went back to driving, despite the increased price in usage. Based on "hours lost" from driving (including the working hour costs to maintain, fuel, and pay insurance on the car) vs. "hours lost" from riding the bus, both forms are still about equal, even when my car gets stuck in a traffic jam.
If people can drive, they certainly wouldn't ride bicycles everywhere. Too much effort, and "bikes are just toys." Well, I'd ride if I had a bike :D
I guess it depends on where you live - in my experience driving results in little or no time savings or extra travel time vs. subway, streetcar, bus, cycling, or walking. Did you consider parking lot crossing times and so on in your calculation? On UofCalgary campus thousands of students park at a football stadium and walk twenty minutes to campus - resulting in a net travel time disadvantage for some vs just walking, transit, cycling or whatnot. Even for those parking on campus, at busy times there are lineups for parking lots where I've seen people waiting 10-15 minutes at the lot just to get in - doesn't even count the time in the lot looking for the single available space.
The car's main advantage IMHO is the superior towage capacity vs. bikes (100's of lbs vs 50 or so for my bike - also capable of much bulkier transport). The main disadvantage is cost $15k for car, $500 for bike, $0.10/km for car, $0.01/km or less for bike $2.00/ride flat rate for transit (no ownership costs make this very cost effective vs car).
fat_bike_nut
rajman: Yes, I added in parking costs, too. It still comes out about equal between the car and bus. My area has no subways, but if there was one, I'd try it out, too. Orange County's bus system is reliable in that the buses do arrive and take you to your destination, but I think that it is blatantly ridiculous that it takes 90 minutes to go 12 miles. I'm basically wasting away 3 hours everyday if I take it. You live in Toronto, which is not set up like a suburban area. Suburban areas tend to be built around the car first, and I'm living in a suburban area.
lyeinyoureye
They always have that stuff... Useless, since the drop in demand will just be soaked up in the next day. Otoh, if everyone in the states drove 55mph on the highway for at least 6 months, I think world demand could drop by ~5%. But most people have too much cash to bother thinking about stretching any of it. The irony being, gasoline/oil is so inelastic, a 5% drop in demand over a couple quarters could send the price through the floor provided suppliers didn't constrict supply at the same time, which I doubt they could, since there's that whole chain to deal with. But, they could, eventually, keep pace w/ every increase in driver efficiency, so even if every driver was very efficient, dropping production by a third to keep prices where they are would be relatively simple.
Roody
Well I plan on boycotting gas on May 15.
And every other day of the year.
Dahon.Steve
Well I plan on boycotting gas on May 15.
And every other day of the year.
Good one.
I didn't know it but my boycott is now going on over 5 years!
In Absentia
This "boycott" is perfect because the problem isn't our reliance on a destructive, finite resource. The real problem is the evil "Middle Eastern oil industry" charging too much for it. :rolleyes:
MarkS
The new version of the boycott is not to boycott on a certain day, but to boycott Exxon/Mobil everyday. Amazing that so many American capitalists suddenly believe in centrally controlled prices.
bragi
As compared with years past, the U. S. gasoline supply this season is roughly a million barrels a week below the demand. That's 6 million gallons a day. To get prices back to, say, 2003 levels they'd need to have a few million motorists go car free for the summer season. The current hope is to make up for the shortfall by importing more finished gasoline from places like France and Japan. Last year they were required by treaty to supply us with gas out of their strategic reserves. This year they aren't. Will it happen? How much will it cost? Stay tuned.
I hope this isn't true for diesel as well, or even us carfree people are going to start paying through the nose for just about everything.
bragi
But, they could, eventually, keep pace w/ every increase in driver efficiency, so even if every driver was very efficient, dropping production by a third to keep prices where they are would be relatively simple.
Unless oil companies are colluding, which is possible, I suppose, this isn't likely to happen. In a competitive market, if demand goes doen, prices go down, too. I like that 55 mph speed limit idea, btw. Too bad it would be political suicide for any politician to suggest it.
ChipSeal
A better way to disrupt the "middle east oil industry" would be to open up ANWAR and off shore oil exploration. (increase supply) To affect the demand side of the equation would mean reducing usage, not temporally delaying your purchase.
pj7
They could instead spend the week posting dopey ideas on the Internet!:rolleyes:
nice
very nice
maddyfish
If I was a gas station owner, and no one bought gas for a day, I would raise prices the next day, knowing even more people will be nearly out of gas.
ABSOLUTELY!
Bikepacker67
Can you imagine if these whiners had to pay the TRUE (http://www.progress.org/gasoline.htm) cost of a gallon of gasoline?
MarkS
Can you imagine if these whiners had to pay the TRUE (http://www.progress.org/gasoline.htm) cost of a gallon of gasoline?Is that an old document? Its saying $1 for a gallon of gas. Is there anywhere in the US where they're still paying that price?
lyeinyoureye
Unless oil companies are colluding, which is possible, I suppose, this isn't likely to happen. In a competitive market, if demand goes doen, prices go down, too. I like that 55 mph speed limit idea, btw. Too bad it would be political suicide for any politician to suggest it.
I wouldn't exactly call it collusion, but yes, there's some funny bidness going on with oil companies, automobile companies (especially American companies), and the financial firms that own controlling interests in particular auto companies (Ford and GM (http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/03/26/business/bxgm.php)).
General Motors has urged investors to reject all 10 of the shareholder proposals for its June 5 annual meeting and to re-elect its board.
The proposals include requiring disclosure of political donations, cutting emissions of greenhouse gases and making it easier for smaller shareholders to elect directors, GM said Friday in a regulatory filing.
So, even though they're getting killed in the marketplace, they want investors to reject a proposal that would make it's products more efficient, and more competitive in the marketplace. The board at GM is elected by it's shareholders, and a majority of it's shareholders are financial organizations (http://www.ev1.org/gmoil.htm), who also supposedly have ten times more cash invested in various oil companies. Given that oil/gas are very inelastic (http://www.nber.org/papers/w12530.pdf), each fuel inefficient vehicle sold by GM for a loss, may return far more profit for the financial firms by way of increasing consumption by a certain amount, and price by a much larger amount. In the past five years, a one percent increase in demand/decrease in supply has resulted in a approximate doubling of price, since we're really wealthy, and most people can't change their consumption by very much. Isn't greed great? :D
fat_bike_nut
Can you imagine if these whiners had to pay the TRUE (http://www.progress.org/gasoline.htm) cost of a gallon of gasoline?
There would be protests. But, seeing how effective protests have been at actually getting the federal government to do something so far, all they'd be doing is whining at an even higher octave. Unless they actually sat down and thought about it, in which case they'd be voting for politicians that they think would do something to drop the price. But then, nothing would still be done, leading to...people grudgingly accepting the new price, pawning even more items from the home to feed their gas addiction. So, other than louder shouting, I don't see any big changes coming from having to pay the TRUE cost of gasoline.
HoustonB
As compared with years past, the U. S. gasoline supply this season is roughly a million barrels a week below the demand. That's 6 million gallons a day. To get prices back to, say, 2003 levels they'd need to have a few million motorists go car free for the summer season. The current hope is to make up for the shortfall by importing more finished gasoline from places like France and Japan. Last year they were required by treaty to supply us with gas out of their strategic reserves. This year they aren't. Will it happen? How much will it cost? Stay tuned.
Google continues to impress (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=1000000+barrels+of+oil+per+week+in+gallons+per+day&btnG=Search&meta=).
Denny Koll
It doesn't change a thing. People will still drive 2 blocks in their SUVs to the store and circle around wasting gas for 15 minutes so they can get the closest parking spot to the Mall's entrance. They will wait in lines to buy gas that is 5 cents per gallon cheaper and feel like they are making some type of radical political statement.
As for actually getting off their lazy butts and riding a bike or walking...well that type of protest actually takes some effort.
Platy
The gasoline situation has clarified a bit since last week. The supply is low because of insufficient refinery throughput and lagging gasoline imports. If nothing goes wrong (another major refinery fire, hurricane), we will get through the summer with gas staying expensive and without widespread shortages.
If however anything occurs to make motorists in general want to keep their tanks more full, widespread shortages (1970s style gas lines, odd/even day rationing) will develop and last through the summer driving season.
The refinery problems in the U.S. are causing crude oil inventories to pile up. This creates an impression of plenty of crude oil available. Unfortunately this is masking a developing problem with the crude oil supply. The northern part of Saudi Arabia's principal oil field may be starting to water out, Mexico's main oil field is expected to continue its sharp decline as are the older North Sea oil fields. The net result is that 4 million barrels per day of world oil extraction may disappear over the next 5-7 years. I expect the bottom line impact to the U.S. would be like phasing in a 1970s style Arab oil embargo over a 5-7 year period.
The conditions are slowly coming into place for many more people to think about living carfree and car lite.