Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Correct BB for Sugino 75 - You Decide! [POLL]

Let's say you had a Sugnino 75 crankset, but hadn't bought a bottom bracket yet.

Since you're riding the street, sealed>unsealed. After trying to find the right one, the many differing opinions around here have your head spinning. You're thinking Sugino 75 bottom bracket and be done with it, but your LBS is saying that's not such a good idea for street. Of the sealed bottom brackets, people have reported success with Campy, Dura Ace, and Phil Wood.

What would you pick?

I see four options premium options (try to keep it to these, but suggest a solid cheaper alternative if you must):

Campy Pista Record - 111mm ISO [~$105]
Dura Ace 7610 - 109mm JIS [~$145]
Phil Wood - 108mm JIS [~$120]
Sugino 75 - 109mm generally undetermined taper [~$80]

Sugino 75

your options don't make any sense.... s75 bb is the cheapest and a for sure match where the other ones aren't... and if you have to go sealed and are considering jis, the cheapy shimanos will do it.

your options don't make any sense.... s75 bb is the cheapest and a for sure match where the other ones aren't...
Sure it makes sense. I am riding street, have my own concerns about riding unsealed daily and LBS backed that up when I asked today. If there was a Sugino 75 sealed BB I wouldn't be bother with this. Promise.

What are your riding conditions though? Do you ride everyday all day even if its pouring rain?

if you're set on a cartridge, why ask? loose-ball bottom brackets are not hard to overhaul and are hella nice.

if you're set on a cartridge, get the phil campy taper one. that's the taper sugino says to use.

if you want a solid all-weather bb, then go with the phil wood, that's it.

if you want a bb that will match the sugino 75 cranks perfectly,
get the sugino 75 bb. not a difficult choice.

…but what's with the "generally undetermined taper"?

Sugino 75 = ISO. I emailed the company, and a man with the last name of Sugino (gives him a little credibility) said they are ISO and if you don't want to use an S75 BB, the Campy taper (ISO) is the way to go. He put this all into plain english so I don't think it was a typo unlike what some people are saying.

Anyways run the Campy, or the Phil Wood since they'll make a BB to match anything, it's your choice. If you run a Shimano UN5X, you're gonna deform the spindle hole but some people don't care about doing that... I run a C-Centaur 109mm btw, perfect chainline.

What are your riding conditions though? Do you ride everyday all day even if its pouring rain?

I ride mostly in good conditions, meaning I avoid most rain, but do ride in it occasionally. Reason for wanting cartridge is that I never want concern for my bottom bracket to dissuade me from going out in rain.

if you're set on a cartridge, why ask?

Thought that much was obvious. Want it so that I don't have to worry about water, whether from rain or just washing my bike down. I like the idea of sticking a sealed BB in there and forgetting about it for a few years.

Very little water is gonna get into your 75 while youre riding in rain. Its far from gaping open.
You get more water in your headset than that, easily.
Also, It takes no more than 5 minutes to have it all apart anyway.
Its too easy.

Phil Wood recommends their JIS for Sugino 75s.

Very little water is gonna get into your 75 while youre riding in rain. Its far from gaping open.
You get more water in your headset than that, easily.
Also, It takes no more than 5 minutes to have it all apart anyway.
Its too easy.

I ride year-round in Chicago, where some rain is the least of my worries. You can have your "too easy" BB rebuild; I'd rather be riding my bike heedlessly through the salty, corrosive slush.

So: Sugino 75 crankset on a Shimano UN73 for more than a year now. Perfect chainline. No problems. My crankarms haven't fallen off into the street. Fantastic bottom bracket for the price.

It may be that, when I remove the crankset from this bike, I will discover some irrepairable harm caused by the slightly different taper. At which point, I will have learned my lesson, or something.

But the endless hand-wringing on this subject is tiresome. If anyone is legitimately worried about some potential peril, or feels the need for a guarantee of perfection, or fears the wrath of giant NJS enforcer robots, just get the Sugino 75 BB and be done with it. Or, use something else. It's a track crank; most of us are already abusing the intention of its design, and no measure of nebbish anxiety will change that fact. For me, it seems to spin the same in any case.

I love my Shimano Saint cranks :)

Thought that much was obvious. Want it so that I don't have to worry about water, whether from rain or just washing my bike down. I like the idea of sticking a sealed BB in there and forgetting about it for a few years.

and yet you asked and most people recommended the one bottom bracket that was specifically designed for the cranks and that does not have a cartridge. so why ask? you already knew what you wanted and no-one here knows whether you should get a campy or phil cartridge bottom bracket.

it's easy.

if you want cheap, get a cheaper campy bottom bracket (not even the record).
if you want proven, long-term reliability at greater expense, get a phil.

done and done.

I ride year-round in Chicago, where some rain is the least of my worries. You can have your "too easy" BB rebuild; I'd rather be riding my bike heedlessly through the salty, corrosive slush.

.

Well, your conditions and the OP's condtions are clearly different. Probably why the overwhelming amount of votes are for the 75

I ride year-round in Chicago, where some rain is the least of my worries. You can have your "too easy" BB rebuild; I'd rather be riding my bike heedlessly through the salty, corrosive slush.

So: Sugino 75 crankset on a Shimano UN73 for more than a year now. Perfect chainline. No problems. My crankarms haven't fallen off into the street. Fantastic bottom bracket for the price.

It may be that, when I remove the crankset from this bike, I will discover some irrepairable harm caused by the slightly different taper. At which point, I will have learned my lesson, or something.

But the endless hand-wringing on this subject is tiresome. If anyone is legitimately worried about some potential peril, or feels the need for a guarantee of perfection, or fears the wrath of giant NJS enforcer robots, just get the Sugino 75 BB and be done with it. Or, use something else. It's a track crank; most of us are already abusing the intention of its design, and no measure of nebbish anxiety will change that fact. For me, it seems to spin the same in any case.

This has nothing to do with NJS. There are only a few things to worry about with cranks: spindle shape, chainline, and stiffness. If we're riding 75's, we're doing fine with stiffness. Few here would ever ride any distance with a bad chainline. So why NOT wring our hands over the spindle shape? If there's one thing I don't want to get stuck with, it's my right crank arm falling off--if either the bottom bracket or the crank arm is destroyed, I have a lot to deal with, especially if I'm riding brakeless. It's very easy to get the proper spindle shape, so why not do it? I ran 75's on a shimano UN73 a while ago, and I had no problems then--but I may have. Now that I know, I'd rather not worry about it. When it's really easy to match the cranks with the taper they're designed for, there's no reason not to do it.

Oh, and if you're riding your steel frame through "salty, corrosive slush," you have many things to worry about even if you're not worried about your bearings. Just sayin'.

So why NOT wring our hands over the spindle shape?

Because this is the conversation that will not die, to the extent that the entire internet is incapable of answering an ostensibly-simple question in any kind of definitive way; seriously... this is the most ****ed up search you can ever hope to attempt. I advocate the use of the Sugino 75 bottom bracket, if it will kill this conversation. Or some other bottom bracket, if it will also kill this conversation.


If there's one thing I don't want to get stuck with, it's my right crank arm falling off--if either the bottom bracket or the crank arm is destroyed, I have a lot to deal with, especially if I'm riding brakeless.

Yeah, that would suck! Use the Sugino 75 bottom bracket.


It's very easy to get the proper spindle shape, so why not do it? I ran 75's on a shimano UN73 a while ago, and I had no problems then--but I may have. Now that I know, I'd rather not worry about it.

I agree! See my previous post. If you're worried, get the Sugino 75 bottom bracket, and stop worrying about spindle-shapes.


When it's really easy to match the cranks with the taper they're designed for, there's no reason not to do it.

Unless there's some reason to do it. But I suggest you use the Sugino 75 bottom bracket.


Oh, and if you're riding your steel frame through "salty, corrosive slush," you have many things to worry about even if you're not worried about your bearings. Just sayin'.

Oh, I worry about my rustbucket. My daily ride is trashed in ways that only a bike that someone rides every day, everywhere, in every condition, can be trashed. But my bottom bracket is hangin' in there. As are my BB-mismatched cranks, which still seem to spin okay, and show no sign of falling off, or exploding, or turning into puppies, or whatever it is that we're really, really, worried about here.

:rolleyes:
Dang, he really took it personally or something.
Must have high blood pressure if a thread like this is all it takes to get him worked up. :)

Burden's rant

you're the only one who seems to be getting all worked up about it. I don't ride 75's anymore, and if I did, I sure as hell would not be freaking out about it all over the internet. if you're so through with "this conversation," then stop joining it.

:rolleyes:
Dang, he really took it personally or something.
Must have high blood pressure if a thread like this is all it takes to get him worked up. :)

yeah, seriously!

o_O

When in doubt, play the I'm Less Worked Up Than You card.

Just sayin'.

doubt? what doubt? I'm so entirely convinced of my correctness about everything, I haven't had any doubts since I was a wee lad!


Calmer than you are, dude...calmer than you are.

In any case, I'm having a hard time seeing a "rant" in a post where I repeatedly agree with you. ;)

Haha..were here laughing and your there taking 45 minutes to diligently make a huge post quoting 5 or 6 times and actually getting mad. Now defensive.
Just relax, everything's gonna be ok. :)

hatta r9400

In any case, I'm having a hard time seeing a "rant" in a post where I repeatedly agree with you. ;)

I'm not even going to go there! :p

what did the khs 100s come with back when they had sugino 75 cranks?

hatta r9400

Another great choice actually. Ive had one. Basically the same as a 75, IMO.

Yes, I apologize. It's important that we remain as insubstantive as possible.

I will research the proper image macro for this ocassion, and then we can return to our discussions about yogurt and spoke cards.

I'm not opposed to substance. And yogurt sounds really good right about now--what kind should I go buy at my late-night bodega?

in all seriousness, though:

what about a superbe pro bottom bracket? Sheldon said they matched the square-taper dura-ace cranks, so I would tend to think they don't (quite) match the 75's, but...?

Man, I totally would never buy any dairy products at my local late-night bodega. I don't even fully trust the stuff in cans.

I suggest a Hostess Fruit Pie: two for a dollar, so you can have one later.

OK, I take back any harsh and/or acerbic words directed your way. Anyone who recommends Hostess products when asked about yogurt is worth their weight in diamond-studded, carbon fiber tri-spoke wheels.

So Shimano UN BB will work with the 75's for sure?

The most obvious solution here is to switch to some DA 7600 cranks.

I have two sets of S75 cranks. One of my bikes has a Suntour Superbe Pro BB, which I understand is a dead-on match for the S75, but is hard to get now.

I am waiting on the Sugino M-68 BB for my IROSE.

I want to give it a chance to convince me that unsealed is not so much of a pain in the @$$. It also gives me the incentive to be more conscious and buy the tools to service my own BB.

Concerning the ISO/JIS issue, why does Phil Wood recommend using their JIS if Sugino 75 is ISO?

Concerning the ISO/JIS issue, why does Phil Wood recommend using their JIS if Sugino 75 is ISO?

I was under the impression the last time this issue was debated a mere couple of weeks ago, it was determined that the Sugino taper straddled that between the ISO / JIS.

Since the angle is the same, the issue is a matter of insertion depth.

heads up!, how did you manage to compile a list of spindle lengths like that?

I'd have good use for a similar list of cranks. Since my frame has french BB threads, my choice of BBs is somewhat limited. My current one has a 111.5 mm spindle. Matched with Bulletproof cranks, that gives me a perfectly straight chainline with the chainring on the inner position.

Let's say I'm in the market for a fancier crank. How would I go about finding a pair that gives me a 42 mm chainline with the current BB? Or perhaps changing spindle to match the desired cranks would be a better way to go? I suppose I'd need to know the measurements anyway.

loose-ball bottom brackets are not hard to overhaul and are hella nice.


Except for the, having to overhaul part.

This thread is Wikiality in action

http://static.crooksandliars.com/2007/04/stephen-colbert-cc02.jpg

Approves

I was under the impression the last time this issue was debated a mere couple of weeks ago, it was determined that the Sugino taper straddled that between the ISO / JIS.

Since the angle is the same, the issue is a matter of insertion depth.

Well, it wasn't a "mere couple of weeks ago", but that doesn't matter.

The Sugino website says it's ISO

I wish there was a visual of the fit.

C'mon now, there's no debate here. Sugino 75's are ISO or damn close to it. All you have to do is take a picture of S75's in a Campy BB vs. in a Shimano one to clearly see the difference. If you want to deform your cranks over time, go ahead and buy a $20 BB for a $175+ crankarm.

Sure it makes sense. I am riding street, have my own concerns about riding unsealed daily and LBS backed that up when I asked today. If there was a Sugino 75 sealed BB I wouldn't be bother with this. Promise.



What was their point?

Nothing will happen, many people have been riding non sealed parts for years.

If it is maintained ,it will last.

This why most people do not know about their bikes, they don't learn about them.

Fixing your bike gives you more knowledge of how it works, pros and cons.

Use the Sugino 75 bb ( that is why they made it) , learn it and the other parts of the bike.

Ive used sealed for two months, when the problem arose I could not fix it.

S/F,
CEYA!

If you want to deform your cranks over time, go ahead and buy a $20 BB for a $175+ crankarm.

Thanks Skippy. 4+ years on a JIS spindle without issues. I must be blessed. Or you're wrong.

Of course you can probably get away with it. I'm sure there are thousands of people out there running campy cranks on a shimano spindle , and getting away with it also. But it's not what the components were designed for.

Thanks Skippy. 4+ years on a JIS spindle without issues. I must be blessed. Or you're wrong.

it's still an ISO taper at the end of the day, mr. sugino would attest to that.

omg what's a BB??

wtf, no superlap bb on that list? thats what im running my s75's with.
hatta isnt even on that list.. and yet campagnolo pista is...

ps.. loose ball is the ****!

it's still an ISO taper at the end of the day, mr. sugino would attest to that.

Sorry, I won't believe it until I see it on their.....er......uh.......web....uh, hum...a

Nevermind

http://www.suginoltd.co.jp/track_e.html

Still works with JIS, so there:rolleyes:

how did you manage to compile a list of spindle lengths like that?just listed the most commonly available bb's that it seemed people were using and discussing on the topic.


Let's say I'm in the market for a fancier crank. How would I go about finding a pair that gives me a 42 mm chainline with the current BB? Or perhaps changing spindle to match the desired cranks would be a better way to go?no idea :)


If you want to deform your cranks over time, go ahead and buy a $20 BB for a $175+ crankarm.that's basically what i ended up doing. i think this forum allows OCD tendencies to get outta hand. the BB i have is plenty smooth, stiff, maintenance-free, and cheap to the point of being disposable each season.