Southern California - Let's talk about RECOVERY

Dear friends:

I need some advice from you experienced veterans -- I did a really challenging ride last Saturday -- my toughest challenge to date, and I think it was a pretty severe assault to my body. I handled the actual ride pretty well -- rest breaks, hydration, fuel, etc. -- and finished the event feeling not too bad. I mean, I've done shorter/easier events and felt a lot worse afterwards.

However, the recovery process has really got me stymied. I think I don't understand it well enough, and don't plan for it or manage it well. I've been resting every since Saturday (no cycling, some tango), staying pretty well hydrated, and I think I'm eating well. So, I thought I was doing all the right things. Only, my body is sending up a very frightening flare, and I don't know what to do, or what it means:

It's my heart. I handled the ride on Saturday just fine. I did a metric century three weeks ago. I did a HARD race day at the velodrome ten days ago. No problems at all. Then this Sunday, I got up feeling like an elephant was standing on my chest and a knife was stabbing into my back. I could hardly breathe. Taking even a moderate breath was very, very painful, especially across my upper chest, right below my throat. Very, very scary.

Was I too tense leaning on my bars all those hours? Am I older and more out of shape than I realized, and ready for "Shady Pines?" Did I get too cold, wet, and chilled? Am I coming down with pneumonia? Am I just extremely susceptible to psychosomatic suggestion? Will it get better if I just continue to get more rest this week? Am I being stupid and ignoring a serious cardiac warning signal? Before somebody calls 9-1-1, those of you who know me already know that I am, shall we say, "emotionally intense," and I have in fact had major episodes of chest pain on more than one occasion simply from anxiety, which cleared up immediately when the anxiety-producing stimulus was removed. Yeah, I know I can be a major "stress puppy." And this may be all this is. Or maybe it's just a normal result of challenging my body so hard. Or maybe it's Nature's way of telling me to buy a rocking chair and take up knitting.

Anyway, I thought I'd mine the experience and wisdom of this forum before I go totally berserk. I am a little frightened.

Velodrome Phoenix

I think Id go to the DR and make sure all is good. If it is, get back on your bike and do an easy spin for 30 minutes to an hour.

Then this Sunday, I got up feeling like an elephant was standing on my chest and a knife was stabbing into my back. I could hardly breathe. Taking even a moderate breath was very, very painful, especially across my upper chest, right below my throat. Very, very scary.


See your Dr. asap... It may very well be nothing, however, the symptoms you described need to be looked into by a Doctor.

You could have pulled a muscle, I've done that and it was a lot lot what you described. However, you should see a doctor immediately just in case.

Are you doing some training rides and some recovery rides between you metric and races? It's the easy recovery rides that make you feel better. It's damaging to your bod to go out and sress it every time. Especially if there are long periods on non cycling in between.

One problem I have with Gina. She won't do short recovery rides between. Our only chance to cycle together is on the weekends so they are usually hard efforts for her. I set up the trainer, her cruising bike, etc and suggest that she does some esay spinning a couple of times during the week. Even if it's an esay spin thru the park or 30 minutes on the trainer to some Billy Idol.

She doesn't! But then after our rides, she wondes why she has a pain in her wrist, arm, leg on so on. It's the easy recovery rides that keep you limber and flexible. If you don't do 'em, you get stiff and are more likely to strain or pull a muscle. I bet you strained a muscle in your back. See the doc to be safe like JP said. I've done it before. Swore I couldn't walk or stand upright, but when I was cruising on the bike, my muscles warmed up and felt soooo much better. No hard effort, just easy muscle warming ride.:D

Recovery rides. That's something I haven't been doing. I thought I was supposed to completely vege for a few days after a hard ride.

Okay, tomorrow. I'll get on my bike and do a gentle ride tomorrow.

Ugh.

The chest pain is better today, although still present when I really take a DEEP breath.

vp

It's better to do an easy recovery ride the day after a hard effort. Spinning the legs helps circulate the blood and helps to remove lactic acid and warming up the muscles helps them heal and recoup!:D...I don't know all the medical terms, but it helps believe me!

You could have pulled a muscle, I've done that and it was a lot lot what you described. However, you should see a doctor immediately just in case.
+1 Honestly Renee, I think John is on to something. I have pain in my chest sometimes after extremely taxing rides, but it is more around my diaphragm and under my arms (weird, I know). You may have just pulled something but only a doctor can truly advise you. Feel better! :o

You might want to check out Planet Ultra and their training tips ... a huge wealth of information here. I should follow some of these ... http://www.planetultra.com/training/Ten%20Mistakes.html

Along with recovery rides, be sure to eat immediately AFTER any hard ride. Any long high effort ride burns more calories than you can replenish on the bike. Have a high carb/protein meal within 2 to 3 hours after you get off the bike. See text below (from http://www.cptips.com/recvry.htm)

Finally, take advantage of the glycogen repletion window that is open in the 4 hours immediately following vigorous exercise. During this time, any carbohydrates you eat will be converted into muscle glycogen at 3 times the normal rate - and some data suggests there is a 50% fall in this super charged repletion rate by 2 hours with a return to a normal repletion rate by 4 hours. (Ivy JL et al,J Appl Physiol 1988 Apr;64(4):1480-5). The slowing rate of glycogen storage occurs even when plasma glucose and insulin levels remain elevated with oral supplements. After this initial 4 hours, muscle glycogen stores are replenished at a rate of approximately 5% per hour. And while it may require up to 48 hours for complete muscle glycogen replacement following a 2 hour ride, for all practical purposes glycogen stores are almost completely rebuilt in the first 24 hours post event. But for the athlete who is on a daily training schedule, or is in a multiday event, the glycogen window can be used to get a jump on the normal repletion process and minimize the chance of gradually developing chronic glycogen depletion (and the fatigue that goes along with it).

I've found that if I skip that refueling after the ride I feel like hell the next day. Makes the "recovery" ride that much more fun.

If you haven't had an EKG and stress test, that might be a good idea. I had one after having chest pains some years back. The doc said my heart was fine and the pain was from fighting with my now ex-wife. He told me to go ride my bike, and just him telling me that made me feel better.

The doc said my heart was fine and the pain was from fighting with my now ex-wife.



That will do it everytime!:D

Along with recovery rides, be sure to eat immediately AFTER any hard ride. Any long high effort ride burns more calories than you can replenish on the bike. Have a high carb/protein meal within 2 to 3 hours after you get off the bike. See text below (from http://www.cptips.com/recvry.htm)

Finally, take advantage of the glycogen repletion window that is open in the 4 hours immediately following vigorous exercise. During this time, any carbohydrates you eat will be converted into muscle glycogen at 3 times the normal rate - and some data suggests there is a 50% fall in this super charged repletion rate by 2 hours with a return to a normal repletion rate by 4 hours. (Ivy JL et al,J Appl Physiol 1988 Apr;64(4):1480-5). The slowing rate of glycogen storage occurs even when plasma glucose and insulin levels remain elevated with oral supplements. After this initial 4 hours, muscle glycogen stores are replenished at a rate of approximately 5% per hour. And while it may require up to 48 hours for complete muscle glycogen replacement following a 2 hour ride, for all practical purposes glycogen stores are almost completely rebuilt in the first 24 hours post event. But for the athlete who is on a daily training schedule, or is in a multiday event, the glycogen window can be used to get a jump on the normal repletion process and minimize the chance of gradually developing chronic glycogen depletion (and the fatigue that goes along with it).

I've found that if I skip that refueling after the ride I feel like hell the next day. Makes the "recovery" ride that much more fun. I agree with Steve on the glycogen window 100%. There is however a narrower window of 1 -11/2 hours that you need protein. The capilarys in your muscles are bleeding from the effort and protein is essential to their healing. I had a tooth pulled recently and the Dentist told me to eat high protein[easy for him to say] The best remedy after a ride is a protein shake as soon as a possible after a hard ride. Trader Joes has a couple of good ones. You are after about 25 grams of protein. There have been recent articles that compare chocolate milk to protein shakes and say choc milk is just as good. Stop at the 7-11 on the way home. Also ,to decide if you are recovered enough the next day to go at it again the benchmark is your resting heart rate. If it's within 10% above normal you are good to go. Higher than that or lower than normal take it easy. If it's lower than normal your body is trying to put itself to sleep to rest.
Now, if you are having chest pains GO TO THE ER. We had a guy in our club that ignored pain and woozieness ,sp? Rode home and dropped dead. Lets not forget Barry Wolfe passed in his easy chair and he raced his whole life. Just cause we are fit it's no guarantee that can't happen. :D

If you haven't had an EKG and stress test, that might be a good idea. I had one after having chest pains some years back. The doc said my heart was fine and the pain was from fighting with my now ex-wife. He told me to go ride my bike, and just him telling me that made me feel better.
John is on to something. A stress test is the best way to determine if the "physical stress" of your effort is indicating a cardiac problem. If the doc says all is OK, then move on to the various training and nutrition suggestions in this thread.

+ 2

#1 See a Dr--symptoms you describe are in a too potential area, if you know what I mean.
#2 After very hard efforts...very easy rides. I've done recovery rides of 5-6 miles, spinning quickly with minimal power on the pedals. My 8-year beats me! When I don't do recovery rides...I feel worse than when I do.

(The other nutritional advice is beyond my expertise :) )

Ask Floyd. Nobody knows better how to bonk on one stage of Tour de France and then miraculously recover on the very next day without taking testosterone. ;)
Now seriously - I agree with the other guys - all their recommendations are good. However, they all missed the best recovery procedure – massage. All athletes in all sports do it. You should get a massage after a race. I know it is pricey but you get what you pay for. And no - I'm not a masseur. :D
Hope you are feeling better.

I agree with Steve on the glycogen window 100%. There is however a narrower window of 1 -11/2 hours that you need protein. The capilarys in your muscles are bleeding from the effort and protein is essential to their healing. I had a tooth pulled recently and the Dentist told me to eat high protein[easy for him to say] The best remedy after a ride is a protein shake as soon as a possible after a hard ride. Trader Joes has a couple of good ones. You are after about 25 grams of protein. There have been recent articles that compare chocolate milk to protein shakes and say choc milk is just as good. Stop at the 7-11 on the way home. Also ,to decide if you are recovered enough the next day to go at it again the benchmark is your resting heart rate. If it's within 10% above normal you are good to go. Higher than that or lower than normal take it easy. If it's lower than normal your body is trying to put itself to sleep to rest.
Now, if you are having chest pains GO TO THE ER. We had a guy in our club that ignored pain and woozieness ,sp? Rode home and dropped dead. Lets not forget Barry Wolfe passed in his easy chair and he raced his whole life. Just cause we are fit it's no guarantee that can't happen. :D
The numbers I've seen thrown around are that that the prime time for glycogen repletion is really the first hour, and that too much protein is NOT good as it slows down the absorption. I would skip the protein shakes, and go with a more optimal blend of carbs to protein - usually 4:1 carbs to protein is the ratio that is quoted as optimum. Chocolate milk (make sure it's low or non-fat) has that ratio, as well as nutrtional supplement drinks like Slim-Fast, Ensure, Boost, etc. As a runner, I usually have a hard time stomaching solid food or those types of drinks immediately after a long (2+ hour) run, but have found I have no problems with Powerbar Recovery (usually 32 oz immediately after).

The numbers I've seen thrown around are that that the prime time for glycogen repletion is really the first hour, and that too much protein is NOT good as it slows down the absorption. I would skip the protein shakes, and go with a more optimal blend of carbs to protein - usually 4:1 carbs to protein is the ratio that is quoted as optimum. Chocolate milk (make sure it's low or non-fat) has that ratio, as well as nutrtional supplement drinks like Slim-Fast, Ensure, Boost, etc. As a runner, I usually have a hard time stomaching solid food or those types of drinks immediately after a long (2+ hour) run, but have found I have no problems with Powerbar Recovery (usually 32 oz immediately after).

Whatever happened to just eating like a pig after a long ride?

Whatever happened to just eating like a pig after a long ride?

The problem I have is that I don't usually get to eat like a pig until at least an hour after the ride/run. If you are riding/running again the next day, then you have missed the prime window for getting your muscle glycogen restored. It's not a big deal for most recreational cyclists, but those who are training or racing nearly every day, proper post-ride nutrition is a BIG deal.

I would recommend checking out the following article:
http://www.kbnutrition.com/articles/Staving_Off_Muscle_Soreness.doc
Kim Mueller is a local nutritionist that works with my track club as well as with professional athletes, and is also a frequent contributor to Competitor Magazine.

The problem I have is that I don't usually get to eat like a pig until at least an hour after the ride/run. If you are riding/running again the next day, then you have missed the prime window for getting your muscle glycogen restored. It's not a big deal for most recreational cyclists, but those who are training or racing nearly every day, proper post-ride nutrition is a BIG deal.


Yup, and one of my two biggest mistakes that I've made during my training between February and April. Not enough recovery rides and not enough fueling directly after rides. I have DEFINITELY felt the ill effects of both bad habits.

Do what I do after I have a possible heart attack, go online and ask the opinions of health care amateurs. Oh..ahh i thix im hbbib a stoke , whet do u tink?

Do what I do after I have a possible heart attack, go online and ask the opinions of health care amateurs. Oh..ahh i thix im hbbib a stoke , whet do u tink?

Well, since we all are acquaintances, friends or simply part of a community on here, these are the types of topics we bring up and discuss with one another. You can choose to get out of the thread if you'd like and not post, but unless I've misread the above, the sarcasm isn't necessary. Besides, I've appreciated the input on Recovery (advice, article links and such) from my fellow riders.

The problem I have is that I don't usually get to eat like a pig until at least an hour after the ride/run. If you are riding/running again the next day, then you have missed the prime window for getting your muscle glycogen restored.

For me, if I'm doing a long ride (say greater than 45 miles) I'll have a recovery drink on ice so I can drink it at the end of a ride. I've learned to plan ahead as I can rarely eat quick enough to get the maximum effect.

For me, if I'm doing a long ride (say greater than 45 miles) I'll have a recovery drink on ice so I can drink it at the end of a ride. I've learned to plan ahead as I can rarely eat quick enough to get the maximum effect.

Good idea. I need to invest in a mini-cooler. Luke warm protein shakes are nasty!

Consider myself duely spanked.

Do what I do after I have a possible heart attack, go online and ask the opinions of health care amateurs. Oh..ahh i thix im hbbib a stoke , whet do u tink?

As ME Rider said, the people on this forum aren't "health care amateurs" -- they're my friends. They know me. I'll talk to them the same as I'd talk to my mother -- who is no more a health care professional than my friends. But that doesn't mean my mother doesn't know anything, either.

Also, my friends DO know me, and like I said in an above post, I am extremely emotionally hypersensitive, and extremely responsive to suggestion. I can have the same "cardiac symptoms" provoked by nothing more than extreme anxiety (confirmed by a doctor, and experienced while under the close supervision of an attending physician). I'm not so rich that I can afford to go running off to the doctor everytime something freaks me (and everything freaks me out, as one of my friends drily observed).

As it so happens, the chest pains have gradually subsided over the last three days, and are now completely gone. I think the two tips I received -- post ride nutrition and recover rides -- are probably the keys. I did NOT plan my post ride nutrition well -- I was too tired to scrounge up food at 11:30 at night (when I finished my ride), let alone CHEW it, and the next day I really didn't eat enough, and didn't eat enough of the RIGHT things, in the right amounts. So, that was not so good. And like Mr. Beanz said above, my tendency to go "Full On, Full Off" with activity is also not so good. I need to even it out and do a moderate amount more often, instead of killing myself, and then vegetating for two weeks. My whole life has dumped topsy-turvy recently, and my nice balance that I had worked out is all screwed up now, and I have to work out a new schedule and a new routine that gets everything back into balance and harmony again, which takes time.

Thanks, ME, for your support.

VP

Good job VP! You've been listening!:D....Love it whe one can take it all in and use it. Too many ask and don't really pay attention to advice. Looks like you're taking it all in! Your friends wouldn't steer you wrong!

I don't get this recovery ride stuff. My goal is to recover between rides.

I don't get this recovery ride stuff. My goal is to recover between rides.
You have so beaten your body into submission over the years you've ridden with climbing all up and down and everywhere, you DON'T need a recovery ride. The rest of us still feel the pain. ;) :p :D

Good idea. I need to invest in a mini-cooler. Luke warm protein shakes are nasty!


Do you like them sizzling hot ?

Do you like them sizzling hot ?

That was waaaaaaayyyyyyyy too easy. I guess I should say, "Why yes, and through a thick straw." :rolleyes:

But, NO. I like them ice-cold and out of a can, thank you very much. Which leads me back to the mini-cooler. Another trip to Target, yippee! :D

I don't get this recovery ride stuff. My goal is to recover between rides.You mean a century after a double ISN'T a recovery ride?

You mean a century after a double ISN'T a recovery ride?
for YOU maybe...:rolleyes:

All this talk of recovery is too complicated for me to comprehend.

I just look for this sign after each ride:

You mean a century after a double ISN'T a recovery ride?


for YOU maybe...:rolleyes:

Like you're 'recovery' rides back and forth over GMR are easy. ;)

Like you're 'recovery' rides back and forth over GMR are easy. ;)
I only did that once, Ron! :p Besides, I've been on most of Joel's recovery rides, so I'm really the pot calling the kettle black. :o

I normally carry an Ensure sized bottle filled with 2 scoups of Endurox. When I finished cycling, I just add water, give it a little shake then drink it.

I'm pretty slow, so I need all the help I can get. :p

Our deranged idea of a recovery ride is shorter miles, but more climbing. How does a 50 mile, 5000 foot climb sound? Yea, I know ... doesn't make sense, does it?

How about a 50 miles 5000 foot descent. No effort on the legs, heart rate will still be in zone 4 due to the speed but with all the fun! :D

Our deranged idea of a recovery ride is shorter miles, but more climbing. How does a 50 mile, 5000 foot climb sound? Yea, I know ... doesn't make sense, does it?Felt recovered enough to do 4000ft in 40 last Sunday after 8500 ft. the day before. Piece of cake,ummmm, cake.;)

Felt recovered enough to do 4000ft in 40 last Sunday after 8500 ft. the day before. Piece of cake,ummmm, cake.;)
I'm his witness! Of course, when he passed me and climbed up GMR complaining that his legs were sore, I thought, "poor baby, he's only going to beat me up this 10-mile extended climb 20 minutes faster this time." :rolleyes: :p

All this talk of recovery is too complicated for me to comprehend.

I just look for this sign after each ride:


+1

How about a 50 miles 5000 foot descent. No effort on the legs, heart rate will still be in zone 4 due to the speed but with all the fun! :D
Hey, I'm all for that. You leading it?