Classic & Vintage - Swiss BB cups

Anybody know a source? Harris has no more.

Does Phil do Swiss?

Does Phil do Swiss?

Yes.

Phil will cost me about $160. That's my last resort. All I really need is a pair of cups. I've already got a spindle and lock ring. In fact, I've got French cups, so all I really need is a Swiss fiixed cup.

I think Edco makes a Swiss cartridge BB.

I just found their site. Nope.

I think I've got it figured out. I think I can use a Miche Primato BB with Phil rings. The Miche Primato is constructed like the old Shimano UN 72. There are no threads on the cartridge body. I've got one, but it's too short. I can get another one for $20, so I think I'll give it a shot. They're track BB's, but you can get them up to 115mm and that's the length I need.

Most threadless systems require countersinking of the BB shell. If the Miche Primato lets you leave your BB shell unadulterated, that sounds like a superb solution. The other way to play the game is to force-thread ALUMINUM ISO/English cups into your Swiss BB -- after almost 10 years, this still works for me on my PKN-10, which my elder son has begun riding with the San Diego Bicycle Club.

Most threadless systems require countersinking of the BB shell.
Not exactly, the most common one, the Mavic, only requires chamfering of the outer edge of both sides of the shell. This only removes about 2 threads from each side, and so usually doesn't spoil the shell for subsequent conventional BBs. Some people think a lockring won't be able to screw down tight enough on the adjustable side, but I think that's imaginary...and it certainly wouldn't affect your using Phil rings with whatever cartridge BB you can fit. Only problem is finding a shop with the now-rare Mavic tool that will easily chamfer the shell, but even there you can get a good frame builder or machinist to do it without the the special tool, it's just a chamfer.

Swiss BB cups ... Help me out here, I'm not a lingerie expert...:)

Most threadless systems require countersinking of the BB shell. If the Miche Primato lets you leave your BB shell unadulterated, that sounds like a superb solution. The other way to play the game is to force-thread ALUMINUM ISO/English cups into your Swiss BB -- after almost 10 years, this still works for me on my PKN-10, which my elder son has begun riding with the San Diego Bicycle Club.

It's not a threadless system. It uses threaded lockrings to hold an unthreaded cartridge just like the Phil Wood setup. The Idea is to substitute Phil rings because they're available with the correct threading. I want to use a $20 Miche cartridge instead of a Phil cartridge because I'm cheap. If it doesn't work, I'll put it on eBay and order the Phil cartridge. Sheldon Brown says the UN72 works with Phil rings, so I don't see any reason why the Miche shouldn't work as well.

Force in English cups? No way!

Sheldon Brown says the UN72 works with Phil rings

That fix works, I've done it. Let us know how the Miche works, please, I can always use a good hack.

The Shimano UN72 spindle is too fat for older European-standard cranks.

so just squish it on there

Not to hijack the thread or anything, but I've got an old Motobecane frame on the way which I'm suspecting is Swiss thread, and which needs a BB. Which bikes/models are reliably Swiss thread? I ask because one solution would seem to be picking up a beater and stripping it for the BB. I've heard that 1) 1970's Moto; and 2) 1980-85 Peugeot are Swiss thread ... any others?

That's a good question. I thought about that myself. I can't help, though. I don't know Motos or "late model" Peugeots.

I can confirm that Peugeot finally got it right (or should I say, "left") by the 1980 model year, when Swiss-threaded fixed cups definitely were used. Through the mid-1970s, Peugeots were definitely French-threaded. Motobecane made the change a few years before Peugeot, but I don't know precisely when.

My PKN-10 MAY be the first year for Swiss-threaded Peugeots. Significantly (I think), my OEM BB fixed cup is gold-anodized, as though to indicate a left-hand thread.

Not to hijack the thread or anything, but I've got an old Motobecane frame on the way which I'm suspecting is Swiss thread, and which needs a BB. Which bikes/models are reliably Swiss thread? I ask because one solution would seem to be picking up a beater and stripping it for the BB. I've heard that 1) 1970's Moto; and 2) 1980-85 Peugeot are Swiss thread ... any others?
Good question, but I also can't tell you exactly when and what models of Moto had Swiss cups...any Moto experts out there? John E has the dope on the Peugeot...I believe that there are *some* Austro-Daimlers that have Swiss, but again not sure on the details. I recall that there was info on the "code" of rings on the fixed cups of the Stronglight "octagonal" cups that indicate threading, but I lost the link, somebody here must have it. Probably the only sure thing is that Swiss bikes like Mondia, Allegro, and some of the early Cilos and Ochsners will definitely have Swiss cups.