Advocacy & Safety - Cyclist is killed and I am catching hell

Bicyclist, 23, killed when hit by car

http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/2007/04/24/news/17131310.htm

GREEN - A 23-year-old Green man was hit by a car and killed while riding his bicycle in the 4000 block of South Main Street Tuesday, according to Summit County Medical Examiner investigator Roger Riggins.

Steven Simms was traveling north on the southbound berm at 5:27 p.m. when he lost control of his bicycle, according to Scott Cottle of the Summit County Sheriff's Office.

Witnesses told investigators that Simms fell into the road and was struck by a car driven by a New Franklin resident.

The car's driver swerved, but couldn't avoid hitting Simms, said Cottle.

Police are still investigating the accident that took the life of the South Tamarack Road resident.


This guy was the nephew of one of my co-workers, so of course I am catching hell today for 'riding in the street'.

Somehow I imagine that if this fellow was driving a car in the wrong direction when he was struck, no one would be nagging you about driving a car.

We have one gal here who insists that riding against traffic is the proper way to do it! I'm not saying a word in response to anyone today...I'll just let em rant and rave at least till the poor guy is buried and the emotion wears off...but sure as heck, some day down the line, someone is going to make a comment about me 'ending up like him', and I'll say my piece and hurt some feelings.

someone is going to make a comment about me 'ending up like him', and I'll say my piece and hurt some feelings.

My co-worker's son got hit by (or, more accurately, "he hit") a car as he was riding downhill, wrong side of the road, running a stop sign as the car pulled out from his left. I had to bite my tongue as well. At least the kid didn't die. He messed up the car pretty well, from what I heard. Mom was blaming the driver... :rolleyes:

This guy was the nephew of one of my co-workers, so of course I am catching hell today for 'riding in the street'.
Chip,

Please let your co-worker know that your cycling friends on the internet send our condolences to her and her family.



We have one gal here who insists that riding against traffic is the proper way to do it!

The prevalence of wrong-headed notions like this about cycling in traffic, that are the ultimate cause of many needless deaths, is why I am a VC advocate.

someone is going to make a comment about me 'ending up like him', and I'll say my piece and hurt some feelings.
Hopefully it will happen after some of the emotion wears off, Chip. But, you know it's going to happen sooner or later, and really, it will be someone else choosing to push the issue, not you.

Sorry to hear about it, though. :(

Try real hard not to say anything, at least for a few months. A person's death is obviously more important than pushing a personal agenda, even when the agenda itself is also important.

The prevalence of wrong-headed notions like this about cycling in traffic, that are the ultimate cause of many needless deaths, is why I am a VC advocate.
True, but there's a time to advocate and a time to keep one's mouth shut. To most people, this issue is less important than it is to us. In times of grief and anger, people are unlikely to be receptive to ideas.

My co-worker's son got hit by (or, more accurately, "he hit") a car as he was riding downhill, wrong side of the road, running a stop sign as the car pulled out from his left. I had to bite my tongue as well. At least the kid didn't die. He messed up the car pretty well, from what I heard. Mom was blaming the driver... :rolleyes:


Similar thing happened to me a few years ago. I too was hit by a cyclist as I drove my car. The cyclist was a 15 yo boy who was riding the wrong way against a red light. I was in the left turning lane with the green arrow as he crossed my path from the right. A long line of cars and a van was obstructing my view to the right(not that I expected there to be any vehicles coming from that location.) I had less than a second to react as he crossed my path. I was only going about 25 mph and skidding to a stop, when he bounced off my hood. His crank was toast as was his rear wheel. My hood got a nice dent in it from the pedal. The boy was uninjured. You would not believe the near riot this caused at this intersection. People were screaming at me from their cars and calling me names I don't care to repeat....and this was not my fault!!!!

Fortunately I called the police and they knew the law and gave the boy a talking to. But, even after the police called the parents and talked to the boy, the parents gave me grief because I hit a child! Some people are totally clueless.

Chip,

Please let your co-worker know that your cycling friends on the internet send our condolences to her and her family.

+ 14 dozen. Hang in there Chip--

Try real hard not to say anything, at least for a few months. A person's death is obviously more important than pushing a personal agenda, even when the agenda itself is also important.

I'm just keeping my mouth shut as all the fat old biddies, who have a hard time walking to & from the parking lot, scold me for being such a reckless thrill-seeker who gets in the way of legitimate users of the road. A person has to know the difference between the appropriate time to defend one's self, and when to just turn the other cheek...or spread both cheeks. :eek: Besides, I got you folks to vent at. :D

True, but there's a time to advocate and a time to keep one's mouth shut. To most people, this issue is less important than it is to us. In times of grief and anger, people are unlikely to be receptive to ideas. I agree. I'm not suggesting that Chip should leave a copy of Effective Cycling on the parents' doorstep. But it wouldn't hurt to mention the concepts, how and why they're taught in classes, etc., to the other co-workers who did not even personally know the victim when the aunt (or uncle - not sure why I assumed the co-worker with the nephew is female) is not around.

Well Chipcom - you could post what you would LIKE to say and get it out of your system. I myself would probably poke fun at them subtly. For example, I might say - "My gosh, you might be right - and you know, people probably should start thinking twice about going to college too after what happened at VT last week."

Of course, you could just reply "I didn't know you cared!" - what with the wig and the playboy centerfold look, that will really get them thinking...

Well Chipcom - you could post what you would LIKE to say and get it out of your system. I myself would probably poke fun at them subtly. For example, I might say - "My gosh, you might be right - and you know, people probably should start thinking twice about going to college too after what happened at VT last week."
:eek:

Okay, I laughed, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't actually say something like that.

Oh, oh...it's getting ugly here. I think they are plotting to burn my bike at the stake! :eek:

Tell them to just call in an exorcist - it will be cheaper for you.

True, but there's a time to advocate and a time to keep one's mouth shut. To most people, this issue is less important than it is to us. In times of grief and anger, people are unlikely to be receptive to ideas.

Yup, and it sounds like those folks would never be receptive to this particular idea.

Good luck Chip, maybe you should sneak out early?

So people are telling you that you shouldn't be riding in the street? Maybe you just should say "I disagree, but I'm not looking to argue about it unless you really want to." I would say that if they are starting the discussion, and confirm that they want to continue it, then you have every right to present your point of view. I wouldn't consider it unduly pressing an agenda if you're not starting it, and you gave them a chance to not get into it and they did anyway. Good luck, and condolences to the guy's family.

I'm just keeping my mouth shut as all the fat old biddies, who have a hard time walking to & from the parking lot, scold me for being such a reckless thrill-seeker who gets in the way of legitimate users of the road. A person has to know the difference between the appropriate time to defend one's self, and when to just turn the other cheek...or spread both cheeks. :eek: Besides, I got you folks to vent at. :D

I don't know if I could keep quiet for long if they were scolding me just 'cause I'm a cyclist.
Dana

This guy was the nephew of one of my co-workers, so of course I am catching hell today for 'riding in the street'.


Do you give your coworkers hell for driving in the street when there is a fatal car accident?

I mean, what's the difference? If they respond that they don't drink and drive, speed, drive in bad weather conditions, go over 10 mph or whatever, your argument is made for you - you don't drive wrong way, through red lights, or whatever...

I gotta wonder about some of you folks. This is one of those times when you just keep your mouth shut, out of respect for the dead and their family, unless you are a politician looking for votes, an attorney looking for a client, or a journalist looking to score a story. I just let the hens cackle...there will be plenty of opportunity to exact my revenge at a future time. nee hee hee HAA HAA HAA!

Let it rest for a week or so and then check the obituaries every day or so - anytime someone died of heart disease or something associated with gluttony and no excercise - steal their food and say you are just trying to save them from themselves.

Oh, and you are just starting to wonder?! :eek:

I gotta wonder about some of you folks. This is one of those times when you just keep your mouth shut,
Perhaps you are doing the right thing KYMS, but apparenlty your co-workers have no class. I'd say if they are not showing respect, either rise above it and continue to KYMS, or stoop to their level and tell 'em good.

Al

I prefer the high road...so pass me the bong. :D

The easiest generic response is:

"Thanks for your concern. Let's both drive safely, okay?"

Fortunately I called the police and they knew the law and gave the boy a talking to. But, even after the police called the parents and talked to the boy, the parents gave me grief because I hit a child! Some people are totally clueless.

Similar situation here, minus the jeering horde. A 15 year old cyclist ran a stop sign and broadsided my vehicle. He was uninjured. It cost his parents $1000 though. That was for the insurance deductible I paid for the damage to my vehicle. In all liklihood my insurer pursued them for the balance of the damages.

The easiest generic response is:

"Thanks for your concern. Let's both drive safely, okay?"

Best possible response imo.

Chip - I don't get it? why are they mad at you because of an unfortunate accident that happened to a co-worker's nephew who "lost control of his bike". It's not like the driver or cyclist intentionally crashed. It was an accident!

So you're telling me that if a runner tripped and fell onto oncoming traffic your co-workers would be mad at those who run? WTF!?!?!

I understand that we should be sensitive of the person's feelings but for them to blame cycling in general and not "user error" is just ridiculous! It's a case of not knowing the rules of the road and what sharing the road means. Even before I started road cycling last year I knew that cyclists had the same rights as any other "vehicle" on the road. Ignorance is the cause of stupidity! :rolleyes:

You are a bigger man than I, Chip. I respect that and admire your tongue biting abilities. Stay strong and start handing out bicycle rights and/or bike law pamphlets with a smile! hehe!

Oh, oh...it's getting ugly here. I think they are plotting to burn my bike at the stake! :eek:

Fortunately, it appears that you have a few extras. Nice bikes, by the way. Do you find a degree of redundancy within the lineup, though?

I gotta wonder about some of you folks. This is one of those times when you just keep your mouth shut, out of respect for the dead and their family, unless you are a politician looking for votes, an attorney looking for a client, or a journalist looking to score a story. I just let the hens cackle...there will be plenty of opportunity to exact my revenge at a future time. nee hee hee HAA HAA HAA!
Sorry if I came across as encouraging confrontation. For me, when someone keep pushing and pushing, sooner or later I snap and say something blunt. :o I do have a long fuse, though.

We have one gal here who insists that riding against traffic is the proper way to do it!
Print a copy of the law and ask her to show you where she's right. If she pushes the issue that is.

Similar situation here, minus the jeering horde. A 15 year old cyclist ran a stop sign and broadsided my vehicle. He was uninjured. It cost his parents $1000 though. That was for the insurance deductible I paid for the damage to my vehicle. In all liklihood my insurer pursued them for the balance of the damages.

Not to hijack Chip's thread any further, but in all likelihood, they closed the claim. Insurance companies are aware that if a case like that ends up in court, juries are usually very sympathetic to children. They may have made a token effort to subrogate, but they don't generally push the issue.

This guy was the nephew of one of my co-workers, so of course I am catching hell today for 'riding in the street'.
Chip, I know a guy who just got back to work from back surgery. He was always a physical man, loved to hunt, young and strong. An automobile crash injured his back and left him bent over like an old man (you know, like you and me. :D)
He spent, oh, I don't know, seems like a year or two like that before he finally got his vertebrae fused. He's a totally new man now (though I kid him and salute him saying, "Buzz Lightyear to the rescue!" because he wears a temporary brace that makes him look the part. :eek: )

Anyway, I'd NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS tell him, "That's what happens when you drive a car." Sheesh.

Watever.

Fortunately, it appears that you have a few extras. Nice bikes, by the way. Do you find a degree of redundancy within the lineup, though?

Thanks, but not really any redundancy...cept maybe for commuting, since all of them see some commuting duty at some point. The brown Bianchi is my road bike, the green Bianchi is my primary commuter that can also be used for fast rides on both road and path, the Fuji is my touring bike for loading up with everything but the kitchen sink, the One-way is my SS/Fixie for when I don't have to spend half the ride climbing, and the Rt24 is my winter/snow bike. Next bike will be a Surly Big Dummy, for utility purposes - and taking the dogs for a ride. :)

Chip - I don't get it? why are they mad at you because of an unfortunate accident that happened to a co-worker's nephew who "lost control of his bike". It's not like the driver or cyclist intentionally crashed. It was an accident!

So you're telling me that if a runner tripped and fell onto oncoming traffic your co-workers would be mad at those who run? WTF!?!?!

I understand that we should be sensitive of the person's feelings but for them to blame cycling in general and not "user error" is just ridiculous! It's a case of not knowing the rules of the road and what sharing the road means. Even before I started road cycling last year I knew that cyclists had the same rights as any other "vehicle" on the road. Ignorance is the cause of stupidity! :rolleyes:

You are a bigger man than I, Chip. I respect that and admire your tongue biting abilities. Stay strong and start handing out bicycle rights and/or bike law pamphlets with a smile! hehe!

It's not about the accident...that is just the reason why I won't get into it with them. These are all quite chunky older ladies who constantly complain about bikes getting in their way on the road. They are using this tragedy as an excuse to continue their normal jabbering about my dangerous and inconsiderate habits. Of course it's Ok for them to engage in this morbid silliness, but if I stoop to their level and respond, I'm gonna be the bad guy...besides, I like to think I have more class than that. :)

Sorry if I came across as encouraging confrontation. For me, when someone keep pushing and pushing, sooner or later I snap and say something blunt. :o I do have a long fuse, though.

You didn't come across like that at all. :) I tend to have a short fuse, but I am able to save the explosion for more appropriate times when the situation dictates.

Just tell the fat old ladies that you are certain they are right and you won't be suprised if you are next. Then when they ask you why you continue to ride, tell them that in the future the medicare system is only going to be able to handle so many and it looks like they are going to need it worse than you are.

This seems to happen to me at least once or twice a month ... the mention of a cycling fatality always brings out the stupid comments...

I always reply with this one: " More people die in car accidents every single day, I don't see you stop driving.."

That shuts them up real quick.

Then they say " but we are just worried about you ... blah blah.."

bullshizzle I say !

Just shut up and move along....

This guy was the nephew of one of my co-workers, so of course I am catching hell today for 'riding in the street'.
Hey, Chip. I just read this story this evening in the paper. I live down in the Massillon/Canton area, but I'm pretty familiar with the Green area. I can't, for the life of me, figure out where this happened. The only S. Main St. I know of is more in the Akron/Portage Lakes area. I know S. Main St. crosses 619, but I don't believe that Green spreads that far west.

Condolences to your co-worker though. Any idea yet on how he lost control of the bike? (That's how it was reported in the paper anyways)

Hey, Chip. I just read this story this evening in the paper. I live down in the Massillon/Canton area, but I'm pretty familiar with the Green area. I can't, for the life of me, figure out where this happened. The only S. Main St. I know of is more in the Akron/Portage Lakes area. I know S. Main St. crosses 619, but I don't believe that Green spreads that far west.

Condolences to your co-worker though. Any idea yet on how he lost control of the bike? (That's how it was reported in the paper anyways)

Looks to me like it was right near where 619 crosses S Main in Portage Lakes. Her version was that he hit something and fell into the street.

I'm just keeping my mouth shut as all the fat old biddies, who have a hard time walking to & from the parking lot, scold me for being such a reckless thrill-seeker who gets in the way of legitimate users of the road. ...

It’s not likely that they beg each other to use caution when someone with 3 or 4 degrees of separation has an unfortunate auto accident. Nor is anyone likely to pipe up, at the fast food joint and beg the others to, "remember the guy who had a heart attack last week at 49?? You all really should stop living so wild and make some sensible eating choices".

I can see not trying to push the points of road rights, bike safety stats and the like. They'd just be compelled to make you "see reason", as they might say, "like everyone else". If it weren't for bikefourms, how many bike-ies would have been assimilated by now? It's like everyday we are tossed into the pickle barrel, but still we remain cucumbers!

My heart and prayers go out to Steven Simms family and friends.

Get some Overeaters Anonymous brochures and leave them around the kitchen in the office.

These are all quite chunky older ladies who constantly complain about bikes getting in their way on the road.

That's how MY response to them would start.

Get some Overeaters Anonymous brochures and leave them around the kitchen in the office.

Diane, it's me you're talking to here. I did that last month...for this month I've already prepared a memo concerning an employee bike-a-thon and mandatory morning physical training. :D

Best comment of the thread so far...


Chip, Please let your co-worker know that your cycling friends on the internet send our condolences to her and her family.


And just to provide yin to the yang:


A person has to know the difference between the appropriate time to defend one's self, and when to just turn the other cheek...or spread both cheeks. :eek: Besides, I got you folks to vent at. :D
Please just promise that you won't spread your cheeks and vent at us simultaneously, mmm'kay?

Please just promise that you won't spread your cheeks and vent at us simultaneously, mmm'kay?

Too late! :eek:

Please just promise that you won't spread your cheeks and vent at us simultaneously, mmm'kay?

O M G

STOP that! I just about woke my wife up laughing!

Too late! :eek:

Well, that explains why my eyes are tearing up. I thought my neighbor next door was cutting the mother of all onions. Turns out it was you cutting the mother of all cheese.

O M G

STOP that! I just about woke my wife up laughing!

You'd like it in Foo then! :D