natelutkjohn
04-27-07, 03:54 PM
I'm not being sneaky. I'm trying to understand what you're saying.
Nope, just being a jerk like always
Nope, just being a jerk like always
Vehicular Cycling (VC) - What makes a Vehicular Cyclist?
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04-27-07, 04:27 PM
Pretty close to what I'm saying. Most of these roads are easily 80-90 feet wide (i.e. I just looked at Mission Center Road in Mission Valley and it's about that wide). Standard lane width in California is 12 ft. 2 through lanes in each direction, narrow service road on each side. 8 lanes total. 96 feet.
If you made the "narrow service road" one lane/one way on each side, you'd be down to 6 lanes.
But still, no acceleration/deceleration lanes for the main/center road? Plus how is the center road separated from the service roads. Doesn't that take a median and space?
If you made the "narrow service road" one lane/one way on each side, you'd be down to 6 lanes.
But still, no acceleration/deceleration lanes for the main/center road? Plus how is the center road separated from the service roads. Doesn't that take a median and space?
zeytoun
04-27-07, 05:46 PM
If you made the "narrow service road" one lane/one way on each side, you'd be down to 6 lanes.
But still, no acceleration/deceleration lanes for the main/center road? Plus how is the center road separated from the service roads. Doesn't that take a median and space?
I'm no traffic engineer :)
So we make the service road one way. 10 ft each. 2 through lanes in each direction. 12 ft each. Acceleration/deceleration lane in each direction 10 ft each. 4 foot center median, 2 foot service road divider on each side. 96 feet. Measure Mission Center Road south of Hazard Center Drive. It's 100 feet across.
Then again, I'm no traffic engineer. I'm just saying that it isn't a ludicrous idea, given the space.
But still, no acceleration/deceleration lanes for the main/center road? Plus how is the center road separated from the service roads. Doesn't that take a median and space?
I'm no traffic engineer :)
So we make the service road one way. 10 ft each. 2 through lanes in each direction. 12 ft each. Acceleration/deceleration lane in each direction 10 ft each. 4 foot center median, 2 foot service road divider on each side. 96 feet. Measure Mission Center Road south of Hazard Center Drive. It's 100 feet across.
Then again, I'm no traffic engineer. I'm just saying that it isn't a ludicrous idea, given the space.
Helmet Head
04-27-07, 07:43 PM
I'm no traffic engineer :)
So we make the service road one way. 10 ft each. 2 through lanes in each direction. 12 ft each. Acceleration/deceleration lane in each direction 10 ft each. 4 foot center median, 2 foot service road divider on each side. 96 feet. Measure Mission Center Road south of Hazard Center Drive. It's 100 feet across.
Then again, I'm no traffic engineer. I'm just saying that it isn't a ludicrous idea, given the space.
Okay, say it goes east/west. You're eastbound on the service road south of the main road. You need to turn left. How?
So we make the service road one way. 10 ft each. 2 through lanes in each direction. 12 ft each. Acceleration/deceleration lane in each direction 10 ft each. 4 foot center median, 2 foot service road divider on each side. 96 feet. Measure Mission Center Road south of Hazard Center Drive. It's 100 feet across.
Then again, I'm no traffic engineer. I'm just saying that it isn't a ludicrous idea, given the space.
Okay, say it goes east/west. You're eastbound on the service road south of the main road. You need to turn left. How?
chipcom
04-27-07, 07:58 PM
Okay, say it goes east/west. You're eastbound on the service road south of the main road. You need to turn left. How?
Jersey left.
Jersey left.
zeytoun
04-28-07, 12:27 AM
Okay, say it goes east/west. You're eastbound on the service road south of the main road. You need to turn left. How? At the light. Spin the cranks to go faster, squeeze the handles to go slower, point the front wheel in the direction you want to go.
Have you never been on a service road? Go to Pacific Highway starting on the North side of Washington. There's a service road that runs parallel to PCH (on the North-by-Northeast side of PCH). Now imagine that all those businesses were popular, and understand how it would segregate the traffic into through (faster) traffic and slower frequently right turning traffic. That kind of service road intersects with the main road often enough to be convenient (at every major light), while still keeping the frequent right turners out of the fast traffic.
Then there is the faster frontage road concept, which is like a big, faster version of the service road. The main road is faster, and intersects the frontage side streets less often. It's designed for faster through traffic, and is more confusing to people who aren't familiar with it.
Now I'm not saying it's the best thing in the world, but in my opinion the small-scale service roads that I've used help solve the problem of frequent minor intersections in high speed traffic by simple segregation.
A bicyclist that was stopping frequently, or travelling a short distance could ride VC in the service road. A cyclist going the distance might prefer the bike lane on the main section, relieved that (s)he only has to watch out for right hooks at each light, and not every 20 feet.
Another solution that I've seen was in Irvine where they tried to give drivers only a few limited choices for turning into the local strip mall, and gave them a sort of at level "off ramp" that routed them smoothly out of the arterial lane and into one of the fewer mall entrances. The problem I noticed is that the ease of use tended to encourage speed on the part of the drivers, and to me personally was just as much of a pain negotiating as the regular arterials with frequent perpendicular entrances/exits.
Have you never been on a service road? Go to Pacific Highway starting on the North side of Washington. There's a service road that runs parallel to PCH (on the North-by-Northeast side of PCH). Now imagine that all those businesses were popular, and understand how it would segregate the traffic into through (faster) traffic and slower frequently right turning traffic. That kind of service road intersects with the main road often enough to be convenient (at every major light), while still keeping the frequent right turners out of the fast traffic.
Then there is the faster frontage road concept, which is like a big, faster version of the service road. The main road is faster, and intersects the frontage side streets less often. It's designed for faster through traffic, and is more confusing to people who aren't familiar with it.
Now I'm not saying it's the best thing in the world, but in my opinion the small-scale service roads that I've used help solve the problem of frequent minor intersections in high speed traffic by simple segregation.
A bicyclist that was stopping frequently, or travelling a short distance could ride VC in the service road. A cyclist going the distance might prefer the bike lane on the main section, relieved that (s)he only has to watch out for right hooks at each light, and not every 20 feet.
Another solution that I've seen was in Irvine where they tried to give drivers only a few limited choices for turning into the local strip mall, and gave them a sort of at level "off ramp" that routed them smoothly out of the arterial lane and into one of the fewer mall entrances. The problem I noticed is that the ease of use tended to encourage speed on the part of the drivers, and to me personally was just as much of a pain negotiating as the regular arterials with frequent perpendicular entrances/exits.