Cheap Tandom at Overstock

[hyunelan2]

I know very little about tandems, and this thing could be a huge pile of junk, but I thought I'd share incase anyone cared. 26" Mantis Sidekick Tandem, for $289.99, with $1 shipping.

http://www.overstock.com/cgi-bin/d2.cgi?page=proframe&prod_id=2281492&IID=prod2281492


Like I said, it looks like your typical very-low-end bike, but could maybe be ok for someone looking to 'try' tandem riding?

[DevLaVaca]

Ick, no. Disc brakes on a suspension fork? Tension controlled by an idler? This looks cheaper than the trash tandems you find for 200 on ebay.

[TandemGeek]

Ick, no. Disc brakes on a suspension fork? Tension controlled by an idler? This looks cheaper than the trash tandems you find for 200 on ebay.

Can you elaborate on your critique?

1. Why the question mark regarding disc brakes on a suspension fork?

2. Why is an idler pully OK for every multispeed bike with a rear derailleur but questionable on a timing chain?

3. What is it that makes this look cheaper than the other tandems in the same price range?

4. Do you believe today's inexpensive department store bikes are less reliable than the average tandem produced in the 1920's - 1950's by the likes of Columbia, Singer, Schwinn, etc?

At what price point is a tandem or bike no longer "trash"?

Just curious as to the basis for your commentary.

[ang1sgt]

My goodness. I am looking at a new Santana Tandem Fork for my Fisher and that FORK cost more than that whole Bike!

The reason I bring up the fork is that a fork is one of the most important parts of any tandem. Most of your stability will come from that fork. There are no specs given on only parts of this bike, and I've never seen one of these. All the parts look suspect to me and most times when a Tandem has an idler for the timing chain, there is little upgrade possibilities down the road.

I would look for a lightly used tandem that has proper tandem parts, like an eccentric bottom bracket and a true tandem fork. In this case BEEFY is a good thing!

Chris

P.S. This almost seems like I am coming off a little snobish and that is anything from the truth of the matter. I just have helped many couples start off in Tandem riding in the past 5-7 years and while not an expert in any stretch, I do feel that I know what feels good and what feels bad on a tandem.

[TandemGeek]

My goodness. I am looking at a new Santana Tandem Fork for my Fisher and that FORK cost more than that whole Bike!

So, does that make the no-name brand, made in China bikes cheap or are the folks buying all the "made-in China at the same prevailing wage" FSA-branded, etc. "high-end parts" an incredible rip-off?

... most times when a Tandem has an idler for the timing chain, there is little upgrade possibilities down the road.

Thank goodness; imagine wasting even more money upgrading something that was never intended to be upgraded? That would be like hanging an expensive new fork on an older frame or putting 20" spinners on a 1980's Chevrolet Impala. My point here is, some things are meant to be used "as is" for the intended purpose. God help the poor soul who takes a department store 'ATB' off-road on technical single track or considers hanging any aftermarket upgrade parts on one. Of course, the same is true of most all entry level tandem frames that are produced off-shore. At some point with bicycles you decide to get serious and at that point you start to consider spending serious coin. The vast majority of bike consumers are probably not what I'd call serious.

I would look for a lightly used tandem that has proper tandem parts, like an eccentric bottom bracket and a true tandem fork. In this case BEEFY is a good thing!.

OK, how about providing a link to some used tandems with eccentric bottom brackets and a "true tandem fork" for $300 and that won't need another couple hundred dollars in parts and labor to put back into working order? Case in point: the second hand Calfee that I'm currently "restoring" came as a fully assembled bike, but many of the older Campy parts on it were just about trashed. Let's see $36 for cable set, $80 for a new cassette, $20 for a new chain, $10 for handlebar tape, and from my parts boxes came a set of Campy Chorus cranks, brake blocks to replace the dried out and rotted pads/holders, a Ti USE Alien seatpost, and then a new stem and handlebars from Ebay for $70. All of these were required just to get the thing road worthy. The wheelset is still problematic but I can live with the 8 speed Campy Record components for the next year or so. Thankfully, I considered all of the parts that came on the frame as "gratis" and the price I paid for the bike was predicated on the value of the frame alone which will still need to go back to Calfee for refinishing. At the end of the day, my sunk cost in the frame alone will put it at about 40% of a new frame which, frankly, isn't so bad. So, my point here is, buying used may not be a bad idea but it's not always as cost effective as we'd like to think (or at least as we've suggested to our spouse so that we could get it past the budget committee).

To your point about the fork, I too have no idea where it came from and if our combined team weight was 350lbs I sure wouldn't want to use it. But, to be fair, I've seen similar "crappy-looking" parts on recognizable name-branded entry level tandems too. It's not like there really are all that many different companies making the parts and frames that are sold by Pacific, Raleigh Inc., and the other importers. But, then again, the target consumer for this thing is probably not going to be an out-of-shape, 400lb couple looking to get into serious cycling, never mind riding of any kind. Trek's cruiser would be a more appropriate bike and at about $700 (with an idler wheel for the timing chain) it's a pretty sweet ride (yeah, I had to go see one for myself after the last thread where it came up).

This almost seems like I am coming off a little snobish and that is anything from the truth of the matter. I just have helped many couples start off in Tandem riding in the past 5-7 years and while not an expert in any stretch, I do feel that I know what feels good and what feels bad on a tandem.

While no one wants to come off being snobish, when it comes to department store bikes everyone who rides something better invariably does. With few exceptions, I've probably spent more on tandems than most folks have on new cars in the last 10 years.... and yes, I too can tell the difference between sh*t and shinola.

The issue becomes invoking a set of cost constraints that few of us who own nice tandems have ever had to deal with. Frankly, the last Cannondale MT they produced struck me as a "clunker" even compared to my '98 Cannondale MT3000, never mind my '02 Ventana which has a $1000 suspension fork, $600 cranks, and a $200 rear derailleur, etc.... But, if I was some poor schmuck who wanted to drop his kid off at school on his way to work washing dishes or digging ditches who was handy with a wrench, this might be a nice upgrade from my department store MTB that I was already riding to work every day. Likewise, if I had a vacation home on Jekyll or Amelia Island and wanted to leave a tandem there for guests to bang around on, an old Schwinn Twinn or one of these things might do just fine given it would be sitting around unused for 99% of it's life. And, relative to the OP's comments, if there was a family that spent all of their time riding on the local rails-to-trails project who was looking for an inexpensive way to see if their spouse or kids might enjoy going for a ride, well then it's no worse than any other department store bike that they would likely be familiar with. After all, Department Store bikes still outsell premium bikes by a large margin... as crappy as they may seem to be.

BTW, if you'd like I can also drag this thread into a bunch of analogies regarding entry level cars from Korea and China, some of the newer motorcycle brands that are showing up on our shores,. or just about any other low-cost consumer item being unloaded from container ships sitting on the dock at San Pedro, California.

[ang1sgt]

TandemGeek,

I have NO Clue what your problem is but why have you decided to shred two replies to this thread with your rantings?

Are you the only one able to make comments on these bikes? Do you like berating people that you don't know and will probably never meet?

Thank goodness there is enough other areas that people can post here in this forum to get away from people like you!

And Sir, I ride with my wife for enjoyment and exercise. We are a heavy team, but the difference is that we ARE out there, riding and enjoying. So what if our team weight is over 400 lbs.

This may seen thin skinned of me but this will be my last post here at least in this part of the Forum. Thanks for the hearty Welcome.

[TandemGeek]

I have NO Clue what your problem is but why have you decided to shred two replies to this thread with your rantings?

With all due respect, I did not know your team weight nor does it have anything to do with my replies.

Moreover, I do not see my replies as rantings... A ranting is an emotional outburst littered with personal jabs. Or, from the dictionary: To speak or write in a angry or violent manner; rave. A speech or piece of writing that incites anger or violence:

Now, if you'd care to re-read what I actually read instead of taking offense to someone offering an objective, dissenting view, you might actually understand the points I was trying to make.


This may seen thin skinned of me but this will be my last post here at least in this part of the Forum. Thanks for the hearty Welcome.

Yes, it does and that's too bad. Moreover, you might want to check the archives with respect to my writing style before drawing too many conclusions from this particular thread. No, I'm not warm and fuzzy, but I'd suggest that I'm probably only 1/2 as cantankerous as you may think.

[ang1sgt]

Well Sir,

You have raised my ire and I've decided to move on. I dislike your presentation but I will not let that affect the pleasure I derive from cycling.

I concede to your knowledge on the subject of tandems and will not sully this place with my drivel.

[TandemGeek]

You have raised my ire and I've decided to move on.

Again, that's too bad and I'm sorry you feel that way. You clearly have a lot of enthusiasm and would likely be able to contribute to many of the discussions that go on here in the tandem sub-forum... many of which I don't participate in... if that matters.

[Doggus]

Thank goodness there is enough other areas that people can post here in this forum to get away from people like you!


I'm guessing you've never ventured into 'Road Cycling', 'Mountain Biking', 'Singlespeed/Fixed Gear', 'Foo', 'Commuting', 'A&S'? This place is the picture of peace.

[Xanti Andia]

In defense of TandemGeek, he can sound pedantic, sure, but don't be too hard on the guy he does know what he is talking about, "more than most people even" (could not refrain from quoting the movie "Fargo"), and he does put in a lot of selfless work into this forum, stick arround, you will see.

[mrfish]

+1 on TG's comments.

I cast a quick eye over it. Yes it's 'junk' to someone who rides a Dura Ace equipped carbon race bike, but for my friends who ride £200 bikes as basic transport and go everywhere together, it looks an ideal starter tandem. If they don't like tandem riding it's not a great loss and net cost will be small. If I lived in the US and did not have scottish parents I would be tempted to buy it for them as a present.

I should also add that everything is relative - I am sure my church bike riding friends probably think I am both stupid and have too much money for riding a £1500 bike 6 miles to work in lycra most mornings. However they are both too polite and I am too thick skinned for it to matter either way.

[frameteam2003]

4. Do you believe today's inexpensive department store bikes are less reliable than the average tandem produced in the 1920's - 1950's by the likes of Columbia, Singer, Schwinn, etc?
Since I ride a 70 year old tandem--I'd say yes to your question.Also the newer 50s schwinn town and country is heavy but still rideable for short town rides.Can't see getting 50 to 70 years out of todays inexpactive dept store tandem---but let me know---in 2057.

[TandemGeek]

Since I ride a 70 year old tandem--I'd say yes to your question.Also the newer 50s schwinn town and country is heavy but still rideable for short town rides.Can't see getting 50 to 70 years out of todays inexpactive dept store tandem---but let me know---in 2057.

I'll cede to your expertise with antique bicycles and assume you are correct. But, with that said, can you elaborate on the technical or material differences between a rigid department store bike that would cause them to fail if they were provided with similar care and maintenance? Are the cones, races, and bearings of lesser quality or poorer design? Admittedly, the materials of the day back in the 20's - 50's are inherently durable but, unfortunately, no longer attractive to most consumers due to their weight and as a standard, have been replaced across the board by lighter and some of the same less durable materials used on low-end bikes sold by bicycle specialty dealers.

Personally, and discounting some of the real junk that is passed off on the Internet as bicycle shaped objects, I think the biggest difference in the reliability of low-end bikes and the ones produced years ago is the skill and attention to detail provided by the dealer and mechanics. When your 70 year old tandem was produced the retailer most likely had a well-paid mechanic who took personal pride in making sure the bike was properly tuned before it went out the door and, like the very expensive things that they were at the time, the owners tended to provide proper care and maintenance for the machines.

The bikes sold by big-box stores are slapped together by "assembly techs" (whatever that is, but certainly worse than even a bad bike shop's "mechanic") who don't bother to attend to any key adjustments that would prolong the life of the bikes wheels and bearings. Moreover, because they are cheap they aren't afforded much care by the owners and so it goes...

Again, I will defer to your expertise but it would be interesting to know how the basic technology and materials compare as well as even the cost when adjusted for inflation. After all, there were some pretty nice high-end bikes "back in the day" as well as "affordable" bikes that aren't coveted by collectors.

[R900]

Wow, strong feelings. I would say it would be great for a family riding around the local bike path. You could at least tell if you were a tandem couple or not. We started with a used Fuji tandem, but quickly upgraded to a very nice Trek T2000 (at least we think so). If resources are limited and you would like to try, why not, I bet you could sell it for at least $150 if you didn't like it.

[TandemGeek]

Wow, strong feelings.

Any time discussions drift into the economics of cycling you're almost assured that a lively discussion will ensue.

Of course, just about any "hobby" at the enthusiast level can truly become "the sky's the limit" without consumers batting an eye while, at the other end of the spectrum, I sometimes struggle to understand how some things can be so inexpensive when you consider what the actual "cost to produce" the item must be once you strip away all of the overhead, burdens and profit that's included in the selling price.

Now, add to that the internet where enthusiasts with deep pockets rub up against both frugal peers as well as those who are budget constrained and, well, there you go.

[Fenlason]

While I agree "department" store bikes... are thrown together, not assembled. I do not think that is their only problem. We [at the shop] often get people bringing in their new dept. store bikes... to get them assembled correctly. Some of them are horrible. For example I have seen too many.. that the brakes don't work [meaning you can not stop the bike...period]. chrome plated steel rims.. paired with calipers and levers that have so much flex... they do not work.. brake pads that have no grip. There is no adjustment that one can do, to get them to stop the bike. It would be nice if it just ... for example needed new calipers.. but the levers are so bad.. while it helps.. it is still not enough. If you replace the brake system entirely... you come close to what the bike sold for.

we also run into bearings that are crap.. they do not hold an adjustment, and wear out in a month. Frames... forks.. handle bars... they seem to be made of tin. Stuff you can bend with your arms. Rims that feel like they are made of rope. Wheels with these rims... are actually fairly easy to fix.... but they do not seem to last long.



I know 3 speed hubs of ....lets say the 40's were much better made than even stuff of even the 80's. Machined parts vs cheaply stamped ones. They were much more durable... and more serviceable. The then 40 year old bike shifted better, than the newer ones.... and the forty year old bike... was still in the hands of the original owner... a Professer that commuted with it.

Today I do not know if any of the 3speed hubs are servicable at all. Except for places that still have old stock, can you buy any parts? Are there many mechanics that can still take one part and fix it?
They may work ok... but they are not as nice as they used to be. the price differences... I do not know.


Of course much of todays bikes are better than older ones. Take a $ 1,000.00 mountain bike of today and compare it to one of even 10 years ago, and in general there is no comparison. The new bike is generally better. you get more bike for your money.

I think it is complex enough subjectthat it is hard to generalize.

I myself would look for a used "bike shop" bike vs a new department store bike anyday.

glenn

[TandemGeek]

...often get people bringing in their new dept. store bikes... to get them assembled correctly. Some of them are horrible.

Are there any brand names that are better or worse than others? Just curious if Pacific's brands (Schwinn, Mongoose, GT, Eddie Bauer, Murray, etc..) are any better or worse than Raleigh's Kent lines, or any of the lesser known or co-oped brand names (Mantis was actually a really good brand at one time, as were a few other brand names that have now been purchased by marketing companies that have nothing to do with the original builders).

.I myself would look for a used "bike shop" bike vs a new department store bike anyday.


Me too... In fact, 4 of our current "high-end" bikes were somebody elses before I found them. It's the most cost effective way to get nice hardware for about 1/4 - 1/2 the cost of new. However, we're still talking about $1k - $1.5k+ for these bikes which will still require a few $100 in upgrades or tweaks.

That said, with $300 in my pocket it would be garage sale surfing for bargains. Of course to do that you must: a. have the $300, b. have the time to go looking, c. know what you're looking for, and d. have the ability to fix what may need fixing.

Come on... let's keep poking on this one. It's always educational to hash about these low-end bikes and I'm surprised some of the folks who have purchased them haven't chimed in.... long-term status reports on how well the Kents, etc.. have held up would be informative.

[Fenlason]

Posted by TG "Are there any brand names that are better or worse than others? Just curious if Pacific's brands (Schwinn, Mongoose, GT, Eddie Bauer, Murray, etc..) are any better or worse than Raleigh's Kent lines, or any of the lesser known or co-oped brand names "

I would say... it varies from model to model., more than brand name to brand name. It is not like Schwinns are slightly better than Mongoose, and Mongoose is better than Murray. There is some horrible product out there from all of them [all of the ones I have seen anyways..for example I have never seen an Eddie Bauer] I can't say that I have tried to keep track of any pecking order either.

There have been some stood out as particularly bad.. but the only thing I can think of right now...goes back many years. Huffy had a aero road bike out... that was real Bad.. At the moment we have a lot of Nexts around. At the shop we joke that the decals on the bike that say Next... are pointing to where the frame will brake... next.

The suspensions of these bikes develop so much play in a few months that they are not rideable.... and they are not fixable. you can't get parts for them.


Posted by TG "That said, with $300 in my pocket it would be garage sale surfing for bargains. Of course to do that you must: a. have the $300, b. have the time to go looking, c. know what you're looking for, and d. have the ability to fix what may need fixing."

As I have been trying to say... that is the case for buying a lot of these not so good new bikes. As you have aggreed they are not assembled, they need work. Yet all too often, in many cases the proper know how and tools aren't enough. As the bikes I mentioned that did not have functioning brakes... just trying to fix that one problem you can easily exceed what you paid for the bike to start with.

you brought up inexpensive cars... as a comparison. The regulations around car safety are more enforced than they are with bikes. If available...would you buy a new car for a $1,000 dollars? How about if somewhere on the internet someone was selling torgue wrenches for 99 cents, would you buy it?

There is plenty of stuff being sold out there... that is just not worth buying... the stuff does not work... and you are just throwing your money away.

There have been situations where some of the department stuff makes sence. For example you have a teenage boy... that is brutal on equipment... he will break what ever you give him... Some of the department bikes... might work out.

It is not about snobbery... I hate seeing these customers coming in... with bikes I can't fix. Like little bikes for 3 :4 year olds... little 12" wheeled bikes. The head and BB "bearings" are plastic bushings... that wear out in a few months. There is no fix. They do not make parts for them... and "regular" parts will not fit. So they are left with the option of throwing it away and starting over!!!!

If this tandem in question.... what the thread was all about to start with :) did not have a suspension fork or disc brakes... it might be a better bike. It "shows" me they are more interested in marketing... vs trying to make an inexpensive serviceable product. How inexpensively can you make a suspension fork... that is safe... and provides ANY benefit?

A suspention fork should be more expensive to build than a rigid fork [of the same quality] I would say the same is probably true for brakes... Linear pull vs disc.

What if someone was selling new tandems for 89.95... would you agree that a safe functioning tandem can not be made to sell for $89.95? Is there a price where you don't think they can make a safe functioning bike?

glenn

[TandemGeek]

Is there a price where you don't think they can make a safe functioning bike?

It's a good question... and thank you for sharing the specifics; that's where I'd hoped this thread would go.

I'm really not sure what the number is given all of the overcapacity that's been created off-shore. I do know that simple is always better and that's what impressed me about Treks' big blue cruiser. The idler for the timing chain could have been more robust, but the internally geared rear hub and other simplified features seemed well thought out: I was really surprised to learn that it had independent pedalling as well. The other $600 - $900 entry level tandems -- all of which I believe are made off-shore, to include Treks' two entry level models -- are probably sitting on that balancing point for cost to produce and MSRP. Of course, if traditional margins are being applied to the supply chain, the actual cost to produce those things is probably down in the $300 - $500 range. As you fall below that point or start to add complexity then you are sometimes hard pressed to parse the tandem-shaped objects from a bike that will hold up to use by a consumer who actually wants to ride the thing.

It would be interesting to see what folks could come up with for $300 without resorting to sweetheart, insider deals given a week to find a tandem to meet a given specification just to see what consumers on a strict budget are up against if they'd really like to have a tandem for some reason.

[stapfam]

I know very little about tandems, and this thing could be a huge pile of junk, but I thought I'd share incase anyone cared. 26" Mantis Sidekick Tandem, for $289.99, with $1 shipping.

http://www.overstock.com/cgi-bin/d2.cgi?page=proframe&prod_id=2281492&IID=prod2281492


Like I said, it looks like your typical very-low-end bike, but could maybe be ok for someone looking to 'try' tandem riding?

My concerns over this Tandem are that it is very low spec, or non specified spec on the whole bike. Going on to the look of the bike- It looks right. BUT are the parts suitable for a Tandem. Point is made about the strong wheels being aluminium and that is about the best point I can see on it. And that will be if the wheels are up to the use that a Tandem can give it.

For someone that wants to try a Tandem to see if it suitable for them- It may just about do that- providing it is strong enough to take the weight of two people without falling apart. I would have my doubts that much of the bike would last very long. It would need parts upgrading fairly quickly as they fail but then again- the parts may last long enough to give a pair a taster of what riding a Tandem could be like- with the proviso that the bike will handle a bit- does not flex too much and will remain safe. As to the forks- Brakes- gear shifters- wheels---- in fact all of the components on the bike- I very much doubt that they are up to the grade necessary to take the strain or weight of 2 people. As for the price of it- Why- I cannot even buy a front wheel for my tandem for the same price so it will suit some people

[Fenlason]

Tandem Geek:

In the name of "Science" you could buy one of these.... and then give us a full report on it. :D

Imagine what they are loosing in shipping this think out for a dollar???

Perhaps it is radioactive or something, and this is their inexpensive way of getting rid of the "waste".

Obviously I do not know this bike... it might serve peoples needs, I suspect otherwise, but it is just a suspicion.

I would say that someone that "needs" a $300 dollar tandem in a week.... needs some patience. :p

glenn

[TandemGeek]

In the name of "Science" you could buy one of these.... and then give us a full report on it. :D

I think you have mistaken my feeble effort to drive a discussion vis-a-vis playing devils advocate and offering profound observations during what seems like a lull in the action here at BF for altruism...

[Jinker]

I spent a good long while last fall/winter hunting various classifieds within a couple hundred kilometers of here (Ottawa Canada) for a used tandem.

My basic criteria was an entry level honest to goodness tandem. That means tandem parts (high spoke count wheels, eccentric BB, reasonable brakes and at least middle of the road drivetrain components etc etc.) on a frame which I trust to be sound.

Between various eBay auctions and classifieds, I found the price point for something serviceable to be around $700 (canadian dollars).

The bikes were older Trek T100s, Norco Dual Tracks etc etc.

I ended up getting a '94 Burley Rock'N'Roll Softride for $800. It's in great shape, came with some gewgaws (arai drum, racks, bottle cages etc.). I swapped out the old rubber, put new brake pads on it, lubed it up and it's good to go. I may end up swapping saddles and pedals once I get my stoker into SPDs.

The one major downside of this bike, in the longer term is that the bike suffers from Suntour-itis. The drivetrain works fine for now, but due to incompatibility with anything else under the sun, it looks like I'll end up swapping out the rear derailleur, shifter and having a new rear wheel built up when something wears out or goes clunk catastrophically. Given the condition and quality of the parts though, I don't intend on doing that for quite a while. In the meantime I'm keeping my eyes open for a cheap donor bike for parts.

In my searches I *did* see a couple tandems that matched my spec in around the ~$500 USD range which I was tempted to pull the trigger on (a couple eBay auctions, and classified ads) but they were never very local, and I wasn't willing to commit that sort of money without even throwing a leg over the machine (or waste the seller's time for that matter).

This leads me to believe if you can find a tandem of reasonable quality that meets your needs (style and fit) for $500, you're getting a very good deal. If you can find one for less than that, it's a steal.

[Jinker]

Oh, and as far as new tandems go, I didn't find anything under $1500 which I'd feel comfortable buying. (Save maybe one of the tandem cruisers, but that's not what we were interested in)

Replacing worn or broken parts on a new bike is much more frustrating than replacing parts of a ten or twelve year old bike.

[JanMM]

My one little criticism of the ad for the tandem: It says "disk brakes" but there is only one disk brake (on the front).
Would really like to hear from someone who has lived with this bike or one like it.
High probability that a bike like this could end up being more trouble than it is worth.

[JGatlin]

I've never ridden a tandem (though I woud like to), but I'll offer this:

I recently formed a bike collective in a town where you take what you can get. We make weekly trips to the scrap yard and go to garage sales in search of new bikes and parts. About a month ago, I recieved a call informing me that 20 bikes would be in Wal-Mart's dumpster by the end of the night. Supposedly they throw away any bike (and probably product) that has been damaged in shipping or returned. Most of the reasons went like this: stripped cranks, dished wheels, bent handlebars. To be sure, wheels and cranks are pretty damned important, but these can be easily replaced or fixed. I went down and grabbed 18 of them, threw them in my truck and have since incorporated 10 of them into the "program", breaking them down (even the "mountain bikes") into single speeds and fixing them up. I part some of them out, but many have been used more or less as-is. An exception would be their "BMX" bikes. In fact, 1 out of every 5 of a certain freestyle bike is returned as defective merchandise, but this is an entirely different topic.

I wouldn't put something out that I didn't find safe (enough) for its use. Some of the mountain bikes actually fair as decent work and commuter bikes. Sure they aren't pretty and they're heavy as tanks, but if you know what to stay away from (and that is indeed a problem), department store bikes aren't completely useless.

[Fenlason]

Some are ok... some are not. At a bike shop... we of course are more apt to see the ones that are not. The ones that are real bad are also more apt to be remembered.

A few years back we had as a customer. someone who mananaged a local location of a discount chain. They said they took back.... 50% of the bikes they sold.. with defects. It was a scarey number for me.

It is a shame that the product is just thrown away. I am glad you were notified... and could utilize them.

glenn

[Midwest Ullrich]

I bought a cheap tandem at discount JC Penny store in Columbus, Ohio about ten years ago. My main objective was to get my non-atheletic wife into cycling. The bike was even worse equipped than the one offers by Over Stock: it has rigid steel fork, canti-lever brakes and one-side drivetrain,...etc. But you know what, for $200, it serves its purpose of getting my wife into cycling exercise. We have a lot of fun riding in the subdivision after dinners. Kids point at us with a smile; old couples make fun of me of doing all the work at the front.....
For your primary concerns, my tandem biggest issues are (in order): loose rear wheel under heavy pedal forces (rear dropout is horizontal instead of vertical down), frequent "ghost shiftings" under heavy pedal forces, ocassional chain popped out, no rear wheel quick release and fast wearing tyres. Other than that, the frame is very sturdy and it does not give us any safety concern.

[zonatandem]

You get what you pay for . . .
Have you ever seen an empty parking lot at Wally-World?

[MyPC8MyBrain]

Just to toss my liter of gas on the fire...
I believe that the low end tandems [and bikes in general] have their place.

When i started cycling again 12 years ago I started on a x-mart clunker. It was a cheap way to get inspired. I figured if I actually rode it enough to wear it out, then I would upgrade to a good bike. If it's life was destined to be garage clutter, then the loss was minimal.

Same story with the tandem. I bought an ebay clunker to test the waters with the little woman. She loved it and we quickly upgraded. Now we have 2 tandems. The clunker has been upgraded to slightly better than dysfunctional. It's nice to have to bring along another couple for a starbucks run. We've inspired another couple or two by loaning out the clunker.

Just my unsolicited $.02 worth.

[if this was mentioned somewhere in the thread, sorry for the duplicity. It got too long to read it all with the excessive bantering :) ]

[Ben There]

We got the Kent / Walmart tandem last spring and hit the bike trails. Last summer, bought some thinner tires and went on 50 mile road ride with my daughter. We have over 400 miles on it with no problems, no adjustments needed except for seat positions. I think we are much better off, having purchased this bike and got out on the road, than we would be if we were sitting around waiting to save $2000 for a tandem that geeks would aprove of. I did look for used "quality" tandems for 2 years, and they simply do not exist in my area. I know this thing won't last forever, but at least I've been able to have some rides with my daughter while she'e still young enough to enjoy it.:)

[ggia]

I bought a Walmart one-speed "Kulana Lua Tandem Bike." Will update this post after it arrives.

[72andsunny]

You know it's a slow day at work when I'm reading 10 month old threads...

I seem to remember an article in bicycling magazine about day laborers in Los Angeles riding $80 bikes. I found the article: http://www.bicycling.com/article/1,6610,s1-3-12-13639-1-P,00.html (http://www.bicycling.com/article/1,6610,s1-3-12-13639-1-P,00.html)

...but what I was looking for was an inset where the author describes buying one of these bikes, giving it a tune up, and then reviewing the ride. If memory serves, when he pedaled the bike like the commuters featured in the article (sitting up straight, slowly, and on the sidewalk), the ride was not entirely unpleasant.

[StephenH]

Hmmm...the original bike is posted there. But, you can go on Ebay anytime, any day, type in "tandem bicycle" and have a bunch of hits for $300 tandem bikes. So one question: Is this supposed to be better than those? Or does this relate to $300 tandem bikes in general?

And, one comment on the brand variability. Some of these name brands are made in China. You might assume that all current Schwinn bikes are designed and manufactured by one Schwinn factory somewhere in China. That might or might not be the case. You may have one parent company contracting out the manufacture of different models to different companies and slapping the same name on them- hard to say without being in the business.

As to old department store bikes. I've got an old Huffy tandem, reserved for a future project. Not in the best of condition, but I think I can honestly say it was not a good bike when made, either- flexible frame, too cramped, etc. So don't assume that all old bikes were made good. On the other hand, it has heavy steel wheels that'll probably outlast a lot of the cheap aluminum wheels out there. It was probably from the 60's or so.

By the way, the commentary up there didn't seem offensive or rude to me.

(Oops, just now noticed the age of the thread!)

[72andsunny]

Hey, I didn't realize: Both the bike and shipping have gotten more expensive.

I think I am no longer interested.