Why pay the big bucks for winter wear, it's just really a waste!

[Blue Jays]

Buglady, those people were very lucky you happened to be along for the event. The guide deserves a real "Bronx Cheer" for allowing those people to even step onto the trailhead as ill-prepared as they were. Good on you for assisting those nitwits out of a jam and hopefully they learned something!

The same thing happens in cycling, too. We have folks on this thread advocating riding in cotton sweatpants beneath cotton denim jeans in -40* Fahrenheit (also -40* Celcius), which could easily become a life-threatening situation with a couple strokes of bad luck. A couple flat tires around dusk (with night quickly approaching) on a deserted country lane would be a disaster.

[kpumpy]

You would be surprised how many people buy something just because someone tells them it will really make them a better cyclist because of such said schlock that they are selling. Lets take clipless pedals and shoes for example. My good friend was buying a new bike, and you should have seen how much crap this store was trying to sell to him, the scary part is that these people are so persistent that he ended up wasting his money on clipless pedals and shoes, and all the other crap to go with it, (I think he ended up spending like $500 just on the accessories he broke down and bought, though if he would have bought everything they told him he "needed" it probably would have been in the same neighborhood as what he spent on the bike itself! So many people want to call themselves experts yet really don't know jack, and there is always someone with the money to buy this crap.
Don't get me wrong though. I believe a guy should have his pump, repair kit and the necessities but I have always been kind of "anti-gimmick" and buy even my regular clothes second hand, but nicer ones than I could afford if I bought new. On $20 I can get like 2 italian dress shirts two pairs of brand name dress pants or jeans and they are like new, so I guess it all boils down to perception.
Some people buy things just because they can, or they think they are getting a deal, whilst people like myself even when Buying something cheap, still feel they could've got it cheaper or have a hard time deciding whether to buy it or not. Either way to each his own, I will just keep using the same getup that has worked for me for the last 10-15 years and I will get that good feeling inside as I ride by someone who has just spent like 200-300 dollars on their winter wear and I can see that they are not nearly as comfortable as I am in my LowBudgetOutfit. That is what makes it all worthwhile.


Totally agree with everything you say. Last weekend I did a charity event on a Schwinn, purchased FROM WAL-MART (GAG, I CAN HEAR EVERYONE SAY), wearing GYM shoes, and my only concession on this bike was to retrofit it with skinny slicks, and somewhat to my surprise, I completely gassed the small field, including a smarmy-assed group in their Eddy Merckx's, etc., and their $300 Sidi clipless shoes. I can still see those fu**ers fuming when I left them gagging around the 15-mile mark. (I do also own a nice Giant road bike -- but since this ride was only 45 miles, I decided to see what the Schwinn -- which is my winter bike -- could do. It isn't as fast as the Giant, for sure, but a few thousand miles of good training -- and good training through winter on my low-budget bike and low budget boots and mittens -- can make up for a lot of bike deficiencies).

As a famous cyclist once said, it isn't the bike...and I'll add, it isn't the gear. It is the rider within.

Happy cycling.

[Buglady]

It's not that you have to have the latest, greatest gear, but you do have to have the right equipment and clothing for safety, especially in severe weather conditions. And cotton is almost never the right equipment, just because of its physical qualities.

I'm a thrift-store shopper myself, but I look for function over price. That meant I paid full retail for a pair of wind-resistant Polarfleece tights, because that was the best functional solution.

I just realized I've spent more on outdoor hiking/cycling gear (always with that functionality in mind) than I have on office clothes, heh. (Sitting in office wearing linen slacks purchased at thrift shop for $4, shoes from Payless $7, sweater on clearance $10; rode to work in various layers of wool/synthetic/wicking/toasty warm (it's snowing today!!) layers that total up to about $250 - but I accumulated all of that over several years).

BTW, I'm on a Norco bike with platform pedals.

[Blue Jays]

kpumpy, those riders on the Eddy Merckx bikes that you "gassed" at the 15-mile point might have been riding slowly with a friend still recovering from open heart surgery. I know this happens because I rode alongside someone in that exact situation this very week. Kids on BMX bikes were passing us. A bunch of us continued riding along at 10 m.p.h. until this person double-backed with one of his best friends. We then continued on our regularly-scheduled training ride at an average speed of 22 m.p.h. over the course of 76 miles.

Typically speaking, if someone has modern, well-chosen, and proper equipment, there is usually a reason why they are not achieving normal performance levels. This applies to clothes as well as things like bicycle pedals. In a similar vein, a person who trains in -40* weather clad in simple cotton is usually not a highly-experienced athlete or one embracing recent technology.

[slowandsteady]

Totally agree with everything you say. Last weekend I did a charity event on a Schwinn, purchased FROM WAL-MART (GAG, I CAN HEAR EVERYONE SAY), wearing GYM shoes, and my only concession on this bike was to retrofit it with skinny slicks, and somewhat to my surprise, I completely gassed the small field, including a smarmy-assed group in their Eddy Merckx's, etc., and their $300 Sidi clipless shoes. I can still see those fu**ers fuming when I left them gagging around the 15-mile mark. (I do also own a nice Giant road bike -- but since this ride was only 45 miles, I decided to see what the Schwinn -- which is my winter bike -- could do. It isn't as fast as the Giant, for sure, but a few thousand miles of good training -- and good training through winter on my low-budget bike and low budget boots and mittens -- can make up for a lot of bike deficiencies).

As a famous cyclist once said, it isn't the bike...and I'll add, it isn't the gear. It is the rider within.

Happy cycling.

It is never a race if only one person is doing the racing. :rolleyes:

Ever hear of a recovery ride? Maybe they ride their *****es off every other day of the year and chose a charity ride to chat with friends and check out the scenery.

It never ceases to amaze me how insecure people can be when they perceive they have inferior equipment. You just have to try to show up anybody wearing nice clothes or riding a nice bike. How nice of you to make assumptions and look down on someone you don't even know.

[jonnysays420]

It is never a race if only one person is doing the racing. :rolleyes:

Ever hear of a recovery ride? Maybe they ride their *****es off every other day of the year and chose a charity ride to chat with friends and check out the scenery.

It never ceases to amaze me how insecure people can be when they perceive they have inferior equipment. You just have to try to show up anybody wearing nice clothes or riding a nice bike. How nice of you to make assumptions and look down on someone you don't even know.


First off, let me tell you it has nothing to do with insecurities on our side, I would have to say that it is the "gimmick driven" "cyclists" that are being insecure here... there are cold, hard facts being presented about the positives of using something low budget, and still blowing by these schmucks even when they are all decked out. You guys don't have to get defensive just because your clipless pedals are useless against someone who rides just to ride. And the words Recovery and ride in the same sentence? If you need to recover after a ride or can't keep a steady pace of 30-35 km\h indefinitely over pretty much any conditions, then I would suggest riding twice as much to get yourself back into shape. Again, plain and simple if someone in cheap getup is smoking you while you have your clipless shoes, cycling shorts, and aerodynamic gear, then maybe instead of being insecure and trying to bring others down to your level, why can't you just accept that all this crap is just that, crap! Just like playing guitar...if you learn on an acoustic, the strings are that much harder to press down, and consequently, when you go to play an electric, you sound that much better, whereas, vice versa, the guy who learned on the electric, has to now practice double, just to get used to it. '

"Riding is not about science, or heart rates.... it is about pleasure and challenge."

[jonnysays420]

kpumpy, those riders on the Eddy Merckx bikes that you "gassed" at the 15-mile point might have been riding slowly with a friend still recovering from open heart surgery. I know this happens because I rode alongside someone in that exact situation this very week. Kids on BMX bikes were passing us. A bunch of us continued riding along at 10 m.p.h. until this person double-backed with one of his best friends. We then continued on our regularly-scheduled training ride at an average speed of 22 m.p.h. over the course of 76 miles.

Typically speaking, if someone has modern, well-chosen, and proper equipment, there is usually a reason why they are not achieving normal performance levels. This applies to clothes as well as things like bicycle pedals. In a similar vein, a person who trains in -40* weather clad in simple cotton is usually not a highly-experienced athlete or one embracing recent technology.

First off, if your buddy just had open-heart, then why is he competing in a race?
And second, I train below those temps in those things and again, would challenge ANYONE to come up here and try to keep up with whatever they have!
Third, I can understand that you might feel ripped off by your clothing company because you can see that others are getting HIGHER LEVELS of performance by keeping it simple, but you don't want to agree because inside you are probably fuming at the fact that no matter how much you spend, it just doesn't compensate for the laziness you've acquired from having everything tailored to you and being pampered by all this crap. Ie. IT IS THE RIDER! NOT THE GEAR!

[jonnysays420]

Buglady, those people were very lucky you happened to be along for the event. The guide deserves a real "Bronx Cheer" for allowing those people to even step onto the trailhead as ill-prepared as they were. Good on you for assisting those nitwits out of a jam and hopefully they learned something!

The same thing happens in cycling, too. We have folks on this thread advocating riding in cotton sweatpants beneath cotton denim jeans in -40* Fahrenheit (also -40* Celcius), which could easily become a life-threatening situation with a couple strokes of bad luck. A couple flat tires around dusk (with night quickly approaching) on a deserted country lane would be a disaster.

I agree that being prepared is what it is all about, but again you are wrong, I have had emergencies, walked back two horizons in minus 40 in that gear,
we all know cotton does not wick away sweat and we know that it might not be the first choice for most people, but again, I have never even been close to a life=threatening situation with cotton or any of that. Please tell me you carry a patch kit with you because, if your scenario happened to me I know that I would be back on the trail in a half hour (having to patch two flats and true both rims)
and I would still be warm... Simply put, whatever you are wearing, if you can't survive being stuck in the middle of nowhere, without freezing, then yes, you we'rent prepared. And if someone goes in the rockies not properly dressed, then I would have to say they are pretty stupid, but if I KNOW that my getup works, and I don't have to "follow foxwear" then you realize pretty quickly that it is the people overspending that are stupid.

[rodrigaj]

Ebay. $25 Marmot Gravity Softshell Jacket. Used.

No need to spend big bucks on good winter gear.

[JeffS]

You can get almost the same amount of power on the upstroke if u have the skill, and they are not nearly as dangerous for getting your feet out, because I can think of about 4 times in the last year that I would have been killed if I was going clipless

Oh puhleeeze....

While most everyone here will agree that you don't NEED high-end clothes to ride, the majority of the forum here rides clipless and will recognize this for the ignorant statement that it is. You've lost any credibility you might have had.

I am truly sorry if you really would have died 4 times in one year because of clipless pedals. You must have the agility of a tortoise. And yes, I did read your pickup account posted multiple times. I'm still waiting for accounts of the other three ;)

[jonnysays420]

hahaahaha that is funny that u all still wanna argue that black is white and white is black, but hey.... that is your perogative. As for whatever u wanna say about credibility, that is all it is, just something you say. Just because everyone and their dog is doing it, don't make it right. As well I won't be posting the other three accounts as it makes no difference, what happened happened and if someone is too ignorant to know the truth when it is spoken, then that is their problem,

[Blue Jays]

jonnysays, you gotta' come clean with fellow thread participants. You work for the Cotton Council or possibly the Canadian Platform Pedal Company or something, right? It's the only possible way I can see why you're posting what you're posting.

As an aside, I provided motorcycle escort at a USCF Category I & II this weekend. Lo and behold...every single rider in the peloton (without fail) was running clipless pedals. It was also worth noting they also were all wearing cycling-specific clothing. Not a polo shirt or pair of sweatpant shorts to be found in the lot of them.

[jonnysays420]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahaha phew that's pretty good, who was your role model?
the guy that jumped off the bridge with everyone else so you did too?
lordy lordy, this is hilarious, that you are still even trying to argue your futile point about clipless pedals! It seems funny that when I reply to certain peoples comments for some reason my reply wont stay.... If people want to handicap themselves by using something clipless, then by all means let them, it will just be that much easier to smoke those fools when something happens they can't react to fast enough, or if their gimmick breaks.
Keepin it Simple ;)

[jonnysays420]

[QUOTE=jonnysays420]


Well, you just needed to say it once.....and this was the first time.

I still don't see how the platforms saved you. I can take my feet off the pedals just as fast as with platforms. But if you are so uncoordinated that you can't, maybe you should stick with the platforms. But don't assume that everyone is lacking the dexterity that you are.

And maybe if you had all that time to stop the bike, take your feet off the pedals, pound on his hood and yell, you had enough time to sprint the whopping three feet to get out of the way. :rolleyes:

Maybe if you need something in order to go fast or make you not as tired, then maybe you should ride with platforms in order to work on your lack of skill shown when you cant exert as much force on a platform because you have wandered so far off what cycling is, If someone cant get as much force with their platform as any clipless or speed or whatever, then they sure as hell aint pedalling properly/

[Blue Jays]

jonnysays, nobody in the entire Tour de France peloton is listening to your groundbreaking advice to opt for platform pedals and cotton riding clothes. You're ostensibly decades before your time!

[Ernesto Schwein]

-30 C is no problem, as well as 50k in those boots... I am not saying it is easy, but I smoke cigarettes and I can do that fairly easily. I think that is awesome that you support LOBS tho.

Big bucks. . .so how much is a box of smokes in Ab these days jonny? :roflmao:

[ViperZ]

First off, if your buddy just had open-heart, then why is he competing in a race?
And second, I train below those temps in those things and again, would challenge ANYONE to come up here and try to keep up with whatever they have!
Third, I can understand that you might feel ripped off by your clothing company because you can see that others are getting HIGHER LEVELS of performance by keeping it simple, but you don't want to agree because inside you are probably fuming at the fact that no matter how much you spend, it just doesn't compensate for the laziness you've acquired from having everything tailored to you and being pampered by all this crap. Ie. IT IS THE RIDER! NOT THE GEAR!

:eek:


I applaud the idea and your efforts, however I think being a jeans wearing, platform pushing, would have been killed 4 times if you were wearing clip-less pedals, that also smokes...

Challenging just "ANYONE" to a race is absolutely delusional.

[jonnysays420]

LOL only 10.95 if you bother to pay, but I have my sources

[jonnysays420]

talk is cheap bud, why don't you use that money for a bus ticket next time round instead of buying some more crap, buy a ticket to Grande Prairie and I would be more than glad to give you a lesson in the simplicity of cycling.
;p

[TRaffic Jammer]

[QUOTE=slowandsteady]


No, I was going south in the right lane, I had right of way, and this truck was slowing down to stop at a 4 way, and as I was passing in front of him because I had right of way, he hit the gas, while looking at me and hit me. An unpredictable situation in an unpredictable world, you see I know I could use the pedals to go faster and easier, but why would I use something that limits my ability to react to (unpredictable) life? Like I said I would've been dead.

Sorry man I've been on clipless in traffic for over twenty years and I'm calling BS(so to speak). Six years as a messenger (summer/winter in MTL ) and tons of Toronto riding now, and clipless has never endangered me. Being clipped in, in no way, reduces one's ability to react to anything. In fact I can move the bike completely sideways as I split lanes of traffic. Being clipped in offers much better acceleration, and I don't think anyone will dispute this. I don't see how being clipped in or not would make a whit of difference with a truck bearing down on you? Unless you are talkin' about throwing yourself off your bike at the last possible instant to save your life. If that's the case things went south waaaay before that moment.

As for pedaling force, it's really quite simple... pushing down AND pulling up(clipless) yields more force than simply pushing down (platforms)..especially for acceleration(simple physics). To each his own but be clear on potential output vs what you get from it. I only recently acquired a killer shell jacket for the nasty weather and I lost an entire warmth layer underneath due to it's superior protection from the wet/wind. Bonus.

[ViperZ]

talk is cheap bud, why don't you use that money for a bus ticket next time round instead of buying some more crap, buy a ticket to Grande Prairie and I would be more than glad to give you a lesson in the simplicity of cycling.
;p

:roflmao: (If that comment was directed towards me)

Exactly, talk is cheap, and you have been talking a lot of smack.... :p


My best friend actually lives in Grande Prairie, I may have to take you up on the lesson. I always look forward to learning something :D

[ghettocruiser]

I demand complete youtube coverage of any race conducted to resolve a BF argument.

[Satyr]

First off, let me tell you it has nothing to do with insecurities on our side, I would have to say that it is the "gimmick driven" "cyclists" that are being insecure here... there are cold, hard facts being presented about the positives of using something low budget, and still blowing by these schmucks even when they are all decked out. You guys don't have to get defensive just because your clipless pedals are useless against someone who rides just to ride. And the words Recovery and ride in the same sentence? If you need to recover after a ride or can't keep a steady pace of 30-35 km\h indefinitely over pretty much any conditions, then I would suggest riding twice as much to get yourself back into shape. Again, plain and simple if someone in cheap getup is smoking you while you have your clipless shoes, cycling shorts, and aerodynamic gear, then maybe instead of being insecure and trying to bring others down to your level, why can't you just accept that all this crap is just that, crap! Just like playing guitar...if you learn on an acoustic, the strings are that much harder to press down, and consequently, when you go to play an electric, you sound that much better, whereas, vice versa, the guy who learned on the electric, has to now practice double, just to get used to it. '

"Riding is not about science, or heart rates.... it is about pleasure and challenge."

One of my major interests is scientific skepticism, and I have to say that everything you said above is exactly a conspiracy argument. Your cold hard facts are basically either anecdotes or anomaly hunts. For instance, some dude falling because he couldn't clip out in time (which has happened to me, too) is an anomaly in what is otherwise an awesome pedal system.

Second, you have the underlying assumption that bicycle engineers are corporate dupes and that any producer of bike parts is essentially trying to rip people off. This is like assuming that every academic medical researcher is in the pocket of Big Pharma. In order for it to be true that bicycle innovations are a load of crap, you have to basically assume that everyone in the industry is being forced to shut their mouth about what a bunch of useless garbage it is they are producing. At this point, the conspiracy becomes what is called a grand conspiracy, and those essentially collapse under their own weight. (To give you an idea of other grand conspiracies, you can think about essentially any 9/11 conspiracy, chemtrails, UFO coverups, and big pharma conspiracies esp. regarding cancer cures).

You sound a little jaded, for whatever reason. Definitely to each their own. I myself use regular gym shoes just because I go to the gym about 6 days a week. While yes, you do pay a premium for certain things, discounting innovation without any real research on your side is pretty baseless. I've found for most things NOT fashion related, you do get what you pay for. There comes a point in your life where you realize that you don't want to miss the views of the mountaintops while hiking because you spent the minimal amount on a floppy hat.

[ghettocruiser]

Well we've kept the winter forum alive almost to June, and we didn't even need Australians this time.

[Buglady]

You had Albertans, and we had snow last week :D

[TRaffic Jammer]

^^THAT was madness^^ Well, this lad still wants a winter pair of Lakes for this winter's riding.

[jonnysays420]

lol, conspiracies eh? It never ceases to amaze me the amount of skeptics here.
It is all about perception my friend. What is a conspiracy THEORY to YOU is the truth to many that have their eyes open. I really feel for the people who are just speaking about what they see and get labelled as a conspiracy theorist. For example lets talk about fast food... The corporations try to say that it is good for you, but you and I both know the truth there, so that being said.... does that make it a conspiracy because fast food is there to make money and definitely NOT pursue a healthy diet for people to eat? Or is it a conspiracy that over 1 million people died as of last year from side effects alone of drugs, not even the disease they were taking it for? Is it a theory that the heads of the FDA are also
the CEOs and CFO's of huge companies like Bayer, AstralZeneca and the like.
IF that isn't a conflict of interest, then what is. Much like the fact that they won't recognize any type of treatment, (including herbals and natural cures that have been used for centuries or even thousands of years in some cases), and they also state that ONLY a DRUG can cure a disease... It really shows how gullible the mainstream public really is and it also shows how dependent on the next gadget and needy the american public is to buy little gimmicks just because someone told them it is a good thing. I am really shocked too that anyone puts a blind faith in ANY company selling such stuff. Plain and Simple,
companies are there to make money, and consumers are there to spend it. If they told everyone that by wearing something that they made, a person could go faster, MANY MANY MANY people will buy it just because they are told that.
This is why Canada needs to ensure we do NOT embrace the ideals and politics of our neighbors to the south! Make sure that if you are Canadian, to fight to keep Canada how it is and stay true to the needs of the people rather than the Politicians of America who run their campaigns like this is Hollywood!

[jonnysays420]

Awesome, so just let me know when you're coming up, who knows maybe you're right, maybe you'll school me and shut me up about clipless and the other gimmicks, but I still havent' found anyone who has proven to me that their gear is what makes them the rider they are today. Maybe I'll end up shutting you up... either way, someone will shut someone up and the other can gloat for a while. I need about a couple months advance too on when you're coming as I have holidays booked for august this year.

Sincerely, needing to be proven wrong in grande prairie

[jonnysays420]

Again another person that doesn't know how to ride... tsk tsk.... if you can't get an upstroke on platforms, then you aren't pedalling properly. No pedal or bike was ever meant to have the pedals pushed only down! (this is why the crank moves in a circular motion) If someone is riding only pushing down they will drastically reduce the life of their BB bearings and as well by pushing only down you are giving a sideways force on your crank, wearing it extra as well. I thought this place was for cyclists?

[jonnysays420]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention if I race you, we both need to be on mtb's as I don't have a road bike, so your bike should be the equivalent of a Trek Fuel Ex (2006 model)

[Blue Jays]

Wow. FDA, pharmaceuticals, fast-food restaurants, herbal cures, the American political process, fighting for Canadian independence, and the effects of Capitalism, all mentioned within two (sort of) paragraphs...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fb/TheTwilightZoneLogo.jpg

[TRaffic Jammer]

:lol: Give us another page or two and we can solve world poverty, hunger, and why oh why can't the Leafs make the playoffs?

[ViperZ]

Awesome, so just let me know when you're coming up, who knows maybe you're right, maybe you'll school me and shut me up about clipless and the other gimmicks, but I still havent' found anyone who has proven to me that their gear is what makes them the rider they are today. Maybe I'll end up shutting you up... either way, someone will shut someone up and the other can gloat for a while.

I'm not an great cyclist, however I find it doubtful that a smoker, who has clearly shown you know nothing about pedaling dynamics, can really shut anybody up that has cycled for any length of time. Much less "Anybody with what ever they have". There are a lot of fast cyclist in the world and on these forums.

But then you did state you can maintain 30-35 km/h indefinitely (and on a mountain bike) :eek:

I have only been able to maintain 32 km/hr average, for 162 km (100 miles), 5 hours.... In a century last year on a road bike... You maybe one faast smoking dude :D

Don't get me wrong, I'm not out to shut you up, and I'm not some Internet tough guy that thinks he can beat everybody in a cycling race, however you did throw down the glove challenge ...




I need about a couple months advance too on when you're coming as I have holidays booked for august this year.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention if I race you, we both need to be on mtb's as I don't have a road bike, so your bike should be the equivalent of a Trek Fuel Ex (2006 model)


Back pedaling now are we...? I'm ready to go :D Tell you what, when your schedule allows, feel free to come here anytime to ride with me ;)


You did say "I train below those temps in those things and again, would challenge ANYONE to come up here and try to keep up with whatever they have!"

"talk is cheap bud, why don't you use that money for a bus ticket next time round instead of buying some more crap, buy a ticket to Grande Prairie and I would be more than glad to give you a lesson in the simplicity of cycling.
;p "

However fair is fair, I have something for you....






Sincerely, needing to be proven wrong in grande prairie

You have already proved yourself wrong many times in this thread :lol:

You do know that climbing hills and maintaining flat land velocity requires pedaling in efficient circles, (spinning) which requires pushing down, forward, pulling backwards, and pulling up on the pedals? (Actually I don't think you do, as you have clearly indicated here) This can't be done on platforms regardless how much you say you know how to pedal.

[jakub.ner]

Again another person that doesn't know how to ride... tsk tsk.... if you can't get an upstroke on platforms, then you aren't pedalling properly. ...

Jonny, I used to use clipless pedals and stopped for utilitarian reasons. I don't mind giving up a performance boost for utility. I try and practice the lift-flick-claw pedalling technique I read about a couple years ago:

http://www.perfectcondition.ltd.uk/Articles/Pedalling/LFC%20ideas/LFC%20Notes.htm

The description of LFC applies to platforms, but the author discusses the technique for clipless pedals.

I don't know how I could improve on the upstroke other than by not counter acting my other foot as per the LFC technique. I.e. on the upstroke I lift but that doesn't add to my driving of the wheels other than by not counter acting the other foot that is clawing.

[ViperZ]

^^^ For my commutes, I switched to platforms for part of the winter this year when the snow was deep. I was never so happy to return to my SPD's in spring.


On another note, it was strange to ride with out a balaclava, I rode with one for ~5 months (Oct-March), it took a few weeks to get use to not wearing one :)

[jonnysays420]

Haha, right on, short and sweet, oh by the way, oh and by the way buddy, u are forgetting, Canada is Independent! As well, u are the one who started with the conspiracy bs, I was merely showing you how anything could be viewed as one, when u started talking, I was just like damn! This guy must smoke some ****in deadly ****! Where do you get ur stash? And how much, and is it for sale?

[jonnysays420]

haha, whatever u say, and I don't backpedal, I am still right here, and as soon as I mention that I need a specific date is just me letting u know when I will be here and when I will be gone. And lol, again if you can't get good performance about out of a platform, then maybe you aren't riding to ride. I never said as well that platforms don't make you faster when you use them either, I said that after you try to go back to platform, or ride just any normal bike, then that person is at a handicap. I should as well say, I did exxaggerate the 35-40km avg speed, I should have said that if one can't recover while riding, then something is wrong. To be realistic I should say avg maybe 25 kmph (through the bush)

[jonnysays420]

Good article! That more or less sums up what I have been trying to say, as well I notice that if one doesn't constantly practice LFC (which a guy can't really do with clipless) , then their cycling deteriorates rapidly and takes a while to get back up to par.

[ViperZ]

haha, whatever u say, and I don't backpedal, I am still right here, and as soon as I mention that I need a specific date is just me letting u know when I will be here and when I will be gone. And lol, again if you can't get good performance about out of a platform, then maybe you aren't riding to ride. I never said as well that platforms don't make you faster when you use them either, I said that after you try to go back to platform, or ride just any normal bike, then that person is at a handicap. I should as well say, I did exxaggerate the 35-40km avg speed, I should have said that if one can't recover while riding, then something is wrong. To be realistic I should say avg maybe 25 kmph (through the bush)

I'm not sure I fully understood all that.... Other than "I did exxaggerate..' No matter though :lol:

Somehow, I feel bad, for I should know better than to tease SN people :o

[jonnysays420]

I find it pretty pathetic that you can't see the truth when it is staring you in the face, and at least I can admit if I exxaggerated something. And please, you can use the full word other than a vague acronym, (never heard SN b4). As well, you are the one accusing me of backpedalling, well I am still right here and whenever you want to come here (as long as it isn't august) I will still be here. I see u backpedalling and self-projecting that at me. Also will your type ever just let cycling be just that? Something simple to enjoy and NOT complicated like the rest of life, but again, just like someone said before, if you build it (useless crap) then they will come (pps who need to have a gadget to "make them go faster", like yourself)

[JeffS]

Again another person that doesn't know how to ride... tsk tsk.... if you can't get an upstroke on platforms, then you aren't pedalling properly. No pedal or bike was ever meant to have the pedals pushed only down! (this is why the crank moves in a circular motion) If someone is riding only pushing down they will drastically reduce the life of their BB bearings and as well by pushing only down you are giving a sideways force on your crank, wearing it extra as well. I thought this place was for cyclists?


Wow... I thought you were a troll but now realize you're just an idiot.

Please, enlighten us as to how you're getting vertical lift on a flat pedal without straps or clips. The scientific community is dying to know how your elite skills have transcended the laws of physics.

[Blue Jays]

I've come to the conclusion that jonnysays420 hasn't been educated about the differences between a platform pedal, a clipless pedal, and a pedal with toeclips in all these years. A platform pedal is truly flat, and it occasionally has nubs/teeth for grip. The clipless pedal works similar to a ski binding as the rider "clicks" into the pedals in the same fashion. Toeclips are engaged by the foot sliding into place with straps cinched firmly. Perhaps these pictures will help him:

Platform pedal:
http://www.calhouncycle.com/productcart/pc/catalog/pryamid-alloy_1153_general.jpg

Clipless pedal:
http://www.performancebike.com/product_images/250/50-0955-NCL-ANGLE.jpg

Pedal with toeclips:
http://danonthe.net/images/toeclips.jpg

[TRaffic Jammer]

Wow... I thought you were a troll but now realize you're just an idiot.

Please, enlighten us as to how you're getting vertical lift on a flat pedal without straps or clips. The scientific community is dying to know how your elite skills have transcended the laws of physics.

Magnetic shoes.... sneaky.

[jakub.ner]

So I did something somewhat on impulse yesterday, somewhat because this discussion got me thinking again.

I used to use all different types of clipless before and switched to platforms two winters ago. Didn't look back until yesterday. My reason: simplicity. I want things simple and clipless seem a lot more complicated than platforms. They also complicate footwear choice.

But I like long distance riding. And I've done a week long tour on platforms last year. What dawned on me is that clipless is actually simpler in regards to pedalling. It's easier on you, no worries when wet (I have smooth platforms on my bikes: folding). And less effort during the "lift".

I figure I'm not a pro. Maybe some people can manouver their car on ice without ABS, but for a normal guy like me ABS simplifies things (through some complicated wizardry). Same with platforms. Perhaps (anecdotally) some people can perform awesomly on simple platforms, but clipless will simplify pedalling and make things overall better for me.

I bought a pair of clipless pedals yesterday. (I still have all my shoes and I simply used them without cleats on platforms)

[jonnysays420]

ahaahahaaahaa! you guys are so freakin funny! I just find it amusing how much it is pissing you guys off because someone else doesn't need a gadget to go as fast as the rest of u. Congratulations on your discovery of the 3 types of pedal! and once again, with LFC pedalling, there should be no appreciable difference in speed, just that a guy has to work harder to ride,
than with clipless or toe clips, which is what I've been advocating since I put this post on.
Just the simple fact that when someone relies on technology, when they don't have it, they are at a much larger disadvantage than someone who had to work harder for every bit.

[jonnysays420]

if u have a video cam and if Viperz doesn't back out!

[jonnysays420]

hahahaha this is some shiite! Sorry, I was just trying to find people who could be objective about the pros and cons of something, and there have been a few good posts, however. I didn't realize that there were so many people here who must've never been laid (your bike seat doesn't count), if u put as much effort into training with just platforms, you could too be as fast as when you are clipless. (with more effort it is no problem to keep up)

[jonnysays420]

Thanks Jakub! Here we FINALLY have someone objective taking a good look at the difference between the two systems, not trying to hate on someone who doesn't mind working harder to achieve the same velocities! I whole heartedly agree that someone who has a hard time with platforms, should maybe ride clipless or that is looking for that little bit of edge on a RIDE (singular), I agree that this person will not need the same level of skill as someone who tries it on platties!

[ViperZ]

I find it pretty pathetic that you can't see the truth when it is staring you in the face, and at least I can admit if I exxaggerated something. And please, you can use the full word other than a vague acronym, (never heard SN b4). As well, you are the one accusing me of backpedalling, well I am still right here and whenever you want to come here (as long as it isn't august) I will still be here. I see u backpedalling and self-projecting that at me. Also will your type ever just let cycling be just that? Something simple to enjoy and NOT complicated like the rest of life, but again, just like someone said before, if you build it (useless crap) then they will come (pps who need to have a gadget to "make them go faster", like yourself)


What I find pathetic is you coming on here telling everybody what a great cyclist you are, and then challenging any and everybody to a race... :lol:

Most people here are cycling enthusiasts, or serious and/or performance riders that enjoy spending a bit of money on the hobby to make the sport more comfortable, to yield higher performance gains. As performance cyclists, we tend to be more health conscious about our nutrition, health and training.
Yet somehow you feel you have the secret key to being a better cyclist :rolleyes:


Lets Look at the Facts Shall we...

1) You Smoke
2) You Ride Platforms (thus can't spin)
3) You Ride in Jeans and many heavy layers (nothing wrong with this, but it's just not hi performance thinking)
4) You have been Known to exaggerate your claims (many or all?)
5) Given all the above, you still openly challenge any and everybody to a race regardless of who they are or what they have(Internet tough guy) Do you realize how st00pid that is in itself?


Personally, I don't think you are as fast as you say you are, and you would not survive a 50 km fast paced ride, much less a race against a lot of serious performance riders. Your empty challenges are laughable at best, if it were not for all the other moronic statements and claims you have made here.


Sure I may spend my money on cycling and outdoor crap, but at least at the end of the day I have something to show for it. You on the other hand burn your money in cigarettes, which not only means you spend more money on real crap, you are also damaging your health... Garbage in Garbage out.

If you really cared about your cycling performance you would not smoke, end of story...



Also will your type ever just let cycling be just that? Something simple to enjoy and NOT complicated like the rest of life


Now you are making claims that I don't enjoy cycling...?


*I bicycle commute to work 5 days a week, winter rain or shine, I have been doing this for 15 years through all seasons even when it's -40C.

*I ride 100km on Saturdays with Cat 2-3 racers in a very fast paced high energy ride, where average speeds are higher than 32km/hr.

*I ride 50KM on Wednesday evening with Cat 2-3 Racers, same ride as Saturday, but shorter due to the reduced day light after work hours.

*I ride 50Km interval training on Thursdays with a mix group of people, where we push ourselves on a loop course. We have a lot of fun doing this.


I certainly don't do it to be frugal and I own a few cars, so I know why I do it. Yet again some how you have a clearer understanding of why I do what I do...



if u have a video cam and if Viperz doesn't back out!

If I visit Darral, I may look you up, but only to get a picture to post. Do you really think this race would happen? What would we say to each other and how would it be? Would we be all friendly as if we are long lost friends, or would we snarl at each other, gritting out teeth, with out even shaking hands? :lol:

Seriously, I have nothing to prove to you, and would only make the journey to visit my buddy, if I was to come to GP. You on the other hand are the one ranting and boasting about how fast you are on platforms, jeans all the while smoking a cigarette... You have everything to prove.

I would not make the journey to GP just to race you, for somehow I get the strong feeling you would disappoint me, or be a no show. You have exaggerated your claims of speed, and I would suspect your near death experiences.... And your only recourse is to challenge the Internet to a race??

That's what's Pathetic..

People here know who I am and what I look like, so I would say if you really want to race me, and show me how great you are, I will be here in Saskatoon, ready to be schooled any time :)

I have nothing to prove to anybody but myself, and I'm quite happy with my results. You are more than welcome to try and show me the light.

This is a photo from one of my 100mile rides, just incase you think I'm full of it (self projection as you say ;) )

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/7514/havestcentury27sp4.jpg

Ride Log
-Speed 44.2 km/h
-Cadence 85 RPM
-Trip Time 5:02.02
-Distance 161.02 km
-Average Speed 32 km/h
-Heart rate 173 bpm



Now if you'll excuse me, I have a 50km MTB ride this Fine Sunday morning with my bike club http://www.htguide.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_wave2.gif

[jonnysays420]

you are saying that I challenge any and everyone to a ride, I merely think that is the only way to prove that, and I am only arguing back because you seem to think that I am full of it and I know what works for me, ie, cheap gear except for the bike, I personally just see me not needing extra speed, I find that I haven't had a situation where I would want clipless, or a certain piece of wear, like I said b4, each to his own. You wonder what it would be like if we met... well, I will tell you that I am not the type of guy to hate anyone, or be viscious over some words, cuz that's what they are, words. What kind of person would I be if I didn't enjoy learning something or teaching something. I started this forum for what the title is and not to get into arguments with people and fight about who is a better cyclist. again, the race is merely the only way I can think to prove my point. As well I want to hit on the "torque on the upstroke w\ platforms"
I went and tested myself the other day because I wanted to really look hard at what is happening when I pedal like that. At first I thought it was the LFC pedalling that is so often talked about, but after reading some more about Lift Flick Click pedalling, I realized that still is not how I pedal. LFC does not generate power on the upstroke, and with it your toes aren't pointed downward.... When I am at the top of my stroke, my feet are flat, as I am at about 3 o clock my toes are pointed upward, flat at 6 oclock and pointing downward at 9 o clock then flat thru the top again.. In this way I am able to push the pedal forward, down, back, up. If you want to continue arguing over some stupid pedals that is fine, I believe what I believe, and you believe what you believe. If you want to come to GP sometime we don't have to be jocks and have it out, I would like to meet you and who knows maybe you will change my mind, maybe I will change yours, but either way I think it is pointless to escalate it to name calling or worse, so maybe we could be smart about this and better ourselves for having challenged each other