Mountain Biking - What is this Sram stuff?

I've been gone from bikes 10 years, at least. I've come back to a new world. I see Shimano still on top and this Sram...a challenger, different, better, Old China against Old Japan? WHat!?

Someone tell me!!


munk

Sram is known for their gripshift parts, 9.0, X.0, and soon to be X.9, it works in a 1:1 ratio.

You mean a movement on controller device will result in equal movement/travel on shifting device?

They make cranks, too.


munk

Originally posted by munk
You mean a movement on controller device will result in equal movement/travel on shifting device?

They make cranks, too.


munk

No, but that is the nice thing about sram, you will be able to use what ever crankset you want, Race Face, Truvative, etc... Where in a couple of years you will only be able to use shimano parts with other shimano parts.

I don't get it; why? How does the crank determine what derailer you use?



munk

To translate what I said:
Shimano is starting to monopolize.

No translation neccesary. The question still remains.

munk

Look at the 2003 Shimano XTR, in a few years if you want to use a shimano bb you will have to use shimano cranks, in order for the xtr brakes to work you need to use shimano's shifter, which is sti, the brake lever doubles as the shifter, the disc brakes can only be used with xtr hubs, which will soon only be able to be used with XTR wheels, and each year each level will become like this. It is also rumored that shimano is developing the front deraillieur to be somehow integrated with the crank set. Don't forget a price increase with the parts. It's a long and confusing process. So the time is now to get an xt crankset, because in 2004, xt will be like xtr.

danka24 - you put that really well. Like you mentioned and it's almost quite subtle, but so many Shimano parts are intended to be used on specific drivetrain setups and configurations and it's very expensive to switch over to other Shimano setups later...unless of course, you contemplate a complete replacement as a package...at great expense.

It should not be like that. We should be able to mix-and-match as we want, within reason, but I've long suspected that the Big S has reasons for it's technology roadmap that does not necessarily benefit the biking community.

Originally posted by munk
I've been gone from bikes 10 years, at least.

Hmmm... must have been quite a bit longer than 10 years. SRAM arrived heavily on the scene in 1990 although they had been around for a few years prior. then again, maybe I was more exposed to them by being in the Chicago area where they're based.

khuon - what's with your avatar? It looks a bit like a spaced out jelly. You on drugs or something?:D

Originally posted by danka24
No, but that is the nice thing about sram, you will be able to use what ever crankset you want, Race Face, Truvative, etc... Where in a couple of years you will only be able to use shimano parts with other shimano parts.

It would be REALLY nice if SRAM made a front derailleur. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Bokkie
khuon - what's with your avatar? It looks a bit like a spaced out jelly. You on drugs or something?:D

It's called The Useless Blob and somehow I felt it was appropriate.

OK, that's what I was afraid of- Shimano designing their stuff so it just won't work or won't work well with other manufacturers components.

I'd initially thought it was the deal where if say, Trek, wanted a Shimano rear derailer they'd have to buy the crank too or nothing. There are many restrictions of trade in the US despite laws to the contrary. Many firearms manufacturers won't allow a distributor or shop to carry their brand and get the good guy price unless they agree not to carry so and so. Then you get Browning illegally establishing a ceiling price you cannot sell below.

In which case- more power to Sram. They are from China, right? Wrong? I'd like to see Japan lose it's stranglehold anyway.

as for me and riding, yes, somewhere in 90, 91, 92 or so I pretty much stopped. I got off the bike- and bought a truck. So ended a special time in my life. I'd ridden without a vehicle for 4 years.

Thanks all for the data, especially Danka. Forgive my bonehead questions.

munk

Originally posted by munk

In which case- more power to Sram. They are from China, right? Wrong? I'd like to see Japan lose it's stranglehold anyway.


SRAM is a US company... started in Chicago, IL, USA. They now own Sachs and RockShox and they have offices and factories worldwide in such places as Ireland, Mexico, Germany and Taiwan.

Even better.



munk

SRAM kicksass and busts heads at the punk rock show. I switched to it from Sh!tmano and haven't looked back..Except for my road bike.

Originally posted by fubar5
..Except for my road bike.

Campy young jedi, Campy!!:beer:

Originally posted by KevinG
Campy young jedi, Campy!!:beer:


The day will come. :beer:

My day came today!!

Originally posted by KevinG
My day came today!!

Never knew Bianchi's came in another colour than that Green, JK, thats a sexy ride.

The question should be, "Why would you buy a Bianchi in any color BUT Celeste Green?" J/k KevG. Nice bike, for a roadie!

L8R

What does a Bianchi Campy bike cost nowadays?



munk

Originally posted by munk
What does a Bianchi Campy bike cost nowadays?



munk

The Veloce retails for $1499.00.

Whats' with the pansy spoke guard??

NIce bike dude :beer:

Campy rules...though i dont have a descent road bike at the moment....i really hope that at a given time i ll own a fine italian frame (colnago or pinarello or bianchi) with full on campy.....and i really hope that they ll produce an mtb group good enough to kill the opposition...... I maybe dreaming here but imagine a RekordMTB discbrake....:D:D:D:D:D...may our wishes come true..

Originally posted by math2p14
I maybe dreaming here but imagine a RekordMTB discbrake....:D:D:D:D:D...may our wishes come true..

Campy used to offer the RecordOR (Record-OffRoad) back in the early 90s. The build quality was excellent. It was 8-speed when others only went as high as 7 but it weighed more than comparable S-brands and cost a lot. I don't know about Europe but in the US, availability was limited as were replacement parts so not many people sprang for it.

Yes khuon....i rode one recordOR in 1994 ...it was awesome...but pricey as you say. But...in Europe (where i am !) parts for campy and marzocchi are everywhere.... i understand about the US issue though. Personally i wouldnt mind paying more for campy ...cause when you break something you can replace only the part damaged (lets say a bolt or a shifting mechanism and not the whole shifter). A good example is road groups...DuraACE vs Rekord.... loads of repairability on Campy. On the other hand i adore my shimano XT discs...but they have loads of repairability as well since they where originally designed by Grimeca and then refined by shimano.

If you think of Shimano as Intel and Campy as Microsoft,
SRAM is sort of like Apple computer - stylish, high quality
products but not nearly the marketshare of the big boys.

My wife has SRAM drivetrain, brakes and shifters on her bike
and it works well for her.

Not Yet!

Sram keeps producing top quality parts, and waits until all the bugs have been worked out before they hit the street. I'm still waiting for their disc brakes to hit the street. I think they've been working on them for over 3 years.

Using your computer analogy, that would make Shimano more like Microsoft! he he!

L8R

Lets just hope SRAM isn't REALLY like apple with a dumb marketting group and miss there chance to really take a chunk in the market :)

Call me stunned, well I am and I have reason to be, but thats besides the point,

I read the review on the X7 -X9 shifters, and still have a hard time thinking how the thumb portion is to be moved to move up the rings. does it move at 90 degrees to the trigger?

Has anyone given em a try yet?

Not yet, still waiting. I tend not to buy things during their first year of production. Actually, I wait 3 years. The first year, they find out what doesn't work, by the time this happens, they're alreading into the 2nd year of production, so changes don't happen until the 3rd year maybe 4th!

That and I'm a cheap bastard and wait to buy stuff on closeout!

L8R

Guess what I'm running. The X9 shifters, they are a bit awkward at first, but as soon as you get used to them, shifting it is second nature.

Campy young jedi, Campy!!

Hell yea!! :D

Originally posted by danka24
Guess what I'm running. The X9 shifters, they are a bit awkward at first, but as soon as you get used to them, shifting it is second nature.

Sort of like Shimano's Dual Control Levers:D :D

I think the SRAM shifters are going to suffer from more wear and tear than the Shimano triggers simply because their spool release mechanism is more complicated than Shimanos. In the New Dual Control configuration the spool and release mechansm are positioned in a more advantageous manner to aid faster shifts and improve reliability.

The new SRAM triggers are not going to corner Shimano's market which is OEM's.If you want to buy a bike speced to your requirements you're going to have to spend about 20% more than an OEM of the peg machine fitted with Shimano's dual control and disc's.

And if you read yuor literature properly you'll realsie that there will still be many options when using Shimano components.

Persoanlly I think Shimano make the best MTB components (except chains). Everything is high quality, top notch performance and does'nt cost an arm to own.

I switchd from SRAM to the big S and won't be going back ever. Well Done Shimano XTR still rules the component tree:beer:

There have been some good reviews about the saint. Some things I was REALLY concerned about have been remedied

1 - rear hub has 36 engagement points like a freeride hub should. This is brilliant and a good move on shimanos part. Hopefully they will be durable.
2 - DT has already made a shimano saint compatible hub and more are to come supposedly. This means I don't have to use shimano brakes (as it also has an adaptor to run 6 hole) or even the shimano hub.
3 - rumours are they are leaving the regular shifters on the market and giving the option to upgrade to the crappy ones they designed. This instead of what I considered to be a microsoft move where they would force me to use something that sucks ass.

I still don't like the rear deraileur attached to hub idea but at least things look 'better'. There are also rumours that shimano has gotten such bad feedback about the saint line that they are rethinking some aspects of it.



Sort of like Shimano's Dual Control Levers


Not like that at all. For people who have one finger on the brake 90% of the time dual control is the most ridiculous idea devised. At least the Sram shifter is simply a small modification to current shifting. Leave the dual control to xc only please.

Now I will be interested in cost. Xc guys are way more inclined to spend a fortune on their drive train than freeride/dhilles. If Saint is the same price as XTR I highly doubt it will sell as well as the new xtr. We generally care about chain guide (no front shifting) and a rear deraileur that is cheap to replace.



Persoanlly I think Shimano make the best MTB components (except chains). Everything is high quality, top notch performance and does'nt cost an arm to own.


I am not even gonna touch this one. I am just 100% sure you are wrong. (xtr doesn't cost an arm and a leg...sheesh)

Originally posted by Maelstrom
Leave the dual control to xc only please.

This XC guy will pass on dual-control, thank you very much. Dual-control on my roadbike is fine but even there I'm really thinking I'll switch over to Campy once the Shimano stuff wears out. I've not had that many incidences where I accidently shift while braking but when I do, it's extremely frustrating.

Originally posted by khuon
This XC guy will pass on dual-control, thank you very much. Dual-control on my roadbike is fine but even there I'm really thinking I'll switch over to Campy once the Shimano stuff wears out. I've not had that many incidences where I accidently shift while braking but when I do, it's extremely frustrating.

At last a person with a valid reason for not liking the new dual control shifters..:beer:

I found that problematic at first as well but I learned to cope quite quickly. I can now Brake and downshift with RR derailleur fitted. It's all about lever positioning and relaxing to keep control of your actions.

Originally posted by Maelstrom
There have been some good reviews about the saint. Some things I was REALLY concerned about have been remedied


Originally I didn't give more than a passing glance at the saint line, but I'll admit there is some appeal beginning to swell up in my bike geek self. I find myself asking if maybe I couldn't play it off as an investment; based losely on the (probably false) idea that it will last long enough to be cost effective over a deore/alivo type setup.

Anyone have any idea what companies are planning on releasing bikes with a saint build?

Originally posted by TimB
At last a person with a valid reason for not liking the new dual control shifters..:beer:


No my reason is valid to. I didn't even think of misshifts while braking. I was thinking of all the manuals, bunny hops and j-hops I need to do which require me to rotate my hand on grips. I always keep one finger on the brake so misshifting will occur.

And Dil I don't know of any companies that are releasing a saint build right now. I imagine the smalled boutique freeride bikes may do it first. Banshee in their gucci line for example. I am unable to think of any other companies at this time. Maybe some of the more expensive 'team' bikes :shrug: