Biodiesel

[BikeManDan]

I realize this is more "Oil Dependence Free" rather than "Car Free" but I figure...close enough

I'm all about cycling, haven't driven my car in a month and only drive when absolutely necessary. There however are those necessary times and I'd like to become more flexible by having a vehicle that is self sufficient in terms of fuel. I mainly am interested in using the car to weekly go to the county dump to pick up any bikes I find so I can refurbish them and recycle them back into the community.

Any words of advice?
I've read lots of info online but still could use more, especially anecdotal.

Thinking about a Mercedes turbodiesel but still not sure on vehicle. A compact truck seems like a good idea but can't find one.

[scottyk]

If you can find one, a 81-84 Nissan or Datsun 720 pickup is a good choice. I have one but havent run biodiesel in it yet.

[lyeinyoureye]

There are tons of compact diesel pickups from the 80s, but they usually cost an arm and a leg given gas prices. Determine how big/fast/reliable/expensive you want your truck to be, and then look up engine/vehicle interchangeability. It's wayyyyy cheaper to buy a gasser that isn't running and source a diesel engine for it, then to buy an old diesel pickup, for tons of cash, with god knows what wrong w/ it. If all you're hauling is bikes, just look for clean vw rabbit shell, find a diesel engine and drop it in. Use a small trailer for the bikes. It's probably not financially viable to run WVO in CA with a car that efficient unless you do it under the table, but if you really want to pay the extra $$$ for your troubled soul, I don't think anyone will stop you.

[BikeManDan]

Where would one go about finding a diesel engine for a swap?

Would a Rabbit, Merc TD, etc actually pull a trailer? (on graded road?)

Why do you say that using waste vegetable oil isn't financially viable?

[lyeinyoureye]

Diesels can generally be found for not a whole lot from a local junk yard, ebay, where ever. Check out car-part.com for stuff that's listed and local'ish.

Most anything will pull a small trailer on a graded road in the right gear. In my beat to absolute hell rabbit, I could handle ~10%+ grades in 3rd gear at 55mph np. A manual Mercedes would do as well if not better.

In order to use WVO legally in CA, you have to get a permit transport it, as well as a license for your vehicle, and ~1 million bucks worth of liability insurance on said vehicle as well as record/pay road tax on every gallon you use. Iirc, that's ~$250 per year, which will take you at least 3,000 miles a year in a rabbit (~6,000 miles if you go balls out for efficiency), not counting the cost of the system. There's also the EPA, which probably won't, but may step in, since you would be using a fuel that isn't approved in the case of WVO (not biodiesel). If you can find a local co-op that's off the radar, it may be easiest to pay the person/s that collect it whatever the per gallon tax rate is, plus whatever they want, and the membership fees than collect your own oil. It's not terribly risky, but at the same time, don't go around broadcasting it either.

[BikeManDan]

Ah, gotcha. Thanks for the info.
But it is then completely legit to get waste cooking oil and then convert it to biodiesel, right?

I would actually prefer a Rabbit right now but unfortunately it seems in CA the only damn diesels available are those Mercs

[lyeinyoureye]

Yup. With the conversion to biodiesel, I'm pretty sure you're legit from the POV of the fed and local guberment. Just make sure to record use and pay the appropriate road tax, if you can.

[BikeManDan]

Why is it that I see a lot of people running 99% biodiesel (B99) instead of 100?

[lyeinyoureye]

Seems to be for tax purposes
The reason B99 is showing up at the pump is that the fuel blender can take a 1 cent per percent excise tax credit for blended fuels.

Although there exists a $1.00 income tax credit for the seller if the fuel is sold as B100. The excise tax credit is immediate and is not taxed like the B100 credit. Therefore the seller of a biodiesel blend up to B99.9 recieves a quarterly payment of one cent per percent of biodiesel for every gallon sold.

See these links for the new IRS Tax publications and the forms to be used by the seller. In some cases, the user on form 8864 can claim the income tax credit if the B100 is used in business or trade. This does not apply to B99.9 or and blend of fuel, only B100.

Fuel Tax Credits and Refunds http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p378.pdf Chapter 7 is biodiesel used as fuel (B100)
Form 8864 http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8864.pdf B100 form
Form 8849 http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8849s3.pdf Mixture form
Form 720 http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f720.pdf

Although I am a B100 advocate, using B99.9 may be the way it has to be for now. The one gallon in a thousand is sort of like denaturing the fuel. Just look at it as a .001% tax additive.

[old and new]

Biodeisals are quite rare and costly to buy. A MB car isn't cheap either,I worked with MB,standards are long gone.A man stated Nissan,OK, again deisal-equipt PUs are rarer,I worked at a Nissan dealer,Ford Dodges too.They were always rare. A deisal anyting costs alot. If you need a truck,rent an Isuzu or GMC deisal cab-over.They're not expensive to rent,hold alot too.. you'll dedicate five grand on a deisal truck,not to mention Californias WAY stiffer em.cont. laws.,narrows the choices even further.Bio-deisal's a flight o' fancy for now.

[lyeinyoureye]

Whoo boy. CA allows any used diesel w/ more than 12k miles on the clock iirc, smog exempt, the whole shebang. Any older diesel is as expensive as the cash you put into it. If you're smart and thrifty, you can build/buy something reliable for pretty cheap.

[old and new]

lyeinyoueye when's the last deisal you rebuilt ?? Mine was 10 months ago. WITHOUT a crank it cost the cust. 3,500 machining and parts,mostly top-end and machine shop laber,NO rem. or inst. in vehical. Deisals are NOT cheap, folkes don't part with a running deisal,forget about wrecks,folkes in the buss, get first shot at them. Not cheap indeed, talk is though !

[lyeinyoureye]

$1600 shipped (http://vwdieselparts.com/reman1.htm) for an assembled reman. A few hundred less if you assemble yourself. Probably even less if you can scrounge up the parts you need and only re-ring or whatnot. Iirc install is ~$2200 total (don't quote me on this, but the motor only takes a few hours to drop out and back in), and everything comes with a 1 year unlimited miles warranty. I haven't rebuilt one yet, but I figure I'll need to eventually, so I've been checking out all the big VW sites. :D

[old and new]

so he's gonna go to the dump to scrounge junked bikes and haul 'em home in a Golf diesel.is that the idea ??? AND YOU STILL didn't address the bio-issue. I won't quote YOU on anything..When was the last time you swung an engine ???? You can't scrouge deisal parts & you can't swing a VW FWD engine in less than 6-8 hours,THAT's if you're good. To pay ,which in itself seems uncomprehendable to you,would cost several hundred.Your #'s don't work,not for diesels.You MAY scramble for incomplete information in cybor world but cybor, not real. You ,simply are not knowledgeable,stick to buyin' $35 bikes.You're dismissed !

[lyeinyoureye]

PM'd you about my "knowledge". What bio-issue are you talking about?

[I-Like-To-Bike]

Why do you say that using waste vegetable oil isn't financially viable?
Where would you get it in sufficient quantities and with reliability day or night? Who do you think is going to give it, or sell it to you?

[jbhowat]

so he's gonna go to the dump to scrounge junked bikes and haul 'em home in a Golf diesel.is that the idea ??? AND YOU STILL didn't address the bio-issue. I won't quote YOU on anything..When was the last time you swung an engine ???? You can't scrouge deisal parts & you can't swing a VW FWD engine in less than 6-8 hours,THAT's if you're good. To pay ,which in itself seems uncomprehendable to you,would cost several hundred.Your #'s don't work,not for diesels.You MAY scramble for incomplete information in cybor world but cybor, not real. You ,simply are not knowledgeable,stick to buyin' $35 bikes.You're dismissed !

I don't know where you're located, but diesels aren't THAT expensive here. I'm in the auto business, I've rebuilt diesels and even THAT isn't that expensive. I have a lot of experience both personally and professionally with M-B Diesels. I've also dealt with older VW diesels that friends owned - those are a bit harder to get ahold of, honestly. In my local CL there are a ton of MB diesels. For <$3000 you could buy one that is in fine condition, or you can buy one with a few problems for under a grand (and by that I mean an easy to fix problem). There's one with a blown turbo for $700, I'd be willing to bet you can get a new turbo and install it yourself for another couple hundred. No, you're not going to be able to get a diesel as the cheapest car possible. I'm sure an older Civic from the same period would be cheaper - but regardless of fuel type you're comparing a MB to a Honda. Those old full-size Benz's are very nice luxury vehicles.

[ModoVincere]

Where would you get it in sufficient quantities and with reliability day or night? Who do you think is going to give it, or sell it to you?

I can't speak for anything outside of GA, but there's a guy in N.GA that goes around collecting WVO from fast food joints. He then cracks the stuff himself, and has several MW's of diesel generators available. He uses the cracked WVO to generate electricity and sell it to the power co. I used to work for. Under the laws that existed in the late 90's and early 2000's, we had to buy that power at a specified price.
He was making money collecting the WVO and making money on the electric generation as well.
I think the laws changed sometime around 2005, but not sure as I was not working in an area that had to keep up with that.

[BikeManDan]

Where would you get it in sufficient quantities and with reliability day or night? Who do you think is going to give it, or sell it to you?
Sufficient quantities for someone who drives very seldom is not hard to come by. Arrangements can be made with local restaurants.
Reliability day or night isn't required either, I hardly drive. The idea though is that you get a bunch of oil, refine it to biodiesel and then store it for when you need it.


I am eying MB diesels for around $2500 right now


Does anyone have suggestions of expanding the fuel capacity for long trips (I drive to LA to see family, cheaper than flying even on gas). Would the best option be to simply stick a trunkful of biodiesel?

[I-Like-To-Bike]

I can't speak for anything outside of GA, but there's a guy in N.GA that goes around collecting WVO from fast food joints. He then cracks the stuff himself, and has several MW's of diesel generators available. He uses the cracked WVO to generate electricity and sell it to the power co. I used to work for. Under the laws that existed in the late 90's and early 2000's, we had to buy that power at a specified price.
He was making money collecting the WVO and making money on the electric generation as well.
I think the laws changed sometime around 2005, but not sure as I was not working in an area that had to keep up with that.
I don't doubt a few individuals could make a dollar collecting WVO for use in a static engine or for going nowhere far from the source. But as a practical source of mobility fuel for anyone who actually wants to get somewhere, especially in comparison to readily available other fuels, gimme a break. As a mobility fuel WVO may be useful for making a political or ideological statement for those who have extra dollars on hand, and little else.

[I-Like-To-Bike]

Sufficient quantities for someone who drives very seldom is not hard to come by. Arrangements can be made with local restaurants.
Reliability day or night isn't required either, I hardly drive. The idea though is that you get a bunch of oil, refine it to biodiesel and then store it for when you need it.


I am eying MB diesels for around $2500 right now


Does anyone have suggestions of expanding the fuel capacity for long trips (I drive to LA to see family, cheaper than flying even on gas). Would the best option be to simply stick a trunkful of biodiesel?
What are you trying to prove?

[BikeManDan]

What are you trying to prove?
What the hell kind of question is that?

I'm just trying to use a sustainable fuel for when I need to drive

[lyeinyoureye]

I don't doubt a few individuals could make a dollar collecting WVO for use in a static engine or for going nowhere far from the source. But as a practical source of mobility fuel for anyone who actually wants to get somewhere, especially in comparison to readily available other fuels, gimme a break. As a mobility fuel WVO may be useful for making a political or ideological statement for those who have extra dollars on hand, and little else.

How is it not practical? CA has the most stringent standards, and even then, it's only ~$250 per year to legally collect/transport it. As long as the cost of driving on diesel is greater than this, it's practical. For someone who drives 1,000 miles a year, *probably not, but for most of us who have to deal with CA's craptacular public transit system, it's great. Given that a small restaurant would love to enter a rendering contract where they don't have to pay to have their oil removed, and the waste oil stream is way larger than the supply of converted diesels, and probably will be for some time, it's pretty darn practical if the person invests the time in it. Also, what the heck about this is getting under everyone's skin? The OP's probably asking here because this is where most of the posters go on about how they're saving the environment by biking, etc... Isn't this something along the same lines? The upside being fewer carbon dioxide emissions than someone who biked the same amount, but greater local PM and NOx emissions.

*In that case any car isn't worthwhile, since the cost of insurance per year could pay for 1,000 miles worth of rentals.

[jimisnowhere]

School bus (of the short variety) or ex-military Blazer. Noone wants a used school bus = no resale value. And straight grease won't gel in your area so you won't need to convert it to bio diesel. I've been toying with the idea of a grease burning car but I really don't need a car.


jim

[I-Like-To-Bike]

What the hell kind of question is that?

I'm just trying to use a sustainable fuel for when I need to drive
Why not hire a couple of people to carry you and your cargo in a few rickshaws about town? It sounds just as practical, environmentally pure, and would be far cheaper and not require thousands of dollars of investment.

[BikeManDan]

Can a few nice gentlemen or ladies on rickshaws carry 20 bikes for me?

[I-Like-To-Bike]

Given that a small restaurant would love to enter a rendering contract where they don't have to pay to have their oil removed, and the waste oil stream is way larger than the supply of converted diesels,
How many gallons a day do you think are available to fuel up in any major city? Enough to support a dozen vehicles that never leave the tether of the limited supply?

[ericy]

You might look around for a used VW TDI. Try the biodiesel forum at www.tdiclub.com for various suggestions.

VW didn't make a TDI for the U.S. market in the 2007 model year - it has to do with new emissions standards and new cleaner fuels coming online, and this means that getting a TDI is harder for the time being. That plus California imposed stricter emissions standards earlier than the rest of the country - you would end up having to find a used TDI outside of California and then bringing it back home.

[I-Like-To-Bike]

Can a few nice gentlemen or ladies powering rickshaws about town carry 20 bikes for me?
Then hire 20 people to ride them. The sensible/economically sound solution most likely is to rent an appropriate vehicle when needed.

[BikeManDan]

Then hire 20 people to ride them. The sensible/economically sound solution most likely is to rent an appropriate vehicle when needed.
Right, get together 20 people at the drop of a hat to ride junked inoperable bikes. Thats not to mention the problem of getting these 20 people to the dump location (Oh hey, they could all drive there in separate SUVs!)

And rent a car also when I drive to LA? That would quickly balloon rental cost
Or are rickshaws going to take me there?

You seem to be staunchly anti-car. Cars have their place in this world

[lyeinyoureye]

How many gallons a day do you think are available to fuel up in any major city? Enough to support a dozen vehicles that never leave the tether of the limited supply?

A dozen vehicles per major city? Hardly. Maybe per small town... But that's it. Considering that less one percent (http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_future.html) of all new cars sold per year are diesels, those numbers tend to dwindle as that year's fleet ages, and not everyone, especially not those who have invested in a nice new car, would consider a conversion, I'm guessing there's more than enough WVO to go around. According to wikipedia, there's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straight_vegetable_oil#Availability) ~3 billion gallons of WVO produced per year. The larger places are getting cleaned out, and contracts are being signed, but for most smaller joints that average maybe ~5-50 gallons per week, they'll still have to pay a renderer to have it pumped out every two weeks or whatever. Fears about a rush on WVO (http://www.frybrid.com/forum/showpost.php?p=54545&postcount=21) are unfounded as of now, and probably will be in the future, since the small places a DIY'er would approach aren't going to be approached by the bigger businesses. it's just not worth for them to send trucks to all these little joints and pick up a few gallons every couple weeks unless they're being paid for it. Also, any average Joe who is interested in dealing with a larger supplier can offer services for free, or if it comes down to it, bid for the WVO. No matter what, it'll still be cheaper than petrodiesel or biodiesel offered from a large co.

In terms of range, that's why I suggested a VW Rabbit. They came with 10-15gallon tanks that provide ~500-750 miles of range stock. The well for the full sized spare has enough room for a ~55 gallon tank, or a ~35 gallon tank and a donut spare, which could easily provide ~1750-2000 miles of stock range. These vehicles also likely benefit from tire/gearing/aero upgrades, and maybe be able to reach ~70-100mpg cruising at ~55mph. So, supply isn't really a problem, especially if you get chummy w/ a business and supply them with a free, legal service that used to cost 'em, as well as save up for any long trips you may have. In fact, assuming you had some sort of green thumb, space, and the proper climate, Jatropha Curcas should be able to supply ~150-300 gallons of oil per acre per year. :p

[I-Like-To-Bike]

I'm guessing there's more than enough WVO to go around...
You are doing an awful lot of guessing, assuming and conjuring, especially about the economics and practicality of this scheme, unless the point would be to prove that it could be done, and costs were irrelevant.

Offer free legal advice to small restaurant owners for a couple gallons of fuel? What the heck is that about? What kind of legal advice? Certainly doesn’t seem worth much.

[wahoonc]

You are doing an awful lot of guessing, assuming and conjuring, especially about the economics and practicality of this scheme, unless the point would be to prove that it could be done, and costs were irrelevant.

Offer free legal advice to small restaurant owners for a couple gallons of fuel? What the heck is that about? What kind of legal advice? Certainly doesn’t seem worth much.

Depends on the size of the restaurant I guess. The local small chinese restaurant near me generates at least 15-25 gallons of WVO a week and there are probably 25 others with in a 30 mile radius (I live in fast food heaven:rolleyes: ) FWIW there is a guy down the road from me that has a old VW Rabbit diesel pickup that runs on WVO. He has been doing it for as long as I can remember, over 12 years. He has a poly tank that he slides in the back of his little PU to gather the oil in. I would guestimate it to be around 75-100 gallons. He has a normal route that he travels to pickup the WVO. At the time he started the restaurants were having to pay to have it picked up so they were tickled to have him come once a week and pick it up for free. As far as I know all he does it filter it to get the crunchies out and pours it in the tank. I do know that he has some type of tank heating system plumbed into the radiator system on the engine and he starts it on diesel. Last time I talked to him he was tickled to be able to find B-100 to supplant the DinoDiesel he had been using for the start up procedure. He said he uses about a gallon of diesel a month for warming up purposes. This guy is a serious backyard engineer and has built some really odd things, like a V-2 Chevette that got about 75 mpg. Bit of recluse so he isn't the most communicative person in the world.
If you are interested in the WVO/Bio angle go for it. It may or may not be cost feasible for you. FWIW we have looked at it as a possible fuel source for our tractors and trucks on a small scale, but passed for the time being mainly due to time constraints. I have friend in the coastal part of NC that runs his wifes VW TDI and his ancient Isuzu diesel pup on converted WVO and seems very happy with the whole process. He is also semi-retired and has the time to spend on it.


Aaron:)

[Roody]

What are you trying to prove?
Your usual inability to understand that sustainable transport is composed of many choices for people in many different circumstances.

You always assume that proposals must be practical for everybody, or they won't be workable. WVO, bicycles, walking, pedicabs--none are practical as transport for the masses, but each is practical for some people in some circumstances. It's up to the individual to determine which alternative will work for her or him.

This forum is one of the better places for sharing these ideas. If a thousand people read this thread, 998 will reject WVO. Maybe 2 will decide that it's a good plan for them in their circumstances. But I don't think either of them have to worry about running out of WVO. So let people do their thing, or you'll never have the last laugh.

[lyeinyoureye]

You are doing an awful lot of guessing, assuming and conjuring, especially about the economics and practicality of this scheme, unless the point would be to prove that it could be done, and costs were irrelevant.

Offer free legal advice to small restaurant owners for a couple gallons of fuel? What the heck is that about? What kind of legal advice? Certainly doesn’t seem worth much.

Wth are you talking about? The incentive for a small restaurant is having a service (waste oil collection) that used to cost $$ for free. Shmoozing and buying some food usually doesn't hurt either.

There are plenty of people who have converted, and even more who likely will. The fastest kit "payback" are those who have larger older vehicles, since mileage is relatively bad, and that's usually within ~15,000 miles. A DIY conversion can pay itself off much faster, and paying someone to do everything for you will take quite some time. For instance, if the OP buys a merc for $2,500, a kit for $2,000, and has other people work on the car, it'll take ~30,000 miles to pay off the cost of the conversion, and ~70-100k miles to pay off the cost of everything. Why don't you ask (http://www.frybrid.com/forum/index.php?) the users of commercial kits how irrelevant costs are? Or just search and read... :p

[I-Like-To-Bike]

If a thousand people read this thread, 998 will reject WVO. Maybe 2 will decide that it's a good plan for them in their circumstances. But I don't think either of them have to worry about running out of WVO. So let people do their thing, or you'll never have the last laugh.
I 'd be interested if even one person could be found (not in the WVO generation business) who actually runs a privately owned vehicle soley on WVO and can make a case for an economic rationale for investing the resources (time and money) necessary. I seriously doubt that any such person can be found.

[lyeinyoureye]

I 'd be interested if even one person could be found (not in the WVO generation business) who actually runs a privately owned vehicle soley on WVO and can make a case for an economic rationale for investing the resources (time and money) necessary. I seriously doubt that any such person can be found.

The best way to find out would be to ask someone who sells commercial kits. They (http://www.frybrid.com/forum/showpost.php?p=52919&postcount=10) seem to state otherwise, but you could always email them for more info. Or maybe ask to if anyone in your area has a conversion that's paid itself off and talk with the owner themselves. I suppose this is besides the point, since you probably already know WVO conversions are viable for some since nearly everything is viable for some small segment, or else it wouldn't be in use... Which begs the question, what do you want to catch fisherman?

[I-Like-To-Bike]

The best way to find out would be to ask someone who sells commercial kits.
Not really; the salesmen/promoters of a product are not necessarily the best references. I'd be interested in hearing the testimonial and rationale from satisfied user(s) of the product.

[I-Like-To-Bike]

since you probably already know WVO conversions are viable for some since nearly everything is viable for some small segment, or else it wouldn't be in use...
Real tiny market; think Segway - Another technological "solution" with almost no practical/economical consumer application.

[lyeinyoureye]

Real tiny market; think Segway - Another technological "solution" with almost no practical/economical consumer application.

VO, technological? Oil based biofuels have been around since god knows when, and used in various applications. I suppose the market's small because most people are lazy... But then again, that's not exactly a bad thing for those who want to get into it. :p

As for practicality, it's a bloody waste stream... We could use it to make electricity and power lights at a strip club and it'd still be more practical than simply dumping it. Of course, if you don't consider it to be practical, that's your own business. But that doesn't change the fact that it has, and probably will, save plenty of people, plenty of money, while reducing GHG emissions to below what your rear end, or in the case of this thread, other orifices produce/s... :D

since you probably already know WVO conversions are viable for some since nearly everything is viable for some small segment, or else it wouldn't be in use...
Not really; the salesmen/promoters of a product are not necessarily the best references. I'd be interested in hearing the testimonial and rationale from satisfied user(s) of the product.
Reading Rainow! ;)
Or maybe ask to if anyone in your area has a conversion that's paid itself off and talk with the owner themselves.

[bhtooefr]

I'm personally not a fan of using straight vegetable oil in any diesel engine that isn't specifically designed for it, although it's acceptable in indirect injection engines (such as the old Mercedes and VWs, although the injection pumps in the VWs are somewhat weak.)

I am, however, a supporter of biodiesel. (I do not make my own, but when I can afford it, I get 20% commercial biodiesel made from virgin soy oil.)

For the record, just to make sure everyone's on the same page:

Straight vegetable oil: unprocessed (if waste, filtered and dewatered) vegetable oil
Biodiesel: vegetable oil that has been "transesterified" - the glycerol backbone stripped off the molecule, and methanol (or ethanol, but usually methanol) molecules put in its place

For the car itself... if you're going to be towing much of anything, stick with the Mercedes. Optimally, get a 300TD - that's the wagon, and that'll have more space, too. Automatic transmission, though. *ick*

And, I'll second the suggestion to read http://tdiclub.com. While it's more oriented towards the 1996+ diesels, there's lots of good info on the older diesels there, too.

I do think that biodiesel isn't the silver bullet, but it's one of many silver bullets. (I'm going to load another one into my magazine, soon... and that'll be bicycling - the reason why I'm on this forum. Drive part way, bike the rest of the way.)

[Treespeed]

Well I know they run the busses here on campus on Biodiesel. Not many cars leave the tether of their city very often, aren't most commutes under 20 miles in a city. I think ILTB needs to check up on Biodiesel and WVO cars, this segment is definitely growing. Sure it's a small market niche, but every bit helps.

[bhtooefr]

Also, when running on biodiesel, there's nothing stopping you from filling up with "dinodiesel" (that's what we call it on the diesel forums) if you need to.

I can switch at will, unlike those running E85 (the ECUs in the "flex-fuel" cars have trouble compensating for a blend of E85 and regular, and they suggest switching as little as possible.)

As for veggie, the main concern (if you ignore concerns about weak fuel pumps, and direct injection systems having problems with the unprocessed fuel coking on the injector tip) is that (unless you have an Elsbett system) you have to run one tank of dinodiesel or biodiesel, one tank of veggie. Then you have to start up and shut down on your dino/biodiesel tank, or the veggie will get in the fuel lines, and it's too thick to start up on until it's heated.

[old and new]

So,I'll conclude that with all the imfo. here,with all of you experts,the OP will take all the data and focus it into a conclusion..NOT. He should rent a Isuzu or GMC diesel cab-over for half -day,load it with bikes once a month.It SO appears to me that his intent is NOT to spend thousands on a truck or car to go to the dump in,is he ? A few have "corrected" my earlier posts and those of others concerning expence of diesels ;they are NOT cheap.To convert a diesal to Bio is not easy,by the way,an injection pump is way OVER a thousand,if needed.NO you can't get 'em on e-bay!!!! One poster said a about a MB diesel for $3,00,please,even if you can find one cheap,how many bikes will it hold ?...five ..six, c'mon let's be practical.Conservation starts with being practical ,efficient and enviormentally friendly (not mentally compromised).Instead of posters taking an adversarial possition with fellow members just to argue,read the post,read inbetween the lines.Answer the issue instead of trying to negate what others say based on hypothetically low prices and non-availabilty.Leave bio-deisals to programed users,in a net-work if you will,a town,a fleet,vehicals correctly dedicated to this fuel,it's still so experimental.Don't believe me,get the advice of a different person with thirty years of deisal experience.Diesals aren't for everyone,they're not like bikes.

[kf5nd]

when I-Like-To-Bike posts, just ignore him. He's got problems.

[BikeManDan]

So,I'll conclude that with all the imfo. here,with all of you experts,the OP will take all the data and focus it into a conclusion..NOT. He should rent a Isuzu or GMC diesel cab-over for half -day,load it with bikes once a month.It SO appears to me that his intent is NOT to spend thousands on a truck or car to go to the dump in,is he ? A few have "corrected" my earlier posts and those of others concerning expence of diesels ;they are NOT cheap.To convert a diesal to Bio is not easy,by the way,an injection pump is way OVER a thousand,if needed.NO you can't get 'em on e-bay!!!! One poster said a about a MB diesel for $3,00,please,even if you can find one cheap,how many bikes will it hold ?...five ..six, c'mon let's be practical.Conservation starts with being practical ,efficient and enviormentally friendly (not mentally compromised).Instead of posters taking an adversarial possition with fellow members just to argue,read the post,read inbetween the lines.Answer the issue instead of trying to negate what others say based on hypothetically low prices and non-availabilty.Leave bio-deisals to programed users,in a net-work if you will,a town,a fleet,vehicals correctly dedicated to this fuel,it's still so experimental.Don't believe me,get the advice of a different person with thirty years of deisal experience.Diesals aren't for everyone,they're not like bikes.
Look, heres the deal:

I own a car right now, I'm car-lite. I use a car for long distances, emergencies and carrying large items (furniture). I would be replacing my current gas car with a diesel vehicle.

Mercedes diesels in this area go for $1000 to $3500. I have found several decent ones for around $2000. I will install a hitch receiver on the car, $50, and get a light trailer, $100 from Craigslist. This setup will hold at least a dozen bikes

[old and new]

OK dwoloz,sounds more well-founded,I'd recomend that you check-out the particulars concerning:buying, having the veh.fitted with th bio aparatus as a matter of course.California is a proggressive,pro-active state so getting fuel may not be a problem. It's admireable that you want to turn more than one negative into a positive.If you go with the Benz,you'll get many years of parts selection to draw upon and much interchangeability.I'll admit: a diesel may suit you,along with this project at hand,you've done "homework"

[bhtooefr]

Biodiesel apparatuses are not part of the vehicle.

Vegetable oil apparatuses are.

The two are NOT the same.

[Rev.Chuck]

The well for the full sized spare has enough room for a ~55 gallon tank, or a ~35 gallon tank and a donut spare, which could easily provide

This is WAY incorrect. I have a mk1 Scirocco(Same size tire well as the Rabbit) If you put a 55 gal tank, the dia of the tire well, in the Rabbit it would touch the roof(At the least). You could maybe fit a ten or twelve gallon cell in the well and there would be no room for a spare.

Another note, someone(seemed) to mention running unprocessed waste oil, as a blend, not a good idea. It is hard on the pump and injectors.

Processing waste oil uses some nasty stuff and you end up with some byproduct that will require disposal in something other than your sink. There is an article in MAKE, can't remember which one on making your own. There is another article on electric conversions in a later issue.

Doing blends is the most practical solution.

[cerewa]

An acquantance of mine says she runs a Mercedes diesel car, unmodified, on straight waste-vegetable-oil for the warmest months (6 months, I think) of the year. The rest of the year she uses biodiesel or petrodiesel.