Touring - What racks/panniers do you use?

Are there any that are head and shoulders above the rest? They have to be able to accomadate long distance self-sustained touring.

Also, what do you do with your bike at night to protect it from dew and rust?

As far as panniers check out the arkel website. www.arkel-od.com They make great panniers that attach very well to the bike and are very durable. They are heads and shoulders above the panniers that were available at the bike shops I went too but I know there are other makers with great reputations. Ortlieb is another you might want to check out.

I choose Arkel becuase they were a small company where everything was hand made and inspected. They have many bags to choose from and you can order right from their website.

Steve

I use Tubus (tubus.com) racks and Ortlieb Paniers (front and rear). I am most satisfied with both brands. Little spendy, but very good and should last forever.

I just bought Arkel T42 panniers for commuting. I have nothing else to compare them with but, so far, I am impressed. However, when I read about people's packing lists for touring, I am not sure where they put all the stuff because my one pannier is absolutely filled with my commuting gear.

Others have given you the two most highly regarded pannier makers depending on whether you prioritize waterproofness or thoughtful design and useful compartments should dictate which of those you would want to go with.As for the dew/rust I had some problems with that as Ihave an older scratched up bike and I started using my ground cloth/pauncho to cover it (makes good camoflauge as well).A good multi use item to take along.

Arkel bags, TT84's with a large Jhannd rack, to small Cannondale bags on an under seat rack, our bike is a Rans Screamer. The Cannondale bags will soon be replaced with a set of Arkels. And when the rack brakes, not if... when it will be replaced with a Tubus rack.

I touch up paint damage when I find it. I also use frame saver inside the frame to protect the bare steel in the tubes. And cover the seats with plastic, the Screamer seats are made with a 4" foam pad, once it gets wet, it stays wet.

I use a tarpoulin cover at night to cover my bike to keep dew, rain etc off it. It's lightweight to carry, I can fix it in place with a couple of spare tent pegs, and it's effective in keeping rain off.

Hi,
I use this really light Tubus rack that weighs about half what most racks weigh. It was expensive, but quite possibly the single largest weight reduction
I have made (excluding the titanium frame). I think it looks cool, too.

http://www.lickbike.com/i3590100.htm

Looks better on a bike than it does in the pic.

That Tubus Fly is very light and strong, but designed for weekend hostel touring. For camping, use one of their full-duty racks.
The only rack that may be better is
http://www.bgcycles.com/racks.html

I've used a blackburn rack and Karrimor Panniers for the last 20 years. The pannier I use for commuting is a bit worse for wear, but it's been down the road (literally) several times.

I will swap to Tubus racks when I can justify the expense. My wife has them on the Roberts (colour coded of course) and they are v light and strong.

Blackburn racks and Arkel panniers. :thumbup:

Glad to see Arkel is becoming more widely known.

Arkel panniers and Jannd Expedition rack. No complaints with either.

On the Touring List (http://www.bikelist.org), the recommendations go for the following.

Racks

Tubus Cargo is the strongest commercial rear rack available. For the front, I'm not sure if it's the Tubus Duo or Tubus Tara that has better marks, but I would prefer the Tara because it has a hoop linking both sides.

In the "semi-custom" area, Bruce Gordon (http://www.bgcycles.com)'s racks are really hard to beat and everyone who has them considers them rock solid.

In the more affordable category, the Blackburn Expedition II (EX-II) and LowRider were great products that, alas, disappeared when Bell Sports restructured 1 year ago. The EX-II is identical to the EX-I, but with additional bracing at the rear. I recently saw a couple of models by Topeak that look interesting, but no experience with them.

BTW, on my touring bike, I have a Blackburn Lowrider in front and the steel rack that comes with the Burley Piccolo trailercycle on the rear (rock solid). My commuter has the EX-II on the rear and even though it's a bit more flexible than Burley's rack, I'm more limited by the flexibility of the frame itself.

For racks, if you travel in remote places, steel is easier to weld on the road. But unless you crash or try to carry a car, I think that the welds of an aluminum rack will either fail very early... or never. IOW, do a few shakedown trips with your equipment.


Panniers

Two main contenders are Arkel (http://www.panniers.com) and Ortlieb (http://www.ortliebusa.com).
Both have a different philosophy, with Arkel proclaiming that panniers should have non-waterproof fabric so things can dry out, while Ortlieb proclaims that they should be waterproof. But both hook fairly easily, are secure and are very resistant.

Some have complained of pinholes in their Ortliebs (due to human
error?), many have complained that you can't stuff cold food (condensation) or wet clothes (everything gets soggy), while many also praise their waterproofness.

Arkel's touring bags are side-loading, which means a few more pockets and easier access to stuff.

I have Arkel's GT-54 rear panniers and T-42 panniers that I use in front while touring or behind for commuting. And after 4-5 years (approx.) of daily use for commuting, I can attest of the ruggedness of the T-42.

Regards,

I am making my own panniers (bags). Don't feel like spending hundreeds of dollars for material that costs only coupple...
As front racks appear to be expensive too (50$ and up), probably will try to make my own front rack... tubes, clamps, bolts... :D drill, cut, grind...

If you are home-building bags, check out the design of Carradice Super-C. It is one of the lightest, strongest, and most durable bags out there. Some have been in regular use for decades. The cut is very simple, the material is tough canvas, not nylon, the stiffening is light, strong corrugated plastic, and the mounting system is easy to fit.
I would suggest using their rivetted Al extruded rail, then just slide on some standard Rixen and Kaul pannier hooks.

I use Carradice Super C with the SQR seatpost bracket.

I have a bracket on each of my 2 bikes so swapping the bag from bike to bike is easy.

The bag is big (16 litres??) but easy & quick to attach & remove so it doesn't have to stay outside on the bike when I go in to any shop/cafe etc.

Crradice make a pile of other bags, all compatible with the SQR bracket, so I also have a small bag I use on short trips when I don't need to carry a pile of spares & clothing

Stew

Originally posted by mgagnonlv
Both have a different philosophy, with Arkel proclaiming that panniers should have non-waterproof fabric so things can dry out, while Ortlieb proclaims that they should be waterproof. I don't think this is accurate regarding the Arkel. From their site:


We use only the best North American Cordura® made out of thousands of microscopic fibers interlocked in an incredibly strong canvas, coated with polyurethane waterproofing.

This is one of the many factors I looked into before I bought my Arkel's.

Jandd for the back rack, and I have some generic unknowns I picked up in Italy for the front. They are trapezoid shaped, and they do the job, but beyond that, I'm not sure who makes them.

I took my racks off to ship my bike a couple of weeks ago, and now that I'm home, I'm wondering if I want to bother putting on new ones. I kinda like how light I've gotten since I don't have the racks on to drag around all that extra weight.

How does the Arkel cordura stand up to severe abrasion. Ive come off my bike twice , and both times the carradice canvas bags took the brunt of the force, scraping along the ground. My rear panniers took a 5m slide downhill and emerged a bit scuffed with a small hole in the corner. My bar bag took a slide on the tarmac and had some surface /cosmetic damage.
My experience of sythetics is that with severe abrasion, they melt.

Originally posted by MichaelW
How does the Arkel cordura stand up to severe abrasion. Sorry Michael, but I've managed to stay upright :D , so I can't attest to their abrasion qualities.

The coating on the Arkel will stand to some light right but not a sutained rain or heavy downpour. The coating wears off after some time also. I agree with the philosophy of having something breathable. If you use perfectly watertight fabric, there's going to be a micro-climate building inside your panniers and your stuff will get wet anyway, but worse, it will stay wet.

I have used Jandd packs and racks front and rear for years. I feel that they're a great design/value and I have no complaints. I prefer their somewhat breathe-able material and I just line the bags with trash compactor bags when absolute waterproofness is desired.

Probably the finest bags and racks are built by Robert Beckman at Beckman Designs. Certainly they can be the priciest, depending on the model you decide on! Unfortunately, with bags and racks, you definitely "get what you pay for" and nothing more.

Try http://www.coinet.com/~beckman/index.html or "Sakkit Bicycles" in your search engine to get to his website.

If you order his info pack, be ready for some hard-core reading - He sends a LOT of info!!! Also, he builds some AWESOME touring bikes!!

Best of luck,

JP

Nobody using Madden Buzzards? Is there something I dont know about 'em? I like how huge they can grow if needed. I also have a pair of Performance TransIt Pros to alternate between front an back.

I use the Arkel GT series, front and back.

My racks are Jandd Expedition.

Racks: Hard-core tourers don't like aluminum racks, but I think the Jandd are fine for on-road touring. Some people complain that they flex too much compared to thicker, steel racks. I don't think they do. If you pack properly, have the hardware tightened down, and have a good set of rigid panniers the rack won't wobble unduly. You can stand and climb and descend at speed safely and comfortably with a full load. All that for $80 or whatever they were.

If I were doing a tour for months, or going off-road, or something, I'd upgrade. For multi-day tours on roads more or less in civilization, though, the Jandd are fine.

The main benefit in civilization is that the Jandd have whole shelves front and rear, too. You can get away without full fenders with these racks. All I add is a small plastic mtb fender on the downtube for the front wheel. A definite advantage.

Panniers: I'm very happy with the Arkel. The arrangements of pockets make things very convenient on tour. This saves a lot of time in and out of camp.

The coolest things are the pocket that holds tent stakes and a thermarest, the fuel bottle pocket, and the detachable shower kit.

Everything can go in the panniers when I tour, except perhaps for a small sleeping bag up top.

The panniers are also very tough. They can carry a ton. The zippers always work, even when you're pulling them closed around a lot of clothes or something. I've put a lot of use into mine and they're still in top-top shape.

The mounting hardware is very simple, but very sturdy. I don't believe anything else would be needed, even for an off-road tour. Just make sure the center nut for the wing clip is tightened and the hardware will keep the pack rigid all the time.

The panniers are water resistant. If you left them in the shower for a while I think they would eventually saturate and get what's inside wet. In rain the water rolls off.

I suppose the water resistance will eventually wear off. Mine hasn't yet. When it does, I'll buy some more and spray it on.

I've also got the rain covers for the panniers. I put those on whenever it's even misting. I've never had anything get wet inside the panniers.

The Arkel dry quickly, too. You don't get mildew or anything else inside the bags, either. I prefer this whole arrangement to a sealed set like the Ortleibs or something.

Some remarks about water resistance, too. Unless you're in a tropical downpour or something you don't need all that much water resistance. Even a crappy old backpack with the Scotchguard worn off will provide pretty good protection for items inside in the rain. Some papers will get damp, but nothing will get soaked. Obviously you want water resistance but even sub-par protection is not an emergency, like dropping the bag into a lake or something.

Thanks for the link to the Beckman stuff. All of it looks very cool. Anyone ever seen any of these bikes?

People say that the BG panniers are better than Arkel, and some of the testimonials on the Beckman site claim that his users think the Beckmans are better still. I don't know. I've never seen either in person. I can say that the Arkel are terrific. I'm planning on using mine for long tours and errands for years and years. What else could you ask for?

I use Thorn Expedition rack (very good, very expensive) and ortelieb panniers

Here is Thorn's text on the subject of carriers


http://www.sjscycles.com/thornbrochure.asp

26" Wheel Solo Cycle Brochure

Carriers

When carrying loads, choosing the correct carrier for your requirements is as fundamental to your cycling experience as choosing the correct cycle ... A lightweight cycle purchased for fast touring day rides carrying light loads will be overweight with an “expedition suitable” carrier.

An even worse, but quite common, scenario is the heavily laden cycle with a flimsy carrier. NO MATTER HOW WELL DESIGNED AND BUILT THE CYCLE MAY BE, WITHOUT A PROPER CARRIER A HEAVY LOAD WILL MAKE IT FEEL HORRIBLE.

There are 5 materials commonly used in the manufacture of carriers :-

1. High quality tubular aluminium. This is very light, not very rigid and fails easily (we returned a huge percentage to Cannondale). This material builds into a carrier that is neither of use nor ornament!
2. Aerospace aluminium rod. This is fairly light, fairly stiff and lasts well with moderate loads and smooth roads. Blackburn carriers have a good reputation and an excellent guarantee. However when you are stuck in the back end of nowhere and nobody can weld aluminium without the specialist equipment and skills needed, then the guarantee is not going to help.
Blackburn carriers can and do fail when heavily loaded and used for extended tours on rough roads ... Most people are not going to use them hard enough to experience problems.
3. Aluminium rod. This is fairly light and is ok if very little weight is to be carried. It is much less stiff and even more prone to failure than aircraft-grade aluminium ... Not for serious applications.
4. Steel rod. This is very heavy and not very stiff. Lots of bracing has to be used to get sufficient stiffness, resulting in even more weight. It would have no application in the manufacture of carriers, except that it is easy to repair. Any small (Third World) village will have a blacksmith who can repair such a carrier.
5. Tubular steel. This is light, very stiff, comparatively easy to work with and can be repaired relatively easily. This is THE material for cycle carriers (as it is for cycles!). Tubular cro-mo is even better ... fine gauge Reynolds “531” is best of all! (ask Alex Moulton).

Thorn carriers.
When we decided to make carriers we knew it would be foolish to use anything but the best! - and we decided to make them in the best way possible! We use straight tubes and join them with our own high quality, malleable steel lugs using low temperature braze ... if the correct carrier is chosen we don’t think they’ll break ... but if they do, they can be repaired.
If your touring bike suddenly can’t carry all your kit then, at best, your cycle touring holiday is over!

We have some nice design features. Andy Blance has been “messing around” with carriers for several years. Up until now he has been unable to design anything that cost less to make than it could be sold for! He now has extensive knowledge about carriers due to this process.

Our rear carriers have two exclusive (we think) design features (we don’t count the ability to reliably carry the stated load as a feature!) :-

1. We braze a 6mm boss “halfway” up the back of each rear carrier stay. These are used to attach the mudguard stays, saving (50g) weight, increasing stiffness and reducing clutter at the same time.

2. We braze two 5mm bosses at the rear of the carrier load platform. These have 90mm centres and alloy plates can be purchased to allow the fitting of one or two rear LED lights. We use a plate because every year or two a much better light comes onto the market (currently we like the new 300% brighter Vista Lite Nebula rear LED light the best) and it is more sensible to buy a new plate than buy a new carrier!

We list several carriers in our “options”. This is our opinion of them :-

Blackburn EX1 Expedition (692g)
This is pretty stiff, it has to be said, but it does carry the load too high for 26” wheels (or 700Cs come to that!). We recommend a new one after each “expedition”. Blackburn suggest a load limit of 18kg.

Blackburn MTN (621g)
Again fairly stiff and carries the weight nice and low ... it also weighs a bit less than the EX1 Expedition. Blackburn quote a load limit of 9kg (we’ve used the MTN with a 15kg load and it feels secure).

Blackburn Custom Lowrider
Lowriders need to be very adjustable ... Blackburn has ignored the fact that a pivot around a fixed point describes an arc - not a straight line! The ‘P’ clips will slip if rough roads are attempted.

Rear carriers.

Thorn “531” adjustable standard rear carrier (684g). This uses 9.5mm, 0.9mm thick “531” material. This carrier weighs less than a Blackburn EX1 Expedition and is as least as stiff whilst being repairable. This carrier has been tested on rough gravel mountain roads and is fine with up to 15kg. Ideal capacity up to 15kg - max : 25kg.

Thorn adjustable reinforced rear carrier (794g). This again uses 9.5mm, 0.9mm thick “531” material. The reinforcement makes the carrier exceptionally rigid and we would prefer to use it ourselves when the load was regularly expected to exceed 18kg. Ideal capacity up to 25kg - max : 35kg.

Thorn ultra-light “531” adjustable rear carrier with “cut to fit” stainless steel stays (weight: 310 to 350g). This is designed to carry a rack pack or a small pair of panniers. Total load must not exceed 6kg... the ultra-light should appeal to Audax riders.

Front lo loaders.

We are delighted with our design as it is impossible for our carriers to slip round - a problem with Blackburn and copies.
The “open” design at the rear not only allows the angle to be reset, should your forks not have been accurately built, but also
allows quality forks to absorb road shock. Our design also allows modern panniers with large plastic mountings to be fitted.
You should note that the MK IV only accepts modern panniers with anti sway side mounting and is designed for 4kg per side.
Our MK III heavy duty model will carry any weight you could wish to place on your bicycles forks!
MKIV Ultra lightweight lo loader - weight: 415g, capacity per side: 4kg
MKIII Heavy-duty lo loader - weight: 645g

Thorn Mid Loaders

Thorn “531” Mid-loader - Thorn designer, Andy B, developed these front carriers to be an improvement over existing items. He is confident that he has achieved this in several different areas... The carriers weigh 150g less than the Thorn reinforced lo-loaders. These carriers hold the bags 50mm (2”) higher off the ground than lo-loader designs… this is useful (particularly with 26” wheels) in town, when in close proximity to moderately high kerbs, when on unsealed roads and it is especially useful when off road. The mid-loaders also carry the weight further behind the centre of steering… this gives exceptional stability and completely removes any tendency of the front wheel to “flop”. With this carrier fitted, the front wheel can be removed from the dropouts as easily as if there were no carrier fitted. The greatest benefit is perhaps, that the method of attaching the carriers leaves the bend of the fork as free to flex as it would be without the carriers… thus providing much more comfort over rough terrain than conventional lo-loaders.
PLEASE NOTE: Thorn mid-loaders are unlikely to fit any other make of cycle, indeed they are only sold as being suitable for all Thorn bikes, provided with lo-loader bosses, purchased from April 2003 onwards.
The mid-loaders are only compatible with front bags which are fitted with (modern) anti-sway devices… Carradice, Ortlieb etc.
These revolutionary carriers have been extensively tested, with full touring loads (up to 8kg per side) over some of the roughest gravel roads in the world… they performed superbly, in fact as well as Andy could have dreamed of, he is now happy to offer them to you, the discerning cyclist.


Thorn "531" adjustable Standard rear carrier



Thorn "531" adjustable reinforced rear carrier



Thorn “531” adjustable ultra-light rear carrier



Thorn “531” Mid loader



Thorn Single LED bracket



Thorn "531" MKIII Heavy duty lo loader



Thorn "531" MKIV Ultra lightweight lo loader




<- Back Next ->


Thorn Cycles Ltd, 91-93 St John Street, Bridgwater, Somerset, TA6 5HX, England
Company no: 4121096, incorporated in England


Questions - Email us on sales@sjscycles.com
Telephone +44 (0) 1278 441500
Fax +44 (0) 1278 431107

Blackburn or Karrimor racks, Carradice bags. I have been rotating 2 pairs for 20 years and lending them out to friends. Each of the panniers is now fashionably faded but otherwise serviceable. The design of the bags is simple- one main compartment, one small rear pocket. Less is more.

eric

Making your own may seem honourable but just make sure you test ride beforehand. And Severely. Aint nothing cock up a good tour than your own self-made things going phut.;)

Most of the brands quoted here have been pro quality the serious sort of **** you need if you live on a bike every holiday. But Blackburn racks and bags are pretty good and since they're so international if you buy them in NZ, say, and they, say, break on the plane going over to Hong Kong, say, the shop in Hon Kong will replace 'em. I know 'cause it happened to me.

Originally posted by monkeywench
Blackburn racks and Arkel panniers. :thumbup:


Blackburn?
Bought front middle wheel positions rack yesterday. It's a blackburn, but the box has a date of August 1983...
Hey, it's only 39 bucks :D

Re: panniers. I have a pair of small ones for the front made by Arkel and two pairs of larger ones for the back, both made by Halti. One of my rear pairs (aptly named "Aqua") is the "sealed" kind of design, similar to Ortlieb's. It is totally waterproof, you can throw it in a lake if you suddenly develop an urge to do that. Sealed panniers are quite popular with people who cycle and paddle, as you can ride your bike to the water, throw your bags in the kayak and continue without having to re-pack everything. Same can be achieved with breathable panniers if you pack everything in plastic bags first. Using rain cover alone will not do the trick.

As mentioned by others above, sealed panniers do have a problem with wet / moist content. For a long tour in summer I would probably take the breathable pair. For combined paddling trips or commuting the sealed design is great.

--J

Originally posted by Inoplanetyanin
Blackburn?
Bought front middle wheel positions rack yesterday. It's a blackburn, but the box has a date of August 1983...
Hey, it's only 39 bucks :D

I've had my rear Blackburn since before '83 and it's still going strong.

I use a set of http://www.oldmanmountain.com/Images/CS_rear_rk_page.gif cold spring by Oldmanmountain (http://www.oldmanmountain.com/rear_rack_page.htm). they're purdy shweet, eh. I 'tour'/trail ride on a Titanium mountain bike with a four inch suspention fork. They mount (http://www.oldmanmountain.com/Images/cs_front_diagram.jpg) onto the hub and brake bosses. The rear is simmiler, as I have no eyelets. 6 1/2 inches wide with 9mm tubes, they are hell ya strong.

for pannier I use a set of serratus

I am using Tubus racks and red Arkel GT-30's and 54's on a Trek 520.

I regret to some degree the choice now, thinking that I will on shorter tours and in the future doff the rear panniers and stick things on top of my rear rack to reduce wind resistance. I saw that configuration on the bike of a die-hard tourer, and it seems to make a lot of sense. You shed weight from the rear panniers, and, of course, you have to pack lighter.

For now, however, what I have will have to do. It's just something to think about.

:)

Originally posted by Chris L
I use a tarpoulin cover at night to cover my bike to keep dew, rain etc off it.

Covering a bike will not prevent from dew, which is a water that condensates from cooler night air on warm bicycle (;)), just like out of fridge coke... ;)

To answer the question:

I have a 6x6 tarp to possibly cover the bike from heavy rain and I have some heavy duty regular backpacks which I hope to use as rear panniers.

Originally posted by arijane
I am using Tubus racks and red Arkel GT-30's and 54's on a Trek 520.

I regret to some degree the choice now, thinking that I will on shorter tours and in the future doff the rear panniers and stick things on top of my rear rack to reduce wind resistance. I saw that configuration on the bike of a die-hard tourer, and it seems to make a lot of sense. You shed weight from the rear panniers, and, of course, you have to pack lighter.

For now, however, what I have will have to do. It's just something to think about.

:)

For shorter rides, you might use the GT-30 by themselves on the rear rack. They are not much wider than your legs, so they don't add much air resistance. Use a single bag if all things fit in one.

i bought vaude front paniers, they are fully water proof, they dont have zippers but have that Immersion Proof Roll Closure system like compression bags if you know what i mean.

http://www.gearshift.co.uk/acatalog/TransAlpPlusTRANSgif.htm
(i have the red one for the front)

Arkel panniers, T42 I think. I use them daily for commuting as well, and yes they will leak during a sustained or heavy rain. Voila, le heavy duty laundry or garbage bag liner. When I bought mine in 2001, they were available in either top or side-loading versions. Mine are excellent, no complaints

Rear rack is factory Trek for the 520, I have read some bad things about it, no problems so far, but I have not done any sustained long distance tours yet. Nothing for the front so far but will likely move my T42s up front and buy T54s (?) for the back. Rack?