He was coming home from a concert at the Woodruff Arts Center. He was walking home from the bus stop in the dark. Three young men pointed a gun at him and took everything but his cellphone. Somehow they missed that.
He called me and I drove the 3/4 mile to pick him up. He was shaking. I had already called the police, but I told him to call them again to give them more specific information. I had to take the phone from him and talk, he was too shaken. They sent two officers to our door.
Turns out the young men my son described had just been identified in a carjacking.
I'm not sure if there is any forum where this fits. But since I know people on this website, I thought I'd post this incident, and this is the only forum dealing with "safety."
My son was shaken severely, and if he had been a lot younger, he would have been crying (started to, and he's a grown man.) Fortunately, he had no cash, only his I-pod, a school book, and basic I.D. (which they took.) I guess they didn't know he wasn't carrying anything else of value.
He kept telling me how foolish he felt "groveling" to them. But when the police showed up, after they found out the same perps had carjacked someone, the officer asking the questions started shaking a little bit, too. A bit of adrenaline, I guess...
Take care.
ollo_ollo
04-27-07, 11:39 PM
Glad your son wasn't hurt.
LittleBigMan
04-27-07, 11:46 PM
Glad your son wasn't hurt.
I really appreciate it, Ollo_ollo.
....
0_emissions :=)
04-28-07, 12:19 AM
About an hour ago, my son was robbed at gunpoint.
He was coming home from a concert at the Woodruff Arts Center. He was walking home from the bus stop in the dark. Three young men pointed a gun at him and took everything but his cellphone. Somehow they missed that.
He called me and I drove the 3/4 mile to pick him up. He was shaking. I had already called the police, but I told him to call them again to give them more specific information. I had to take the phone from him and talk, he was too shaken. They sent two officers to our door.
Turns out the young men my son described had just been identified in a carjacking.
I'm not sure if there is any forum where this fits. But since I know people on this website, I thought I'd post this incident, and this is the only forum dealing with "safety."
My son was shaken severely, and if he had been a lot younger, he would have been crying (started to, and he's a grown man.) Fortunately, he had no cash, only his I-pod, a school book, and basic I.D. (which they took.) I guess they didn't know he wasn't carrying anything else of value.
He kept telling me how foolish he felt "groveling" to them. But when the police showed up, after they found out the same perps had carjacked someone, the officer asking the questions started shaking a little bit, too. A bit of adrenaline, I guess...
Take care.
Honestly when you think about it, having a weapon that can snuff out your life will make you very shaky. I had a gun pointed in my face at a party about 10 years ago, and I almost cried. It seriously scares the sh*t out of you. Glad to hear the boy is okay. Hope the boys find 'em too, give them a nice hard cell to live in for awhile.
CommuterRun
04-28-07, 03:21 AM
Glad your son wasn't hurt and the perps got caught.
A very stressful situation. His reaction was perfectly normal. It may help him to stay involved with the prosecution of the perps, or at least attend the trial.
I-Like-To-Bike
04-28-07, 04:01 AM
He kept telling me how foolish he felt "groveling" to them.
You should let your son know he wasn't being foolish at all but was being sensible and smart. He didn't have any pleasant choices but he made the best one under the circumstances. Congratulate him on having the smarts and courage to do the right thing and be glad you still have your son intact. Ipods and IDs can be replaced. Loved ones cannot.
sgtsmile
04-28-07, 07:04 AM
You should let your son know he wasn't being foolish at all but was being sensible and smart. He didn't have any pleasant choices but he made the best one under the circumstances. Congratulate him on having the smarts and courage to do the right thing and be glad you still have your son intact. Ipods and IDs can be replaced. Loved ones cannot.
What I was going to say, exactly.
Glad your son is ok.
slvoid
04-28-07, 07:20 AM
Jack bauer, your son is not. The best thing to do, from a legal standpoint, is to give em what they want. I'm not sure if your area allows you to use deadly force to protect property or dignity.
I was robbed by 3 guys once. Unfortunately for them, there was a patrol car coming up the street about 10 seconds after they walked away with my phone and wallet. I flagged down the car, got in, one of the officers jumped out, the 3 split, a foot and vehicular chase ensued around the block, 5 minutes later, 7 patrol cars and like 20 officers showed up along with half the hasidic neighborhood surrounded the area and nabbed em. That'll teach em to stay the hell out of the area.
The cops said if I had a) my knife wasn't hanging from my belt, that it would've been a concealed weapon and b) if I somehow whipped it out, I probably would've taken down a few of them (none of them had weapons when they searched them), they would've been passing by in the patrol car just as I had finished them off with blood on my hands.
So I guess I got lucky, twice.
Perhaps its time to teach him to be aware of his surroundings. Never let someone get too close behind him.
Here's another funny story, back when I was a kid, a bigger kid tried to rob me, while I was fumbling in my pockets, I kept shifting my eyes to look over his shoulder making him think someone was coming up behind him and when he turned around, I kicked him behind the knees and bolted after I smacked him on the ear (probably like a sissy girl). I had a good 50ft lead and disappeared around the corner.
deputyjones
04-28-07, 09:01 AM
You should let your son know he wasn't being foolish at all but was being sensible and smart. He didn't have any pleasant choices but he made the best one under the circumstances. Congratulate him on having the smarts and courage to do the right thing and be glad you still have your son intact. Ipods and IDs can be replaced. Loved ones cannot.
+1, My personal motto is "be the best witness".
stevesurf
04-28-07, 09:28 AM
About an hour ago, my son was robbed at gunpoint.
He was coming home from a concert at the Woodruff Arts Center. He was walking home from the bus stop in the dark.So sorry to hear that; glad he did the right thing and submit, in that specific case.
Perhaps its time to teach him to be aware of his surroundings. Never let someone get too close behind him.The best advice ever.
One talented professional we know in the security industry teaches a self protection course called "The System of Strategy" where you just just don't enter a vulnerable situation unprepared, practice avoidance and act where possible and where it's the safe thing to do. I'm surprised at how many thiefs easily prey on our children and loved ones because they are unprepared and put themselves in vulnerable situations.
I am not saying to arm themselves, etc. as there are legal complications, but I do advocate education as to the different levels of a confrontation.
-=Łem in Pa=-
04-28-07, 09:35 AM
That is terrible, LBM.
I lose a little faith in humanity everytime I hear this stuff.
I know its cliche, but it is the truth......just be thankful the
most important thing of all wasnt taken, your Son.
My best wishes that he puts this behind him soon.
If you dont mind me asking, what part of the country are you in ??
rando
04-28-07, 10:02 AM
sorry, lbm. glad your son is OK. That would shake anybody up.
Doug5150
04-28-07, 11:00 AM
About an hour ago, my son was robbed at gunpoint.....
I'm glad your son wasn't hurt, but it's too bad all he could do was grovel.
Of course it is not possible to plan for every situation, but I am plainly resentful of laws that say I have to be defenseless and I generally don't follow them. Nothing ruins a criminal's day faster than an armed victim.
~
scottmorrison99
04-28-07, 06:48 PM
I'm glad your son wasn't hurt, but it's too bad all he could do was grovel.
Of course it is not possible to plan for every situation, but I am plainly resentful of laws that say I have to be defenseless and I generally don't follow them. Nothing ruins a criminal's day faster than an armed victim.
~
Going for your gun with a gun already pointed at you will get you dead. Can you clear the holster and aim faster than the robber can pull the trigger? Probably not. too much risk for ID and ipod. OP's son did the right thing in the situation. I'm with deputyjones, be a good witness...not a statistic.
Tom Stormcrowe
04-28-07, 07:12 PM
Agreed with Scott, and Deputy Jones. Better a live witness than a dead hero wannabe! I have close quarters combat training and I wouldn't have gone for a weapon even if I had one. Given he already had the pistol pointed at him, he did exactly the right thing and please tell him I said that.
dcon
04-28-07, 07:27 PM
It's easy to be a hard-ass hero when you're typing on a forum.
My best friend from college got robbed leaving a subway station in NY. She resisted the robber at first, so he grabbed her purse and then stabbed her in the side as he fled. She had to drag herself up the stairs to the street level while gushing blood all over the place. She made it to street level, got help, and made to a hospital where they began treating her for her collapsed lung, blood loss, shock, etc...
Your son did the right thing. He's alive and whole. Anyone who says differently can #$%^ right off.
solipsist
04-28-07, 07:31 PM
Glad to hear he gave up the goods and kept his skin. Atlanta isn't a particularly friendly town, sometimes. It is good that there was no physical violence involved, though the trauma of having your personal security invaded like that sure must feel just as important.
MrCjolsen
04-28-07, 08:52 PM
Nothing ruins a criminal's day faster than an armed victim.
~
Getting caught and ending up the b**tch of some 300 pound LWOP is sort of a drag too. And by the sound of it, the guys who robbed LBM's son just might be in that situation soon. I wonder how well they can grovel?
LittleBigMan
04-28-07, 09:10 PM
You should let your son know he wasn't being foolish at all but was being sensible and smart. He didn't have any pleasant choices but he made the best one under the circumstances. Congratulate him on having the smarts and courage to do the right thing and be glad you still have your son intact. Ipods and IDs can be replaced. Loved ones cannot.
Thank you so much, everyone!
Yes, ILTB, as I told him this afternoon (next day,) he wasn't hurt, but his mind was injured. If he got upset for no apparent reason at a friend, or got depressed, or emotional, he should go easy on himself, he's just reacting to the stress of his experience. I told him to give himself space to experience his feelings, within boundaries--he'd do the same for someone else.
sgtsmile
04-28-07, 09:31 PM
Methinks your son has a good dad....
Dahon.Steve
04-28-07, 10:13 PM
He was coming home from a concert at the Woodruff Arts Center. He was walking home from the bus stop in the dark. Three young men pointed a gun at him and took everything but his cellphone. Somehow they missed that
I'm glad your son is fine and all is well.
I used to live and frequently bike in bad neighborhoods even at night. Although I'm an advocate of public transportation, I refuse to wait for a bus at night anymore. I can't believe I used to do that in the past but not anymore because it leaves me vulnerable. I feel much safer on a bicycle in a bad neighborhood than waiting for a bus in the dead of night.
I rode today on an avenue that I would never walk. But on a bike, I can't be touched and those same punks just watch as I blast past them! It might be time to get your son a beater and make him a utility cyclist. I'm fairly certain, if he were on a beater, those guys would have looked for another target.
MrCjolsen
04-28-07, 11:44 PM
I'm glad your son is fine and all is well.
I used to live and frequently bike in bad neighborhoods even at night. Although I'm an advocate of public transportation, I refuse to wait for a bus at night anymore. I can't believe I used to do that in the past but not anymore because it leaves me vulnerable. I feel much safer on a bicycle in a bad neighborhood than waiting for a bus in the dead of night.
I rode today on an avenue that I would never walk. But on a bike, I can't be touched and those same punks just watch as I blast past them! It might be time to get your son a beater and make him a utility cyclist. I'm fairly certain, if he were on a beater, those guys would have looked for another target.
In some neighborhoods, I actually feel safer on a bike than in my car. The way I see it, if someone's going to risk an armed robbery conviction, they're more likely to do it for my automobile than for my bicycle. Carjackings are big around here. So is bike theft. But no one uses a gun for that.
I also don't need to cross a parking lot to get to my bike. I just wheel it to the door and go.
John C. Ratliff
04-29-07, 12:04 AM
LittleBigMan,
Thanks for sharing. I know these are difficult things to talk about, or think about. I'm very greatful that nothing lasting happened. The mental part of it will recover with time, so I would not worry too much about that. Do get some rest, and just let the whole thing sink in. It could have been so much worse...
John
funrover
04-29-07, 12:22 AM
I am glad to hear your son was okay!!!!
Doug5150
04-29-07, 04:31 AM
Going for your gun with a gun already pointed at you will get you dead. Can you clear the holster and aim faster than the robber can pull the trigger? Probably not. too much risk for ID and ipod. OP's son did the right thing in the situation. I'm with deputyjones, be a good witness...not a statistic.
Yea, totally surrendering is a great idea--a criminal will never shoot you anyway, even though you did what they wanted.
~
cyclezealot
04-29-07, 04:37 AM
I once had a knife pointed at the rear of my neck. They surprised me from behind. When , you are overtaken by someone who has an advantage, all you can do is co-operate. He did the right thing. The guy told me, you see me you are dead.
I-Like-To-Bike
04-29-07, 04:56 AM
I'm glad your son wasn't hurt, but it's too bad all he could do was grovel.
Of course it is not possible to plan for every situation, but I am plainly resentful of laws that say I have to be defenseless and I generally don't follow them. Nothing ruins a criminal's day faster than an armed victim.
~
Yea, totally surrendering is a great idea--a criminal will never shoot you anyway, even though you did what they wanted.
~
I suspect it is easier to draw down on a keyboard while facing a monitor, than while looking at a gun in your face in real time.
What makes you such a bold tough guy exuding attitude with your useless second guessing? Watching movies?
sgtsmile
04-29-07, 07:06 AM
Yea, totally surrendering is a great idea--a criminal will never shoot you anyway, even though you did what they wanted.
~
It is about risk reduction. Someone using a gun in a robbery has a few screws loose for sure, but someone going for a gun with a gun pressed to their head or pointed at their head from close range has one screw loose more than the criminal in the first place. Doing something that stupid almost gaurantees that the criminal (who we all know is a little nuts) WILL do something. Cooperating reduces that risk.
ellenDSD
04-29-07, 08:21 AM
I am so glad your son is okay. Tell him he has the support of many strangers; the whole world is not such a bad place.
MrCjolsen
04-29-07, 09:17 AM
The only time you should never cooperate is if the criminal asks you to get in a car with them.
MrCjolsen
04-29-07, 09:20 AM
Oh, and LBM, please make sure and let us know if and when the guys who robbed your son are apprehended. There's a little "groveling" on their part that I'd like to see happen.
Tom Stormcrowe
04-29-07, 09:24 AM
The only time you should never cooperate is if the criminal asks you to get in a car with them.
Or if he tells you to lie dow, face down or kneel face down. It's easier to shoot you if he perceives you in an inferior position. Basic behavioral principle, that much submission dehumanizes you in their eyes.:(
sbhikes
04-29-07, 10:19 AM
That is awful, Little Big Man. I'm glad your son didn't get hurt physically. My thoughts are with you.
illeagle
04-29-07, 03:15 PM
Perhaps its time to teach him to be aware of his surroundings. Never let someone get too close behind him.
Huh? Am I'm supposed to take off running anytime someone is close behind me or what?
cyclezealot
04-29-07, 03:21 PM
Or if he tells you to lie dow, face down or kneel face down. It's easier to shoot you if he perceives you in an inferior position. Basic behavioral principle, that much submission dehumanizes you in their eyes.:(
You are up against a real psycho, I don't think there is an assured way to deal with them. Displaying defiance might set them off too?
Tom Stormcrowe
04-29-07, 03:23 PM
You are up against a real psycho, I don't think there is an assured way to deal with them. Displaying defiance might set them off too?
There are no absolutes here, just general trends. What I said doesn't eliminate risk, just reduces the perception of being less than human.
makeinu
04-29-07, 04:31 PM
Yea, totally surrendering is a great idea--a criminal will never shoot you anyway, even though you did what they wanted.
~
Sounds good in theory, but what if what they want is to rape you? Would you rather be shot or raped?
I'm with stevesurf on this one. Don't let yourself get into situations where you have to make these kinds of decisions. If no one else is around and someone is getting too close then run before they can look you in the eye. Then the only thing you have to worry about is how fast you can run versus how good they can aim.
illeagle
04-29-07, 04:41 PM
The key to avoiding being a victim of crime is to not look like an easy target. For example, don't go walking around at night listening to your Ipod, oblivious to the world in a crime ridden neighborhood.
cyclezealot
04-29-07, 04:52 PM
There are no absolutes here, just general trends. What I said doesn't eliminate risk, just reduces the perception of being less than human.
Right, No absolutes. I think some psychos enjoy dominating their victims and seeing them beg. My one expereince at being mugged. Sort of like a bike crash, it's just too sudden and emotional to keep your feelings intact.
sbhikes
04-29-07, 05:29 PM
Well, if the guy is truly psycho (as in mentally ill, not a psychopath, because those guys are cold-blooded), what I've found is most of them just want someone to listen. You can always try that.
But in the heat of things, you just do what you can. Nothing more anybody can expect from you. A true psychopath will do whatever he wants to you, probably out-wit you no matter what you try. Your gut instinct will often tell you whether you're in the presence of a true psychopath or just a psychotic.
LittleBigMan
04-29-07, 08:04 PM
Thank you so much everyone. This forum has it's adversaries, but everyone seems to rally when tragedy strikes.
Somehow, when bad things happen, good things happen, too. The perps tried to get gas 4 times using his credit card, but failed. Also for some strange reason, they missed taking his cellphone (his connection to all his friends.) They got his driver's license, but he got that replaced the next day. They got his checkbook, but the bank put an alert on his account, so not even I can cash any of his checks without him standing next to me at the teller's window. They took his I-Pod Nano, but he says they can't load music on it (he can explain that one,) and this morning, my 11 year-old daughter had the brilliant idea of giving him her I-Pod Nano--they both got identical ones for Xmas. (I ordered her an MP3 to replace her I-Pod.)
And they got no cash.
And his trip to Orlando (to see friends and visit Disney World, which he can do for free, since he works there seasonally) is still on for Monday.
I'm thinking he's doing better than me, right now! :D
Az B
04-29-07, 08:14 PM
It definitely sounds like it could have been much worse. Glad to here he's ok. It sounds like you're in Atlanta. So am I, and although I've never been robbed, I've several friends that have. To me, it seems like something no one should ever have to go through, but I also know human nature and I'm afraid it's inevitable.
Even if they don't catch them now, they will. They're taking big risks and obviously not very smart. Those are the ones that usually get caught.
Az
buzzman
04-29-07, 08:19 PM
LBM- sorry to hear of such a challenging situation. Your son was right to not risk his life for an Ipod, a wallet and/or "pride". It takes far more courage, maturity and intelligence to resist doing something stupid in a situation like this. It's unfortunate that there will be a percentage of responders to this thread that will see it as an opportunity to second guess his actions or to puff themselves up with tough talk about what they would do. I live in Boston and we have had a spate of senseless killings, often the result of robberies of trinkets and junk that get challenged. 3 years ago a colleague of mine lost his best friend when he was mugged while walking in a park near their home. He called his friend, a 6'4" 240 lb. guy, who ran out of the house to confront the skinny teens who had robbed my colleague and his companion. He was stabbed and died almost instantly.
You've obviously raised a responsible, intelligent son. We could use more men in the world like him so I for one am glad he's still here to tell the tale.
LittleBigMan
04-29-07, 08:35 PM
It definitely sounds like it could have been much worse. Glad to here he's ok. It sounds like you're in Atlanta. So am I, and although I've never been robbed, I've several friends that have. To me, it seems like something no one should ever have to go through, but I also know human nature and I'm afraid it's inevitable.
Even if they don't catch them now, they will. They're taking big risks and obviously not very smart. Those are the ones that usually get caught.
Az
Az, you are on target. These kids carjacked a lady, then robbed my son at gunpoint. They risked going to prison for 2 counts of armed robbery, just to ride in a stolen car and listen to an I-Pod with classical music.
And they're not going to Disney World, instead they're looking over their shoulder in fear, waiting for the cops to come.
Blue Jays
04-29-07, 10:29 PM
Glad to hear your son got through that terrible ordeal unhurt. That is great news.
Helmet Head
04-29-07, 11:54 PM
About an hour ago, my son was robbed at gunpoint.
He was coming home from a concert at the Woodruff Arts Center. He was walking home from the bus stop in the dark. Three young men pointed a gun at him and took everything but his cellphone. Somehow they missed that.
He called me and I drove the 3/4 mile to pick him up. He was shaking. I had already called the police, but I told him to call them again to give them more specific information. I had to take the phone from him and talk, he was too shaken. They sent two officers to our door.
Turns out the young men my son described had just been identified in a carjacking.
I'm not sure if there is any forum where this fits. But since I know people on this website, I thought I'd post this incident, and this is the only forum dealing with "safety."
My son was shaken severely, and if he had been a lot younger, he would have been crying (started to, and he's a grown man.) Fortunately, he had no cash, only his I-pod, a school book, and basic I.D. (which they took.) I guess they didn't know he wasn't carrying anything else of value.
He kept telling me how foolish he felt "groveling" to them. But when the police showed up, after they found out the same perps had carjacked someone, the officer asking the questions started shaking a little bit, too. A bit of adrenaline, I guess...
Take care. I think such crimes are not taken sufficiently seriously in our culture.
I think rape should bring a life sentence, and a robbery like this should bring at least 25 years in prison.
We should have no toleration, under any circumstances, for behavior like this.
If these guys get caught, they'll probably only get a few years. Unless they happen to have some drugs on them...
The real tragedy is that they're probably robbing in order to get money to pay for drugs that are overpriced due to them being illegal, and that since buying and using the drugs already makes them "criminal", committing another "crime" like robbing your son or carjacking is, relatively speaking, no big deal for them.
Crimes - behavior that harms others - should be criminal. Stupid behavior like adults trading and using drugs should not be "criminal" because it does not harm others.
Blue Jays
04-30-07, 12:06 AM
Helmet Head-
"...The real tragedy is that they're probably robbing in order to get money to pay for drugs that are overpriced due to them being illegal..."
What? The original poster had a traumatic experience where his son's life was put in extreme danger during a robbery...and you're more concerned about the poor widdle criminals? :( Please post your notions about illegal drug usage elsewhere in a new thread. This isn't the place. Thanks.
Gurgus
04-30-07, 06:09 AM
I had a guy put a blade to my throat once. It sucks being helpless. In this kind of situation the OP's son had no choice but to do what they said to do. Once someone put you in that position, it really does something awful to your head. I'm glad to hear that your son wasn't physically hurt, but it still kind of messes with me after more than five years. You know, helplessness apparently doesn't sit too well with the male ego.
Tom Stormcrowe
04-30-07, 10:18 AM
Helmet Head-
What? The original poster had a traumatic experience where his son's life was put in extreme danger during a robbery...and you're more concerned about the poor widdle criminals? :( Please post your notions about illegal drug usage elsewhere in a new thread. This isn't the place. Thanks.
Blue Jays, I normally wouldn't defend HH, but if you take the context of his whole post, it's relevant to the thread, the cited quote you excerpted is a small part of his whole message
I think such crimes are not taken sufficiently seriously in our culture.
I think rape should bring a life sentence, and a robbery like this should bring at least 25 years in prison.
We should have no toleration, under any circumstances, for behavior like this.
This was a pretty strong statement that it was wrong and not to be tolerated.
Blue Jays
04-30-07, 10:30 AM
Tom, in my estimation Helmet Head could have easily come out strongly against the criminal without the editorial-style qualifier. The thug made an individual decision to hold a gun on someone to steal their possessions. That evil intent is inside the criminal's heart. This criminal ain't workin' towards the Nobel Peace Prize in his off hours! :D