I think such crimes are not taken sufficiently seriously in our culture.
I think rape should bring a life sentence, and a robbery like this should bring at least 25 years in prison.
We should have no toleration, under any circumstances, for behavior like this.
If these guys get caught, they'll probably only get a few years. Unless they happen to have some drugs on them...
The real tragedy is that they're probably robbing in order to get money to pay for drugs that are overpriced due to them being illegal, and that since buying and using the drugs already makes them "criminal", committing another "crime" like robbing your son or carjacking is, relatively speaking, no big deal for them.
Crimes - behavior that harms others - should be criminal. Stupid behavior like adults trading and using drugs should not be "criminal" because it does not harm others.
HH, I can see how you and many others might think this because it is probably so foreign to you, but seeing violent people everyday has taught me that this type of thinking is backwards. There are and will be violent people. The fact that they gravitate towards the drug trade and other criminal activities is not because they are some poor addict, but purely because it is illegal and they can make their living through violence and intimidation rather than through competence and skill like the rest of us. In fact, most addicts are non-violent (per-se) and most violent dealers are not addicted.
slowandsteady
04-30-07, 11:42 AM
Can we please just ignore HH? The only reason he posted here was to get some attention driven towards him. This isn't about HH or his rantings.
Now back on topic. I am glad your son is okay. There is no shame in doing what you need to do to save your own life. There is also no shame in crying. This was a traumatic event.
Blue Jays
04-30-07, 12:52 PM
+1 to slowandsteady
Keith99
04-30-07, 12:57 PM
He kept telling me how foolish he felt "groveling" to them. But when the police showed up, after they found out the same perps had carjacked someone, the officer asking the questions started shaking a little bit, too. A bit of adrenaline, I guess...
Take care.
He got out pretty much unharmed. Not foolish as I see it. Not foolish at all. Now if he had been with his girl and felt they were after something other than money it could be a different stroy. Considering what they were able to take he made the 100% right decisions. The foolish thing would have been to resist, in short doing something foolish.
Just for background. I've stepped in to stop a streetfight. I've got involved in a domestic dispute between people I did not know (ask Deputy Jones how Police feel about domestic disputes). I once when doing youth work ended up running TOWARDS the sound of one of the kids screaming in terror in the middle of the night during a camping trip having no idea what I was running towards, bear, nut case with gun or?? (Turned out he was dislexic and was simply lost after getting up to take a p*ss).
Again your son did right. Courage is doing the right thing in spite of risk. Foolishness is doing the macho thing for no good reason. Standing up in the case you describe would be the second of these.
Helmet Head
04-30-07, 03:43 PM
HH, I can see how you and many others might think this because it is probably so foreign to you, but seeing violent people everyday has taught me that this type of thinking is backwards. First, I'm not talking only about violence. Most of them start with petty crimes like shoplifting, then move up to burglary and eventually robbery.
There are and will be violent people. The fact that they gravitate towards the drug trade and other criminal activities is not because they are some poor addict, but purely because it is illegal and they can make their living through violence and intimidation rather than through competence and skill like the rest of us. With all due respect, according to James P. Gray, a judge, you're the one who has it backwards. Have you read his book, Our Drug Laws Have Failed and What We Can Do About It: A Judicial Indictment of the War on Drugs?
In fact, most addicts are non-violent (per-se) and most violent dealers are not addicted. We agree on that much. There are people who are going to be violent and we can't do anything about them except catch them when they are and try to put them away. Then there are those who will never be violent. That's great. But then there are all those in between, whose involvement in violence is determined by the environment that they're in. These are the once enticed by the drug war, the ones who steal and rob in order to get money to pay for their illegal drugs, and never stole or robbed or broke any serious laws (until using, buying, selling drugs) for any other reason. Not to mention all the innocent victims of drive-by shootings and all the other collateral damage in the WOD.
Az B
04-30-07, 03:46 PM
With all due respect, according to James P. Gray, a judge, you're the one who has it backwards. Have you read his book, Our Drug Laws Have Failed and What We Can Do About It: A Judicial Indictment of the War on Drugs?
With all due respect, that's one man's opinion.
This really belongs in another thread. Maybe politics.
Az
deputyjones
04-30-07, 04:06 PM
With all due respect, that's one man's opinion.
This really belongs in another thread. Maybe politics.
Az
Exactly, just because a publisher saw fit to print it does not make it correct. I live this everyday.
Raiyn
04-30-07, 04:13 PM
Can we please just ignore HH? The only reason he posted here was to get some attention driven towards him. This isn't about HH or his rantings.
Now back on topic. I am glad your son is okay. There is no shame in doing what you need to do to save your own life. There is also no shame in crying. This was a traumatic event.
+10000 on both counts
deputyjones
04-30-07, 04:13 PM
With all due respect, according to James P. Gray, a judge, you're the one who has it backwards. Have you read his book, Our Drug Laws Have Failed and What We Can Do About It: A Judicial Indictment of the War on Drugs?
No, I haven't, but I have read many others and couple that education with first hand experience of speaking directly with offenders, their families, friends, lawyers, etc. There are dozens of books published monthly on the subjects of crime, gangs, drugs, etc. Taking one out of the lot and relying on it is not a good idea.
**EDIT: The rest are correct that this is not the place for this discussion and this is the last I will say in this debate.
Jolt
05-01-07, 06:38 AM
Huh? Am I'm supposed to take off running anytime someone is close behind me or what?
No, just a quick glance over your shoulder to check them out. Then you've taken away the element of surprise.
slowandsteady
05-01-07, 08:15 AM
No, just a quick glance over your shoulder to check them out. Then you've taken away the element of surprise.
Or even a long glance....
I was in Italy on vacation in February and was taking public transportation to get around. There was a fellow that was standing very close to a friend of mine on the bus and something just didn't seem right.
Then we got off the bus, and so did he. He crossed the street and we went on our separate ways....so I thought. Well eventually we walked the 10 blocks or so to the church we were going to visit and lo and behold there he was. It turned out we actually got off at the wrong stop(3 stops too soon). So it was very odd that this man would get off 3 stops too soon as well and happen to be in the same church as us.
Well, we left the church and headed towards a restaurant several blocks away and this guy was about a block behind. So what I did was walk backwards and stare at him the whole way. After a block of this, he was gone.
So no, you don't run every time someone follows you, but staring at them in such an obvious way lets them know you know what they are up to and you have a very good look at their face.
By the way, no one else in my group had any idea we were being followed for almost an hour....you have to be vigilant. This very easily could have ended up very bad if I wasn't paying attention.
Jolt
05-01-07, 09:11 AM
Or even a long glance....
I was in Italy on vacation in February and was taking public transportation to get around. There was a fellow that was standing very close to a friend of mine on the bus and something just didn't seem right.
Then we got off the bus, and so did he. He crossed the street and we went on our separate ways....so I thought. Well eventually we walked the 10 blocks or so to the church we were going to visit and lo and behold there he was. It turned out we actually got off at the wrong stop(3 stops too soon). So it was very odd that this man would get off 3 stops too soon as well and happen to be in the same church as us.
Well, we left the church and headed towards a restaurant several blocks away and this guy was about a block behind. So what I did was walk backwards and stare at him the whole way. After a block of this, he was gone.
So no, you don't run every time someone follows you, but staring at them in such an obvious way lets them know you know what they are up to and you have a very good look at their face.
By the way, no one else in my group had any idea we were being followed for almost an hour....you have to be vigilant. This very easily could have ended up very bad if I wasn't paying attention.
Yikes! Sounds like he had a few screws loose. Good point though--if the person really seems sketchy, make it very obvious that you're watching them. I guess I was thinking more about things like walking down the sidewalk in a busy area and hearing someone coming up behind you (I walk pretty fast, so any time it sounds as though someone behind me is getting closer I check it out).
Wino Ryder
05-01-07, 04:05 PM
Sorry to hear about your son's traumatic experience, LBM, but he's alive and well, and thats great. Sounds like you have a good, smart son and I know you're proud.
Personally, I've never been robbed directly, with a gun in my face, but I was damn near truck hi-jacked in '87 that began at a South Carolina rest area on I-95 and ended 50 miles away in Eloree S/C. That was a traumatic experience too, because I was running for my life. It was easily the most terrifying thing I ever been through, and if it were'nt for my family's support and some time off, I dont know how I would've fared.
Hug your son, man
LittleBigMan
05-01-07, 05:46 PM
Hug your son, man
Funny you should say that. When I did that first night (a funny sight, lil' ol' me hugging a big tall man,) he started crying--but only for a second.
oboeguy
05-01-07, 07:27 PM
Glad your son survived unscathed. Getting mugged is an awful experience (been there, done that). What I don't get is the bit about "fortunately" he didn't have any money on him. That's crazy! I used to run at night a lot and would always be sure to carry "mug money".
jk610
05-06-07, 07:44 PM
Getting your personal security violated like that does change you a little bit, at least thats what im going through now. A couple weeks ago I was walking back home from my night class and I was jumped by a group of young black kids. I am hyper-aware of my surroundings at all times and I knew the situation wasnt right from the beginning. They tailed me for 3 blocks whispering to each other but since they were a good half block away while following I just started to walk alittle faster. At one point they caught up to me and as I was about to take off running one of them hit me from behind and I kind of stumbled over and they all tried punching and kicking me to no avail. As soon as I got on my feet they all scattered.
Now a couple weeks later I think back on the times I was out walking alone in bad areas at night and didnt think anything of it. Now when theres someone walking behind me at night I get really anxious and almost scared all over again. Anytime I have to go somewhere at night by myself I ride my bike and stay in lit areas.
LittleBigMan
05-06-07, 07:51 PM
Getting your personal security violated like that does change you a little bit, at least thats what im going through now. A couple weeks ago I was walking back home from my night class and I was jumped by a group of young black kids. I am hyper-aware of my surroundings at all times and I knew the situation wasnt right from the beginning. They tailed me for 3 blocks whispering to each other but since they were a good half block away while following I just started to walk alittle faster. At one point they caught up to me and as I was about to take off running one of them hit me from behind and I kind of stumbled over and they all tried punching and kicking me to no avail. As soon as I got on my feet they all scattered.
Now a couple weeks later I think back on the times I was out walking alone in bad areas at night and didnt think anything of it. Now when theres someone walking behind me at night I get really anxious and almost scared all over again. Anytime I have to go somewhere at night by myself I ride my bike and stay in lit areas.
Good post.
Thanks for the info, man.
garysol1
05-06-07, 08:00 PM
About an hour ago, my son was robbed at gunpoint.
He was coming home from a concert at the Woodruff Arts Center. He was walking home from the bus stop in the dark. Three young men pointed a gun at him and took everything but his cellphone. Somehow they missed that.
He called me and I drove the 3/4 mile to pick him up. He was shaking. I had already called the police, but I told him to call them again to give them more specific information. I had to take the phone from him and talk, he was too shaken. They sent two officers to our door.
Turns out the young men my son described .
They were not MEN....They were gutter rats and nothing better