Fifty Plus (50+) - Aah, so this is what "dialed-in" feels like!

I've been tinkering with my Trek 7600 hybrid that I picked up used last November. Initially it felt okay, but was somewhat uncomfortable.

Since then I've done the following:

Changed out the saddle, which was a rather generic hybrid saddle, to a Terry Cite Y Gel, which struck me as having some potential of being comfortable on an upright bike.

Tightened the suspension seat post and suspension fork to their maximum positions.

Adjusted the seat height a couple of times.

Swapped out the 1" riser handlebar for a 3" riser, that also has a bit more sweep.

First adjusted the adjustable stem to 60 degrees with the 1" riser bar, then down to 40 degrees with the 3" bar.

Installed bar ends (picked up used with a few scrapes for $4).

Made non-OCP move and put a yellow bottle cage on a red bike. The yellow cage had been on sale for $2.

I took it out this morning for a spin around the neighborhood and it felt pretty darn good. But the "boys" were a bit cramped. Brought it back in and adjusted the saddle angle by one more notch forward and took it out again for a couple of mles.

Wow!. It was wonderful. Less weight on my hands than last year. Comfortable shoulders. Saddle felt good (of course this could change dramatically at mile #10). It just fit. Riding was suddenly much more natural and comfortable. I have never felt so comfortable on a bike in my life.

It was fascinating to me as to how much difference that last little click on the saddle position made.

Now it will be back to the Sun recumbent and my old trusty Bridgestone CB-1 to continue tweaking them.

Glad to hear it's working for you. I'm about to throw in the towel on The Diego, as much fun as the bike is, I can't get rid of hand pain despite numerous tweaks. I've learned I like road bikes, which comes as a surprise, so I think of my adventures with The Diego as a long test ride.

So, glad yours is dialed in! :D

Hand pain is the reason why I will not ride a bike with drop bars. People talk about all of the different hand positions. True enough, but everyone of them is painful for me. With the 3" riser bar, my hand position is now well above my saddle position. That seems to be a key for me.

Hand pain is the reason why I will not ride a bike with drop bars. People talk about all of the different hand positions. True enough, but everyone of them is painful for me. With the 3" riser bar, my hand position is now well above my saddle position. That seems to be a key for me.

I don't think it's the drop bars per se, because I typically keep my hands on the tops which would be where they would be on a flat bar. I think this bike is just a wee bit too small for me. Damn!

I got the road bike last June and it was not until 8 months later that I got it sorted. The bars still gave me hand pain but I decided to leave the bike in standard form until I was convinced it was fit and not new type of bike that was the problem. When I got the bike- I changed the pedals and put a 20mm longer stem on. For the next 7 months I rode it basically as standard. Then I ordered the new wheels and got a higher stem but longer so that the reach would not alter. I also got a new saddle but that was supposed to be for the Tandem but it is a bit thin. Fitted it to the road bike instead. Standard saddle was allright but after 60 miles it was beginning to find a sore bit . Got the new wheels a couple of weeks later and went for my first real ride on a bike that fitted- was faster- and was comfortable.

8 months after getting a road bike- I finally had a bike that worked. Up till then- I think I was beginning to wonder if this road biking was all it is cracked up to be.

I'm glad to hear you got it pretty close to the way you want it Tom, it's all down hill now.

I'm glad to hear you got it pretty close to the way you want it Tom, it's all down hill now.

With a tailwind!

Hand pain is the reason why I will not ride a bike with drop bars. People talk about all of the different hand positions. True enough, but everyone of them is painful for me. With the 3" riser bar, my hand position is now well above my saddle position. That seems to be a key for me.

Did you try a drop bar set up as high as your current riser bar?

No I haven't. It would take a serious stem extender to get the hand position of the drops up that high. And even if I did that, the position of the drops would still be in front of the stem, forcing me to lean much further forward.

I have ridden a road bike that had an adjustable stem and had the shop put the bar at maximum height and angle, and it wasn't comfortable at all. It was still too low and forward for me.

Which isn't surprising as even this upright sitting hybrid was too low at its maximum settings, until I replaced the handlebar with one that raised the hand position another 2". I went into my LBS to buy a 2" riser bar and switched to 3" right at the time of purchase. Glad I did now.

Wouldn't it be pretty hard to get the hand positions on a drop bar as high as this bar, which is in turn mounted on a 40 degree angle stem?

Ulnar Neuropathy- compression of the nerve in the hand when the hand is subjected to excessive pressure, generally over an extended period of time. Been there, done that. My latest and ultimately successful solution was the addition of a 2nd layer of cork bar wrap. Voila! No mas duelle in mi manos. That is "supposed" to mean "No more pain in my hands". I had also swapped out my stem and rotated my drop handlebars a bit as well. Try the double layer, you'll never go back to a single layer again.

Was just looking at SaiKaiTai's new LeMond Reno. I rode one just like it at a Trek store, same color & everything. Loved it looks, but got off of it after about 3 minutes. Looking at his pics, I'd say my hands are about 2"-3" higher than his drop position, and at least 6" closer to me.

If my 3" riser bar didn't do the trick, the next move was to switch to a North Road bar that I have in my parts box.

It's nice when one has long cables and everything can be easily moved from one bar to another. Switching out my 1" riser for a 3" riser cost me a grand total of $12. The new saddle only cost me $15, as I picked it up from my LBS as a pull off of a new bike where the other buyer didn't want it.

One of the main benefits of having frames built for you is that the bike is usually "dialled in" from the word go.
sitting on a jig in the shop is not, I know , the same as doing a century, but the builder should ask questions about your preferences about riding position, height of bars etc, and the build should provide for a comfortable ride.
Plus its a real nice feeling having a small builders name on the frame, and knowing you're riding a unique bike always feels good.
george

I just bought my first road bike, and because of disc problems decided to go for a custom build. The shop I went to uses the Serrotta Fit Cycle system. The process took about 3 hours, but it was amazing how I noticed the difference with every little change he made. For me I think it was well worth the money, just with what I learned about bikes through that fitting process. And the end result was much better than dealing with pain and many trips back to the LBS. My wife just went for the same fitting, but can't afford the custom bike. They still draw up a frame to her specific geometry and recommend a few bikes whose frames come close and can be tweaked even closer.

I have the old hand pain with my trek 7100 Hybrid too. I have an ajustable stem so I am still playing with it after a few years with this bike. The problem is when the bars are up higher I am nothing but a wind sail and not aero at all, riding into a head wind is very hard. I have not done over 20 mile trips with this bike so I can live with it. I do know that the stock saddle sucks. I will be replacing this soon. Getting a new road bike in a week, hope I don't have the same trouble with the hand pain.

T

One adjustment that may affect hand pain doesn't seem to be mentioned much.

The angle that your brake levers come out from the bar should be roughly parallel to your forarms when riding in the natural position. For most of us this equates to a downward angle on the levers. Are you rotating the levers up as the bars are raised to maintain a comfortable wrist position?

I have the old hand pain with my trek 7100 Hybrid too. I have an ajustable stem so I am still playing with it after a few years with this bike. The problem is when the bars are up higher I am nothing but a wind sail and not aero at all, riding into a head wind is very hard. I have not done over 20 mile trips with this bike so I can live with it. I do know that the stock saddle sucks. I will be replacing this soon. T

Yup. The higher your handlebar position the more important the saddle becomes. The venerable Brooks company, for example, recommends different (wider and springier) saddles for bikes with more upright riding positions.

Yes I am all for Brooks, looks like it would be great on my Hybrid !!!!!!!!!! Have to find one CHEAP

T

Yup. The higher your handlebar position the more important the saddle becomes. The venerable Brooks company, for example, recommends different (wider and springier) saddles for bikes with more upright riding positions.

And so should everyone!

If not springier then at least cushier.

Nothing else makes sense.

Take a look at the stock seats on bikes. The more upright the riding position, the wider and cushier the stock seat. On crank-forward cruisers the seats are very wide. Here's an example from an Electra Townie. The dark black looking "cut out" is not a cut out, just a piece of very black material.

I just bought my first road bike, and because of disc problems decided to go for a custom build. The shop I went to uses the Serrotta Fit Cycle system. The process took about 3 hours, but it was amazing how I noticed the difference with every little change he made.

I attended a bike clinic this Spring where this system was demonstrated. The presentation was very effective. They had a guy riding an elevated bike and would make adjustments on the fly. When something was out of adjustment, it was very easy to see the effect. Watching it gave me some pointers about making my own config changes.

I have the old hand pain with my trek 7100 Hybrid too. I have an ajustable stem so I am still playing with it after a few years with this bike. The problem is when the bars are up higher I am nothing but a wind sail and not aero at all, riding into a head wind is very hard.

Yep, that's my tradeoff. I can either be more aero with less comfort and more pain.

Or a comfortable, pain-free windsail.

No I haven't. It would take a serious stem extender to get the hand position of the drops up that high. And even if I did that, the position of the drops would still be in front of the stem, forcing me to lean much further forward.
Wouldn't it be pretty hard to get the hand positions on a drop bar as high as this bar, which is in turn mounted on a 40 degree angle stem?

Not the drops :rolleyes: , the top and brake hoods of the drop bar. That is where 90% of your riding would be. Of course, if you are riding a frame too small for you, it will be hard to get the tops of the bars up to level with the saddle.

Oops, I wrote "drops" when I meant to say "hoods." All of my comments pertained to hoods, not drops. Including my comparisons to SKT's Lemond Reno. His hoods are much lower and much further forward than my grips.

My bike's frame fits me well, and all of my recent comparisons (Giant OCR, Lemond Reno, Trek Pilot) were all bikes that fit me very well.

And so should everyone!

If not springier then at least cushier.

But not TOO soft and springy! I tried one of those. Let me say that the pain of riding a saddle that is too hard pales in comparison to the pain of riding one that is way too soft. And I only rode the too soft saddle for 15 minutes. I could hardly walk for the next two days.

Just got back in from riding for about 75 minutes on a dry, hard packed rail trail. This had to be the most comfortable ride I've taken in 30 years. Only the slightest hand pain, which just a little shaking took care of. And almost no rear pain. A beautiful ride in the countryside on an 80 degree afternoon.

This is what I hoped I would be able to enjoy when I started rekindling my interest in cycling last September.

Oops, I wrote "drops" when I meant to say "hoods." All of my comments pertained to hoods, not drops. Including my comparisons to SKT's Lemond Reno. His hoods are much lower and much further forward than my grips.

My bike's frame fits me well, and all of my recent comparisons (Giant OCR, Lemond Reno, Trek Pilot) were all bikes that fit me very well.

Thanks for clearing that up. It seems that you have made every attempt to find a way to be comfortable on a drop bar road bike. For whatever reason, your hands are painful in positions and with setups which, after a period of adjustment, work for many people.
The good thing is that you have found a way to set your bike up so that it is comfortable and you can enjoy riding it. When all is said and done, that is what really matters.

Now you can turn off the computer and get out and ride :D

Off topic ... BluesDawg avatar

You say "Free Imus." I thought that is what they did, they set Imus free. They made him a free agent.

I wish I were that free (and rich).

Watch it, I'll have you fired!

It would take a serious stem extender to get the hand position of the drops up that high.

Serious enough? :p

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d195/GonzoDawg/bicycles/tall.jpg

That one certainly gets them HIGH enough!

:eek:

But they are still way too far forward!

How could anyone ride that thing?? They'd have to be like 6'10".

Remember, as the bars get higher, the headset angle brings them closer to the rider. Also, less of the rider's arm length is used up in reaching down, so the forward reach seems shorter.

This bike was ridden by a man who had severe back problems with mutiple disc fusions. He was an avid rider who either had to come up with a radical solution or give up riding. He rode a century that day.

Took an 8-mile ride over lunch on my Trek 820 lunch-time beater. That bike is definitely not "dialed-in." Even though I replaced the stock stem with an adjustable one and brought the angle up to 50 degrees, the bar is still too low. Probably 2" too low.

I put on a long, angled set of bar ends and positioned them up over the handlebar. They make the bike look like it has horns. I ride holding the top of them about 50% of the time.

I don't think the brake and shifter cables are long enough for me to put on a North Road bar (have one in my garage). And I hate to drop much money on a $50 bike. Perhaps I'll replace the stock 1" riser bar with a 2" riser & put on thicker grips and just live with it. I'm never going to take it on long rides.

It is nice to go out for a ride over lunch.

On feeling dialed in, last Sunday i did a 50 mile ride, and for the first time in years I felt like part of the bike. Higher bars, and of course the Brooks saddle made all the difference. It was a wonderful ride, that is until the wind came up for the last 15 miles as a headwind of 10-15 mph with gusts up to 25. That part was just brutal. But the feeling of being one with the bike, it don't get no better!

Cables and housing are cheap.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d195/GonzoDawg/worthless_thread_wo_pics.gif

One adjustment that may affect hand pain doesn't seem to be mentioned much.

The angle that your brake levers come out from the bar should be roughly parallel to your forarms when riding in the natural position. For most of us this equates to a downward angle on the levers. Are you rotating the levers up as the bars are raised to maintain a comfortable wrist position?

Enjoying this thread since I am also dialing in my Specialized Sirrus. Swapping the flat bar for a slight riser with more sweep made a huge difference, but after yesterday's ride decided to take a closer look at the brake levers. I set them up the same angle as from the factory, and concluded they need to be angled down a little. Thanks, maddmaxx!

Also considering shifting the bar ends to nearly horizontal.

Enjoying this thread since I am also dialing in my Specialized Sirrus. Swapping the flat bar for a slight riser with more sweep made a huge difference, but after yesterday's ride decided to take a closer look at the brake levers. I set them up the same angle as from the factory, and concluded they need to be angled down a little. Thanks, maddmaxx!

Also considering shifting the bar ends to nearly horizontal.

Maddmaxx ain't so crazy. I've seen too many cyclists with the brake levers set wrong. Invariably, they have their fingers splayed over the lever, causing the wrist to form an L. This is a clear recipe for carpal tunnel and nerve compression across the heel of the hand. Definitely rotate those levers to the same angle as the forearm. The follow-thru on the pull should direct the force in a line along the forearm, keeping the tendons from having to make a turn inside the sheath. Then, we can splay the fingers all we want. :D

Tweaked my brake levers this morning, along with moving the bar ends to nearly horizontal. The brake change made a noticeable difference. The bar adjustment was more subtle. The change moved me forward, into a more road-like position, and it will take more than a 20-minute ride to decide if I like the change or not.

But working out these minor adjustments is part of the fun of riding!

My attempt to install a North Road bar on my lunch beater failed when three of the 4 cables were too short. I have another 3" riser bar that I picked up earlier in the year for $8, so I'll try it tomorrow or sometime soon. Don't know if I would have been in love with the North Road, but would have liked to have tried it.

I'm getting into now. Giving some love and attention to my 20 year old Bridgestone too. Although I hate to even swap parts on it as it is nearly all original.

I find it relaxing to tinker around on the easier mechanical stuff.

What's the big deal about changing cables and housing? Cheap and easy.

I don't like changing cables and housings. And by the time I swap out 3 cables, I will have spent 50% or more of what I paid for the bike. For this bike I consider it too much trouble and cost. So far all I've put on it has been stuff out of my parts box.

I successfully got the 3" riser bar on it. And I installed thick gel grips on it while I was at it. Much better. Not perfect, but much better. Hopefully I'll be able to ride it for 20-30 minutes without needing gloves.

Now that I've got my Trek 7600 set up, and my lunch time Trek 820 is in much better shape, it was time to give the old '87 Bridgestone CB-1 some love.

I decided since I wasn't going to do long rides on it, and would only be riding it on bike trails, that I would strip off a lot of stuff and try to get the weight down. So off came the U-bolt lock & bracket, then my mirrors, and then the hard, unrideable Vetta gel saddle.

On went the Terry Fly Ti saddle that came included on the Trek 820 that I got for $50. This saddle weighed less than half the one I took off. I'm going to think about replacing the seat post, it's the original heavy chrome one that has the old style brackets.

Then I loosened the front brake cable, which gave me enough play to raise the stem by about 5/8". The old Suntour friction thumb shifters worked fine after the changes. It still has the original North Road-like handlebar.

Then a few test rides and some readjusting of the saddle position.

It's now about 4 pounds lighter and the riding position is more comfortable. It felt "zippier" than before. Have to get it out on the trail to see if I feel like it is too stiff (no suspension, Cro-Mo frame & fork).

Having owned it for 20 years, I feel like I owe it to keep it in good condition and ride it now & then.

So I've now ridden 18 miles in 2 hours and 26 miles in 3 hours (total elasped time). The Trek has been very comfortable.

The biggest surprise is how effective the changes have been on combating hand pain. I had some pain in the last half-hour of the 3-hour ride - out of my thumb with tendonitis (sic). That happens frequently when I do almost anything for a long time. No pain at all in the palms of my hands. No numbness or tingling. Didn't even use my bar ends, installed to give me an alternate hand position. Could probably take those off.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d195/GonzoDawg/worthless_thread_wo_pics.gif

Okay, finally a few pics. Taken just 2 weeks ago, but the bikes have already changed a bit again.

The blue Bridgestone now has the mirror and lock clip removed.

The red Trek now has the bar ends (horns) removed and has thicker grips. Note the nice yellow bottle cage! And how high the handlebars are now ... which is why I don't need the bar ends anymore, once I got the bar this high, I quit using them and stopped having hand problems.

The Sun EZRider still looks the same. Note that spring suspension on the front under the seat. That baby really soaks up the bumps.

The garage door is in need of repainting and has some rust where the bolts go through. The door is 30 years old.

Compare my pic of my 1987 Bridgestone with this image from the 1987 Bridgestone catalog.

My personal opinion on the appearance of my bikes is as follows:

I like the look of the Bridgestone. I like the blue color and the simple, clean lines.

The Trek is a run of the mill hybrid in appearance, but does have very good components. The red color is okay.

The Sun EZ-Rider looks cool but I find the color pretty average. Not a huge fan of silver & black.

I am curious about why there is so much discussion of saddle soreness and wrist pain. I cannot say that I have experienced either. Right or wrong, I tend to support my weight on my legs when I ride. On uphills, I will sacrifice a bit of pedalling efficiency to allow part of each downward stroke lift the dead weight off my rump. By the time I reach the crest, it's as though (in "rump" terms) I had been standing out of saddle all that time.

. . . same goes for my wrists and shoulders. When those parts start complaining that they have been held in one position for too long (or at the first sign of numbness in any part of my hands), I will shift to a gear combination that is two or three cogs longer than normal, assume my most severe tuck position, and take all the weight off my arms/shoulders (only enough contact with the bars to steer the bike). Generally, after a few cranks from this position, I find that my speed has picked up (doubt this is due to better aerodynamics, probably something to do with more power in my stroke from that position).

I find this a great change of pace and totally refreshes all those parts that tend to complain on a long ride.

Obviously, all this position stuff, seat types, adjustments, and comfort/discomfort, etc is very subjective and personal. The above works nicely for me, though.

I ride a Fizik Arione saddle, and make certain to keep that nose pointed slightly down. Obviously, this could put more pressure on ones arms/shoulders/wrists, so, I make certain that my riding style keeps more of my weight supported by my legs and not my rump on the saddle or my arms/wrists/shoulders on the bars.

I love and swear by that saddle, but, truth be told, I never suffered during a ride from saddle pain no matter what saddle I used.

Caruso

I got the road bike last June and it was not until 8 months later that I got it sorted.
In the past when I bought a bike the only measurement that I took was to straddle the bike and see if I could lift it off the floor. Then I worked for months changing things to see if I could make the bike comfortable to ride. I rarely ever (as in never) achieved a comfortable ride.

I bought a new road bike about a month ago. The dealer (who is also a mechanic for some pretty well known teams) spent an hour and a half setting the bike up for me. He took all kinds of measurements before I ever sat on the bike. He adjusted everything . . . . the seat, the bars, the reach of the stem, the position of the cleats on my shoes, the crank arm length. I have been going on 20 to 30 mile rides (long for me since I am just getting started again) and I have not had any pain or discomfort anywhere!

My hat is off to you if you can set up your own bike but I will never try to adjust my own bike again. I just don't have the expertise. In fact I am thinking about taking my old mountain bike to him and paying him to adjust it.

The angle that your brake levers come out from the bar should be roughly parallel to your forarms when riding in the natural position. For most of us this equates to a downward angle on the levers. Are you rotating the levers up as the bars are raised to maintain a comfortable wrist position?

That's what I thought too but I learned from a team mechanic that bikes are now being set up with the brake levers angled upward. It doesn't sound like it would be comfortable but it is.

That's what I thought too but I learned from a team mechanic that bikes are now being set up with the brake levers angled upward. It doesn't sound like it would be comfortable but it is.

If you are talking about MTB type levers, which madmaxx was, I don't see how this could be right.