Vehicular Cycling (VC) - Changing culture and door zone cycling

It should be added that anyone who is really interested in this stuff should get down on the ground with a ruler or tape and find out exactly how much is how much. You may find that your conception of what four feet looks like is significantly off the mark.
Tell me about it (my measuring tape is in my jersey pocket as I type this).

I'm trying to get the city to reduce the parking lane widths from 8 to 7', the outside motor vehicle lane from 12' to 11', to allow for 6' bike lanes, and I had to made some confirming measurments today. Right now they have marks indicating they will painted the parking lanes at 8', the bike lanes at 4', and the outside traffic lane at 12'.

Current marks:

+ 12' lane + 4' bike lane + 8' parking |CURB|

I want:

+ 11' lane + 6' bike lane + 7' parking |CURB|

Here is a photo of my measurement of the marks showing 4' width for the bike lane.

43593

They were going to paint these things on Friday, but my emails and photos postponed the project. Hopefully they'll get it right.

No it was a four and a halfer at the time, but there is a good foot-to-two feet between the right line and the doorhandles. I was traveling on or near the line. Closer to six feet from the doors than five I'd estimate.
I like that 1-2' buffer, but what keeps drivers from parking their cars near that line instead of against the curb?

On the street that was just repaved (where my picture was taken) right now the traffic lines are in, but the bike lane and parking lane stripes are not in yet (only the markings shown in my photo). What I have noticed is that since there is no left stripe to align with (which was there at 8' before they repaved), all the cars are now parking against the curb, futher right than they normally do when the parking stripe is there.

In fact, I'm thinking just a bike lane stripe at 13' from the curb might be better than that plus a parking lane stripe even at 7'.

Ideally a rider would never get closer than five feet from parked cars. In reality, urban riders are likely to find themselves in situations where squeezing closer to the DZ can be useful and 'reasonably safe' depending on situational awareness/speed. I'm willing to make that compromise at times.

Robert Taking a calculated risk is taking a calculated risk: if that's what you want to do, that's what you want to do. But no complaining if you're burned...

What I'm trying address is those cyclists who are riding with their tires tracking 3-4' from parked cars and mistakenly believing they are safely out of the door zone.



Keep in mind I was more than five feet from the doorhandles when the Mercedes came out of that alley. A foot or two difference in lateral position is not going to save the bacon of an inattentive rider passing a line of parked cars and trucks.
That was an intersection situation, something else again. True it was a minor intersection with a blind alley, but never-the-less, having ridden on that street for what? Thousands of times? You certainly knew about it, and, I would think, would/should have been much further left than "a foot or two" simply because of good habit honed from good practices built on a solid foundation of obeying the VC rules of the road... Oh, wait, you don't believe in that... ;)

VC rules of the road my butt. Based on your definition of 'following the rules as other drivers of the road do' (monkey-see, monkey-do), we'd all be riding in the door zone, because in tight urban streets that's where most of the cars travel. Staying away from the door zone when possible and paying attention at all times ain't got nothing to do with your VC brand, it's just plain common sense that you feel the need to pilfer to give your VC brand some credibility.

VC rules of the road my butt. Based on your definition of 'following the rules as other drivers of the road do' (monkey-see, monkey-do), we'd all be riding in the door zone, because in tight urban streets that's where most of the cars travel. Staying away from the door zone when possible and paying attention at all times ain't got nothing to do with your VC brand, it's just plain common sense that you feel the need to pilfer to give your VC brand some credibility.
You've been called on the one repeatedly. VC is not pretending you are a car (or any motor vehicle)

But if you insist on comparing to motor vehicles, a better comparision would be where would most motorcycle operators drive in relation to a door zone?

Al

Outside a few pithy slogans, I haven't heard yet of any positive methods to help people stay out of the door zones. Seems like just another HH thread to push his silly anti-Portalnd agenda.

Outside a few pithy slogans, I haven't heard yet of any positive methods to help people stay out of the door zones. Seems like just another HH thread to push his silly anti-Portalnd agenda.
Actively working to get the city to widen door zone bike lanes from 4' to 6' is not a positive method to help people stay out of the door zones?

I would rather ride closer to oncoming vehicles than parked ones.

You've been called on the one repeatedly. VC is not pretending you are a car (or any motor vehicle)

But if you insist on comparing to motor vehicles, a better comparision would be where would most motorcycle operators drive in relation to a door zone?

Al

BS, Al...I am not calling VC a car...I am saying that other vehicles are routinely operating in the door zone - even in downtown Phoenix, so if we apply HH's Monkey-see, Monkey-do clause that states we adhere to the rules of the road in the same manner that other vehicles do, we'd all be riding in the door zone. HH-brand VC has many contradictions and inconsitencies, this is just one of them....perhaps because he tends to overcomplicate it so much trying to be a freakin big shot.

Motorcycle operators ain't no better in this regard than motorists or cyclists. You wanna address the problem it's systemic, not a cyclist-specific thing.

I would rather ride closer to oncoming vehicles than parked ones.

Riding in Atlanta, I'm sure you walk that fine line between traffic in your lane and parked cars, just as we do here in Cleveland or Akron, or as they do in NYC or just about any other congested urban business/downtown district. Not everyone has wide lanes and nice roads where they can choose to ride in the safest possible position...just as we can't drive in the safest possible position - we makes do with what we got to work with, compromising many of these neat little rules that aint so neat in reality. Tell ya one thing, riding in San Diego or around Phoenix is cake compared to most eastern cities.

BS, Al...I am not calling VC a car...I am saying that other vehicles are routinely operating in the door zone - even in downtown Phoenix, so if we apply HH's Monkey-see, Monkey-do clause that states we adhere to the rules of the road in the same manner that other vehicles do, we'd all be riding in the door zone. HH-brand VC has many contradictions and inconsitencies, this is just one of them....perhaps because he tends to overcomplicate it so much trying to be a freakin big shot.

Motorcycle operators ain't no better in this regard than motorists or cyclists. You wanna address the problem it's systemic, not a cyclist-specific thing.
The key difference is that drivers of cars are not the 'victims' when a door is opened in front of their car.

I disagree that you were not saying riding VC is like a car. You said if we follow what car drivers do we would be riding in door zones. "'following the rules as other drivers of the road do' (monkey-see, monkey-do), we'd all be riding in the door zone, because in tight urban streets that's where most of the cars travel."

Al

VC rules of the road my butt. Based on your definition of 'following the rules as other drivers of the road do' (monkey-see, monkey-do), we'd all be riding in the door zone, because in tight urban streets that's where most of the cars travel. Staying away from the door zone when possible and paying attention at all times ain't got nothing to do with your VC brand, it's just plain common sense that you feel the need to pilfer to give your VC brand some credibility.
Exactly right. Drivers of other vehicles operate in the door zone all the time because that is how roads are designed. The difference, of course, is that the consequences of being doored are potentially far more serious for bicyclists than they are for drivers of big honkin' utility trucks.

The VC-ist argument seems to be that bicycles are no different from other vehicles. If that's the case, then bicyclists should operate in the door zone because that's what drivers of other vechicles do. The simple truth is that VC-ists don't want to be treated as drivers of other vehicles; they want special consideration, even it they're too dishonest to admit it.

True story: Many years ago I was walking down main street in St. Charles, MO (where I worked at the time) just as a big honkin' utility truck was passing. A woman who had just parked her car opened her door at just the right moment. Wham! That door got slammed against the front of her car like you wouldn't believe (it was one of the funniest things I ever saw in my life). The driver of the ultility truck got out and started reading the woman in the car the riot act: "You ruined my perfect driving record."

Hey, man, I saw the whole thing -- totally her fault. I'd be happy to testify in court if you need a witness.

The woman got what she deserved. Her door was totally destroyed. As far as I could tell, there wasn't a scratch on the utility truck.

Bicycles don't have the mass of utility trucks despite what VC-ists might want you to believe.

The key difference is that drivers of cars are not the 'victims' when a door is opened in front of their car.

I disagree that you were not saying riding VC is like a car. You said if we follow what car drivers do we would be riding in door zones. "'following the rules as other drivers of the road do' (monkey-see, monkey-do), we'd all be riding in the door zone, because in tight urban streets that's where most of the cars travel."

Al

Monkey-see, monkey-do is HH's invention....and what I said looks pretty clear to me...where did I say VC is like a car, unless you take HH's little gem as doing so, in which case you need to take it up with him.

Exactly right. Drivers of other vehicles operate in the door zone all the time because that is how roads are designed. The difference, of course, is that the consequences of being doored are potentially far more serious for bicyclists than they are for drivers of big honkin' utility trucks.

The VC-ist argument seems to be that bicycles are no different from other vehicles. If that's the case, then bicyclists should operate in the door zone because that's what drivers of other vechicles do. The simple truth is that VC-ists don't want to be treated as drivers of other vehicles; they want special consideration, even it they're too dishonest to admit it.

Exactly - if drivers around here treated some of the more fundamentalist zealots...who's actual riding experience is dubious at best, like they treat other vehicles, they'd go crying home to mommy and would never ride again. Mommy, I got buzzed. Mommy the bad man hollered at me. Mommy, I had to stop, otherwise the mean old traffic would have made me ride in the door zone. Mommy, I was doing my DLLP peek-a-boo when some redneck nailed me on the noggin with a beer bottle...I have to buy a new helmet now! I think I'll start calling the ones I think fall into this category the 'dream riders' - they dream of a perfect utopia where they blend seamlessly in with other traffic and take warm showers with them at the end of the day...nobody gets mad, nobody gets hurt, everyone is equal, everyone follows the rules and everyone smiles while singing Kumbuya. Then they wake up, get in their cars and go to work.

Why are folks so eager to defend/create the door zone as a 'protected' space for cyclists?

Al

Riding in Atlanta, I'm sure you walk that fine line between traffic in your lane and parked cars, just as we do here in Cleveland or Akron, or as they do in NYC or just about any other congested urban business/downtown district. Not everyone has wide lanes and nice roads where they can choose to ride in the safest possible position...just as we can't drive in the safest possible position - we makes do with what we got to work with, compromising many of these neat little rules that aint so neat in reality. Tell ya one thing, riding in San Diego or around Phoenix is cake compared to most eastern cities.
Well, we have a mix here in Atlanta. Older streets downtown sometimes have lanes so narrow, a bus takes up 1 1/3 lanes. But most streets are more than adequate width for cycling.

When you're riding downtown, you get used to claiming your space.

Tell me about it (my measuring tape is in my jersey pocket as I type this).

I'm trying to get the city to reduce the parking lane widths from 8 to 7', the outside motor vehicle lane from 12' to 11', to allow for 6' bike lanes, and I had to made some confirming measurments today. Right now they have marks indicating they will painted the parking lanes at 8', the bike lanes at 4', and the outside traffic lane at 12'.

Current marks:

+ 12' lane + 4' bike lane + 8' parking |CURB|

I want:

+ 11' lane + 6' bike lane + 7' parking |CURB|

Here is a photo of my measurement of the marks showing 4' width for the bike lane.

43593

They were going to paint these things on Friday, but my emails and photos postponed the project. Hopefully they'll get it right.

Where?

Exactly right. Drivers of other vehicles operate in the door zone all the time because that is how roads are designed. The difference, of course, is that the consequences of being doored are potentially far more serious for bicyclists than they are for drivers of big honkin' utility trucks.

The VC-ist argument seems to be that bicycles are no different from other vehicles. If that's the case, then bicyclists should operate in the door zone because that's what drivers of other vechicles do. The simple truth is that VC-ists don't want to be treated as drivers of other vehicles; they want special consideration, even it they're too dishonest to admit it.
...
Bicycles don't have the mass of utility trucks despite what VC-ists might want you to believe.

Whoa. I expect this kind of nonsense from Chipcom, but this is a rare and uncharacteristic misunderstanding of VC from JRA.

No VC-ist has ever claimed that "bicycles are no different from other vehicles", or said or wrote anything that was intended to imply anything like that.

VC is and has always been based on the premise that the same rules apply to cyclists and drivers of all types of vehicles, subject to variance based on the specific and unique operational and physical characteristics of each type of vehicle.

Besides, as others have noted, when it comes to lane positioning on narrow streets with parking, the vehicular model for cyclists to follow is that set by motorcyclists and motor scooter riders, not Humvee drivers and utility truck drivers.

Where?
I stopped CCing you, but this is still all about Torrey Pines Road.

The latest news from today is good:

"We did get approval to re-mark the northern section, something we were told was not going to happen. We plan marked the 4 foot wide area - 5.5 feet wide in the NB direction and 6 feet wide in the SB direction. [The new] Field marks will show up after the rain."

The current field marks are at 8' and 12' from the curb, indicating the parking lane stripe will be at 8', and the bike lane stripe at 12' - creating a bike lane that is only 4' wide.

They will not agree to move the parking lane to 7', but have agree to move the bike lane stripe out to 13.5' on the NB side, and 14' on the SB side.

I've noticed that in the last 2 weeks since the repaving, everyone seems to be parking closer to the curb than usual. It's almost like the parking lane stripe, when it's there, makes them align to that, but when it's not, they just park against the curb. So I've suggested considering eliminating the parking lane stripe assuming that this will result in a wider effective bike lane than we would have with an parking lane stripe at 8'.

But I don't know if drivers are as careful to park against the curb if they feel "protected" by a bike lane stripe out there.

Whoa. I expect this kind of nonsense from Chipcom, but this is a rare and uncharacteristic misunderstanding of VC from JRA.

No VC-ist has ever claimed that "bicycles are no different from other vehicles", or said or wrote anything that was intended to imply anything like that.

VC is and has always been based on the premise that the same rules apply to cyclists and drivers of all types of vehicles, subject to variance based on the specific and unique operational and physical characteristics of each type of vehicle.

Besides, as others have noted, when it comes to lane positioning on narrow streets with parking, the vehicular model for cyclists to follow is that set by motorcyclists and motor scooter riders, not Humvee drivers and utility truck drivers.

So now you don't expect to be treated as other vehicles, as an equal user of the road? Also, it seems you are now the one making the claim that we should emulate a certain type of vehicle. Now it's 'be a motorcycle on narrow streets'. Gimme a break, your story changes as much as a soap opera plot.

JRA hit the nail on the head...you want to be treated as an equal, but receive special treatment...sounds like a 'policy of inferiority' to me.

No VC-ist has ever claimed that "bicycles are no different from other vehicles", or said or wrote anything that was intended to imply anything like that.

Do I smell a bit of inferiority complex here? how sad:cry:
Different = inferior, ask any white supremacist...

I stopped CCing you, but this is still all about Torrey Pines Road.

The latest news from today is good:

"We did get approval to re-mark the northern section, something we were told was not going to happen. We plan marked the 4 foot wide area - 5.5 feet wide in the NB direction and 6 feet wide in the SB direction. [The new] Field marks will show up after the rain."

The current field marks are at 8' and 12' from the curb, indicating the parking lane stripe will be at 8', and the bike lane stripe at 12' - creating a bike lane that is only 4' wide.

They will not agree to move the parking lane to 7', but have agree to move the bike lane stripe out to 13.5' on the NB side, and 14' on the SB side.

I've noticed that in the last 2 weeks since the repaving, everyone seems to be parking closer to the curb than usual. It's almost like the parking lane stripe, when it's there, makes them align to that, but when it's not, they just park against the curb. So I've suggested considering eliminating the parking lane stripe assuming that this will result in a wider effective bike lane than we would have with an parking lane stripe at 8'.

But I don't know if drivers are as careful to park against the curb if they feel "protected" by a bike lane stripe out there.

This is local... keep up the CC.

Anyway to mark or elminate the Door zone?

email me directly... also have not been on that stretch in a while... where exactly is it?

But I don't know if drivers are as careful to park against the curb if they feel "protected" by a bike lane stripe out there.
The psychology of the line placement has profound effects. On the one hand, if there is a driver side line, drivers will use that as the rubrik rather then the curb. Only the brazen will unabashedly park over the line and expect not to get keyed... on the other hand, while no line might encourage using the curb as the guide, it will remove all social pressure/guilt if the car is over where you might draw the "imaginary line".

Also, if a car is parked over the line, the cyclist will see it sooner/more easily, and may get the idea to move farther left sooner. I would go for the line, if I were choosing.

Holy crap! Just get chocolate AND vanilla!

So now you don't expect to be treated as other vehicles, as an equal user of the road? Also, it seems you are now the one making the claim that we should emulate a certain type of vehicle. Now it's 'be a motorcycle on narrow streets'. Gimme a break, your story changes as much as a soap opera plot.

JRA hit the nail on the head...you want to be treated as an equal, but receive special treatment...sounds like a 'policy of inferiority' to me.
What part of "Same rights, Same rules, Same roads" do you not understand?

When you read "Same rights, Same rules, Same roads" does it mean "Same weight, same width, same number of wheels, same power, same speed" to you?

In case you haven't noticed, there are operational and physical differences between men and women, just as there are between different types of vehicles and bicycles. Those operational and physical differences do not mean we have, or should have, unequal rights.

Vive la difference!

The psychology of the line placement has profound effects. On the one hand, if there is a driver side line, drivers will use that as the rubrik rather then the curb. Only the brazen will unabashedly park over the line and expect not to get keyed... on the other hand, while no line might encourage using the curb as the guide, it will remove all social pressure/guilt if the car is over where you might draw the "imaginary line".

Also, if a car is parked over the line, the cyclist will see it sooner/more easily, and may get the idea to move farther left sooner. I would go for the line, if I were choosing. Good points. Thanks.

I definitely agree if the choice is
a) bike lane stripe at 13' and parking lane stripe at 7' (==> 6' door zone bike lane) OR
b) bike lane stripe at 13' and no parking lane stripe

I'd go for (a) for the reasons you cited.

But the choice we apparently (I haven't totally given up) have is this:
a) bike lane stripe at 13' and parking lane stripe at 8' (==> 5' door zone bike lane) OR
b) bike lane stripe at 13' and no parking lane stripe

Given that choice, it's not as clear a is better than b.

What about bringing drivers to reality with images of people who lost a hand or arm while negligently opening a door on a car or truck's path? What about getting tougher on these offenders when they door a cyclist instead of a benign misdemeanor? It's always the cyclist's fault!

I have never been doored, but have been through several close calls (despite riding out of the DZ as much as possible) and have also got into some serious (only verbal and calm) explanations with the "doorers" that I can tell you have marked them with a very sorry facial expression.

We don't go around swinging our bikes in the air and knocking down people and I have never opened a door negligently on anyone's path. Why is it so much asking ?

Avoiding the door zone is not a matter of letting drivers off easy. I hope that no cyclist cares more about who's fault it is that they got doored than they care about their life or limbs. People are NEVER going to follow laws 100% no matter how much sense they make and you should be prepared for that. When preparing for an event which can occur without warning (such as a dooring) your best option is to avoid the situation altogether. If you do ride in the door zone, accept the fact that you might get doored and make sure that the situation you are in if you do get doored, won't leave you maimed or dead, e.g. going slowing while passing stopped traffic.

bike lane stripe at 13' and parking lane stripe at 8' (==> 5' door zone bike lane)
Actually, that doesn't sound too bad to me, perhaps even better then "bike lane stripe at 13' and parking lane stripe at 7' (==> 6' door zone bike lane)"

Think about it: it's a narrower bike lane farther from the curb. How much will it encourage cars to park away from the curb, and how much will it encourage cyclists to keep farther left? Heck, if you were starting from scratch, wouldn't it be best to have a narrower bike lane, a middle "no man's land/door zone" section, and a right-side parking section (example: 3ft bike lane, 3 ft door zone, 7ft parking)

Car widths in the real world are 5.8-6.1feet, with oversized vehicles of 6.6 feet.
From comparing that to a 7ft and 8ft parking zone, respectively, my intuition tells me that a stripe would encourage cars to justify to the stripe rather then the curb, however, I would think that there would be a point at which this would become rediculous - like a 6 foot car parking 2 feet away from the curb in an 8 foot zone. However I can definitely see that same car parking 1 foot away from the curb in a 7 ft zone (I know I personally might be inclined to). I would be interested to see what real world data shows.

Actually, that doesn't sound too bad to me, perhaps even better then "bike lane stripe at 13' and parking lane stripe at 7' (==> 6' door zone bike lane)"

Think about it: it's a narrower bike lane farther from the curb. How much will it encourage cars to park away from the curb, and how much will it encourage cyclists to keep farther left? Heck, if you were starting from scratch, wouldn't it be best to have a narrower bike lane, a middle "no man's land/door zone" section, and a right-side parking section (example: 3ft bike lane, 3 ft door zone, 7ft parking)

Car widths in the real world are 5.8-6.1feet, with oversized vehicles of 6.6 feet.
From comparing that to a 7ft and 8ft parking zone, respectively, my intuition tells me that a stripe would encourage cars to justify to the stripe rather then the curb, however, I would think that there would be a point at which this would become rediculous - like a 6 foot car parking 2 feet away from the curb in an 8 foot zone. However I can definitely see that same car parking 1 foot away from the curb in a 7 ft zone (I know I personally might be inclined to). I would be interested to see what real world data shows.
I can't make sense of what you're saying.

My premise is that cyclists, like all drivers, tend to track according to the stripe to their left. Therefore, if the bike lane stripe is at 13', most cyclists will track about 12.5' from the curb, give or take a foot or so, regardless of whether the parking lane stripe is at 7' or 8'.

At the same time, if drivers tend to "justify to the stripe" when they park, then it makes sense that they will tend to be about a foot further to the right with a 7' stripe than with an 8' stripe. So if the bike lane stripe is 13', then aren't cyclists better off with the parking lane stripe at 7' rather than at 8'? Why does 13'/8' sound better to you than 13'/7'?


ttttttttttt = traffic lane 11'
cc = typical position of 2' cyclist
bbbbb = 5' bike lane
bbbbbb = 6' bike lane
ppppppp = 7' bike lane
pppppppp = 8' bike lane
aaaaaa = typical 6' wide auto


5' bike lane @ 13'
8' parking lane

tttttttttttbbbbbpppppppp
-aaaaaa----------aaaaaa-
-aaaaaa-----cc---aaaaaa-
-aaaaaa-----cc---aaaaaa-
-aaaaaa-----cc---aaaaaa-
-aaaaaa-----cc---aaaaaa-
-aaaaaa-----cc---aaaaaa-
-aaaaaa----------aaaaaa-
-aaaaaa----------aaaaaa-
-aaaaaa----------aaaaaa-
-aaaaaa----------aaaaaa-

6' bike lane @ 13'
7' parking lane

tttttttttttbbbbbbppppppp
-aaaaaa-----------aaaaaa
-aaaaaa-----cc----aaaaaa
-aaaaaa-----cc----aaaaaa
-aaaaaa-----cc----aaaaaa
-aaaaaa-----cc----aaaaaa
-aaaaaa-----cc----aaaaaa
-aaaaaa-----------aaaaaa
-aaaaaa-----------aaaaaa
-aaaaaa-----------aaaaaa
-aaaaaa-----------aaaaaa

At the same time, if drivers tend to "justify to the stripe" when they park, then it makes sense that they will tend to be about a foot further to the right with a 7' stripe than with an 8' stripe.
I'm positing (based on intuition, not fact), that the "justify to the stripe" effect will only have be present in parking scenarios within "reasonable" parameters.

For example, when I park in an unstriped zone with my 5ft sedan (4dr Volvo 850), I tend to park 6-10" from the curb. When I park in a 7ft zone with my 5 ft car, striped, I tend to be less vigilant, and might park up to a foot away from the curb. But if I am parking in an 8ft zone in a 5ft car, there is no f'n way I am parking justified to the line - 3 feet from the curb. I am going back to parking 6-10" away from the curb.

Now californian's like bigger cars, and we can use 6 foot as the typical example (even though my 4dr is no Geo metro). I still have a hard time imagining everyone in their 6 foot cars parking 2 feet from the curb. I would think the fact that the line is 8ft away would cause them not to consider it their justifying line, while a 7ft away line would be "reasonable" as a justifying line.

I don't know what happens in the real world, though, and that's what counts. I'm just suggesting that the "justify effect" might not apply to an 8ft wide parking zone. And that a 5ft wide bike lane might encourage a cyclist to track farther left then a 6ft wide bike lane. But who knows? I'd love to see some real world data on this.

I would think the fact that the line is 8ft away would cause them not to consider it their justifying line, while a 7ft away line would be "reasonable" as a justifying line.
Oh!

Well, I have a picture on my camera phone of standard width cars parked in an 8' parking lane. Many are up against the curb, but some are out by the stripe.

I contend that whether the stripe is at 7' or 8', some significant number will be parked out near the stripe.

but some are out by the stripe.
How does it compare to what you see in 7ft zones?

How does it compare to what you see in 7ft zones?
It's the same.

The difference is that when there is a 7' stripe no one is more than 7' from the curb, and when there is an 8' stripe, some significant number are up to a foot further left than 7'.

There are plenty of large vehicles that won't fit parked inside a 7' strip, including step delivery vans, 'dually' pickup trucks and others. I believe parking laws usually say you need to be within 12 to 18 inches of the curb, and I doubt many motorists pay much attention to the outboard stripe. OTOH, I have gotten a parking ticket for not being lined up in the front-back demarkations.

There are plenty of large vehicles that won't fit parked inside a 7' strip, including step delivery vans, 'dually' pickup trucks and others. I believe parking laws usually say you need to be within 12 to 18 inches of the curb, and I doubt many motorists pay much attention to the outboard stripe. OTOH, I have gotten a parking ticket for not being lined up in the front-back demarkations.
Yes, but they make exceptions. This particular area is used exclusively by university commuters. Last I checked, most students weren't getting to school in their step delivery vans.

If there are commercial businesses, there are delivery vehicles around. And don't tell me there aren't any redneck students who drive duallies, they need to park somewhere, too.

Nothing commercial for at least a mile. I don't think a redneck driving a dually would be able to get admitted at UCSD.

a redneck driving a dually would be able to get admitted at UCSD.
It's screenplay time!!!!!

The difference is that when there is a 7' stripe no one is more than 7' from the curb, and when there is an 8' stripe, some significant number are up to a foot further left than 7'.
Then I suppose 7' would be preferable. Although I would consider it less important then the extra foot you got for the left side of the bike lane.

And judging by the photo on the other thread of the road in question, if this street had no bike lanes, I would say that I would probably bike just to the right of the leftmost mark (between intersections if I were riding slower then traffic). Now, if a car were parked close to the edge of the 8ft lane space (the right mark), I would probably choose ride a few inches to the left of the leftmost mark. And that would be part of the extra foot you got them to agree to, right? Then i'd say that as long as the cyclist sticks to the left side of the BL, he's got a good amount of room, 8ft parking or 7ft parking. Unless there's something with huge doors parked there...

The Pitch:

It's kind of "Joe Dirt" meets "Animal House" meets "Breaking Away"...

Starring David Spade reprising his "Joe Dirt" role?

Love interest and daughter of the college pres: scarlett Johannsen

Alec Baldwin as college pres.
Helmet head as righteous biker man who harrases Joe Dirt.

Alec Baldwin as college pres.
I help you get into the upper level shop classes, and this is the thanks I get? Why you ungrateful little pig...