Vehicular Cycling (VC) - Changing culture and door zone cycling

This picture is from the June 2007 issue of Bicycling magazine, p. 37.

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If you look carefully, you will see that it shows a "Bike Boulevard" with a cyclist riding in the door zone. If someone in that green VW Beetle suddenly opened the door, the cyclist would go down. Note how he is riding along the right edge of the big huge "Bike Boulevard" symbol.

I was just talking to a guy this weekend about yet another dooring incident. He had blood spurting out of his neck, lost over a liter and spent a few days in the hospital. If the injury had been slightly different, he would have been killed. Yet, when I suggested this is why it's important to stay out of the door zone, he immediately replied that he was out of the door zone. He started talking about how far he was from the cars, but stopped when I said five feet. Even after his crash, he had no idea he had to be that far to be safe. When I explained it to him he was genuinely surprised. He had never done the math (door opens 3.5', your right side is 1 foot to the left of your tire, and add 6" buffer/margin of error, and your tire must be at least five feet from parked cars). When most cyclists reading Bicycling look at this image, they will probably not think that the cyclist is too far right. It won't occur to them. And it won't occur to them when they themselves are riding that close to parked cars.

What can we do change bicycling culture to understand this better?

If someone in that green VW Beetle suddenly opened the door, the cyclist would go down.

What can we do change bicycling culture to understand this better?

Get your eyes examined.

Oh I know!

How about a campaign of ridicule, with phony psychological disorders and "syndromes"?

Or what about we just throw out all the cycling-specific infrastructure and see if that improves the lane positioning of ordinary cyclists?

Maybe we can thump 30-year-old bibles that could crack the average skull?

Or direct people to web sites full of shamelessly phony data and a kind of Internet crank-ish style.

Yeah. That ought to work.

Buddy, the way I see it, everything that can be done has already been done. Every piece of bicycle literature I have read addresses this. Come to think of it though, they never really get into distances, they just say something to the effect of "be far enough from the car that the door won't hit you if opened". Maybe you could write to the places that print this literature and have them be more specific.
But you're not going to reach every cyclist. Those of us that give as much thought as we (we = the BF community) do, already know how far to stay away to be safe. The rest of the people on bikes out there don't seem to have the inclination to learn the basic rules. that's why we have all seen nijas, wrong-wayers, scofflaws, etc.
But more power to you if you decide to ink every place that prints the literature.

Hey gang, let's pass a law! We can set some arbitrary distance, decided upon by a convention of safety nannies, as the door zone, as well as a safe passing zone, then require all motor vehicle manufacturers to have sensors that detect the proximity of bicycles - one setting for when parked, one for when moving. When moving, if the car comes to close to a bike, BLAMMO, we blow the driver's head off with a steering column mounted 12 gauge. When parked, if the sensor detects a cyclist within the door zone, BLAMMO, nail the cyclist up-side-the-head with a rubber bullet, teaching him/her a lesson he won't soon forget. As an added bonus, if the cyclist isn't wearing a helmet, the rubber bullet will probably cause death...aiding Darwin as no law ever could. Yeah, yeah, let's pass a law!

Buddy, the way I see it, everything that can be done has already been done. Every piece of bicycle literature I have read addresses this. Come to think of it though, they never really get into distances, they just say something to the effect of "be far enough from the car that the door won't hit you if opened". Maybe you could write to the places that print this literature and have them be more specific.
But you're not going to reach every cyclist. Those of us that give as much thought as we (we = the BF community) do, already know how far to stay away to be safe. The rest of the people on bikes out there don't seem to have the inclination to learn the basic rules. that's why we have all seen nijas, wrong-wayers, scofflaws, etc.
But more power to you if you decide to ink every place that prints the literature.
Even Hurst writes 3 1/2 feet. He doesn't explain that your tire needs to be tracking another foot to the left of that, 4 1/2 feet, to avoid the door zone, with no margin for error.

Oh I know!

How about a campaign of ridicule, with phony psychological disorders and "syndromes"?

Or what about we just throw out all the cycling-specific infrastructure and see if that improves the lane positioning of ordinary cyclists?

Maybe we can thump 30-year-old bibles that could crack the average skull?

Or direct people to web sites full of shamelessly phony data and a kind of Internet crank-ish style.

Yeah. That ought to work.
Is this supposed to be helpful?

Get your eyes examined.
Are you saying that cyclist is not in the door zone?

Even Hurst writes 3 1/2 feet. He doesn't explain that your tire needs to be tracking another foot to the left of that, 4 1/2 feet, to avoid the door zone, with no margin for error.
I've never read his book, nor anyones book that has been mentioned on here. Maybe someone should ask him to clarify because if he meant 3.5 feet from the car to the right most tip of the handlebar then his advice would seem sound.
But yeah, some people don't take things into consideration properly. Actually, there are alot of times that I ride in the door zone, though I'm riding with a very high alertness, or to use a word to resurrect an old thread, I'm riding with vigilence. ;)

This picture is from the June 2007 issue of Bicycling magazine, p. 37.

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If you look carefully, you will see that it shows a "Bike Boulevard" with a cyclist riding in the door zone. If someone in that green VW Beetle suddenly opened the door, the cyclist would go down. Note how he is riding along the right edge of the big huge "Bike Boulevard" symbol...
If you'll look closely, you're looking at the wrong car. The cyclist is adjascent to the car closer to the bike blvd sign than the other one. The cyclist is not in the door zone.

John

If you'll look closely, you're looking at the wrong car. The cyclist is adjascent to the car closer to the bike blvd sign than the other one. The cyclist is not in the door zone.

John
C'mon John, don't let the facts get in the way of advocacy/analysis....

Is this supposed to be helpful?
Are you?

If you'll look closely, you're looking at the wrong car. The cyclist is adjascent to the car closer to the bike blvd sign than the other one. The cyclist is not in the door zone.

John I'm not looking at the wrong car. Even if he's moving only 12 mph, that's 17 fps. He's maybe 10 feet behind the VW door. If it opens right now, he'll have about 1/2 a second to avoid it.

About how many feet do you think there are from the left side of the green Accord to the right side of the cyclist?

About how many feet do you think there are from the center yellow stripe to the right side of the small silver SUV?

C'mon John, don't let the facts get in the way of advocacy/analysis....
Snide remarks are not helpful.

Are you saying that cyclist is not in the door zone?

Looks like a good 5 feet to me - and next to the car behind your green vw...clean your glasses.

Are you?
I'm trying to be helpful.

Are you?

If you'll look closely, you're looking at the wrong car. The cyclist is adjascent to the car closer to the bike blvd sign than the other one. The cyclist is not in the door zone.


This is my interpretation of the image as well.

-Steve Goodridge (who develops forensic video technology for law enforcement applications, and has studied photogrammetry a bit)

-Steve Goodridge (who develops forensic video technology for law enforcement applications, and has studied photogrammetry a bit)

Now there's a man I'd like to have a beer with and chat for a while ;)

maybe a snappy catch phrase would help.
like:
"hit a door, die in Gore."
"ride in Door Zone, break your Head bone"
"doors Kill".

Goooooo Team!

Maybe some good fear-mongering would help -- perhaps a dooring death thread that we could bump up every time a cyclist gets hit by a drunk anywhere within a half a mile of a car door.

See, JRA is thinking like a good neocon now. Fear-mongering speeches and media stories is just the ticket to push through my new law noted above, now called the Patriotic Cycling Act. I love you guys...I'm thinking I'll make JRA the next president of the World Bank! :D

ooh, ooh, can I be minister of propaganda?

Looks like a good 5 feet to me - and next to the car behind your green vw...clean your glasses.

5 feet from what to what? The bike tire to the side of the Accord?

The entire lane is probably 12 feet from the yellow stripe to the side of the parked car. The BLVD symbol is probably about 8' wide (with about 2' of space on each side). To be 5 feet from the Accord, he would have to be a foot to the right of the center of the lane. He's way to the right of the that. I'd say his tire is no more than 3 feet from Accord.

I'm not looking at the wrong car. Even if he's moving only 12 mph, that's 17 fps. He's maybe 10 feet behind the VW door. If it opens right now, he'll have about 1/2 a second to avoid it.

About how many feet do you think there are from the left side of the green Accord to the right side of the cyclist?

About how many feet do you think there are from the center yellow stripe to the right side of the small silver SUV?
Helmet Head,

If you look closely, you'll see that the cyclist is riding on the Bike Blvd sign. He looks like he's about on the straight edge of the "D" in the sign. If you look at the near sign (opposite side, but close to the photographer), you'll see that the "D" is quite far into the middle of the road. The Volkswagon door could not get to this cyclist, even if it opened suddenly, as the cyclist is not in the door zone.

The place that is a problem is that trailer in the background, on the near side of the roadway. But how many people will open a trailer door and come out into the road? There are several other trailers parked along side the road in the background, but sticking quite far into the road.
John

"On the side by Five to stay alive".:D

"cars don't kill Cyclists, car doors kill Cyclists."

5 feet from what to what? The bike tire to the side of the Accord?

The entire lane is probably 12 feet from the yellow stripe to the side of the parked car. The BLVD symbol is probably about 8' wide (with about 2' of space on each side). To be 5 feet from the Accord, he would have to be a foot to the right of the center of the lane. He's way to the right of the that. I'd say his tire is no more than 3 feet from Accord.


I estimate his tires to be just over 4 feet from dark green car, and his right elbow to be just over 3 feet from the side of the dark green car, measured horizontally.

He could be farther than that, if he is closer to the camera than I assumed.

I estimate his tires to be just over 4 feet from dark green car, and his right elbow to be just over 3 feet from the side of the dark green car, measured horizontally.

He could be farther than that, if he is closer to the camera than I assumed. I think he's closer, but even with these numbers, and assuming the car doors open 3.5 feet, that puts him 6" into the door zone, with no margin for error.

I think he's closer, but even with these numbers, and assuming the car doors open 3.5 feet, that puts him 6" into the door zone, with no margin for error.

He might be. But, I tried to make a conservative estimate. I don't think he could be possibly be closer to the door than 3 feet. But, he could be farther.

I estimated his body to line up with the middle of the door. If he is actually lined up with the back of the car, he's around 4 feet from the car.

The difficulty with this is that range estimation accuracy decreases greatly at increased range. I have to estimate the slope of the roadway based on the crosswalk markings and estimate the camera tilt based on the street signs. There are only a couple of pixels of depth between the back of the car and the side of the car. It seems to be in the noise.

The mini-SUV is clearly past the crosswalk, and the stencil on which the cyclist's back tire might be riding is not far from the crosswalk. He looks shorter than the mini-SUV (probably farther away) but is much too big to be next to the Beetle. My horizontally projected lines from his rear wheel run close to the rear wheels of the dark green car, and maybe a bit farther away.

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He might be. But, I tried to make a conservative estimate. I don't think he could be possibly be closer to the door than 3 feet. But, he could be farther.

I estimated his body to line up with the middle of the door. If he is actually lined up with the back of the car, he's around 4 feet from the car.

The difficulty with this is that range estimation accuracy decreases greatly at increased range. I have to estimate the slope of the roadway based on the crosswalk markings and estimate the camera tilt based on the street signs. There are only a couple of pixels of depth between the back of the car and the side of the car. It seems to be in the noise.

The mini-SUV is clearly past the crosswalk, and the stencil on which the cyclist's back tire might be riding is not far from the crosswalk. He looks shorter than the mini-SUV (probably farther away) but is much too big to be next to the Beetle. My horizontally projected lines from his rear wheel run close to the rear wheels of the dark green car, and maybe a bit farther away.
Don't you have Bicycling at home? Check it out when you get a chance. The resolution is better on the actual image in the photograph in the magazine, and his being in the door zone seems more obvious, at least to me.

Give yourself four to avoid the door!

Give yourself five to avoid the dive!!

FTW :D

If you don't get dead you'll hear from Helmet Head!

Ok, so if you really want to change door zone cycling, let's consider who usually rides in the door zone. Probably people who are more or less cyclists not by choice. Possibly poor, maybe immigrant, maybe students or young people. They probably lack money for extras, so how about a blinkie or headlight give-away program. Give away a free light with a small, easy-to-read card with mostly graphic illustrations of some basic bicycling concepts. Stay out of the door zone. Avoid right hooks. Stay off the sidewalk. That sort of thing.

Edit: Helmet Head should NOT write this.

Edit: Helmet Head should NOT write this.

Agreed!

Ok, so if you really want to change door zone cycling, let's consider who usually rides in the door zone. Probably people who are more or less cyclists not by choice. Possibly poor, maybe immigrant, maybe students or young people. They probably lack money for extras, so how about a blinkie or headlight give-away program. Give away a free light with a small, easy-to-read card with mostly graphic illustrations of some basic bicycling concepts. Stay out of the door zone. Avoid right hooks. Stay off the sidewalk. That sort of thing.

Edit: Helmet Head should NOT write this.

Would it be better prepared by the doorzone bikelane cheerleading squad?

Oh, and another idea.

Recently some members of the bicycle coalition held an event where they fixed up people's bikes for whatever donations. It was a way to gauge whether a bike kitchen would work here. They held it at a location that serves the Latino population with various programs and things. The attendance was phenomenal. They didn't expect to be thronged, and they didn't expect that once they fixed a few bikes, those whose bikes were fixed would turn and help the others fix their bikes too. It was an amazing show of community. And most of it was poor, Spanish-speaking, and really really in need of bike repairs.

Anyway, an event like this would be a great place to hand out blinkies and headlights and information about how to ride safely.

Now, try to imagine. Let's take a throng of community-minded people with bicycles, enjoying a free workshop, helping each other. Now, try to imagine somebody telling them they have a psychological disorder of inferiority. Imagine somebody telling them that the facilities that ease their way every day should be avoided because they aren't conspicuous as a rat in a mayonnaise jar. Imagine that person proffering 600 page manuals on cycling to this audience as the "best" bicycling manual ever written. I think that person would get some raised eyebrows and people would walk away from the event with the feeling they should not return.

Would it be better prepared by the doorzone bikelane cheerleading squad?

Who's that? Cheerleaders? Where?

On a completely tangental line: did you know that in some places in Europe, to get the message out to motorists to not speed, topless women took to the streets holding signs? Perhaps we can do this for door zone bike lanes...

Oh, and another idea.

Recently some members of the bicycle coalition held an event where they fixed up people's bikes for whatever donations. It was a way to gauge whether a bike kitchen would work here. They held it at a location that serves the Latino population with various programs and things. The attendance was phenomenal. They didn't expect to be thronged, and they didn't expect that once they fixed a few bikes, those whose bikes were fixed would turn and help the others fix their bikes too. It was an amazing show of community. And most of it was poor, Spanish-speaking, and really really in need of bike repairs.

Anyway, an event like this would be a great place to hand out blinkies and headlights and information about how to ride safely.

Now, try to imagine. Let's take a throng of community-minded people with bicycles, enjoying a free workshop, helping each other. Now, try to imagine somebody telling them they have a psychological disorder of inferiority. Imagine somebody telling them that the facilities that ease their way every day should be avoided because they aren't conspicuous as a rat in a mayonnaise jar. Imagine that person proffering 600 page manuals on cycling to this audience as the "best" bicycling manual ever written. I think that person would get some raised eyebrows and people would walk away from the event with the feeling they should not return.

What an extravagently absurd fantasy. You must think that vehicular cyclists have no brains. And that, of course, condemns you and your thoughts.

Ok, so if you really want to change door zone cycling, let's consider who usually rides in the door zone.

The folks I see riding in DZ every morning (coming the other way) are well prepared commuters and on weekends club riders who are just following the leader. When I head to campus, its all students in the DZ.

Al

most people just don't think about it happening to them, that the motorist will be careful and see them or they will see the motorist opening the door in time to avoid it. and truth is, most of the time a parked car will have no one in it. I have never even seen someone fling open the door and endanger cyclists, ever. but I haven't been commuting very long, just a year.
but it's that one time that does it.
my conciousness has been raised because of whatI've read here and I generally stay out of the DZ.

most people just don't think about it happening to them, that the motorist will be careful and see them or they will see the motorist opening the door in time to avoid it. and truth is, most of the time a parked car will have no one in it.
:beer:

That's exactly right. Another measure of how rare it is, is I've been riding out of door zones for years, and not once has anyone flung upon a door that would have harmed had I been in the door zone. But I know it's only a matter of time.



I have never even seen someone fling open the door and endanger cyclists, ever. but I haven't been commuting very long, just a year.
but it's that one time that does it.

my conciousness has been raised because of whatI've read here and I generally stay out of the DZ. Good to hear.

I hope your consciousness has also been raised about how far you have to track your tire -- FIVE FEET-- from parked cars in order to keep your right side (one foot to the right of your tire) outside of the 3.5' door zone (adding a minimal 6" margin of safety/error).

Ideally a rider would never get closer than five feet from parked cars. In reality, urban riders are likely to find themselves in situations where squeezing closer to the DZ can be useful and 'reasonably safe' depending on situational awareness/speed. I'm willing to make that compromise at times. Keep in mind I was more than five feet from the doorhandles when the Mercedes came out of that alley. A foot or two difference in lateral position is not going to save the bacon of an inattentive rider passing a line of parked cars and trucks.

Robert

not once has anyone flung upon a door that would have harmed had I been in the door zone.
It happened to me once. I was deliberately riding in the door zone to filter at a red light (in my early adult riding days), I knew it was tricky, so I was watching my speed. I had plenty of room to stop when a guy flung his door open. But my squeeky front brake almost made him drop a load in his pants...

It should be added that anyone who is really interested in this stuff should get down on the ground with a ruler or tape and find out exactly how much is how much. You may find that your conception of what four feet looks like is significantly off the mark.

Now, try to imagine somebody telling them they have a psychological disorder of inferiority. Imagine somebody telling them that the facilities that ease their way every day should be avoided because they aren't conspicuous as a rat in a mayonnaise jar. Imagine that person proffering 600 page manuals on cycling to this audience as the "best" bicycling manual ever written. I think that person would get some raised eyebrows and people would walk away from the event with the feeling they should not return.

What an extravagently absurd fantasy. You must think that vehicular cyclists have no brains. And that, of course, condemns you and your thoughts.
:roflmao:

No need to imagine

What about bringing drivers to reality with images of people who lost a hand or arm while negligently opening a door on a car or truck's path? What about getting tougher on these offenders when they door a cyclist instead of a benign misdemeanor? It's always the cyclist's fault!

I have never been doored, but have been through several close calls (despite riding out of the DZ as much as possible) and have also got into some serious (only verbal and calm) explanations with the "doorers" that I can tell you have marked them with a very sorry facial expression.

We don't go around swinging our bikes in the air and knocking down people and I have never opened a door negligently on anyone's path. Why is it so much asking ?

Ideally a rider would never get closer than five feet from parked cars. In reality, urban riders are likely to find themselves in situations where squeezing closer to the DZ can be useful and 'reasonably safe' depending on situational awareness/speed. I'm willing to make that compromise at times. Keep in mind I was more than five feet from the doorhandles when the Mercedes came out of that alley. A foot or two difference in lateral position is not going to save the bacon of an inattentive rider passing a line of parked cars and trucks.

Robert
As I recall, you were near the edge of the bike lane, but still inside it. For you to be "more than five feet from the door handles" means the bike lane would have to be 6 feet wide or more. Is that the case?

As I recall, you were near the edge of the bike lane, but still inside it. For you to be "more than five feet from the door handles" means the bike lane would have to be 6 feet wide or more. Is that the case?

No it was a four and a halfer at the time, but there is a good foot-to-two feet between the right line and the doorhandles. I was traveling on or near the line. Closer to six feet from the doors than five I'd estimate.