Yesterday I was riding to the grocery store on the MUP - it's probably wide enough for 3 people to walk comfortably side by side, maybe 5 feet wide. Usually when I'm passing a walker I won't call out "on the left" if they seem to be going straight and paying attention. It just seems to cause more problems with people jumping into my path than it's worth.

At any rate I'm coming up behind a guy walking a dog. He seems to be alright, staying on the right and all, so I move to the left to pass him going maybe 10-15mph. I didn't declare myself at all. When I'm about 15' behind him his dog jumps right into my path. I'm able to barely skid to a stop with a little fishtailing, and no one was injured. He yelled something at me about how I should've called out "on your left" and deciding I didn't feel like arguing about it I just left.

I'm certainly willing to accept fault if it's deserved. And I know etiquette for this varies, but would I have been at fault here if I had taken out his dog?

Yesterday I was riding to the grocery store on the MUP - it's probably wide enough for 3 people to walk comfortably side by side, maybe 5 feet wide. Usually when I'm passing a walker I won't call out "on the left" if they seem to be going straight and paying attention. It just seems to cause more problems with people jumping into my path than it's worth.

At any rate I'm coming up behind a guy walking a dog. He seems to be alright, staying on the right and all, so I move to the left to pass him going maybe 10-15mph. I didn't declare myself at all. When I'm about 15' behind him his dog jumps right into my path. I'm able to barely skid to a stop with a little fishtailing, and no one was injured. He yelled something at me about how I should've called out "on your left" and deciding I didn't feel like arguing about it I just left.

I'm certainly willing to accept fault if it's deserved. And I know etiquette for this varies, but would I have been at fault here if I had taken out his dog? The rule of thumb is 8 mph on MUPs, especially when peds are around.
Also, peds (and their dogs) have the right of way over bicyclists. There are no other rules so far as I know.

I guess blame depends on the by-laws in your area.

In my area, the only law on MUPs is bikes must yeild to pedestrians. Doesn't matter what the situation is or how unreasonable the action by a pedestrian to the cyclist. It's a cyclists fault if there's a collision.

There was an attempt to write a dog on a leash is the responsiblity of the owner by-law, but I'm not sure if it was passed.

A big reason I stay away from paths is the way people act on them. Collisions are more likely because there there is no order and when they do happen, no compensation avalible for dangerous and contribuatory negligence. It's the wild west out there on MUPs.

get a bell

A big reason I stay away from paths is the way people act on them. Collisions are more likely because there there is no order and when they do happen, no compensation avalible for dangerous and contribuatory negligence. It's the wild west out there on MUPs.
Yep I try to avoid it as much as possible. I got cut off by a train so I jumped on the trail instead. Thanks for the responses guys.

Who is at fault legally and morally are two different things here.
I don't know about the 8mph thing that HH is talking about, unless that is just his rule of thumb.
Around here things are more clear.
Posted speed limits of 15mph on the MUP (10mph is some places).
Cyclists yield to peds.
Stay to your side of the path (there is a stripe down the middle).
Pet owners must remain control of their pets.

These rules are posted. If I was passing someone and didn't alert them and their dog crossed the yellow resulting in a collision, it is the dog owners fault. Granted is he got a lawyer I could be found contributory neglegent, but if it goes to court it is my word against his... and I DO have a bell. So it'd be possibly for me to argue that I easily alerted them, anyhow....

The universal rule is that the overtaker yields to the overtaken. This applies to pedestrians, bicycles, horses, oxcarts, cars, trucks, trains, ships, aircraft and spaceships. The only exceptions are busses, comets, asteroids and meteoroids.... they yield to no one.

The only exceptions are busses, comets, asteroids and meteoroids.... they yield to no one.
Except Chuck Norris!!

The rules at every trail entrance here clearly state that you have to have a bell, and that you must signal pedestrians. I stopped saying anything involving "left" long ago. What the people hear is the garbled first words "on your", then they realize someone is saying something, and they then clearly hear "left". Calling out loudly "passing" always works. They look back over their left shoulder.

get a bell

I agree with Randya - if you are going to ride on a MUP a bell is a must. I have a small, discrete black unit that I "bing" as I come up people and it works like a magic wand. It's way more better than calling out "on your left". It parts pedestrians like Moses parted the Red Sea (if you beleive that story).

Except Chuck Norris!!

His tears cure cancer. The only problem? Chuck Norris never cries...

I shift my gears back and forth, then coast, in order to make an unmistakable "bike" sound. Letting go of the brake levers is also helpful. I've used a bell, but I really don't want most people to think I am trying to signal them to get out of my way, especially when they are already to one side of the path. Slowing and clicking seems to work.

If they turn around, I coast by. If then don't, or they have a dog, I really slow to a crawl. I always assume a dog or anyone not looking at me will move in the worst direction at the worst time.

Slowing to almost walking speed every time I overtake a pedestrian increases my trip time, so I only take the popular recreational greenways for transportation purpuses when I have a lot of extra time.

The only exceptions are busses, comets, asteroids and meteoroids.... they yield to no one.

Yep, here comes my buss...Right on the lips. I ain't yielding to nobody!

Seriously, get a cowbell and strap it on your bike in such a way that it rings incessantly. Annoying yes, but the pedestrians will hear you coming and you won't have to do a think. That's what the mountain bikers do. I think it works great on the MUP.

How about an air horn? j/k
But the visual of people diving to the right to get out of the way is too funny!

I always yell 'on your left' or something to peds. Most don't hear me cuz they have ipods in their ears.

Yep, here comes my buss...Right on the lips. I ain't yielding to nobody!

Seriously, get a cowbell and strap it on your bike in such a way that it rings incessantly. Annoying yes, but the pedestrians will hear you coming and you won't have to do a think. That's what the mountain bikers do. I think it works great on the MUP.

Hey how about a balloon tied so the spokes rub against it... or a baseball card in the spokes... they both make cool motorcycle sounds.

I shift my gears back and forth, then coast, in order to make an unmistakable "bike" sound. Letting go of the brake levers is also helpful. I've used a bell, but I really don't want most people to think I am trying to signal them to get out of my way, especially when they are already to one side of the path. Slowing and clicking seems to work.

If they turn around, I coast by. If then don't, or they have a dog, I really slow to a crawl. I always assume a dog or anyone not looking at me will move in the worst direction at the worst time.

Slowing to almost walking speed every time I overtake a pedestrian increases my trip time, so I only take the popular recreational greenways for transportation purpuses when I have a lot of extra time.


I find shifting gears and clicking brake levers, although not as good as a bell, seems to work fine. I can't get a regular bell strap to go around my thick Salsa handlebar and sometimes I am essentially forced to use the MUP to get out of town for a decent road ride.

It parts pedestrians like Moses parted the Red Sea (if you beleive that story).
I don't believe that story, and that's the result that I occasionally get. :p However, it usually does work pretty well.

I go with the full sentence and speak clearly and slowly. I__am__passing__you__on__your__left. If you don't have enough time to say that sentence clearly and slowly, you are going way too fast for a MUP.

I go with the full sentence and speak clearly and slowly. I__am__passing__you__on__your__left. If you don't have enough time to say that sentence clearly and slowly, you are going way too fast for a MUP.

I used to use the rule of thumb of if htey are going straight, don't signal, then I was involved in a collision (no injuries). No rule of thumb -- always make a verbal signal (mine is "passing on your left"). Most folks on our MUP do a good job of just staying right. Only those brand new to the trail do a big jump to the side. The regular pedestrians usually give a little wave to acknowledge that they heard you.

get a bell


or a noisier bike....

Bell is good, it is the traditional and therefore recogized warning signs of a bicycle.
If your gonna holler, do it much sooner - the key is giving enough time to allow for the expected startle response. You know that many peds will hesitate, look over wrong shoulder, step the wrong way, etc. Plan for that response, if you don't you are being stubborn. If you can't start hollering far back enough, either you are going to fast or there are so many peds that the path is basicaly unusable.

My holller is a friendly 'Hello!"

Al

On the MUP I ride daily (Sammamish River Trail / Burke-Gilman Trail) these are the posted rules:

15mph speed limit
equestrian (where allowed) yield to cyclists
cyclists yield to peds
keep pets on leash
use voice or bell when passing

Peds have the right of way. Period.
Slow the heck down, announce yourself, and react to whatever THEY decide to do to get out of your way.

Sounds like a pain in the @ss, right? Stay off the MUP then. :)

If the walker has a dog, you should definitely let them be aware of your passing so they can tighten their grip on the dog. A bell or 'on your left' has always worked for me. I always get a 'thanks' even if they appear to be walking straight. I'd rather avoid any accident.

In MN, bells are not required and they are very rare. So is yelling "on your left." It's so rare, in fact, that when you either ring a bell or yell, people get offended and glare at you rather than move. I often have to get off the path while the people I rang my bell at (or yelled to) are staring right at me as I go by.

Anyway, here we have some trails with speed limits and some without. Some clearly state that dogs are allowed, some clearly state that no dogs are allowed. Some trails have a 6-foot lease rule, some have 10-foot.

I often find that people are wearing headphones and don't hear me anyway. So, I started just ringing the bell once farther away, and then once as I am passing. But, like I said, I usually get people who make eye contact but don't move anyway.

The other day I was on a bike-only path (the walking-only path was 5 or 6 feet to the right, separated by grass).

I was approaching a female with headphones on--she was walking on the clearly marked BIKE-only path. I rang my bell and called out, but she never moved. I rang and called out again and she still didn't move. I slowed down to her walking speed and started to pass her by going onto the grass on the left. At the last second, she walked right into my tire! Her headphones were so loud that I could hear them. She swore at me, so I pointed out the walking path and she actually moved over to it, then she swore at me again.

A few video examples of using a MUP/bridge:

A very young kid can be unpredictable. I was prepared and did stop:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFcKQF-3h8M

Here there are pedestrians, a friendly 'Hello' gets their attention:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayL_TqrlUPk

Here are two adult peds. First 'Hello' is not heard. 2nd is, with the expected 'unpredictable' result.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAiWhTvr030

After school there can be lots of kids. One can not count on them riding on the 'correct' side of path (although in this case they do)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqPtNtEh_Yo

Al

get a bell

+1

I just love the "cha-ching" of a bicycle bell. It instantly transforms me to quaint european streets, in the summertime, riding a nice old touring bike down to the market for a jug of 'vino, passing everyone, waving and going "cha-ching cha-ching" on my cute little bicycle bell. Is'nt that just sweet??

But over here in America its; "On your left, you friggen moron." "Cant you see I'm riding a bike here??..and keep your gawd**** dawg out of my way or I'll turn him into a Georgia license plate." "Christ, when are you people gonna learn I'm gonna ride my damn bike wherever the hell I want. If you wanna walk, then walk around the house, but stay off the MUP."

Seriously, slow way down when coming up on people, and use your cute little bicycle bell. Its a whole lot better than yelling "On your left", which in my opinion is an idiots game. Nothing makes you look more stupid than saying something like that.



~ say, friend....pass that jug and gimme a swoller o' that there 'vino stuff.

I just love the "cha-ching" of a bicycle bell. It instantly transforms me to quaint european streets, in the summertime, riding a nice old touring bike down to the market for a jug of 'vino, passing everyone, waving and going "cha-ching cha-ching" on my cute little bicycle bell. Is'nt that just sweet??

But over here in America its; "On your left, you friggen moron." "Cant you see I'm riding a bike here??..and keep your gawd**** dawg out of my way or I'll turn him into a Georgia license plate." "Christ, when are you people gonna learn I'm gonna ride my damn bike wherever the hell I want. If you wanna walk, then walk around the house, but stay off the MUP."

Seriously, slow way down when coming up on people, and use your cute little bicycle bell. Its a whole lot better than yelling "On your left", which in my opinion is an idiots game. Nothing makes you look more stupid than saying something like that.



~ say, friend....pass that jug and gimme a swoller o' that there 'vino stuff.


Huh?? How is speaking to a person and letting them know you are going to pass them in a specific location as to ensure their safety an "idiots game?"

Huh?? How is speaking to a person and letting them know you are going to pass them in a specific location as to ensure their safety an "idiots game?"


Simple friend, "On your left" is a known verbal warning among other cyclists. You approach pedestrians with that, they dont know what you mean. Its confusing to them. They'll be looking down on the pavement thinking a snake is coming out of the grass. Anything but you coming up behind them. Remember, they dont ride bikes. Some people cant grasp the meaning of that right away, and when you're saying it from a distance, to them its like you're muttering something. With us, we dont really have to catch it all, we know what's being said.

just use your cute little bicycle bell and go "cha-ching..cha-ching". Its universal to everyone. :)

If the walker has a dog, you should definitely let them be aware of your passing so they can tighten their grip on the dog. A bell or 'on your left' has always worked for me. I always get a 'thanks' even if they appear to be walking straight. I'd rather avoid any accident.

+1

Always warn a dog walker. Even if you get by clean, the dog will often react and cause the owner a struggle. I have bells on all my bikes and follow with an "on your left" if they are still oblivious.

Bent

get a bell
+1
As you approach a ped, ring it far enough in advance that you can guess at what the ped will do. Then assume that the ped will take two steps in the wrong direction at the wrong time. Dogs just mean you have to be even more careful.

If your bike doesn't have a bell, I don't think you belong on an MUP.

At a MUP near my college (actually, it goes INTO my college...,) there's nothing posted at all (at least on the two entrances I've used so far.)

An old map (http://www.columbusinline.com/plac2sk8/LickingCountybikepath.pdf) (PDF warning) of the MUP from 2003 that's posted online makes the following recommendations (not rules, mind you: )

USER/SAFETY RECOMMENDATIONS:
The Thomas J. Evans Foundation offers these safety recommendations for using the bike path:
Do not exceed 15 mph. Stay as near to the right side of the trail as is safe, except when passing another user. Pass others going in your direction on the left, give an audible signal well in advance of passing. Keep dogs on a leash. When entering or crossing a trail at intersections, yield to the traffic on the crossing road or trail. This is often the most dangerous point on the trail.

My first time on a MUP was on this trail yesterday... I think I did fairly well (keep in mind, I had not seen that map before, and hadn't seen any recommendations) - the only thing I failed at was sometimes the audible signal, which I plan on yelling out "on your left" now that I know that that's standard procedure. :o

Basically, I tried to use what's common sense on the road where cars are on the MUP, which seems like what these recommendations are aimed at.

Oh, and I did almost get mowed down by a recumbent rider who was going... looked like 25, and taking his half of the middle. :eek:

"On your left" is a known verbal warning among other cyclists. You approach pedestrians with that, they dont know what you mean. Its confusing to them. They'll be looking down on the pavement thinking a snake is coming out of the grass. Anything but you coming up behind them. Remember, they dont ride bikes. Some people cant grasp the meaning of that right away, and when you're saying it from a distance, to them its like you're muttering something.
That matches my experience as well. "On your left" has produced some unintended results (including the ped jumping to the left). Plus, to my ear, it just sounds so abrupt and bossy.

I find singing or whistling is another gentle way to let errant peds know I am coming up on them. If they move aside, I give a friendly thanks. If they don't hear me, or don't move aside, I slow down to a crawl, and toss out something neighborly, like, "Hey, guys, don't want to scare ya...I'm coming by here..."

Of course, I might cuss them out in my mind... ;-)

I try to cultivate the attitude that I have all the time in the world to be civil, if that's what it takes to keep the ride pleasant and safe for everyone concerned (including the peds).

However, the Invasion of the iPod People really challenges that patience. Still haven't figured out a solution to that one...

I was approaching a female with headphones on--she was walking on the clearly marked BIKE-only path. I rang my bell and called out, but she never moved. I rang and called out again and she still didn't move. I slowed down to her walking speed and started to pass her by going onto the grass on the left. At the last second, she walked right into my tire! Her headphones were so loud that I could hear them. She swore at me, so I pointed out the walking path and she actually moved over to it, then she swore at me again.

Time to get those air horns.

The rule of thumb is 8 mph on MUPs, especially when peds are around.

Your MUPs are strange. Mine have no speed limit.

I announce myself whenever coming up behind someone. My bell is probably one of my favorite, and most used, accessories. When people have dogs, I especially make sure to announce myself so they can reel their lovemuffin in.

A smile, wave, nod, and/or "Mornin'!" to them gets me a long way while passing, too. :)

My bikes with bells are great on the MUP, but sometimes I put my Campagnolo "Chrono" sewup wheelset on for a path ride. These rims make a loud squeal when brakes are applied , even at low speed! Talk about parting the red sea! The headphone wearers moved over & some walkers jumped clear off the path! But I did receive some "expletive deleted" comments as I rode on. :)

The rule of thumb is 8 mph on MUPs, especially when peds are around.
Also, peds (and their dogs) have the right of way over bicyclists. There are no other rules so far as I know.

Yeah well... being reasonable is also a big factor.

Cases of peds not being reasonable:

1 - Two women with strollers walking side by side and using up the whole path.
2 - Guy walking his dog on one side of the path while his dog is on the other side.
3 - Using the path to play sports (Baseball mostly)
4 - Volunteeringly getting in the way to make a bike stop because they have some personal vendetta.
5 - Kids on skateboards using the whole path to do tricks and stuff.
6 - People on rollerblades using up the whole path width to skate.

I don't mind sharing the MUP with peds and I understand they have priority, but they also have to be reasonable and share the path with others. Including cyclists.

I second a bell and it is useful, although Apple is making it less useful every year. Good luck getting one of the Pod-People to hear a lion roar much less a little ding-ding.

With regards to what would have happened had you struck the dog: NPR recently reported that at the moment, in every state in the US, if you kill someones pet you are only responsible for the value of that pet (usually estimated by finding the cost of a replacement), A grayer area is if you injure a pet, the commentator hypothesised that you could be held legally responsible for whatever hospital care the owner deems necessary; however there is absolutely no case law to back this up at the moment. So the punchline seems to be that unless the dog was some strangely expensive breeding stock then you would be better of killing it when you hit it. (NPRs story was dealing with the fallout of the tainted pet food)

Very loud:

http://hpvelotechnik.com/images/produkte/airzound3_komplett.jpg

This will give them a near heart attack.

At least they can't say: "I didn't hear you coming."

Pedestrians have the responsibility to follow the posted rules. In my area that means keeping dogs on a 6 foot leash and staying to the right of the path. If you are a cyclist who chooses to avoid Mups...fine. But don't ask those of us who like to ride the MUPs to give up our rights.


Posted rules say to call out when passing. So you give folks a chance to hear you coming. To be honest, sometimes it's better not to do it because folks panic and dive in front of you. The bottom line is that we have the same rights to be on these paths as walkers, dogwalkers, rollerbladers holding hands, Ipod wearing joggers etc.

or a noisier bike....

Harley?

I slow way the f down when I see a dog-walker ahead of me.

there's no telling what dogs will do, especially the more willful and independent-minded breeds out there, and especially when they're on those extendo-leashes.

I love dogs and I am NOT trying to hit one!

the Invasion of the iPod People

LMAO, I love this. I ride the MUPs here and it's usually okay in the mornings - not many people around at 8 am - but my GOD, the afternoon commute is getting scary as the weather improves. I have a bell (required by city law) but the number of people who are completely oblivious, or whose earbuds are leaking sound to the extent that *I* can hear *them* twenty feet away...

Tomorrow it's supposed to be really warm, so I will gird my loins for the parallel stroller phenomenon (usually not as bad on the less scenic path on the north riverbank).