Tandem Cycling - Tandem advice

Greetings from Australia.
We are two (nearly Senior) citizens and have already done a Km 4000 trip, camping, in Europe on our Dutch Gazelle bikes. We plan to go again in 2008, but this time on a tandem. Do we buy a Koga Miyata or a Thorn Adventure, or a Vittoria? Our tent this time will probably a Birdland. Any comments? We have enjoyed the site so far.

Being a city boy, who rides on smooth roads, stays in hotels and drinks red wine, I am a poor resource. I like the Koga Miyata. Why? It looks robust and I like the name. I used to ride a Miyata road bike. I could not find the Victoria. I suggest you provide links to the bikes that you like and the real experts in this gang can provide more meaningful comment. A general comment that I have is that bike fit is important for comfort and power production. The Koga seems to come in one size only.

Also, do you plan to buy the bike in Austrailia or Europe? You will have to deal with transportation and I assume that you are aware of couplers. Have a great trip next year.:)

Ik neem aan dat jullie van Nederlandse afkomst zijn?

FWIW: Koga Miyata makes two tandems, the Twin Traveller and the TwintySix. I feel the latter is much more suited for long-distance touring than the first one, especially since it is an unsuspended model.
Then again, there are tandems that are even better suited for this purpose like the Dutch Santos Dual Travel or the Cannondale Touring Tandem. By Vittoria, you probably meant a Vittori[B]o? And of course the Thorn Adventure is a wonderful tandem that can be made practically to measure.

Any of these tandems (with the possible exception of the TwinTraveller) will suit your needs for a long camping trip in Europe. There are even more options but that would only make the selection process even longer :rolleyes:

If you wish to know more about cycling in Europe and/or which tandem to buy, feel free to contact me at info@tandemclub.nl

My god, that's a bike that you have to put bags on just to cover it up. Form may follow function, beauty in the eye of the beholder and all that, but man, that's one ugly looking bike. :) (Sorry to any potential owners out there)

It may help to try and define your European touring tandem selection criteria: What is most important to you?

Perhaps something along these lines:
1. Cost (budget)
2. Fit (do you need to go down to millimeters or will a general fit in say one of four basic sizes do?)
3. Weight (mass)
4. Disc brakes ( for doing mountain passes)
5. Couplers

Good luck!

My god, that's a bike that you have to put bags on just to cover it up. Form may follow function, beauty in the eye of the beholder and all that, but man, that's one ugly looking bike. :) (Sorry to any potential owners out there)
Very subtly put, Jinker :rolleyes: It's not my alltime favourite either but then again, they have sold (my estimate) over a thousand of these bikes since the introduction in 2001. People buy it for the ride comfort which is indeed very high: the suspension does it's job very well. Last year they made it foldable to make transporting it on/in a car easier. And this is a solution to a problem that actually exists - not usual in marketing ;)
On the other hand: the Twin Traveller weighs about 65 (!) lbs and more and more potential owners find out that lighter bikes can be much more fun to ride. And indeed: beauty is in the eye of the beholder, many people are drawn to it because of it's "technical" looks. It's some sort of a crowd stopper and will always attract the most attention from 'non-tandemers' when parked in a group of Santanas, Comotions and Cannondales.
The best thing about it is that it made the general cycling public (at least over here in The Netherlands) aware of 'sports tandems'. Koga is a respected name over here and people obviously reasoned "When Koga makes a tandem it must be OK". Which in turn helped the already slowly growing tandem market. So credits to Koga for introducing this thing - let's say that the technical and esthetical issues are ...... ummmm ...... a matter of personal preference :D

As a Brit I shall put my hat in the ring for Thorn. Lots of satisfied customers here in the UK. You might want to have a look at http://www.tandem-club.org.uk/ and check their discussion boards too.

Thorn will do you a tandem with the mighty and contentious Rohloff hub too.

Thorn polarise people a bit in the UK because they are sometimes found to have a "we know better than you" attitude, particularly in regard to disc brakes. If you want discs, don't go to Thorn!

On the plus side, they have a proper 100-day full money back guarantee if you don't like the bike.

I don't have a Thorn so am not biased particularly, but they are definitely on my possibles list for the next tandem. Possibly with a Rohloff, too!

Good hunting,

Dave

As a Brit I shall put my hat in the ring for Thorn. Lots of satisfied customers here in the UK. You might want to have a look at http://www.tandem-club.org.uk/ and check their discussion boards too.

Thorn will do you a tandem with the mighty and contentious Rohloff hub too.

Thorn polarise people a bit in the UK because they are sometimes found to have a "we know better than you" attitude, particularly in regard to disc brakes. If you want discs, don't go to Thorn!

On the plus side, they have a proper 100-day full money back guarantee if you don't like the bike.

I don't have a Thorn so am not biased particularly, but they are definitely on my possibles list for the next tandem. Possibly with a Rohloff, too!

Good hunting,

Dave

My sentiments exactly and that is only from Trying to deal with them.

If Camping and lots of gear- Think of a BOB trailer. A darn sight easier to tow weight that to have it raise the Centre of gravity.

Thorn polarise people a bit in the UK because they are sometimes found to have a "we know better than you" attitude, particularly in regard to disc brakes. If you want discs, don't go to Thorn!
Hmmmmm ..... a bike company with a "we know better than you" attitude, where have I heard that before :D
Seems like every country has at least one of these :)

Very subtly put, Jinker :rolleyes: It's not my alltime favourite either but then again, they have sold (my estimate) over a thousand of these bikes since the introduction in 2001.
-<snip>-

Which in turn helped the already slowly growing tandem market. So credits to Koga for introducing this thing - let's say that the technical and esthetical issues are ...... ummmm ...... a matter of personal preference :D

Hey, if the bike works well, more power to them! I guess that for the way most people use bikes (tandem or single) whether the bike weighs 5 or 10 pounds more or less won't make a huge difference to them. If the bike meets their needs riding wise and has the features they want (in this case gadgets and cargo capacity, plus folding) then they'll probably be happy.

To me, though, I have to admit that part of the beauty of cycling is the efficiency of the machine, not just in terms of how it rolls down the road, but the elegance of design. The minimalist structure of a few relatively thin tubes that can carry you thousands of clicks down the road over many years if you give it just a little maintenance and TLC.

Anyway, all that being said, if a tandem team loves their bike and gets out there and actually rides it, that's a much nicer sight than any beautiful engineering masterpiece that remains unridden in a basement somewhere. ;)

Thanks everyone for all your advice.
This is not an easy decision - so it is all very helpful. Then just when you think you have decided something else comes up!!
We are enjoying Bike Forums immensely.
We'll keep you posted as to our choice.

Have seen the 65-lb Koga Miyata at the Interbike show, but never ridden it. Impressive looking!
Yes, it's is 'hefty' but has everything you coud possible put on a tandem: folding ability, racks, internal locking system, hidden wiring for lights, full suspension, fenders, pump, kickstand, etc
Once ou load up your tent/panniers, it will be over 100 lbs. for sure. Bit heavy to pedal up the Alps?
Sort of makes you want to re-think . . .

What I find a bit amazing about the Koga is that despite all that technology and mass, the racks and luggage are still unsuspended. If you're going camping with lots of kit that's an even worse thing. Not only does your luggage bounce around, stressing the racks and panniers so they have to be built more sturdily (true of most bikes), but critically the extra mass on the unsuspended parts reduces the performance of the suspension and thus the point of the bike. When you want the suspension to work and the wheel to lift eagerly over a bump, it has to lift not only the mass of the wheel and stays (?5kg) but also perhaps 20kg of luggage. That's not good engineering.

You'll hate me for saying this but Alex Moulton addressed this problem nearly 50 years ago, with integrated frame-supported racks on his fully suspended bicycles. The bikes themselves are not everyone's cup of tea but conceptually they are light years ahead of this Koga behemoth. But he doesn't make a tandem (god knows why), so I can recommend him no further in this discussion.

(http://alexmoulton.co.uk)

pip pip,

Dave

What I find a bit amazing about the Koga is that despite all that technology and mass, the racks and luggage are still unsuspended. If you're going camping with lots of kit that's an even worse thing. Not only does your luggage bounce around, stressing the racks and panniers so they have to be built more sturdily (true of most bikes), but critically the extra mass on the unsuspended parts reduces the performance of the suspension and thus the point of the bike. When you want the suspension to work and the wheel to lift eagerly over a bump, it has to lift not only the mass of the wheel and stays (?5kg) but also perhaps 20kg of luggage. That's not good engineering.

You'll hate me for saying this but Alex Moulton addressed this problem nearly 50 years ago, with integrated frame-supported racks on his fully suspended bicycles. The bikes themselves are not everyone's cup of tea but conceptually they are light years ahead of this Koga behemoth. But he doesn't make a tandem (god knows why), so I can recommend him no further in this discussion.

(http://alexmoulton.co.uk)

pip pip,

Dave
I agree fully on the disadvantages of unsuspended luggage on the Koga. They are one of these companies that combine good bikes with even better marketing :rolleyes:

And although strictly speaking it's not a Moulton tandem, this picture gives a clear view of what such a tandem would look like:



The complete story is on THIS SITE (http://www.coulouris.net/biking/moultons/APBtandem/APBtandem.html)