Road Cycling - clips?

While on a group ride on Saturday, a couple of folks commented to me that once I get clips I would be a really strong rider. Now my question is what difference will that make?

TIA

Do you mean pedal toe clips, or a clipless pedal system.
Compared to a plain platfrom pedal, both systems will greatly inprove your pedalling efficiency, allowing you to spin the pedals in a circle rather than pump them up and down.
Clipless pedals are more efficient than toe-clips, and are the choice for sport riding, but old-fashooned toe-clips still have their uses, since you are not limited in your choice of footwear.

Clipless pedals allow you to push (down or forward) or pull (up or back) through the entire pedalling cycle.
Pedaling in circles is much more efficient than just pushing down on the pedal.

Ask the "experts" at your LBS to show and explain it to you.
Try riding on a demo bike mounted on a trainer to experience it for yourself.

If you go clipless, practice riding, clipping, and unclipping in a grassy field (softer when you fall over) or on a trainer.

The Toe clips are basically useless (to me), they caught on the laces of shoes, couldnt get the tightness right, all they were good for was to do bunny hops on my MTB.

Clipless are fantastic, sure ive fallen off three times in a week while using them, but you do finally get used to them. Tell fellow riders to warn you when they are stopping, and pull out coming up to traffic lights etc. If i were to change anything, i would of got a MTB style pair of shoes, as i have already trashed a pair of cleats just from walking a short distance on them.

Uphill climbs and sprints are a hell of a lot more efficient and faster. Get them, enough said.

What club was your group ride with, just out of curiosity? Going clipless is probably the single most valuable upgrade you can make to a bike to increase your efficiency, therefore your speed and/or distance, over all other upgrades. I can't think of anything I would upgrade before I did that. It takes a little getting used to if you've been riding a while without them, but once you really learn to get the most out of circular pedaling it will become obvious how much stronger, faster and more efficient you are when clipped in. I promise you won't regret it.

Jeremy

Okay, so I have toe clips, and they are massively better than nothing at all. Will it REALLY make that big of a difference to go clipless? And then (augh!) which kind? Maybe that's a subject for a different thread.

1 - yes it will make a huge difference. I've just gotten back into riding seriously the last few months and I can tell you that it does in fact make a huge difference as you progress as a rider. You may not experience the benefits if you're riding just a few miles at 10-15 mph, but as you get better and go for longer rides at a significantly higher average speed, you will notice the difference and you'll reach that level of performance faster.

LOOK makes an excellent pedal for about $100, the A3.1 I think. I personally like the LOOK style because it give a much greater cleat surface on the pedal. You can find excellent shoes from Sidi and Specialized for about $100 as well. If you can afford it, I really like the LOOK CX-6 because of it's float and Q-factor adjustability and it's signficantly lighter. If those things aren't important to you at this point, than you'll do fine with their standard pedal.

As far as wearing your cleats out, you can get snap on covers for about $15. They're worth every penny. Not only does it save your cleats from wear, it provides better traction so you don't slip and bust your ass.

:D
As far as wearing your cleats out, you can get snap on covers for about $15. They're worth every penny. Not only does it save your cleats from wear, it provides better traction so you don't slip and bust your ass.

If only i knew this, ive worn away my look's in under a week, anyway im also in the market for new clipless pedals/shoes/cleats. I came across this at www.pricepoint.com.
They are mountain style, but at least you can walk in them , plus they resemble real shoes, not something aladdin would wear ;) .

http://pricepoint.com/media/661_Expert_KoreGass.jpg

661 Experts (http://pricepoint.com/media/661_Expert_KoreGass.jpg)

Ill order some soon, so if your still in the market then, give me a buzz to see what i think.
:D good luck

I used toe clips for over 30 years and they work about the same. This notion about your foot coming out while pedaling or you cannot circle pedal or the laces get stuck is nonsense. If you have the shoes made for toe clips they come with clips that clip on to the back of the pedal cage, you then tighten the strap down so the shoe does not pull out of the clip during circle pedaling.

Look guys, circle pedaling was discovered on the toe clip system not on the clipless system!

I prefer the clip style because I do not have to wear special shoes should I want to take a quick ride with the kids, nor do I have to install a platform onto the pedal to go riding with regular shoes. Just jump on the bike and go. Of course when I commute or ride for myself I use the clip shoe system.

Also the clip shoe is much more durable than clipless shoe, my shoes are 15 years old and the clip is not worn, and I have walked in them-howbeit very short distances, for longer distance I would just unbolt the clip.

Originally posted by froze
If you have the shoes made for toe clips they come with clips that clip on to the back of the pedal cage, you then tighten the strap down so the shoe does not pull out of the clip during circle pedaling.
And then your toes go to sleep. But, that's okay, it'll help keep you from noticing that your knee is hurting 'cause there's no float!
;)
I'm guessing SirJoel & his friends never even heard of clips & cleats. Personally, I think clipless pedals are the best cycling innovation (bar none) of the last 20 years.

This notion about your foot coming out while pedaling or you cannot circle pedal or the laces get stuck is nonsense

To be honest, it does happen to me, and saying i have tried all three types, i can safely say, steer away from the toe clips.

Just my opinion, you should try the two systems out, make up your own mind, good luck mate, all the best :beer:

You do need to take care with your choice of shoes with toe clips.
Modern sports shoes have all kinds of moulding and protrusions, and raised lacing systems which catch on clips. A 1970s, retro style shoes has a much cleaner profile and will work better. Even the lacing pattern is important. I feed my lowest holes from the top, so the lace crosses on the inside of the show.
I try to avoid heavy tread patterns. Shimano leisure shoes used to come with horizontal slots which fitted the edges of the pedal. OK if they are oriented correctly for you, but a pain in the knee if they are not. I avoid the cleat-style ridges or any engagement between pedal and shoe. You dont get such a good energy transfer, but exit is much swifter and safer in traffic.

My shoe of choice at the moment is Hi Tech Silver Shadow. It is a deeply uncool dinasaur of a running shoe, still in production since the 1970s, costs 1/3 of a label (nike/addidas) shoes, and lasts longer.

I want to make sure we're all talking about the same thing. To me, clips are the things that pretty much go on standard pedals where you slide your shoe in sort of a cage than tighten it down with the strap. As I've said before, I've just gotten back to biking seriously in the last few months. The hybrid I had started riding was my around town bike that I had kept that had clips (as described above) that I used until I got my new ride.

My own experience has been in the past and now, and some may find this backward, that a cleat system like LOOK or Shimano is safer than clips. I've found to get solid contact, you have to really wrench down the strap. Coming up to a light and having to reach down and take your eyes off where your going is not nearly as safe as just twisting your foot to the right or left. What about sudden stops. I can tell you that I've fallen because of a quick stop where I could not reach down or even yank my foot out in time. I have yet to fall with clipsless (pedals and cleats like LOOK for instance.) because I couldn't get my foot out.

I guess at this point I should clearify.... I did mean the clipless pedals.

Thanks for everyones input, now I guess I need to decide on what kind. I guess I should probably start a new thread for that.

...Which is why you should never cinch toeclip straps tight.

Originally posted by MichaelW
...Which is why you should never cinch toeclip straps tight.

yeah, I learned that hard way... a couple of times.

For a hybrid or comfort bike or casual bike, platforms will do. But on a road bike, I vote "clipless" ALL the way. First year I rode my road bike, I used "rat-traps". They were ok. I was ignorant of what could be better, so I rode them. I was not into stiff road shoes, protruding cleats, etc. Wanted to be able to hop off my bike at any destination and walk comfortably. Kept hearing: "go clipless, you'll never go back, etc". I put it off for over a year, mostly out of fear. FINALLY, I bit the bullet and got some Speedplay Frogs for my roadie. Using Shimano MTB shoes, I rode in them the first time and found heaven! I mean it. Lots of float, easy in and out, just more efficient riding. I've ridden in rat-traps since and boy my knees hurt afterward. In my experience, all the rave was right: once you go clipless you'll never look back! You really feel like you and the bike are truly One. It is awesome. (And I've never fallen, had no trouble from the get-go riding in them). Can't say enough positive about clipless.

Okay, so I have toe clips, and they are massively better than nothing at all. Will it REALLY make that big of a difference to go clipless? OK I'm going to state what may be obvious to some - but not to everyone. Clipless pedals will not (by themselves) make any performance improvement at all. After I had been riding for about a year, I went clipless. There was no improvement for a long time.

Here's the reason: The muscles you use to pull up on the pedals are different than the ones you use to push down. On me, these muscles were not yet developed so I was not using the clipless pedals differently than the platform pedals. I worked on improving this by pulling up forcefully on the pedals for as long as my muscles could take (not long at first). I also practiced spinning instead of mashing. Gradually I improved and so did my clipless results.

Now on a steep climb I occasionally realize that I am only pushing down on the pedals - when that happens I start cycling properly with an immediate increase in speed.

Of course the clipless pedals will not improve your performance if you don't make use of them, just like areobars won't improve your times if you don't use them. But making use of clipless pedals WILL provide an immediate benefit even if you are using muscles that aren't built up yet. When you start climbing a hill and you can only "push-push" you have to use the same tired muscles you've been using the whole ride, but with clipless you can use that different muscle group to pull you over the hill. I've experienced the immediate difference and I've watched many others do so as well.

Concerning toe cages, someone should mention that a toe cage without a platform to stand on will possibly cause problems with the plantar facia of the feet. Without something hard to stand on your arches will begin to ache and this could lead to some medical bills. I went to a fitness spin class for a while that only had the option for SPDs and I use LOOK so I had to use the toe-cage. I won't be doing that again. You also do get better energy transfer with cycling shoes which have a no-flex shank.

No flex shank is true with either style of pedal, so whats your point? I only ride very short distances in tennis shoes when riding with the clan so I don't have an issue with foot damage plus the cage style pedal has more of a platform then the modern pedals today.

Toes going to sleep is a problem with clip style? Really? Man, if guess I'm going to have to tell my riding buds to switch to clip style because they all experience that sensation with the clipless on long rides! but then so do I, but then so do our butts and hands etc.

And somehow you all got the belief you can't pull up with clip style, that is indeed odd, as I stated before circle style of pedaling was started with the clip on style which involved pulling the pedal. And I cinch the straps down tight enough to secure my foot to the pedal but not so tight I cannot jerk my foot out or so tight it cuts the blood off to me feet.

And I do have float by the way, I don't have a clue as too how much, probably not as much as some of the clipless styles, but mine I fine tuned so well anyway I don't have an issue with that.

PLEASE NOTE: I am not saying clip style is better than clipless; I'm just saying clip style works for me due to many reasons none of which involve racing which I no longer do. If I raced I would probably use clipless.

Froze, my point is just to let people who are new to toe cages and clipless systems know that riding in tennis shoes over a long ride could lead to foot damage. I was just trying to be informative. Personally though, I have never seen a pair of shoes designed for clipless pedal systems that you could bend like tennis shoes. I'm not saying they don't exist, but if they do I didn't know about it. I'm no expert on toe cages and I'm not saying they can't be used for circular pedaling, but having used both I would say that it is much easier to do with clipless. My shoes tend to want to pull out of the cages on the back side of my pedal stroke with cages when I'm really having to pedal hard.

You keep mentioning that circular pedaling was invented with toe clips and that is true. It is also true that bicycles were invented with a huge wheel in front and a tiny one in back, and without pneumatic tires. Can you ride it? Sure, but you probably won't like it as much as a Trek 1000. That is an extreme analogy, but my point is that when and how it was invented has little relevance to which system is more efficient and more comfortable today. Everybody has different preferences and I respect the fact that you like your toe clips. If I were commuting to work I'd probably use them too so I wouldn't have to mess with cycling shoes, but you asked what my point was so I thought I'd oblige.

Clipless systems add a layer of specialisation to the experience of riding which is not always necessary or desirable. I might not want $100 pedals on a winter or commuting bike, for example; I might not always want to ride in cycling shoes, I might choose to ride somewhere rocky, where expensive pedals are a bit of a luxury.

Suggestions that clipless pedals are a quantum leap in cycle ergonomics overstate the case. A lot of people are riding bikes that are a lot less comfortable than those ridden by the riders of the past, with excessively stiff frames, wheels, too narrow tyres and unyielding saddles. I've found that I ride further, faster when I am comfortable; the 'pedal system' I am using makes little or no contribution to this.