True confession or just good news

[ellenDSD]

Hey ya'll! I have a confession to make. But I hesitate to call it a "confession" as I'm not ashamed of myself. Semantics... Anyway...

I bought a used Honda Metropolitan II (moped)! It's orange and white; Basically looks like a Cream Sickle on wheels - very cute! The Met's purpose in life is to provide an alternative for when I don't have time to bike or for when I just don't want to pedal or perhaps it's real hot and I don't want to arrive at my destination in full drip mode.

The awesome thing is that my car has been sitting untouched for days. The Met has been put into service twice and my bike certainly isn't gathering any dust. It's all too much fun.

Anybody else enjoy a little two-wheeled motorized conveyance sometimes?

[gerv]

My wife and I have admitted that mopeds might be a lot of fun. However, I have several objections. Mostly, things like the noise and the fact that they aren't much a of solution to the ecological crisis we are undergoing currently. But a major issue is also that if I were mopeding (is that a word?) instead of cycling, I wouldn't be getting any exercise and my weight would probably go up.

[cosmo starr]

i think it is a fine alturnative when necessary.

[wahoonc]

I have a couple of vintage scooters. One is a Honda CH125 which is a water cooled single cylinder 4 stroke. Very quiet and clean burning. The other is an older Vespa 200 which is a bit loud and a 2 stroke. The Honda gets around 100mpg and will run about 60mph flat out. Great for trips that are a bit long for the bicycle. I also have a couple of Honda Trail 70's that I have been working on for someone else. They can be licensed for road use, but I am not too sure I would want to ride on in traffic they are hard to see.

Aaron:)

[bragi]

My wife and I have admitted that mopeds might be a lot of fun. However, I have several objections. Mostly, things like the noise and the fact that they aren't much a of solution to the ecological crisis we are undergoing currently. But a major issue is also that if I were mopeding (is that a word?) instead of cycling, I wouldn't be getting any exercise and my weight would probably go up.

I don't totally approve of them myself, but I'll take them over cars hands-down. They use fewer resources to produce, and they get insanely good mpg, and therefore produce less CO2. Let's face it, most people are not willing to give up their car for a bike under any but the most extreme circumstances. However, they may be willing to give up their car for a moped or scooter, if fuel gets pricey enough, and if enough people make that switch, we may not have to endure the worst-case nightmare scenarios that involve peak oil and full-bore global warming hitting us at the exact same time...

[manual_overide]

Except for all the mopeds out there powered by gas/oil mix burning, smelly, smoky 2 cycle engines.

[ellenDSD]

Except for all the mopeds out there powered by gas/oil mix burning, smelly, smoky 2 cycle engines.

Yeah, those are icky and I wouldn't have one. Mine is practically powerless, very good mpg and clean burning. I just love it. Yesterday, I had 4 errands to run - post office, store, drug store, bank... did it all on the Met in just under an hour and had a blast doing it.

[cerewa]

If only Honda would design these things (mo-peds) with the sorts of clean-air technology used on cars-- fuel injection and maybe catalytic converter. In the USA there hasn't been a single new car or truck model that didn't have fuel injection and catalytic converter in years, because that's the only way to pass car/truck emissions standards. So, per-gallon-burned, mopeds pollute a lot more than cars and trucks although they burn far fewer gallons.

[bhtooefr]

FWIW, Aprilia has had direct fuel injection since 2000 on their mopeds.

(Direct gasoline fuel injection on cars came out in 1955 on the Mercedes-Benz 300SL, and the 1974 Honda Civic, which was CARBURETED direct injection, if you will, was the only car without a catalytic converter to meet EPA clean air standards, but hasn't really become popular until last year.)

[bragi]

Yeah, those are icky and I wouldn't have one. Mine is practically powerless, very good mpg and clean burning. I just love it. Yesterday, I had 4 errands to run - post office, store, drug store, bank... did it all on the Met in just under an hour and had a blast doing it.

I don't mean to curb your enthusiasm -well, yes, I do. I'm glad you have a moped, which is far, far better than a car, but, for trips under 5 miles, one way, bikes are just as good, and they use NO fuel at all. Last weekend, I also had several errands to run, including groceries, I did them all on my Diamondback, and I did them all in less than an hour, just like you. Nyah, nyah. (I think it says in the Koran or the Bible, or somewhere, that the apostate can expect no mercy. :p)

[heywood]

I had a two strok vespa (oil/gas mix) back in the early '80's and loved it.. Was a really ****ty polluter though. Definatly not environmentaly friendly but really fun...

Electric bike is probably the way to go if you want power, outside of that i'd go for a decent motorcycle which I can't ride anymore due to my tendency to become a little speed freaky.. :(

[ellenDSD]

I don't mean to curb your enthusiasm -well, yes, I do. I'm glad you have a moped, which is far, far better than a car, but, for trips under 5 miles, one way, bikes are just as good, and they use NO fuel at all. Last weekend, I also had several errands to run, including groceries, I did them all on my Diamondback, and I did them all in less than an hour, just like you. Nyah, nyah. (I think it says in the Koran or the Bible, or somewhere, that the apostate can expect no mercy. :p)

No worries :) My Breezer is still the ULTIMATE!

[Robert C]

I also ride a Yamaha 650 V-Star that I use for trips that are too far for the icycle. I meets modern emission rules but motorcycle emission rules are getting even stricter. As a result nearly all motorcycles are going fuel injaction. I expect that when I return to the States (assuming I find a job) I will get a BMW 650. They are powerfull to make the long runs down the interstate when necessarry and still get about 60-70mpg (owners report 80mpg if they keep it to about 45mph).

Due to the effective elimination of most mopeds and various "safety" rules, small motorcycles as seen in the rest of the world are almost never seen in the US. Of regular street bikes, there are only 4 models under 400cc sold (at least the last time I checked). I hav ewrittne many long rants on this topic; but, the result has been beginners starting on 600cc race bikes with predictiable results.

[EnigManiac]

Personally, I am looking for a scooter for trips that I can't currently undertake on my bike, but if the scooter isn't electric and able to do 200-300 km/charge, I won't touch it. Mopeds and scooters that use fossil fuels are almost as bad as cars and while they may get excellent gas mileage and be less intrusive on the road, I'd feel like a guilty hypocrite every time I rode it. Just my personal take.

[bhtooefr]

Well, there are people who have retrofitted 250cc diesel engines to motorcycles, and then run them on biodiesel... Alternately, I guess you could jet the carb in a gasoline moped or scooter to run on ethanol and make your own (the ATF can give you a permit for making pure ethanol (better known as "moonshine") for fuel purposes.)

[maddyfish]

If only Honda would design these things (mo-peds) with the sorts of clean-air technology used on cars-- fuel injection and maybe catalytic converter. In the USA there hasn't been a single new car or truck model that didn't have fuel injection and catalytic converter in years, because that's the only way to pass car/truck emissions standards. So, per-gallon-burned, mopeds pollute a lot more than cars and trucks although they burn far fewer gallons.
The they'd cost a fortune and nobody would buy one.

[ellenDSD]

A guilty hypocrite? JeeZ!

I looked at some electric models and honestly, for the price and the range, they just weren't adequate for my needs. And yeah, I would imagine that my little scooter doesn't have the technology to burn as clean as it can - I know I am polluting a little bit. I had to consider how often I would ride it versus my bike versus my car. But I read all the time about people who enjoy tinkering with their stuff to make it more eco-friendly and I have an engineer husband who likes to "play". Don't be surprised if one of these days you read on the forum about how we modified the moped! Ha Ha

[wahoonc]

The they'd cost a fortune and nobody would buy one.

Honda already has designed some clean air technology into them. I have a 1984 Honda Elite CH125 that met CALIFORNIA clean air standards for that year for motorcycles. It has a crank case breather system as well as a special muffler. It was also water cooled, which allows it to run cleaner by better control of the engine operating temps. Honda is the one to look to for cutting edge technology when it comes to pollution control. Remember the 1979 CVCC ? It met proposed clean air standards without a catalytic converter when the US manufacturers were claiming it wasn't possible to meet those standards by any means.

Aaron:)

[bmclaughlin807]

The they'd cost a fortune and nobody would buy one.


They're starting to mandate catalytic converter's on LAWN MOWERS... They'll be on all mopeds before you know it.

[cerewa]

They're starting to mandate catalytic converter's on LAWN MOWERS... They'll be on all mopeds before you know it.

New York times article on catalytic converters and lawnmowers. (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/24/us/24lawn.html?ex=1303531200&en=5754342ecd705a4a&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss) (read it before they take it down from the website.) Manufacturers think that a catalytic converter will add $25 to the price of a $180 lawnmower.

People will still buy the lawnmowers if they and everybody else has to shell out the extra $25 for a catalytic converter equipped mower. Even though they have the alternative of using a human powered mower.

[sykerocker]

I don't mean to curb your enthusiasm -well, yes, I do. I'm glad you have a moped, which is far, far better than a car, but, for trips under 5 miles, one way, bikes are just as good, and they use NO fuel at all. Last weekend, I also had several errands to run, including groceries, I did them all on my Diamondback, and I did them all in less than an hour, just like you. Nyah, nyah. (I think it says in the Koran or the Bible, or somewhere, that the apostate can expect no mercy. :p)
Terrific. You're fast becoming an eco-saint, and are no doubt proud of your effort. Hopefully the hair shirt fits you well enough, now just remember that true saints always kept their hair shirt hidden under their regular clothes. Sainthood is best realized without public acclaim.:D

Try factoring in human nature. Or, should I say, someone ELSE'S human nature. As in, maybe their ideas on priorities are slightly different, and it's more important to get on with life in general than to put first priority on proving a political and environmental point. Maybe there are days when one feels a bit lazy, or fatigued, or maybe has a need to get somewhere at an average speed a bit faster than 15mph, or be dressed more formally than is usually comfortable on a bicycle, or possibly having to arrive somewhere not smelling sweaty and hot from physical exertion. In any of the aforementioned, a bicycles not a terribly good solution.

Contrary to what I've read in a lot of these posts, bicycles are not necessarily THE perfect solution to the transportation problem. One of the solutions, yes, but hardly the only answer. And yeah, that above quote sounded awful familiar, as it came out of my own mouth . . . . 35 years ago, as I put myself through college as a mechanic for a Schwinn/Raleigh shop, and rode a Raleigh Sports for virtually all my transportation. It worked nicely, as long as I lived in the city, was young, and more determined to prove a point than to accomplish much of anything practical.

Unfortunately for the above, I like living in the country, having 10 acres of woods for a yard, and listening to the neighbor's cows every morning as I leave for my 10-miles-while-the-coffee-brews workout loop. Which means, I live 22 miles from work. And yes, no doubt YOU could do that on a bicycle, and brag about it. Well, so could I, assuming I like the idea of 1.5-2 hours commuting into work (downhill) and 3 hours coming home (uphill). My time's too valuable to spend 4-5 hours commuting each day. I occasionally do it when I work Saturdays (0900-1500) since I'm guaranteed daylight for the entire trip home, but I can think of better ways.

Given the distance, my daily preference is a motorcycle: Of course, a Harley Davidson (see signature line, it'll explain a lot, and yeah, I'm one of those guys). And a 90cc Honda, good for 100mpg, but unfortunately older than most of you here on the list, so I'd really not push an antique motorcycle into daily use. And there's a pickup truck (22-24mpg) for bad weather (really bad weather, as in wet roads and below 32F), hauling the trash every two weeks to the country pickup/recycling station, and other major load carrying moments - which there are more than a couple of year. Remember, I live in the country. Self-sufficiency helps.

I twigged onto this thread initially because of the mention of a Honda Metropolitan. I work for Richmond's biggest Honda dealer (parts department), and have ridden at one time or another every scooter Honda makes short of the Silver Wing. Love the bloody things, but again at 22 miles each way a motorcycle is a bit more effortless, and safer on US33 traffic. The Metro is nice, but for the money I'd rather go with the Elite. 90cc, almost as good on gas as the Metro, but it'll do 45mph easily which could keep you from being run over during rush hour. I've ridden Metro's down Broad Street during rush hour, which I find frightening. I feel safer on my Raleigh Seneca (kept in the back room at work for lunch time errands).

Bottom line: If you really believe that a bicycle is the only answer, you're either living a life deliberately geographically truncated to fit within your religion, or you're badly kidding yourself - and wasting a lot of transit time in the effort to stay environmentally pure. There's more than a few transportation solutions, and the wise person picks and chooses depending on distance, need, and (not incidentally) physical ability at the moment. No, nothing's as environmentally pure as a bicycle (take that back - walking uses less natural resources, but it's sloooooooow), but there are other options that are environmentally sustainable, depending on need and frequency of use.

High horses make uncomfortable rides, by the way.:rolleyes:

[bragi]

Terrific. You're fast becoming an eco-saint, and are no doubt proud of your effort. Hopefully the hair shirt fits you well enough, now just remember that true saints always kept their hair shirt hidden under their regular clothes. Sainthood is best realized without public acclaim.:D

Try factoring in human nature. Or, should I say, someone ELSE'S human nature. As in, maybe their ideas on priorities are slightly different, and it's more important to get on with life in general than to put first priority on proving a political and environmental point. Maybe there are days when one feels a bit lazy, or fatigued, or maybe has a need to get somewhere at an average speed a bit faster than 15mph, or be dressed more formally than is usually comfortable on a bicycle, or possibly having to arrive somewhere not smelling sweaty and hot from physical exertion. In any of the aforementioned, a bicycles not a terribly good solution.

Contrary to what I've read in a lot of these posts, bicycles are not necessarily THE perfect solution to the transportation problem. One of the solutions, yes, but hardly the only answer. And yeah, that above quote sounded awful familiar, as it came out of my own mouth . . . . 35 years ago, as I put myself through college as a mechanic for a Schwinn/Raleigh shop, and rode a Raleigh Sports for virtually all my transportation. It worked nicely, as long as I lived in the city, was young, and more determined to prove a point than to accomplish much of anything practical.

Unfortunately for the above, I like living in the country, having 10 acres of woods for a yard, and listening to the neighbor's cows every morning as I leave for my 10-miles-while-the-coffee-brews workout loop. Which means, I live 22 miles from work. And yes, no doubt YOU could do that on a bicycle, and brag about it. Well, so could I, assuming I like the idea of 1.5-2 hours commuting into work (downhill) and 3 hours coming home (uphill). My time's too valuable to spend 4-5 hours commuting each day. I occasionally do it when I work Saturdays (0900-1500) since I'm guaranteed daylight for the entire trip home, but I can think of better ways.

Given the distance, my daily preference is a motorcycle: Of course, a Harley Davidson (see signature line, it'll explain a lot, and yeah, I'm one of those guys). And a 90cc Honda, good for 100mpg, but unfortunately older than most of you here on the list, so I'd really not push an antique motorcycle into daily use. And there's a pickup truck (22-24mpg) for bad weather (really bad weather, as in wet roads and below 32F), hauling the trash every two weeks to the country pickup/recycling station, and other major load carrying moments - which there are more than a couple of year. Remember, I live in the country. Self-sufficiency helps.

I twigged onto this thread initially because of the mention of a Honda Metropolitan. I work for Richmond's biggest Honda dealer (parts department), and have ridden at one time or another every scooter Honda makes short of the Silver Wing. Love the bloody things, but again at 22 miles each way a motorcycle is a bit more effortless, and safer on US33 traffic. The Metro is nice, but for the money I'd rather go with the Elite. 90cc, almost as good on gas as the Metro, but it'll do 45mph easily which could keep you from being run over during rush hour. I've ridden Metro's down Broad Street during rush hour, which I find frightening. I feel safer on my Raleigh Seneca (kept in the back room at work for lunch time errands).

Bottom line: If you really believe that a bicycle is the only answer, you're either living a life deliberately geographically truncated to fit within your religion, or you're badly kidding yourself - and wasting a lot of transit time in the effort to stay environmentally pure. There's more than a few transportation solutions, and the wise person picks and chooses depending on distance, need, and (not incidentally) physical ability at the moment. No, nothing's as environmentally pure as a bicycle (take that back - walking uses less natural resources, but it's sloooooooow), but there are other options that are environmentally sustainable, depending on need and frequency of use.

High horses make uncomfortable rides, by the way.:rolleyes:

I was simply ribbing the OP, as she apparently understood herself. In an earlier post on this very thread, I mentioned that I thought buying a moped wasn't such a bad thing. I think maybe it's you that's on a high horse. If you want to live in the country and drive an SUV and use power tools, go ahead and do it. But don't go to a car-free forum, skim a post without really understanding its intent, and attack its author simply because he chose a lifestyle you don't share. (And let's not turn this into a pissing match; if that's what you're into, visit the advocacy and safety forum.)

[Wogsterca]

Bottom line: If you really believe that a bicycle is the only answer, you're either living a life deliberately geographically truncated to fit within your religion, or you're badly kidding yourself - and wasting a lot of transit time in the effort to stay environmentally pure. There's more than a few transportation solutions, and the wise person picks and chooses depending on distance, need, and (not incidentally) physical ability at the moment. No, nothing's as environmentally pure as a bicycle (take that back - walking uses less natural resources, but it's sloooooooow), but there are other options that are environmentally sustainable, depending on need and frequency of use.

Lifestyle is a personal choice, if someone wants to live within walking/biking distance of everything, that is their choice, there are other transportation options, for example a moped or scooter (electric or with a small engine -- about the only place where ethanol would be remotely sustainable), adds to your range, transit also adds to your range. Good trip planning also helps, nothing to say you can't bike to a place that is 20 miles away, if you know you have the time to go there. This is more then acceptable, if you want some exersize, heck give me 3 hours on the road, versus 10 minutes on a stationary bike at the gym... I need a floor pump, I can get one at a bike shop 8km away, or at another shop that is 20km away, but has them for half the price, so maybe that's where I will go. I'm not in a really big hurry for it, so maybe Friday after work or next Saturday, I'll take the time to bike down....

Now someone else, chooses to live a long distance from work, and chooses to live where there is poor or non-existant transit, and chooses to purchase a large personal motor vehicle for that trip, they made those choices, and if conditions mean that the price of fuel for said vehicle increases significantly, then they need to revisit those choices they made. They should not however, expect their country to spend a trillion dollars a year, and lose hundreds if not thousands of lives, on a war it can't win, to try and secure a cheap and ready supply of fuel for their vehicle choice.

[ellenDSD]

Oh! Lets not argue :)

By the way, I appreciate what sykerocker said about a more powerful motor. I did consider that. But the Met is just for in town trips and it's plenty powerful for that. And in SC, anything higher than 50cc requires a moped/motorcycle license and probably insurance as well. I don't want to have to fool with any of that.

Ya know, last night I remembered back from when I stilled lived in Texas, there was a movement to convert your car/truck to natural gas and a few gas stations had 'pumps' for the stuff. I can't remember what the purpose was - maybe natural gas was really cheap then or something. Anyway, I remember that you could get a kit to convert your car. My point is that maybe someday, some genius will come up with a kit to convert the Met to an electric. That'd be cool, huh?!

[bhtooefr]

Natural gas has cleaner emissions, and IIRC, it IS cheap, but it's still a petroleum product.

Take a look at the Honda Civic GX, though, for a car that runs on it.