Classic & Vintage - favorite vintage derailleurs

I've dipped my toe into the murky waters of vintage derailleurs, and before I plunge right in, I'd like to know what more experienced swimmers think.

So what's on your short list of older, cool, beautiful, bombproof, and most importantly, GOOD derailleurs?

I've got a long cage Shimano LX on my touring bike - it works fine. I've also got a Nuovo Record and a cool CdA that are waiting for bikes.

I've always been fond of good-looking RDs that also shift really well, so despite how nice Campy NR stuff looks on my bikes, my favorites are the first generation Suntour Cyclone (black paint detailing) and Shimano Crane (earliest DA) and for a later vintage, Suntour Superbe and Campy Chorus...YRMV, surely...(this thread is bound to be controversial!)

I must thank Cyclotoine for the NOS Campy Rally (old style) rear deraileur that he recently sent me!
I have installed it on the Merlin, along with the NOS Regina 14-32 5 speed freewheel that I "won" on eBay.
I have another old English bike that has the same Rally, and it has performed flawlessly for more than 20 years!
My OldNago has a Super Record with Bullseye pulleys. Thats been going strong for more than 20 years as well. I got it from a friend in Germany in 1985.
So those 2 are the top of my list.
:D

Nuovo Record. Super Record is growing on me.

Suntour V-Luxe and V-Luxe GT. Rode a V-Luxe for over 20 years. Only drawback is that it looks kind of heavy. The early Cyclones are very reliable and nice looking with their black accents. The Simplex Super LJ shifts like no other.

I've always loved the Nuovo Records, even the Gran Sport and Record rears. Had a few Super Records over the years, didn't notice any difference. Never had anything more modern. If it was good enough for Eddy, its good enough for me! But I admit, the Japanese stuff works well too.

I've got some serious lust for Simplex SLJs. What better to put on a touring bike? Unfortunately, a lot of deep pocketed meanies feel the same way.

Check this out. 1985 Suntour LePree on an '86 Nishiki 15-speed touring bike. OK, so I haven't actually ridden the bike yet except around the block (still in line for detailing) so it could totally suck:p but I just think the triple pulley is cool:D On the larger cogs it just hangs there in the wind, but takes up slack when on the smaller cogs. interestingly, on p. 292 in Berto's book The Dancing Chain, he shows the line of Suntour derailleurs in 86, but the LePree (double or triple-pulley) is not mentioned at all that I can find.

Love, love, love my Suntour Cyclones IIs. I hear they're finicky with indexing, but who cares?

I've heard good about older Campy Record stuff. I've used some older Shimano stuff on MT bikes to good effect as well. I want to get a Campy Record (82ish) for my latest project.

The one to avoid is the late sixties/early seventies Campy Gran Tourismo. Schwinn used this piece of junk on the late sixties/early seventies Paramount P15s, but switched to a Shimano Crane (relabled as "Schwinn-Approved Le Tour GT300") for the 1972 model year, and continued using the Crane for several years.

Not as old as the NRs, but the Suntour Superbe Pro on my '84 Trek shifts so quietly that sometimes I look back to see if it's working. (it always is)

Scooper may not be trustable now, with that Record 10 Carbon stuff on the Waterford, kind of like Spiderman's black suit...or the Borg, you will be assimulated. When the electronic stuff arrives...

Campagnolo Nuovo Record is very durable, and will always garner style points. It is the "designers" mechanism, it was the STANDARD for a long time.

The Suntour V-GT was the first better performing unit, and back then one would hotrod it with Bullseye pulleys, but heavy overall. The Suntour Cyclone got the weight down, but I was not keen on the cable routing, it forces the cable to bend as the parallogram moves through the arc, but pretty and shifts well, but I do not think as long term durable as the Campagnolo. Much later Suntour made sealed bearing pulleys, very nice.

When the Suntour patent termed out, EVERYONE migrated to that basic design is short order.

can anyone hazard a guess as to the age of this deraileur, and hence the bike's age?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v218/jvpro/DSCF1953.jpg

Scooper may not be trustable now, with that Record 10 Carbon stuff on the Waterford, kind of like Spiderman's black suit...or the Borg, you will be assimulated. When the electronic stuff arrives...
:D

Call me crazy, but I like my Huret Allvit.

Suntours function better, they were used to replace european ones in the '70s,Shimano weren't even close 'till just before the '80s. Campy is pricey,this may piss folkes-off but much of the early Campy just didn't work as smoothly,it lasted and it worked OK for a long time,Suntour worked better than OK for a shorter time,perhaps less dureable,even that's yet to be proven.The Campy is great of course,over-all BUT if you wish to keep a bike "true to it's roots",does Campy even apply? If that's NOT a concern or relavent,many Suntours ought to be considered. VX is very,very good,still available,at least the"type" is.VX was spec.d on 79 thru 82ish bikes.Not that it's a stand-out,more because it's amoung the most reliable for the price and there's not as much written about it as there is the Spirit,Blaze, Superbe and others.Superbe has a dedicated following of it's own.I get the sense that it's out of your scope,it's not such a tourish group anyway.

:D

Stan, does this mean that you have received your Reynolds 953 Waterford and built it up?
Do you have pics posted anywhere? I don't see it in the link to your bikes.
I would love to see it!

Call me crazy, but I like my Huret Allvit.
You're crazy. Shifting an Allvit rear derailleur is like playing Jenga with mittens on.

There are lots of really good derailleurs. I'm partial to SunTour (Cyclone and V are both really good). I have a Camp Super Record on the Bob Jackson that I've been riding this year, and it's okay, but it hasn't completely won me over yet. I actually liked the Gran Sport derailleur better, based on the one time I rode with it.

I must thank Cyclotoine for the NOS Campy Rally (old style) rear deraileur that he recently sent me!
I have installed it on the Merlin, along with the NOS Regina 14-32 5 speed freewheel that I "won" on eBay.
I have another old English bike that has the same Rally, and it has performed flawlessly for more than 20 years!
My OldNago has a Super Record with Bullseye pulleys. Thats been going strong for more than 20 years as well. I got it from a friend in Germany in 1985.
So those 2 are the top of my list.
:D

The rally I sent you is the 2nd generation... the last looked like super record, the first had campagnolo up the back of the body.

Shimano 600 arabesque (pic lifted from ongoing eBay auction...). They were essentially Shimano engineering applied to looks which mirrored Nuovo Record, and with the cool scrolly stuff. And Shimano apparently made a gajillion of them, because you can pick them up for less than $20, and sometimes a LOT less than $20.

Stan, does this mean that you have received your Reynolds 953 Waterford and built it up?
Do you have pics posted anywhere? I don't see it in the link to your bikes.
I would love to see it!
I got it yesterday, Eric. It's Christmas in May for me. ;)
Some pictures I took yesterday are in this thread (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=294012).

ah, man. I just gotta chime in. A first-generation Campy Supa Record. Shifts just like the nuovo record that it is, expensive as property on the moon, and cooooool.....

can anyone hazard a guess as to the age of this deraileur, and hence the bike's age?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v218/jvpro/DSCF1953.jpg
can't tell you exactly, but that's a Huret Ecopar(or something) that has morfed into a Sachs/Huret version after Sachs bought them out...that event could help with the date. My guess (you asked for guesses) is that it occurred around the mid-late '80s, somebody who follows the French will know for sure.

Check this out. 1985 Suntour LePree on an '86 Nishiki 15-speed touring bike. Interestingly, on p. 292 in Berto's book The Dancing Chain, he shows the line of Suntour derailleurs in 86, but the LePree (double or triple-pulley) is not mentioned at all that I can find.

If I'm not mistaken, the original edition of the Dancing Chain had the LePree shown.

-Kurt

Shimano 600 arabesque (pic lifted from ongoing eBay auction...). They were essentially Shimano engineering applied to looks which mirrored Nuovo Record, and with the cool scrolly stuff. And Shimano apparently made a gajillion of them, because you can pick them up for less than $20, and sometimes a LOT less than $20.


I have to agree the arabic scrolled Shimano is one of the classiest sets, asthetically.

Nevertheless, I agree with the earlier post about early 70's Suntour Cyclone and Superbe friction sets.

For indexed, the pinacle is 8-speed Suntour Superbe Pro.

I vote Suntour Cyclone, especially 1st gen. They look awesome and shift even better...

Call me crazy, but I like my Huret Allvit.

Okay, you're crazy. :)

I vote Suntour Cyclone, especially 1st gen. They look awesome and shift even better...
like your selctions..ALL & bikes ..ALL,, I have 2 Miyatas ,I'd suggested SunTour,they work the best.

can't tell you exactly, but that's a Huret Ecopar(or something) that has morfed into a Sachs/Huret version after Sachs bought them out...that event could help with the date. My guess (you asked for guesses) is that it occurred around the mid-late '80s, somebody who follows the French will know for sure.


My favorite is a Vintage (1960's) Simplex or a Campagnolo Nuovo Record... but the Huret Jubile is a very nice design. I like how the rear, front, and shifters all are similar in design and use identical materials.

SUNTOUR CYCLONE! YAY!

Oh yeah, I like my Mavics as well, They're awesome
.

Positron!!!

The rally I sent you is the 2nd generation... the last looked like super record, the first had campagnolo up the back of the body.
Thanks for that enlightenment. I hadn't compared it to the one on the Clive, which I now realize is 1st generation.
Not that it matters, it's still a Rally cool deraileur! ;)
Thanks!!!

Besides, the Merlin is going together as an international mutt anyway. :p
English frame, Italian drive/brakes/bearings, American brake levers, French shifters, rims & seatpin, Swiss spokes Aaaand...Thai tires with Taiwanese tubes! :p

On pure looks, I like the last generation Campy Gran Sport (not Nuovo Gran Sport!). When clean and shiny they just look the best to me. I haven't ridden with one for about 30 years, but still have one in my parts drawer.

I have always wanted to try the Cambio Corsa. Not to derail the thread but does anyone have one or ridden one?

Function: SunTour Cyclone series
Appearance: 1970s Campag. NR

No, silent1, I have never ridden a Cambio Corsa, and I doubt I have the physical coordination required to do so gracefully and efficiently. There is a great picture of Frank Berto trying to shift one in "The Dancing Chain." I would really like to see someone ride an 8- or 10-speed with a half-step suicide Simplex front and a Cambio Corsa rear, as pictured in Frank's book. ... and to think people complain about my 1960s and 1970s friction-shift gear levers :)

A friend of mine just SCORED a beautiful Cambio Rino with Shimano 600 arabesque derailleurs. I keep telling myself I'm alright with it, as the bike is way too big for me...not that I ever envy other people's deals.

The Huret Jubilee is seems quite the little gem. Way pricey though, and I don't really trust the lightest of anything.

I'm also intrigued by the Huret DuoPar. Don't know much about it except that Sheldon Brown thinks quite highly of it:

The Hurét "DuoPar" touring derailer had two parallelograms (hence the name.) The extra parallelogram was used to move the jockey pulley up and down, permitting the DuoPar to handle a wider gear range than any other rear derailer before or since. The original DuoPar was quite expensive, and featured titanium parts. A later, less-expensive version, the Eco DuoPar was also available for a while.

For the well heeled rocket surgeons out there:

bunch of pricey Huret Jubilees (http://stores.ebay.com/Cyclartist_Derailleurs_W0QQcolZ2QQdirZQ2d1QQfsubZ4QQftidZ1QQtZkm)

vintage campy record, not sure of age

Cyclone M-II, beautiful and functional. Full alloy and weighed like an ounce or two before it was installed on my 560. Second, Shimano Crane GS that's on my Super Sport. I just have to push that huge die cast lever(lol), and it feels like it does the shifting for you.,,,,BD

Sorry I'm no campy nut. Probably never will be unfortunately....

always have liked the huret jubilee derailleurs with the drilled out cage.

I like my Huret Allvit.

The Allvit debuted in the late 1950's, the days when American adolescents
rode balloon tire single speeds and American adults didn't ride bikes at
all, and lasted up to the early index days. I believe it remains the
world's most produced single model rear derailer. During the course of
its run, it changed from smooth metal pulley wheels with ball bearings
to toothed plastic pulley wheels with bushings, and the spring
adjustment and cage shape changed over the years as well. If you have
the ball bearings and four notches for the spring tab, you have an early
one. Many were produced with Schwinn markings on the cover: "Schwinn
Approved", "GT250", etc. There was a "Super Allvit" larger capacity
model in the middle years.

The Allivt was the deraileur of the Varsity in America and we look down
on them. I've seen any number of fine French bikes - even Herses and
Singers - from the 1960s that were originally equipped with Allvits. Hmm.

The unique Allvit is really a cool rear derailer. It features:
1. A parallelogram action that moves down as it moves in. This allows
the guide pulley to maintain an equal distance from each of the 14-28T
cogs for accurate shifting. Ok, ok, it weighs probably 4 times as much
as the contemporary Campagnolo Record, but it actually shifts better.
2. A guide pulley that is mounted co-axially with the cage pivot. The
guide pulley doesn't change its positions relative to the freewheel cogs
when the front derailleur is shifted. This allows consistent rear
shifting even with large size differences in the front chainwheels.
3. A derailer body that forms a protective cover over the working parts.
4. A well thought out, highly produceable design for manufacture - there
is really only one part, the main control arm, that can't be made from
sheet metal or on an automatic lathe.

TCS

"I was too hard on the Allvit." Frank Berto

Favorite? The Huret Duopar Titane (http://homepage3.nifty.com/passhunter/hunter/huret/rdd3.htm). It's:
1) very unique
2) a good shifter to this day
3) the first widely available component made from titanium

TCS

...
1. A parallelogram action that moves down as it moves in. This allows
the guide pulley to maintain an equal distance from each of the 14-28T
cogs for accurate shifting. Ok, ok, it weighs probably 4 times as much
as the contemporary Campagnolo Record, but it actually shifts better.

This is where I disagree with you.

I know how to adjust friction derailleurs. I know how to shift friction derailleurs. Shifting an Allvit to the gear you desire (in between the big cog and the small cog) entails several seconds of carefully moving the lever, listening to a lot of chatter, and hoping it doesn't overshoot. Way too much time and concentration required to get into the gear I want.

When the Allvit came out, it was the best thing available for the price, and may have remained so well into the 60's, but compared to even the lowest end Sun Tour or Shimano rear derailleur of the late 60's, it performs poorly.

My first road bike (bottom-of-the-line 1962 Bianchi Corsa) had Huret derailleurs, including the Allvit rear, which worked OK except for very frequent cable breakage at the gear lever. The Allvit does track a typical cog tooth profile well, unlike the basic Simplex and early Campag. flat parallelograms, but nothing touches a slant planograph, which understandably became almost ubiquitous when SunTour's patent expired in the early 1980s. I have also discovered over the years that one can learn to operate almost any derailleur effectively by compensating consciously or subconsciously for its quirks. Certain chain-and-cog combinations work better than others -- if I get the least bit careless, I can make an SRAM PC-58 chain slide over the tops of the teeth of a Regina America 13-23 standard-width 6-speed block. I can't reproduce this problem on the various SunTour freewheels which dominate my collection.

Shifting an Allvit to the gear you desire (in between the big cog and the small cog) entails several seconds of carefully moving the lever, listening to a lot of chatter, and hoping it doesn't overshoot.

I've always wondered if a 6-speed Shimano Centeron jockey wheel would improve this...

-Kurt

This is where I disagree with you.
...and that's cool. You also disagree with the instrumented shifting tests Frank Berto performed for Bicycling magazine in the late70s/early 80s.

Best,
TCS

Suntours function better, they were used to replace european ones in the '70s,Shimano weren't even close 'till just before the '80s. Campy is pricey,this may piss folkes-off but much of the early Campy just didn't work as smoothly,it lasted and it worked OK for a long time,Suntour worked better than OK for a shorter time,perhaps less dureable,even that's yet to be proven.The Campy is great of course,over-all BUT if you wish to keep a bike "true to it's roots",does Campy even apply? If that's NOT a concern or relavent,many Suntours ought to be considered. VX is very,very good,still available,at least the"type" is.VX was spec.d on 79 thru 82ish bikes.Not that it's a stand-out,more because it's amoung the most reliable for the price and there's not as much written about it as there is the Spirit,Blaze, Superbe and others.Superbe has a dedicated following of it's own.I get the sense that it's out of your scope,it's not such a tourish group anyway.

I agree---I went from a mid-eighties super record to a late nineties chorus 9 speed RD and noticed a HUGE improvement

Motobecane??


I had the Allvit on my '72 Mirage.

My favorite: Suntour Cyclone.....and my black detail paint is wearing off.:(
I love the sound of the super smooth "Ka-chunk" as next gear comes online.

I really like my Ofmega Master, very smooth, well-built, and looks good :) although it isn't happy with anything more than a 23-tooth cog.

1985 Campagnolo Victory and 1987 Campagnolo Triomphe S3 & Victory S3.

-Kurt