Advocacy & Safety - Parental supervision?

I've been on this forum for a few months over three years, and one thing I've noticed quite a lot of is threads about being "lectured by a driver". It leads me to ask the question of why? Why do drivers feel the need to "lecture" cyclists? Why do cyclists (on the whole) tolerate it? What gives drivers, or society in general for that matter, the right to take such a parental attitude toward cyclists?

Think about this: for the most part we are not talking about concerned family members here. This is not a situation of school teachers lecturing their students about poor behaviour. This is not a boss chewing out his employee for being late. This is a total stranger giving a lecture to a grown adult about an activity they have (in the vast majority of cases) never taken any part or interest in.

If I was to walk into the workplace of anybody else on this forum and lecture them about why they "shouldn't be doing this job", what sort of reaction would I get? What if I walked into your home and lectured you about how you "should live somewhere else?"

So why, then, do drivers feel the need to lecture cyclists along the lines of "you know, you shouldn't ride on the road, it's dangerous!" How do they know? Have they ever ridden on the road? Do they have any understanding of the abilities of this total stranger?

Why then, do so many cyclists take the attitude of "this driver was trying to do me a favour, so I thought it best to be nice to them." Would you be so nice to a total stranger trying to do you a "favour" by telling you to quit a job they know nothing about? Somehow, I think in most cases, the response would be a curt "none of your f**king business!"

Now I've never actually been "lectured" by a driver - I generally don't hang around long enough to hear the lecture. However, if I was stuck at a set of traffic lights one day, and copped the lecture about "you shouldn't be riding on the road", would I really be so out of order if I told them to mind their own business?

I can't figure out why drivers do it. Maybe they are afraid of hitting you and instead of actually improving their driving, they want to get you off the road. I have to say that I have never been "lectured" but I have been told to get off the road, rudely.

How about this response?

"get a bike fat @ss!"

Of course that's just a fantasy response that in real life would probably get one flattened.

Originally posted by spexy
How about this response?

"get a bike fat @ss!"

Of course that's just a fantasy response that in real life would probably get one flattened.

I may use that line! Ah, and I'll most probably get flattened also.

Well, they're in a car and you're on a bike. Therefore they're right!

;)

But really, they take no notice that they speed, tailgate, pass too close, roll through stops, and kill thousands every year, so why should we listen?

they are the majority.

therefore they are right.

actually... wait a second....

However, if I was stuck at a set of traffic lights one day, and copped the lecture about "you shouldn't be riding on the road", would I really be so out of order if I told them to mind their own business?

Nope.

I often respond to people who shout that to me when I'm riding. Furthermore, if I am riding, and some driver does something stupid in front of me and I catch them at a light, I let them know, with colorful wording, that I am not appreciating their shortened attention span when it comes to seeing a cyclist on the road. Fortunately, I've never had some dunce in a car tell me to ride on the sidewalk- they know better.

I have often lectured drivers on safe passing distances. One driver actually told me, "I couldn't help it, the guy behind me was about to run me over!"

Cycling is still regarded by most as a childhood activity, and/or a leisure activity to be engaged in on segregated facilities. There's also that life progression of: Get a driver's licence, get a sex life, get married, get kids... you know the routine, and biking drops way, way down the to-do list. Until it becomes a childhood memory. Or until the doctor says: "Get exercising or you'll die" and it suddenly comes back on to life's agenda.

It maybe that most people who lecture are also trying to reinforce the reasons why they don't want to ride a bike, and why they hope their children will "grow out" of bike riding at the appropriate age. These people also never consider cycling as a transport option because of the dominance of motor vehicles. Plus bikes are toys and/or recreation equipment in their minds.

Sadly, no amount of lecturing back to them about the virtues of cycling is likely to change their minds.

R

"Thank you for your concern, but since you've already demonstrated your ignorance I see no reason to listen to you."

I have it rehearsed so it's ready when I need it.

If they get really annoying about it I back up until I can see their license plate and start chanting their plate number real loud.

RichC

The short answer is that you have slowed them up by 12 seconds.

They are important people - they drive cars - they don't have time to be out enjoying themselves on a child's toy. If you slow them up by 12 seconds, someone has to pay.

That 12 seconds was going to be spent talking to their kids when they get home. Now their child will go without meaningful parental contact for another day.

Or maybe they run a large company and that 12 seconds will cost them millions of dollars in earninings.

Or maybe ..... No. I'd better stop now. But one day, I'm going to find out why taking that extra 12 seconds to pass us is such a big deal.

Originally posted by Rich Clark
If they get really annoying about it I back up until I can see their license plate and start chanting their plate number real loud.

I always carry a cell phone in my back pocket. If a driver starts to get abusive, I pull the phone out and ask if we can call a cop to get the straight goods. (They usually take off at this point)

Originally posted by Rowan
Cycling is still regarded by most as a childhood activity, and/or a leisure activity to be engaged in on segregated facilities. There's also that life progression of: Get a driver's licence, get a sex life, get married, get kids... you know the routine, and biking drops way, way down the to-do list. Until it becomes a childhood memory. Or until the doctor says: "Get exercising or you'll die" and it suddenly comes back on to life's agenda.


Gee, I'm missing out on all of life's progression, then. However, I have a suspicion that you're right. Maybe it is the perception of biking as a "kid's" activity. Of course, the ultimate irony is that most adults wish they were younger than they actually are in virtually every other facet of life. Can they really begrudge someone else the opportunity of a second childhood?


Originally posted by MediaCreations
The short answer is that you have slowed them up by 12 seconds.

12 seconds? Gee Rodney, what are you doing out there? Blocking them or something? I think the most I've ever "held someone up" for was about five seconds. And if I recall correctly, I had to pass them in traffic three times to accumulate those five seconds! :eek:

Maybe that 12 seconds will be spent staring at the colourful spectrum of the next set of traffic lights! Hey, do you think I have a future as a poet?

Originally posted by Chris L
12 seconds? Gee Rodney, what are you doing out there? Blocking them or something? I think the most I've ever "held someone up" for was about five seconds. And if I recall correctly, I had to pass them in traffic three times to accumulate those five seconds! :eek:

What? You mean you don't swerve uncontrollably all over the road?

I was being generous to those poor, poor drivers.


Originally posted by Chris L
Maybe that 12 seconds will be spent staring at the colourful spectrum of the next set of traffic lights! Hey, do you think I have a future as a poet?

You've always had a way with words haven't you?

I always love the motorists who rev their cars madly and zoom past you at a million km/h so that they can beat you to the red light. You can almost hear the litres of petrol being sucked into the engine.

Originally posted by Chris L

Why then, do so many cyclists take the attitude of "this driver was trying to do me a favour, so I thought it best to be nice to them."

We do? I've answered back in a semi-contemptious pandoring manner but I've never been appreciative of their "favour". What I don't do however is try and antagonise them (at least not without a quick getaway plan)... that's just not smart. Steel is real and they've got more of it. Level the playing field and pick your battles.

Originally posted by Chris L
I've been on this forum for a few months over three years, and one thing I've noticed quite a lot of is threads about being "lectured by a driver". It leads me to ask the question of why? Why do drivers feel the need to "lecture" cyclists? Why do cyclists (on the whole) tolerate it?

Why do motorists do it? Who cares. I certainly don't. Maybe there are a lot of motorists out there with anger management or control issues. But that's something for them to lay back on a couch and take up with their therapist.

Why do cyclists tolerate it? That's a good question. I'm on a bike; I'm not cornered into listening to some clown sanctimoniously tell me about cycling or how I should get off the road or some other silly stuff. I've never let a motorist lecture me about my cycling. I just ride off and go about my business.

[If that were to happen to me off my bike (say while locking it up), that motorist is really taking a big chance. I road away, avoided a confrontation, and now the other person has sought me out? In that sort of situation, that could very easily and reasonably be taken as being accosted, just like if you were to confront another motorist in a parking lot after a spat on the road. You accost someone in that manner and you're going to find your teeth laying on the pavement. Not smart.]

Of course, there are times when I'm out on the bike that I've been wrong and I've tried to indicate to the motorist when that happens when I know it. But I'm certainly not going to let someone lecture me about it. Motorists don't dare do that to each other, I'm certainly not going to indulge a motorist in that just because I'm on a bicycle.

Originally posted by MediaCreations
I always love the motorists who rev their cars madly and zoom past you at a million km/h so that they can beat you to the red light. You can almost hear the litres of petrol being sucked into the engine.

They're not nearly as much fun as the ones who sit at the traffic lights behind me, revving the living s**t out of their engine, then being the absolute last ones to react when the light actually changes. I always get a chuckle out of them.


Originally posted by Khuon
What I don't do however is try and antagonise them (at least not without a quick getaway plan)...

I agree. Confrontation is always better avoided. However there's just something I've noticed from posts I've read here, and from people I've spoken to. A lot of cyclists seem to have something of an inferiority complex with regard to riding on the roads. Specifically, they seem to value the judgement of the motorist who is not in that position to their own judgement.

Basically, if a motorist tells them that riding on the road is "dangerous", they'll accept it on face value. Even if they've been riding on the road all day without incident. Again, this is something they simply would not do in any other facet of life.


Originally posted by jatkins679
[If that were to happen to me off my bike (say while locking it up), that motorist is really taking a big chance. I road away, avoided a confrontation, and now the other person has sought me out? In that sort of situation, that could very easily and reasonably be taken as being accosted,

I think there might be a bit of a misinterpretation here. The tone of the motorist isn't always confrontational in these situations (meaning that we need a non-confrontational way of telling them to mind their own business). However, in saying that, what gives them the right (politely or not) to pass judgement on the actions of a total stranger who is not breaking any laws, not affecting them in any way, and did not ask for their opinion?

Originally posted by Chris L
what gives them the right (politely or not) to pass judgement on the actions of a total stranger who is not breaking any laws, not affecting them in any way, and did not ask for their opinion?

but they so fervently believe that we are breaking the law or, if they know that we aren't, that the law is wrong.

(and they think driving like this is perfectly fine!)

Originally posted by Chris L
I think there might be a bit of a misinterpretation here. The tone of the motorist isn't always confrontational in these situations (meaning that we need a non-confrontational way of telling them to mind their own business). However, in saying that, what gives them the right (politely or not) to pass judgement on the actions of a total stranger who is not breaking any laws, not affecting them in any way, and did not ask for their opinion?

Sure, that might be the result of a misinterpretation. But I'm not going to relax to find out. I think it's a reasonable and prudent response to be stressed and prepare yourself for more confrontation if a motorist were to do that.

But let's be candid here: you'd be an idiot to think that after a road spat with anyone you can just wander up to them soon afterwards and make amends, kiss-and-make-up, sing kumbaya, or whatever. Just let it go. And since most people aren't going to confront you after a road spat to sing kumbaya, it's reasonable to think they are going to escalate things.

That isn't to say I would fight or throw a punch. I would definitely look for an escape, a way to get away. But there are people (cyclists included) who will not and the fight is on. Right or wrong, that is going to be a result of such a confrontation. In any case, you don't go around confronting people after a road spat. That's just dumb. You don't try to lecture any stranger unless you expect a response... and sometimes it's not pleasant.

Well, one way you could reply to the "biking is dangerous" line is
"driving is dangerous, speeding is dangerous, pollution is dangerous, rolling thru stop signs is dangerous, wasting money on a car is dangerous, so let me take my risks and you take yours."

Originally posted by spandexwarrior
Well, one way you could reply to the "biking is dangerous" line is
"driving is dangerous, speeding is dangerous, pollution is dangerous, rolling thru stop signs is dangerous, wasting money on a car is dangerous, so let me take my risks and you take yours."

Or you could just ignore such people?

Close-minded or assumptive people aren't worth arguing with, IMHO. You aren't going to change their mind, you just end up wasting your breath.

Originally posted by jatkins679
Or you could just ignore such people?

Close-minded or assumptive people aren't worth arguing with, IMHO. You aren't going to change their mind, you just end up wasting your breath.

Exactly. Thank them for their time and move along. At least you've won out by having another story to tell about ignorant people.

Originally posted by khuon
Exactly. Thank them for their time and move along. At least you've won out by having another story to tell about ignorant people.

I usually just laugh and say, 'Whatever, guy...', and then go about my business.

You'd be surprised, though, how pissed some people get when you don't take what they are telling you seriously.... as if it were their right to demand that of you.

One of the greatest rights we have as Americans is simply the right to be left alone. I wish more people thought it was an important right for other people to have, too.

Originally posted by MediaCreations
The short answer is that you have slowed them up by 12 seconds.



The funny thing is that I almost always catch up to them at the next light.. after they have blazed past me.

They almost always look embarassed and try to avoid eye contact with me altogether.

They will then fly off as soon as the light turns green only to meet up with me a few blocks down at another red light.
And I am not even making an effort to keep up with them...

They never seem to get that they really are not saving any time by blasting past cyclists...

Justen