Road Cycling - Fitting advice...please help.

Hi,

New to the forum....
I have a 2002 Bianchi Veloce that I bought last year in NY before I moved to VA. The bike was fitted by a shop for me and supposedly was the right size. I thought their fitting process was a bit lazy, but they assured me that once I was in shape any slight pains I had would dissappear as I got used to the position on my bike.

My bike is a bianchi veloce and is a size 57. I am 5'11 and have a 33in inseam (when measuring via wrenchscience method). I have always been a bit uncomfortable on this bike. I swapped stems last year for a 90mm one because I felt like I was reaching too far for the hoods and it was uncomfortable to ride in the drops. I probably put about 450 miles on the bike and no amount of tweaking with the saddle or stem seemd to fix my problem. I still came off of rides of only 30 miles or so with a very sore lower back, and sometimes pain in the shoulders/neck. I also just didnt feel connected to the bike. After checking out bikefitting.com, it seems they calculate that I should be riding a 54cm frame. This makes some sense to me, as it would explain why I cant get my reach right on my bianchi. however Im unsure because when i was 'professionally' fit, I was told I needed a 57......is it possible I actually need a 54-55?
any advice would be helpful, id like to keep my current bike but i dont know if its really the right frame for me....:beer:

I don't know where you are in Virginia, but the local shop here in Concord, NC is outstanding. This guy does mechanic work for a lot of high-end teams. The other day there was a customer from a city about 3 hours away, and he told me on Saturdays he's had customers come from 5 different states. They come in for the fitting process that's featured on the website.

http://www.rightgear.net/site/index.shtml

I might be a hike for you, but I was amazed how many other people had come from a distance just to see him. Hope this helps.

BahnBrenner,

I'm 5'8 30 inch inseam (cycling measurement not pants),
and I ride a 53cm frame and can go up to as high as
a 56cm on some frames.
I would think a 57 would be a good choice for you.
My suggestion is find a good bike shop and have
a fitting done there, ON YOUR BIKE.
I'd strongly suggest you contact Smiley
he is a Serotta fitter, and very highly thought of.
From Serotta's site:

Mobile Fitter for DC Metro area: Smiley (301-530-5165, magoo252@comcast.net)
May cost you a few bucks (up to $100 for a full session,
but you're just getting a good adjustment so should be
cheaper) but will save you from buying a new bike.
You may need to swap seatpost, stem etc. but its worth it.
If you contact Smiley tell him Marty from Phorum sent you!

The lower back pain may just be needing to get in shape
for the drop bars etc. I'd suggest sit ups, crunches etc. to
strengthen you abdominals.

let us know how this goes (especially the fitting!).
Marty

Originally posted by lotek
BahnBrenner,

I'm 5'8 30 inch inseam (cycling measurement not pants),
and I ride a 53cm frame and can go up to as high as
a 56cm on some frames.
I would think a 57 would be a good choice for you.
My suggestion is find a good bike shop and have
a fitting done there, ON YOUR BIKE.
I'd strongly suggest you contact Smiley
he is a Serotta fitter, and very highly thought of.
From Serotta's site:
May cost you a few bucks (up to $100 for a full session,
but you're just getting a good adjustment so should be
cheaper) but will save you from buying a new bike.
You may need to swap seatpost, stem etc. but its worth it.
If you contact Smiley tell him Marty from Phorum sent you!

The lower back pain may just be needing to get in shape
for the drop bars etc. I'd suggest sit ups, crunches etc. to
strengthen you abdominals.

let us know how this goes (especially the fitting!).
Marty

Thanks Lo-Tec....

I think the frame size is fine except when it comes to reach, Im not comfy in the drops at all, and it seems like if the hoods were another inch closer to me I would feel more comfortable when on the tops of the bars too, always seems like im stretching. I do have long legs compared to my torso though, so I was thinking smaller frame with shorter top tube might solve my problem....I will try and find a shop to fit me on my current bike when I get the chance. I had toyed with the idea of getting a 55cm frame though, without being re-fit.

54 (c-c) is likely too small for you. 57 (c-c) should be on the high end of OK. 57 (c-t) is probably bang on.

For comparison, I'm 5'10" with a 32" inseam and I ride anything in the 54-56 (c-c) range. The 56 (c-c) is ever so slightly big.

Seatposts go up and down. IMO the top tube and stem are the critical thing. I *have* to have a 56cm top tube (and a 13 cm stem) or I'm uncomfortable (short legs/long torso).

On the face of it, a 56cm frame (measured center-to-center) would seem to be right, according to the inseam *.67 formula. A 56 c-c frame is usually equivalent to 57 or 58cm c-t, so I can see how the shop would have selected that size.

It's possible that your proportions would indicate a bike with a shorter top tube, but I really just wonder if the bars are too low. What if you put a stem with some rise on the bike?

I don't understand why most bike shops and half the riders seem to think every road bike has to be set up with ridiculously low handlebars, as if we were all pros riding 150 miles a day without stopping.

My opinion: figure out where the drops need to be so they're useful to you. Move the bars up (using a stem with appropriate rise and extension) so the drops are in that position. Let the tops be wherever they end up. Move the levers up or down so you can brake effectively.

Unfortunately, this process is usually supported by the shop that fits and sells the bike, and stem swaps are included in the price. That doesn't help you much now.

RichC

The Volpe has quite a high bottom bracket, so a 57 cm frame is equiv to a larger size for a touring frame (like the Bianchi San Remo). Check out geometry tables on Bianchi website, look at frame size vs standover height, and virtual top tube length.
How much standoever clearance do you have? How much exposed seatpost ?

Im about your size, but would consider the 57 to be on the large size.

Originally posted by Rich Clark
On the face of it, a 56cm frame (measured center-to-center) would seem to be right, according to the inseam *.67 formula. A 56 c-c frame is usually equivalent to 57 or 58cm c-t, so I can see how the shop would have selected that size.

It's possible that your proportions would indicate a bike with a shorter top tube, but I really just wonder if the bars are too low. What if you put a stem with some rise on the bike?

I don't understand why most bike shops and half the riders seem to think every road bike has to be set up with ridiculously low handlebars, as if we were all pros riding 150 miles a day without stopping.

My opinion: figure out where the drops need to be so they're useful to you. Move the bars up (using a stem with appropriate rise and extension) so the drops are in that position. Let the tops be wherever they end up. Move the levers up or down so you can brake effectively.

Unfortunately, this process is usually supported by the shop that fits and sells the bike, and stem swaps are included in the price. That doesn't help you much now.

RichC Rich, good points. My bars could be slightly too low, but I still feel over-extended. I put a 90mm stem on to reduce the length I need to reach, but somehow it doesnt seem to have solved the problem. I also have the hoods up about as high as I can put them on the curve of the bar. My current stem is about a 5deg rise I think it looks almost level so its not much. My rationale though, is that if I need to get a 90mm stem with a high degree of rise, isnt the frame to big? 57 is probably the biggest I can go, judging by standover (which is perfect on the 57, bout 2 inches from tube to crotch bone). Im guessing that a 55 probably wouldnt be out of my 'safe' range for my body, but I dont want a frame thats too small. I have a short torso, and I really think the top tube length is too great on my 57. This is supported by the fact that if I push my seat all the way forward, reach to bars becomes pretty comfortable...although that screws up the geometry for pedaling. Anyone know how bianchi measures their frames for 2002? I thought it was C-C. I just wanna ride my bike!:mad: :D

What Rich says!

I have the same problem, I put a stem riser on my bike and it is like a different bike!

Now I wonder, is one beter off getting a bike on the smallish size then using a little longer stem or bigger and a shorter stem? How does this effect the distribution of your weight between the wheels? I have this same delima in my head now!

I ride my 56cm frame with an 8cm stem. It works OK. You should be OK with +- 2cm from the "normal" size.

My massage theropist suggests walking to get rid of lower back pain. She said it's amazing how suck a simple thing like that can strengthen the lower back muscles. Just thought I'd pass that along.
Your measurments and frame size seem reasonable to me. Are you changing riding positions every once in a while during your daily ride?

I'd still recommend visiting a local shop and seeing if you could borrow a stem with more rise. This will not only help your back but also shorten the effective reach. If it doesn't work, you haven't lost anything; if it does, it's a lot cheaper than a new bike. Not that there's anything wrong with a new bike.

If you did need a new frame, for the sake of discussion, it sounds like you don't need a smaller one, you just need one the same size but with a shorter effective top tube length.

I have a feeling, however, that you're not as far from a good fit on your Bianchi as you may fear.

RichC

On my Trek,

I had to go with a stem that had a rise, but was shorter as well. I don't remember the dimensions.

Also they had the handlebars adjusted too low, where I really had to reach for the hood, I went and moved the hoods higher and and much more comfortable, My arms we so far stretched out that my elbows would hurt if I were in the hoods for too long.

The only problem that I have now, it when I"m in the drops that I can't operate the gears very easily, but it hasn't been a big deal.

So see if you can get an even shorter stem that has a higher rise to it. Also make sure your seat is ajusted properly, as far as being forward enough. My is almost all the way forward for the proper pedal to knee relationship.

Hmmm... I wouldn't jump to conclusions on size before assessing cause of your woes. Shoulder/neck pain often indicates bars too low (too much weight on hands), back problems often come from siting too upright (road shocks transmit through back) - these 2 things conflict.

Do you get back pain anyway? Maybe back strength is required
Is this real pain or a stiff achy feeling? This would be more a sign of getting used to the bike (how long have you been riding general & a road bike specific).
Are your elbows bent slightly when on the hoods or dea straight? If they're straight the top tube is probably too long?

Top tube is more important for size IMO - I seem to be a bit funny: top tube 54cm & seat tube 57-59cm (depends on BB clearance) so I use a smaller frame with long seat post & about 4" drop from saddle to bar. I'm almost exactly the same size as your dimensions - this set up gives me no problems but I've been riding for years (although only recent returned to serious riding after several years hiatus).

From cylcotourist's signature a useful link:

http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/Reader_articles/position.html

Right, that's enough from me.

And this is exactly why I don't like threadless stem.
with my trusty quill stem I can raise or lower as much
as I want/need. try that with threadless.

I still say let an experienced fitter check you on the bike.
My sister in law was having all sorts of problems till the
LBS mad a few adjustments to saddle, changed stem etc.
She is currently riding Freewheel around Oklahoma, before
the fitting, 1/2 hour was enough to cause major pain. . .

As another member of the forums would say:

Ride Comfortable

Marty

Originally posted by doonster
Hmmm... I wouldn't jump to conclusions on size before assessing cause of your woes. Shoulder/neck pain often indicates bars too low (too much weight on hands), back problems often come from siting too upright (road shocks transmit through back) - these 2 things conflict.

Do you get back pain anyway? Maybe back strength is required
Is this real pain or a stiff achy feeling? This would be more a sign of getting used to the bike (how long have you been riding general & a road bike specific).
Are your elbows bent slightly when on the hoods or dea straight? If they're straight the top tube is probably too long?

Top tube is more important for size IMO - I seem to be a bit funny: top tube 54cm & seat tube 57-59cm (depends on BB clearance) so I use a smaller frame with long seat post & about 4" drop from saddle to bar. I'm almost exactly the same size as your dimensions - this set up gives me no problems but I've been riding for years (although only recent returned to serious riding after several years hiatus).

From cylcotourist's signature a useful link:

http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/Reader_articles/position.html

Right, that's enough from me.

Well the more I think about it, I suppose higher bars might really help. Problem is that my steerer is threadless and I have the stem about as high up with spacers as it can go safely. What could a soloution be, other than a new fork? Is there an extension available? I really dont want to buy a new stem unless necessary.

Delta bar riser!!!!!

You can then raise and lower the stem as you see fit, without having to readjust the head set loading!

The thing I can't seem to find an answer to is, when I shorten my stem and raise my bars it makes the bike very quick to turn. This is in reference to "would one be better off with a shorter TT before you raise the bars and lengthen the stem"?

Thanks to all for the advice. I will go for the Delta bar riser or possibly new stem for now. We shall see what happens. I get the feeling Im almost there fit wise. Just need to tweak so these pains dont set in after only 15 miles.