Electric Bikes - got beat by an electric bike today

So what? Pie isn't good for you either. You wanna outlaw pie, too? Quit being such a busybody. Other people can make their own decisions about what they "need". You don't have any moral standing to decide what other people "need".

Hey, I never said anything about legislating any of this. I'm just saying walking/biking is a good idea and should be recommended and encouraged; that doesn't mean banning Segways and the like but people should be aware that walking or biking is a healthier choice than using the Segway to get around town. Kind of like, to use your example, eating too much pie isn't recommended but nobody (myself included!) is talking about making any law against it. People have the right to make their own decisions, but the fact is that some choices are going to be better for them than others and these are the ones that should be encouraged.

Hey, if it gets even a minute section of the populace out on two wheels as opposed to being in the car then WE HAVE A WINNER. I have zero issues with e-bikes, if at whatever age you decide to forgo the car and want to get one of these babies, more power to ya. If they are that quick and are willing to offer me up a rest in the way of allowing me a draft....cool.

Just playing Zeuser. Where abouts in miss.?

West. Erin Mills, Meadowvale, Port Credit and the Credit valley are the places I bike the most.

Edit: Hold on... I think I was in error about the whole racing part. I just noticed the law states MOTOR VEHICLE. Bikes are vehicles but not motor vehicles. so if you're in Ontario, by all means.... go ahead and race!. W00T!

Also interesting from Ontario's HTA:

173. No person shall race or drive furiously any horse or other animal on a highway.

So, a bicycle is about the only thing you can race.

It's kind of strange that they limit an e-bike to be a vehicle with three wheels or less, since there's no such restriction on the definition of a bicycle, AFAIK. I suppose they're trying to avoid people claiming their low-speed electric cars are e-bikes.

Also interesting from Ontario's HTA:

173. No person shall race or drive furiously any horse or other animal on a highway.

So, a bicycle is about the only thing you can race.

It's kind of strange that they limit an e-bike to be a vehicle with three wheels or less, since there's no such restriction on the definition of a bicycle, AFAIK. I suppose they're trying to avoid people claiming their low-speed electric cars are e-bikes.

Electric cars don't have pedals, so I don't see why the 3 wheel restriction is in effect.

If you read popular science or popular mechanics, there's and ad in the last pages about a 4 wheel 2 or 4 seat pedal operated vehicle. Essentially a 4 wheel bike. The last time I visited the old port of Montreal, I saw some of those 4 seat versions for rent. Looks fun for a small family.

Why couldn't you add some type of power assist to those things?

this thread is already gh3y .. who the hell cares about the damn suckway ... lol

Those things are for rich, stuck up yuppies in their lazy do-nothing i'm better than you lives..

ohh, and F the cagers.

You make an electric motorcycle vis-a-vis Akira, and I'm all over it. Doubly so if it comes with cannons.

You make an electric motorcycle vis-a-vis Akira, and I'm all over it. Doubly so i it comes with cannons.

That bike is so cool. But if I remeber correctly, it wasn't electric or had canons. Someone did make a fully functioning "Akira bike" a few years ago. It was on display at the Tokyo motor show or something. I was so jealous.

There are very desirable stylish eBikes as well. See what I call my "unicorn" in my sig. ;)

they'll figure it out..... oh yes....

You make an electric motorcycle vis-a-vis Akira, and I'm all over it. Doubly so if it comes with cannons.

http://homepage.mac.com/awcg/.Pictures/Bike/Go-One2.png (http://www.go-one.us/)
http://homepage.mac.com/awcg/.Pictures/Bike/Aero.jpg (http://www.aerorider.com/)

They are out there. Spendy, but they do exist.

http://homepage.mac.com/awcg/.Pictures/Bike/Go-One2.png (http://www.go-one.us/)
http://homepage.mac.com/awcg/.Pictures/Bike/Aero.jpg (http://www.aerorider.com/)

They are out there. Spendy, but they do exist.

That thing is so cool! Wish I had the money.

Is there some reason you thought there was a race going on?



What gives you an impression that a race is NOT going on?

What gives you an impression that a race is NOT going on?

Because when I ride, I'm not racing other bikers. I'm just out there to enjoy myself, I don't care what other bikers are doing unless I'm out biking with them as a group.

Dude, it was a joke. My competative nature compels me to catch anything I can, though.

Dude, it was a joke. ...

That's what smilies are for. ;)

fordfaster, was the electric bike rider pedaling AND using the motor, or was he only e-motoring?

http://homepage.mac.com/awcg/.Pictures/Bike/Go-One2.png (http://www.go-one.us/)
http://homepage.mac.com/awcg/.Pictures/Bike/Aero.jpg (http://www.aerorider.com/)

They are out there. Spendy, but they do exist.
i don't get

expensive

what you use for?

is for the commute?

hard to put away or lock this?

it go on road, but lower hard for driver cage to see?

i dont get?

to original poster

it not for racea equal to say it is not
because with motor it is man plus machine comobine to beat man alone

or two machine plus man (bike plu motor pluys man) beat machine (1) + man (bike plus man_

1+1+1>1+1

i not understand it cost as much as cage, and looks like a cage? but behave as bike, but not belong on cager paths? no belong on pedestr paths? where you take and why if you spend $14000 on, why use if not use on cager paths?

http://www.ntronics.com/auto/bombardier-embrio-1-wheel-motor-bike/
http://www.hammacher.com/publish/10942.asp?promo=new_items#
http://www.mobilemag.com/content/images/6600_large.jpg

Imagine creaming a decked out roadie on a multi-K$ bike when you're riding in jeans on a dual suspension MTB with fat tires, that feels awesome! Well, beating other cyclists while riding an ebike felt nothing like that to me. felt like... Well, not much really. That's too bad cause otherwise it makes for a fantastic bike for stuff like commuting or going somewhere & such, best lights ever too! Though, as usual your mileage may vary...

why is the race/
you not tour de france, why bother"?

Because racing other cyclists is a lot of fun.

If you don't get it, that's fine too...
Hence "your mileage may vary"

If you are in front you must pay, or be passed.... :lol:
Life is a race....

Not all ebikes are slow, they are mostly meant to be limited in the US to 20 mph top motor speed, but on another forum I frequent there is 50 mph club and a 60 mph club, the speed has to be maintainable on the flat.
I don't care how fit you are you aint going to out run them :) and some are running large LiPo batteries so their range is large to.
Mine are the opposite, I have a 160 watt rated motor ( just enough to take the sting off a hill) in one of my recumbent trikes for the days I am carrying an injury (steep terrain) or biked out and want to run an errand.

Except a two wheeled device that holds 50mph on it's own on the flat is clearly not an electric bicycle, it's a motorcycle...

i don't get

expensive

what you use for?

is for the commute?

hard to put away or lock this?

it go on road, but lower hard for driver cage to see?

i dont get?

They are fast, very fast for the power put in.
There is a power meter on the net at http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm punch in some figures for a normal bike and then try the Quest, as speed rises the benefit to the faired trike increases dramatically.
But aside from that they keep you warm in winter, drier if it rains and are very comfortable on long rides, I just wish they were cheaper so I did not have to build my own. :(
As a rough idea of the benefit to speed, my very poor aerodynamic fairing boosts a speed of 48 kph to 63 kph, will allow a flat land cruise of around 45 kph with an average organic engine and wind unless dead on the nose will increase your speed.

Except a two wheeled device that holds 50mph on it's own on the flat is clearly not an electric bicycle, it's a motorcycle...
Agreed, as I said mine are the opposite, minimal power assist devices.

I disagree. A ebike that CAN go 47 MPH can also be controller limited to the LEGAL power and speed requirement.This ebike has made it up a 10,005 ft volcano from sea leval in 3 hours on a 36 mile trip.
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=ecyclemaui

Yo Hawaii, have you forgotten how you were single handedly responsible for getting ebikes banned in Maui? You know, the way you filmed yourself flying that unregistrable home made motorcycle, calling your vehicle an electric bicycle flat out in the face of common sense? Talk about crying out loud for legislative action against ebikes in Maui... And for who wants to look it up, search for Randy Draper... Let's take a closer look at this...

Randy, you know as well as I do that if you put much too big a big motor and limit it's power output/speed to a legal level, you'll still have to pay for it but never get to use it, plus you'll be handicapped by an important weight penalty, all that would be for worse then nothing as the drivetrain's efficiency will be a lot worse compared to an approriately sized one, mostly because the motor will be running outside of it's efficient range, hogging no-load current because it's underloaded... Compound that to the way 47mph means 3Kw to the road on an MTB per Kreuzotter, while 20mph is hardly 1/10th as much.

Overbuilding the electric drive part so the vehicle can go 47mph seems like a really stupid idea, unless the intent is definitely to not build an ebike... Knowing a part of your past, and seeing the apparent present, it just seems rude of you to pose as though you have interest in keeping these things legal. Why are you suggesting electric drive components so the vehicle can go 47 mph? I really can't see a point in it at all, unless the intent is to build a motorcycle.

Except a two wheeled device that holds 50mph on it's own on the flat is clearly not an electric bicycle, it's a motorcycle...

That's just your personal oppinion. Truth is: transport canada would never legalize it as a motorcycle.

Truth is: Transport Canada would never legalize it as a bicycle. But try getting a lisence onto a dirt bike? Does that make it any less of a motorcycle?

Or take the lights off a legit motorcycle, and it's no longer legal. But it's still a motorcycle and it'll still generally behave as a motorcycle. As for the said 50mph device that started life as a bicycle, having been modified to behave as a motorcycle, it now is one. (goes beyond limits set for limited speed motorcycles, too). And I'd say there's for good reason why they won't allow things like this on our roads. I mean, no kickstand cut-off?

Quacks like a duck, looks like a duck... You may recall that's how people were getting away with using assist bikes before they were made legal, at least in my neck of the woods. Panniers covering a rear wheel hub motor were the thing, the few people I saw using them just behaved like any other bicyclists, and no one seemed to care.

Truth is: Transport Canada would never legalize it as a bicycle. But try getting a lisence onto a dirt bike? Does that make it any less of a motorcycle?


Transport Canada still needs to approve the dirtbike before it's allowed for sale in Canada. Licence or not, it's still legally defined as a motorcycle. Just an off-road motorcycle.

Oh.. it's not a bicycle either. Just your conception of "it's a motorcycle" was wrong.

But if something behaves as a motorcycle, how is it wrong to think of it as a motorcycle?

I'll give the example that one of my uncles built a motorcycle out of a garden tractor when he as a teen, the picture I've seen of it was black and white so it must have been a long time ago. Dunno if it ever even was lisenced or if the law would have thought of it as a motorcycle, but it had definitely become one even though it was really clumsy looking and had started off as a garden tractor...

Yo Hawaii, have you forgotten how you were single handedly responsible for getting ebikes banned in Maui? You know, the way you filmed yourself flying that unregistrable home made motorcycle, calling your vehicle an electric bicycle flat out in the face of common sense? Talk about crying out loud for legislative action against ebikes in Maui... And for who wants to look it up, search for Randy Draper... Let's take a closer look at this...

Randy, you know as well as I do that if you put much too big a big motor and limit it's power output/speed to a legal level, you'll still have to pay for it but never get to use it, plus you'll be handicapped by an important weight penalty, all that would be for worse then nothing as the drivetrain's efficiency will be a lot worse compared to an approriately sized one, mostly because the motor will be running outside of it's efficient range, hogging no-load current because it's underloaded... Compound that to the way 47mph means 3Kw to the road on an MTB per Kreuzotter, while 20mph is hardly 1/10th as much.

Overbuilding the electric drive part so the vehicle can go 47mph seems like a really stupid idea, unless the intent is definitely to not build an ebike... Knowing a part of your past, and seeing the apparent present, it just seems rude of you to pose as though you have interest in keeping these things legal. Why are you suggesting electric drive components so the vehicle can go 47 mph? I really can't see a point in it at all, unless the intent is to build a motorcycle. Big 5 pound motor ? Heavy 65 lb Steel frame full suspension Huffy = 65 lbs including batteries for a 40 mile range at 20 MPH ? 92% overall efficiency from 1 to 3600 RPM limited from 250 to 1600 watts by sprocket size, battery voltage, or by the programable controller plus any of the other two current limiting methods.
Lets take another look at the truth. This system has not failed in over 20,000 miles.Easy to produce a 1000 complete ebike units at a cost effictive price.Less moving parts than any other multi geard system ebike. It set the worlds record. Has set the standard for watt hours per mile in the most extream conditions.
Segway lobbied the legislatures and my nice Governor likes all the crowded streets filled with Fords from her families dealership.Eliminating ebikes and adding segways was obviously the Governors right approach. LOL
Mauis new Mayor and some state legislatures may be finding themselves HEROS! if they listen closely when we meet on this issue combined with a new economy and a emergency traffic plan! for MAUI.We have recently recieved 1 million from the county with our Mayors support to go towards saving Honolua Bay and openspace ocean trails. How nice it would be to to get 1 million put aside to provide a way for everyone to view the these beautiful sites? A non profit ebike transportation/open space fund ? A Maui ECO adventure ? amongst a viable new transportation solution.
While there is not a electric law now the new one might as well include these bikes as well to get ev bikes moving.
The smaller one can be used as a spare vehicle when ever there is a accident here that often ties up traffic for more than 5 hours= No island movement!
I ordered one of these today to try a lithium pack on and mabe a 1600 watt motor that weighs less than the one on it.The NEW SPORT of affordable E-dirt bike racing is here ! It may surpass ebike sales by far at this point. ?
http://www.csnstores.com/Razor-15165070-RZR1029.html

http://www.electracross.com/
http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=562
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=ecyclemaui

$400. Delivered!
http://www.csnstores.com/Razor-15165070-RZR1029.html

it's entertaining? i know i get bored and i "race" people that don't know it. my commute isn't that long but 10 miles with nothing else but the wind can get rather tiresome.

I almost never see other cyclists (this year there seems to be fewer than last). When I do, unless there's a reason not to, I do try and "race" just for fun. I read a signature here I liked: "If two bikes are going in the same direction, it's a race".

I almost never see other cyclists (this year there seems to be fewer than last). When I do, unless there's a reason not to, I do try and "race" just for fun. I read a signature here I liked: "If two bikes are going in the same direction, it's a race". "If any vehicle going the same direction,its a race".

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1363294199598759645&q=ecyclemaui&total=6&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=4

But if something behaves as a motorcycle, how is it wrong to think of it as a motorcycle?


Because under the law it's not. Just because something looks and behaves a certain way it doesn't mean it is what you think it is. Looks can be deceiving.

Example: One would think that a 4 wheel bicycle would be street legal. Surprise! It's not! Under the law, it's not a legal bicycle. Even though it has pedals, is human powered, has steering, bike tries and mostly bike components, it's not legal on the street (in most areas).

An electric scooter is more analogous to a segway.Not at all. If you mean "scooter" as a stand-up that can be kicked, then it is a hybrid, and the choice to exercise, or not, and the choice of fuel (nuclear/coal/nat gas/hydro/wind/solar etc., or food) remains... Segways are useless without power onboard.

Most kick scoots w/power-assist cost a small fraction of the Segway.

Apples and Oranges in so many ways.

tks

Lock
human-electric hybrid pedestrian

looks like a PITA to have to lug that cell around. No diff.than carrying a laptop, or a pedal bike seat... Easier, cheaper and cleaner to plug in for energy, rather than cook/pay for a meal to gain calories for transport.

tks

Lock
human-electric hybrid pedestrian

On the way home today an older guy with an electric front hub on his mtb snuck up behind me and dusted me...I thank gawd every time I see folks on two wheels. Motorized or not. On the sidewalks or on the streets. EVery one up on two wheels rather than in four wheels makes the streets safer for EVery one else.

Compliment the old farts on their e-vision. Race `em if you must, but concede graciously. :)

tks

Lock
human-electric hybrid pedestrian

my nightmare is the day all the lazy people of the world figure out they can clog up the MUP with these things and electric bikes and whatnot.So, EVeryone is travelling around on little two-wheeled, light-weight vehicles, at bicycle speeds, quietly and with no smoking tailpipes? Oh, The Horrors, The Horrors!

tks

Lock
human-electric hybrid pedestrian

Except a two wheeled device that holds 50mph on it's own on the flat is clearly not an electric bicycle, it's a motorcycle...

Hey look, it's a bunch of motorcycles...
http://www.ihpva.org/Races/Portland2004/

50.1mph for 1 hour on pedal power only:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=aKUQU6XjiyA

so can i legally tell those segway freaks to get the hell off the MUP?
they seem to have segway training classes around the art museunm here in philthy from time to time (i see them on the way home). they have never gotten in my way yet but i could see if these things increase in popularity they will become a big nuisance.
i don't even undersatnd them. do they even go over 10mph? my nightmare is the day all the lazy people of the world figure out they can clog up the MUP with these things and electric bikes and whatnot.
Dunno what a MUP is... Or why someone might be confused about the diff between power-assist and the Segway, but if a MUP is anything like the Galloping Goose, then power-assist is OK:
http://www.crd.bc.ca/parks/cycling.htm

tks
Lock
human-electric hybrid pedestrian

when it burns you know it's working Quaint. :) When lungs burn in urban smoggy canyons, is this the "burning" you speak of? Maybe not. Otherwise, burn on Friend, and gawd bless!

Lock
human-electric hybrid pedestrian

Because under the law it's not. Just because something looks and behaves a certain way it doesn't mean it is what you think it is. Looks can be deceiving.
Example: One would think that a 4 wheel bicycle would be street legal. Surprise! It's not! Under the law, it's not a legal bicycle. Even though it has pedals, is human powered, has steering, bike tries and mostly bike components, it's not legal on the street (in most areas).
This is the sad part folks. Seriously, what is "under the law"... really?
Don't we need to move on? Pretend like it is a new century?
You are reading this, who are here to effect change?

Hey look, it's a bunch of motorcycles...
http://www.ihpva.org/Races/Portland2004/

50.1mph for 1 hour on pedal power only:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=aKUQU6XjiyA


Speed record HPV goes that speed on human power, not on it's own power. It takes them about a lap to speed up. Your vehicle goes this speed within seconds despite a massive <50kg weight, keeps up with other motorcycles in urban traffic, goes up solid hills at 40mph, all this on it's own power since rider input consists of twisting the throttle, and pedals are present to con stupid cops. If your vehicle had anything even remotely close to humanly feasible power, it wouldn't go as fast, wouldn't go up that hill at 40mph and wouldn't keep up with motorcycles,

Power assists are mostly limited to less then a third of your vehicle's claimed top speed, and even this is faster then most cyclists on the roads...

So if I ride my ebike beside a streamlined HPV and we're both going 50mph on the highway, what exactly do you have a problem with? (posted limit 55mph)

Because under the law it's not. Just because something looks and behaves a certain way it doesn't mean it is what you think it is. Looks can be deceiving.

Example: One would think that a 4 wheel bicycle would be street legal. Surprise! It's not! Under the law, it's not a legal bicycle. Even though it has pedals, is human powered, has steering, bike tries and mostly bike components, it's not legal on the street (in most areas).
If motorists barely tolerate 2 wheel bicycles how do you think they are going to handle slow moving 4 wheel (bi)cycles taking up a third of the lane?

4 wheel "bikes" don't take up any more room than 3 wheeled ones (width wise of course) if the 4 wheeler is designed to carry only one person or maybe two in a tandem layout.

One problem is that most 4 wheelers are designed to be side by side 2 seaters and actually end up using half of a normal car lane, not one third.