Foo - North Korea trip -- Photos! (56k beware)

I'm not sure if this is going to work -- never tried hosting images off Flickr before, but now I'm trying to be all hip and Web 2.0.

Edit: It works! Hooray!
Edit 2: And thanks to whichever mod changed the title.

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On the plane, an old Soviet Ilyushin-62, from Beijing to Pyongyang. I needed no reminding to fasten my belt.

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Arrival! Interestingly, the picture of Kim Il Sung beaming was introduced around the country after his death (July 1994). Before that, portraits of him were much more stern. The airport had the old portrait until just a few years ago.

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View of Giant Kim Il Sung statue on Mansu Hill, Pyongyang. TV tower in the distance.

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gbcb and Kim Sr.

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Cool shadow over Pyongyang.

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In May Day stadium (150,000 seats), before the Mass Games. Each one of those little pixels in the stands is a kid holding up a placard. I think there are 20,000 of them in total. Anyway, lots. Watching the pre-game "calibration" was, to that point, one of the coolest things I had ever seen.

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But then the Games started.

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Mass Games performers

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More Mass Games performers

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It got a bit strange with the dancing eggs came out.

More coming....

Those eggs are kinda fruity.

Seriously though, amazing photos so far. Will you be making a write up of your trip as well?

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Mass Taekwondo demonstration

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Lobby of the Yanggakdo Hotel, Pyongyang

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One of the more improbable finds on the trip. The casino, in the basement of the Yanggakdo Hotel, is run by Stanley Ho, a huge casino tycoon from Macau. The basement also includes a "sauna" that provides extra "services" (I did not partake...). This basement is off-limits to Koreans, and is staffed entirely by extremely bored-looking Chinese.

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View from my hotel room. The giant pyramid is the Ryugyong Hotel: 105 floors and 300 metres tall, but a concrete shell. Construction stopped in the late 80s / early 90s

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Another shot from my hotel room. That's the Tower of the Juche Idea, (170m tall), built to commemorate Kim Il Sung's ideology

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Me with guides, outside Kim Il Sung's mausoleum (hence the jacket and tie): Miss Choe on the left, Mr. Oh on the right. Both were friendly, helpful, and just all-around great companions on the trip.

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Pyongyang Metro! I had read a lot of conspiracy theories about how it's obviously for show, and that there are only really two stations (all foreigners are shown the same two stops). I'd like to put an end to that theory. While I'm sure that the two stops we saw are the nicest-looking of all the stations, we saw people streaming in and out of Metro stations all over the city.

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Pyongyang Metro chandeliers

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Soldiers and cadets at the birthplace of Kim Il Sung. Usually we weren't allowed to take pictures of soldiers, but the guides let us snap away here. Not sure why.

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We took a trip up to Mt. Myohyang, a famous scenic area. The scenery was beautiful, and the water absolutely crystal-clear. Unfortunately, I forgot to do the Shadiyah pose among the trees...

Those eggs are kinda fruity.

Seriously though, amazing photos so far. Will you be making a write up of your trip as well?


Thanks! I do intend to do a full write-up of the trip, but that will take a little while.

Moving along...

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More pretty scenery

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A Buddhist temple in the mountains. Much of it had been flattened in the Korean War (like most of Korea, really...) but there were a few older buildings around.

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More temple

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Our hotel in the mountains. The inside of this hotel was straight out of The Shining. It also had a huge karaoke room where, fuelled by something called "Wild Grape Liquor" at 1 euro per bottle, I sang "Only You" with Mr. Oh, the tour guide.

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At a circus, which was fantastic, aside from the bear... which was really, really sad to watch.

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They've built a series of permanent outdoor sets for filming movies. Here is the standard Korean War-era US Army den of iniquity.

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Pyongyang Traffic Lady! In my humble opinion, vastly superior to traffic lights.

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A sack race in the park on May Day (May 1). It was amazing seeing the locals having an utterly unscripted, really good time.

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Gathering for a photo, May Day

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One of my travel companions was in high demand

Cool. :)

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Army jeep and mural

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Cherry blossoms with Triumphal Arch and Ryugyong Hotel

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Funfair! We went on a roller coaster, which was utterly terrifying: the seatbelt was two pieces of rope that you had to tie yourself.

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View from Juche Tower

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Juche Tower up close

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Monument in front of Juche Tower, with Ryugyong Hotel in the distance (I became a bit obsessed with the Ryugyong Hotel...)

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In front of the Monument to Party Foundation. In addition to the hammer and sickle (or hoe), there is the writing brush, representing the intellectuals. This, so the story goes, was an addition by Kim Il Sung himself. The Hammer/Hoe/Brush logo, the symbol of the Korean Worker's Party, is everywhere. Interestingly, there are actually two other parties, but we were told that they operate on a "friendship" system, rather than an adversarial one. Take that as you will...

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Out at the seaside now, near the city of Nampo. This woman is wearing a traditional Korean dress. I was a bit worried about restrictions on taking pictures of people, so don't really have many pictures of them from the front.

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Kim Jong Il at the West Sea Barrage, built to prevent flooding and for irrigation purposes.

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I couldn't resist. The framing is a bit off, but there you go.

This picture made me LOL

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By the way, mods -- could you put a "56k beware" warning on the thread title? Thanks...


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We weren't allowed to take many pictures of the countryside, but I did manage to get this one. The village is fairly typical of many we saw that day. All had communal wells out in front, and no electricity. Other villages we saw were noticeably poorer (houses in much rougher shape), but we couldn't take pictures of those. There were also villages that had clearly been recently renovated, and looked quite sharp.

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Mural in front of the American Atrocities Museum. A sobering place, but it was hard to tell what was fact and what was exaggeration (edit: or outright fiction). Over the course of the trip, we heard several times that the General MacArthur-led UN troops ("troops of the US imperialist aggressors and their satellites") had used biological weapons during the conflict -- I'm not so sure that's true. What is true is that a staggering number of bombs were dropped, and that a lot of these involved napalm. That stuff is nasty enough on its own without any biological weapons too.

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At the Liberation monument in Pyongyang, Ryugyong Hotel (of course) in background

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Liberation monument

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Liberation monument

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Liberation monument

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Pyongyang by night from my window

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Pyongyang by night from my window -- I find that all the apartment lights having the same colour looks eerie

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Juche Tower and May Day stadium at night (also from my window)

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Our guide at the Great Fatherland Liberation War (Korean War) museum

White Rabbit! Nice pictures.

Wrapping up here...

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Pyongyang streets, from Grand People's Study Hall, a sort of huge library / lecture hall place that's open to the public (if they have time off from work to visit it, that is...). I had heard a lot about Pyongyang's streets being "deserted", but they seemed full of people to me. There were few cars, but that's sort of to be expected. Not as many bicycles as I would have expected, but I imagine there are restrictions on bike ownership.

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Scarily talented kids at a Children's Palace in Pyongyang. We were told that children go to school in the mornings, and go to these "Palaces" in the afternoons for extracurricular activities like painting, music, and even computers.

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More kids performing. They like their accordions.

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More...

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Mural at the Children's Palace

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Girls playing outside the Children's Palace

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Girl outside the Children's Palace, with Juche Tower

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Relay races

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Fairly typical bicycle, with rim generator light. Newer models have hub generators. Bikes in the DPRK (North Korea) are in much better condition than their Chinese counterparts.

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Terrible picture of me, but good picture of guides. In front of the Beijing - Pyongyang train in Pyongyang station.



And that's about it. Hope you enjoyed them!

Actually, I have hundreds more photos, but haven't had time to go through them all! All in all, it was a fantastic and fascinating trip that really put a human face on the country for me. I would have loved to have been able to take more photos, but it was not always possible to take pictures of things that I found interesting, or even beautiful. I would absolutely encourage anyone interested to visit -- and Americans are occasionally allowed to visit on somehwat shorter trips (there are a few such trips this year).

I will try to post a longer travelogue at some point, but will more likely do that on my own web site and post a link here.

out-freaking-standing!

i can hardly wait to get to the east. thanks! :beer:

Awe. Some. Thank you so much for sharing these, gb, you have had a unique experience! Wowzers.

Thanks, guys, I'm glad you enjoyed the photos. It is definitely an interesting place. Strangely enough, it was more of a shock coming back into the "real world" than going there in the first place. I suppose that's because I was expecting North Korea to be very different, but wasn't really thinking about the change on the way back. China is always loud, but North Korea is so quiet that it seemed even more so when the train crossed into Dandong, the massive Chinese border town.

So should I be worried that I'm already looking at itineraries for other trips to North Korea? :D

Dear Leader thanks you for your patronage :D :D :D

Thanks for taking the time to share your experience with us :beer:

Very fascinating. There's so much we don't see of N. Korea here in the western hemisphere. I'm glad to see, contrary to my perceptions from the news and other reading, that there is culture in that country.

I'd be interested to here a little bit about what your trip was for and how it went.

Very cool pictures. Having the courage to take ANY photos there is impressive.From what I've heard and read,officials don't take too kindly to folkes taking photos there.

It's not like that at all -- and in some places pictures are even encouraged. They are very sensitive, however, of pictures that could be seen as presenting a bad image of the country overseas. Also, military stuff is an obvious no-no for security reasons.

The thing that's important to remember about North Korea is that it is like it is for a reason: Kim Jong Il is, and Kim Il Sung was, very rational. Much of Korea's history has been a story of trying to remain strong in the face of massive, powerful neighbours, and the current system of government is in many ways a continuation of that tradition. And when you read about MacArthur's plans to bomb the Chinese-Korean border with 34 atomic bombs, and to lay down a layer of radioactive cobalt that would have prevented the Chinese from entering the war (one source here (http://www.nytimes.com/books/00/07/02/reviews/000702.02kennedt.html?_r=1&oref=slogin)) -- in addition to the degree to which the UN/US forces absolutely flattened the country -- it's easier to understand their paranoia.

I'm not defending the Kim dynasty BUT it must be said that, especially in the years immediately following the Korean War, when the North led the South in redevelopment, Kim Il Sung's government did an amazing job of building a country from zilch.

Anyway, the point of this is that it's quite OK to take pictures, just not everything :)

Thanks qbcb, great pictures. Please post the link if you write a travelogue on your web site.

--J

Wow, looks like a fantastic place to live.

It's not like that at all -- and in some places pictures are even encouraged. They are very sensitive, however, of pictures that could be seen as presenting a bad image of the country overseas. Also, military stuff is an obvious no-no for security reasons.

The thing that's important to remember about North Korea is that it is like it is for a reason: Kim Jong Il is, and Kim Il Sung was, very rational. Much of Korea's history has been a story of trying to remain strong in the face of massive, powerful neighbours, and the current system of government is in many ways a continuation of that tradition. And when you read about MacArthur's plans to bomb the Chinese-Korean border with 34 atomic bombs, and to lay down a layer of radioactive cobalt that would have prevented the Chinese from entering the war (one source here (http://www.nytimes.com/books/00/07/02/reviews/000702.02kennedt.html?_r=1&oref=slogin)) -- in addition to the degree to which the UN/US forces absolutely flattened the country -- it's easier to understand their paranoia.

I'm not defending the Kim dynasty BUT it must be said that, especially in the years immediately following the Korean War, when the North led the South in redevelopment, Kim Il Sung's government did an amazing job of building a country from zilch.

Anyway, the point of this is that it's quite OK to take pictures, just not everything :)

I'm sure you're aware that MacA was a General that understood the concept of 'Total War', and although his methods may have seemed barbaric, they probably would have worked. Instead, he wasn't allowed to do that, the Chinese (Soviet-backed) Communists did enter the war, and Korea became the battleground.

It's entirely likely that, after the Inchon invasion and the liberation of Seoul, the North Koreans would have been pushed out of S. Korea, and the war could have ended then and there. With the invasion by the ChiCom's, it forced MacA's hand, and you can't blame him for wanting to limit American and UN casualties but utilizing an effective tool of war (the atomic bomb).

Great pictures, by the way. You have a great eye, and it's a tremendous education to see how North Koreans live. But BostonFixed...I'd never want to live there.

Wow, looks like a fantastic place to live.
Yeah, communism is wonderful...lol

Cool! I'm glad you had fun!

Gbc, Thank you so much for your post and pictures. You are sharing a part of the world with us that few of us in the West will ever visit and that is presented to us in a very one sided way. I really enjoyed the pictures of the children. It was much different than what I expected North Korea to look like.

Funny...the pictures of the children are exactly what I expected them to look like.

Nice picture report.

I assume you must have seen the "good" sections of North Korea;

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'scuse me, you have something on the side of your mouth. No, left. The other side ... forget it."


Seriously though, awesome pictures. I envy you.

Pete:

You kind of proved my point for me with your links. Sadly, you can go to lots of places America and take pictures like the ones you linked to in your post. My parents run a voluteer food bank in East Texas. I get to hear stories of kids coming in barefoot and coatless in freezing weather and this less than an hour from where I live in luxury by world standards. I was expecting all of North Korea to look like that, and was glad that it did not and that the children playing seemed to be smiling.

Life is made up of good and bad, was just glad that the OP was able to show us some of the good that exists even in North Korea.

Life is made up of good and bad, was just glad that the OP was able to show us some of the good that exists even in North Korea.
There's something to that. But it's also worth noting that in America people can take pictures where ever they want. No one is limited to the guided tour. I think that's the point a couple of us are trying to make.

Fantastic!

Way kewl pics - good job!

There's something to that. But it's also worth noting that in America people can take pictures where ever they want. No one is limited to the guided tour. I think that's the point a couple of us are trying to make.
If you want to read about the nasty underbelly of the DPRK regime, a good place to start is by picking up the book "Aquariums of Pyongyang". However, I think there is value to be had in the trip to NK gbcb got to go on. I think its important that people realize that the avg. North Korean citizen isn't evil, and is just trying to live his or her life and have some fun just like us. I'm envious of gbcb, and would like to try and take a trip to the DPRK someday myself!

I take you had no problems with your camera or memory card(s) being confisicated

He was provided a guide and a driver, escorted to gov't-approved locales, and told what he could and could not photograph. I'd assume if he had taken any pics that weren't approved, his gear would have been seized.

Wow! Thanks gbcb! A first-hand perspective like yours, even if you may have been encouraged to emphasize the positive and ignore the negative, is fascinating.

Really nice pictures, thanks a lot.

But the statues and the whole feeling brings back memories from east block, gosh how similar is all that $hit down to the metro station and public mass shows.

Interesting! Not the place I would like to live though. Great pictures though!

Wow.....great photos! Thanks for sharing...:)

Thats where they should place the Survivor show next time. And not in the city, but in the starving country side. Survive one month there, thats all. No stupid tasks and beach playing, just make it out alive.

The OP took pictures of what is pretty much a scripted tourist attraction. I cannot believe what you saw was the norm, but I certainly expect it. Note that hte OP was not allowed to take pictures of the country. Wonder if the children there are smiling too...

Yeah, communism is wonderful...lol

Yeah, all those half finished buildings would be great to live in.

How is it that you were able to travel to PRNK? I am sure there are ways such as some do here in the States to travel to Cuba. Just curious as to your choice of "vacation spots".:)


Pics are really good and offer a perspective I would only guess as the norm for western tourists. You know, no pics of run down villages, that kind of stuff. Pics the PRNK would want westerners to see.

Very cool! Makes me want to visit!

N Korea doesn't look remotely like I imagined!

Really?

I think his point was more that pictures don't necessarily tell you all there is to know about a place than a direct contradiction of what life is like in the DPRK. Really, I think gbcb's follow-up post hints more at the state of things than his pictures show, but I'm still impressed to see the scale of this May Day celebration.

Of course, I imagine this show of civic pride is an unusual extravagance in a country that has very weak trade relations and not particularly impressive natural resources. I remember reading somewhere that often when the DPRK had important international visitors to Pyongyang, they would round up drivers to create fake traffic jams, which believe it or not, is a sign of prosperity.

Similarly, you should see some of the celebrations the USSR used to put on. Actually, pictures should be pretty easy to find if you google around for a bit.

I was once a "Sovietologist." And I think gbcb's pics are right in line with what I know about the former Soviet Union and former East Bloc, in general. There is good and bad everywhere. But in controlled societies, they only want the good to be seen. Same here, to an extent. It's embarrasing to the US to continue to be lagging in the world on education, for instance. Which is why gov't keeps pumping money into science and math education, rather than trying to work to alter people's perceptions of what education means, and how to achieve it. And, it isn't very easy in some cities in the US to take pics of tall and unusual buildings anymore. Think about it. Or have some of you forgotten?

<steppin' down off of soapbox>

gbcb, fanastic pics! Thanks for sharing! And I was very patient with my, go ahead and say it, DIALUP. :mad:

Can't wait to read the travelogue. :) :beer:

I
know the US is as adept at subterfuge as any country on Earth. I know for a fact what is going on over "there" and what is reported in our daily news has few similarities. We get fed what they want to feed us.

Sorry for the delay in responding, all -- it's been a bit of a hectic day.



I'm sure you're aware that MacA was a General that understood the concept of 'Total War', and although his methods may have seemed barbaric, they probably would have worked. Instead, he wasn't allowed to do that, the Chinese (Soviet-backed) Communists did enter the war, and Korea became the battleground.


Yup, no question that it would have worked. But from the North Korean point of view, you've got this guy willing to bomb and irradiate the hell out of your country to win what you see as a war of independence and liberation. Add to that the fact that North Koreans really believe that the Americans started the war, and the paranoia is real. But I think that basically we agree with each other, so no matter :D


I assume you must have seen the "good" sections of North Korea;

Absolutely, though we did see some bits that were extremely poor -- just not allowed to take pictures. I shudder to think how people live in the areas that don't line the tourist highways. As it was, the countryside relies almost entirely on manual labour. I saw some tractors, but far more really unhappy-looking skinny cows, and even more people with shovels.



My reaction was that his pictures presented a very one-sided view of North Korea, i.e. one that the state and his handlers wanted him to see.

Perhaps my opinion is colored by the other pictures that I've seen that were taken by tourists that managed to capture some of the reality behind the facade.

The pictures do indeed represent the North Korea I was meant to see, and are therefore naturally one-sided. But, as I have mentioned, I did see much more that I was not allowed to photograph. I saw pretty much everything shown in those photos you link to, but out of concern for my guides (they're the ones that get in trouble, not me), I chose not to push the limits with regards to photography. I went to the country fully expecting a propaganda tour, because that is what any tour to North Korea is. I was pleasantly surprised, however, that as the week went on and the guides relaxed, we were able to see much more of what I guess you could call the "real" North Korea.


I take you had no problems with your camera or memory card(s) being confisicated

No big problems -- the customs official asked me to delete two photos, both of the train we were riding on. Not sure why he chose those two, but there you go.



I'd assume if he had taken any pics that weren't approved, his gear would have been seized.
It would probably take a lot for my gear to have been seized. More to the point, a tourist taking pictures of lots of stuff he's not supposed to take pictures of can get the North Korean guides in real trouble. They're the ones that are supposed to be in charge, and they're the ones that are in hot water if, for instance, I publish unflattering or sensitive pictures in the a magazine or newspaper.



The OP took pictures of what is pretty much a scripted tourist attraction. I cannot believe what you saw was the norm, but I certainly expect it. Note that hte OP was not allowed to take pictures of the country. Wonder if the children there are smiling too...
Yup, pretty much scripted. I should say that of the many scruffy-looking kids I saw in the countryside (and some of them were pretty darn scruffy), none looked malnourished. And they were far too scruffy to have been placed there by the government ;). The famines that hit North Korea ended about 5 or 6 years ago, so the worst is over. I'm wouldn't be surprised if it's still an issue in some of the more remote parts of the country, however.



How is it that you were able to travel to PRNK? I am sure there are ways such as some do here in the States to travel to Cuba. Just curious as to your choice of "vacation spots"
I'm Canadian, so there aren't really any restrictions on my travel to the country. Occasionally, the North Korean (DPRK -- "D" for "democratic" ;)) government allows Americans to visit, so there were a bunch in Pyongyang at the same time. But they were paying more than I was for half the number of days!

Thanks to everyone else for the kind comments! And especially to VV, who actually waited for all the pictures to load on dialup :D :beer:


One other thing I'd like to mention. My roommate on the trip lived for five or six years in the Soviet Union, and travelled extensively around the Eastern Bloc during Soviet times. He said that one thing he always felt there was a feeling of oppression, one which he found entirely lacking in North Korea. Of course, this was based on a week of travelling in a place where he didn't speak the language, but I found it interesting nonetheless.

It's embarrasing to the US to continue to be lagging in the world on education, for instance. Which is why gov't keeps pumping money into science and math education, rather than trying to work to alter people's perceptions of what education means, and how to achieve it.
There's lots of money for science education? I must be looking in all the wrong places. From what I hear, NSF education grants work out to enough to buy your students a lab notebook each.

I was once a "Sovietologist." And I think gbcb's pics are right in line with what I know about the former Soviet Union and former East Bloc, in general. There is good and bad everywhere. But in controlled societies, they only want the good to be seen.

You are absolutely right. And it was even true for investing - better spent the money on repairing buildings than on phone lines, water grid, electrical grid - since the phone lines are not visible to tourists.

I could tell stories for weeks:)

Wow... those pictures look like they came straight out of the Ministry of Propaganda.
:rolleyes: