lxpatterson
05-10-07, 04:11 PM
In view of both Ullirich and Basso, is it possible that Lance is not involved in this ****storm? How can he be clean in view that #2 and #3 for the last few TdF are dirty as hell.
Road Bike Racing - In view of recent events...lance is clean?
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05-10-07, 04:15 PM
He's a mutant.
bigskymacadam
05-10-07, 04:17 PM
he's clean right now ;)
Bacciagalupe
05-10-07, 04:40 PM
Everything I've heard so far seems circumstantial.
I agree it is possible. But unless there is actual, tangible, verifiable evidence, I see no reason to accuse him of doping. Same for any rider of any era.
I agree it is possible. But unless there is actual, tangible, verifiable evidence, I see no reason to accuse him of doping. Same for any rider of any era.
Pizza Man
05-10-07, 04:49 PM
He was clean, it's just that his Trek was that much better than all of the other riders bikes. :)
CastIron
05-10-07, 04:52 PM
I disagree. I think at this point it's presumptive than any serious competitor in the Pro Tour has/was/is/prepared to dope. It strikes me as foolish to think otherwise. Having said that, it puts the dwindling number of 'clean' riders in the dubious position of proving a negative. Which is where Lance is. And Floyd. That covers every TDF winner this century.
Cypress
05-10-07, 05:13 PM
It took until NOW for you guys to question this?!?!?!?
Blaireau
05-10-07, 05:21 PM
In view of both Ullirich and Basso, is it possible that Lance is not involved in this ****storm? How can he be clean in view that #2 and #3 for the last few TdF are dirty as hell.
Same logic as ever: Lance Armstrong is clean because he's an American! Just like Landis and Hamilton :D
Enough said.
Same logic as ever: Lance Armstrong is clean because he's an American! Just like Landis and Hamilton :D
Enough said.
Blaireau
05-10-07, 05:22 PM
It took until NOW for you guys to question this?!?!?!?
lol, :D
lol, :D
Namenda
05-10-07, 05:29 PM
Was Lance clean? Don't know.
Were Indurain or Hinault clean? Don't know, either. How about Merckx? Depends on your definition of "clean".
Pantani? Dirty. Hamilton? Dirty. Ullrich? Dirty. Landis? Probably dirty, too.
I guess my point is, are we now assuming guilt by association? Without a positive drug test, or a credible witness that can say "yes, he's dirty", doesn't anyone think it may be a bit of a stretch to call everyone guilty?
I've heard some dopers use the excuse that they had to do it "to survive". Although I don't like the choice of words, I can understand the meaning. The raises the question...were these guys trying to survive in a climate where all the top riders were dopers, or were they simply not good enough, and felt they had to cheat to compete?
Were Indurain or Hinault clean? Don't know, either. How about Merckx? Depends on your definition of "clean".
Pantani? Dirty. Hamilton? Dirty. Ullrich? Dirty. Landis? Probably dirty, too.
I guess my point is, are we now assuming guilt by association? Without a positive drug test, or a credible witness that can say "yes, he's dirty", doesn't anyone think it may be a bit of a stretch to call everyone guilty?
I've heard some dopers use the excuse that they had to do it "to survive". Although I don't like the choice of words, I can understand the meaning. The raises the question...were these guys trying to survive in a climate where all the top riders were dopers, or were they simply not good enough, and felt they had to cheat to compete?
reef58
05-10-07, 05:43 PM
Same logic as ever: Lance Armstrong is clean because he's an American! Just like Landis and Hamilton :D
Enough said.
I think you are searching for red herrings. There are a few that think that, but from what I see most agree they are all most likely guilty. It seems you have an axe to grind.
Richard
Enough said.
I think you are searching for red herrings. There are a few that think that, but from what I see most agree they are all most likely guilty. It seems you have an axe to grind.
Richard
bdcheung
05-10-07, 05:56 PM
Nobody can prove that Lance was "dirty". Ergo, he is clean.
Trevor98
05-10-07, 06:00 PM
Sadly the world may never know.
Blaireau
05-10-07, 06:17 PM
How about Merckx? Depends on your definition of "clean".
Merckx was suspended for doping for a season: does that fit your definition of clean ?!? :D
Merckx was suspended for doping for a season: does that fit your definition of clean ?!? :D
Blaireau
05-10-07, 06:19 PM
I think you are searching for red herrings. There are a few that think that, but from what I see most agree they are all most likely guilty. It seems you have an axe to grind.
Richard
Check BF's; check the reaction on Landis, on Lance; what's amazing is that there is a double standard based on nationality; it ain't no red herring. :D
Richard
Check BF's; check the reaction on Landis, on Lance; what's amazing is that there is a double standard based on nationality; it ain't no red herring. :D
dmotoguy
05-10-07, 06:22 PM
it has nothing to do with nationality, but a lot to do with facts.
reef58
05-10-07, 06:26 PM
I disagree. Show me the posts where the masses are claiming Tyler is innocent. Reading through the Floyd posts, and I said he was guilty last year, the most contention arises from the testing procedures, not necessarily Floyds guilt or innocence. Lance has never been caught, so I can't fault people for thinking he is innocent although I disagree with them.
I could survey the public, and likely find people that think the world is flat, martians are living among us, OJ is innocent, and clouds are made from marshmallows. I don't think it is because it is the American way to think. You will never get 100% agreement on any subject ever regardless of nationality.
Richard
I could survey the public, and likely find people that think the world is flat, martians are living among us, OJ is innocent, and clouds are made from marshmallows. I don't think it is because it is the American way to think. You will never get 100% agreement on any subject ever regardless of nationality.
Richard
Namenda
05-10-07, 06:28 PM
Merckx was suspended for doping for a season: does that fit your definition of clean ?!? :D
And yet, he's still lauded as the greatest of all time. I understand that rules were different in his day, and use of stimulants was rampant. Still, though, by what standards should modern-day riders be judged? If David Millar suddenly starts flying up mountains, and wins 9 TdF's in a row, is he the greatest ever? Or just a (possibly) reformed doper? If Pantani had cleaned up his act, rather than killing himself, would he be recognized as amongst the best ever?
Hypotheticals aside, how can we judge Armstrong as a doper, when no proof has been presented? Other riders have been nailed with rock-solid, incontrovertible evidence. Armstrong hasn't. I, personally, can't consider him a doper. If damning evidence is presented in the future, I reserve the right to change my mind.
And yet, he's still lauded as the greatest of all time. I understand that rules were different in his day, and use of stimulants was rampant. Still, though, by what standards should modern-day riders be judged? If David Millar suddenly starts flying up mountains, and wins 9 TdF's in a row, is he the greatest ever? Or just a (possibly) reformed doper? If Pantani had cleaned up his act, rather than killing himself, would he be recognized as amongst the best ever?
Hypotheticals aside, how can we judge Armstrong as a doper, when no proof has been presented? Other riders have been nailed with rock-solid, incontrovertible evidence. Armstrong hasn't. I, personally, can't consider him a doper. If damning evidence is presented in the future, I reserve the right to change my mind.
Blaireau
05-10-07, 06:29 PM
it has nothing to do with nationality, but a lot to do with facts.
Fact: Landis tested positive. Fact: he was largely considered innocent by a majority of US posters on BF's despite the tests and his transparent BS, oh, I'm sorry wrong initials, PR (see sig line).
Fact: many other riders facing less dauting odds were automatically considered guilty without a positive test such as Basso or Ullrich. (This long Before Basso confessed to attempted doping, btw).
You figure it out.
Fact: Landis tested positive. Fact: he was largely considered innocent by a majority of US posters on BF's despite the tests and his transparent BS, oh, I'm sorry wrong initials, PR (see sig line).
Fact: many other riders facing less dauting odds were automatically considered guilty without a positive test such as Basso or Ullrich. (This long Before Basso confessed to attempted doping, btw).
You figure it out.
Miked976
05-10-07, 06:30 PM
Come on, your head is in the sand if you think Lance was clean. Think of the guys he was pummeling, Basso, Hamilton, Ullrich and they were doped!
Namenda
05-10-07, 06:32 PM
Fact: Landis tested positive. Fact: he was largely considered innocent by a majority of US posters on BF's despite the tests and his transparent BS, oh, I'm sorry wrong initials, PR (see sig line).
Fact: many other riders facing less dauting odds were automatically considered guilty without a positive test such as Basso or Ullrich. (This long Before Basso confessed to attempted doping, btw).
You figure it out.
I don't know about that. A lot of folks here were ardent supporters of both Basso and Ullrich. They both have faced considerable ridicule lately, but it has been somewhat deserved based upon their long-standing protestations of innocence.
Fact: many other riders facing less dauting odds were automatically considered guilty without a positive test such as Basso or Ullrich. (This long Before Basso confessed to attempted doping, btw).
You figure it out.
I don't know about that. A lot of folks here were ardent supporters of both Basso and Ullrich. They both have faced considerable ridicule lately, but it has been somewhat deserved based upon their long-standing protestations of innocence.
bdcheung
05-10-07, 06:33 PM
Come on, your head is in the sand if you think Lance was clean. Think of the guys he was pummeling, Basso, Hamilton, Ullrich and they were doped!
What a faulty argument. So just because Lance beat guys who have been/could be convicted of doping, he must have doped too? That's completely nonsensical.
What a faulty argument. So just because Lance beat guys who have been/could be convicted of doping, he must have doped too? That's completely nonsensical.
Keith99
05-10-07, 06:36 PM
Merckx was suspended for doping for a season: does that fit your definition of clean ?!? :D
What season would that be?
What season would that be?
dmotoguy
05-10-07, 06:44 PM
Fact: Landis tested positive. Fact: he was largely considered innocent by a majority of US posters on BF's despite the tests and his transparent BS, oh, I'm sorry wrong initials, PR (see sig line).
Fact: many other riders facing less dauting odds were automatically considered guilty without a positive test such as Basso or Ullrich. (This long Before Basso confessed to attempted doping, btw).
You figure it out.
Fact: Landis' Case is not over, so we can both hold our judgement until then. You must have a lot more facts about his case than even he does.
I gave Basso and Ullrich both the benifit of the doubt. All riders are innocent until proven guilty in my mind.
Fact: many other riders facing less dauting odds were automatically considered guilty without a positive test such as Basso or Ullrich. (This long Before Basso confessed to attempted doping, btw).
You figure it out.
Fact: Landis' Case is not over, so we can both hold our judgement until then. You must have a lot more facts about his case than even he does.
I gave Basso and Ullrich both the benifit of the doubt. All riders are innocent until proven guilty in my mind.
dmotoguy
05-10-07, 06:48 PM
What season would that be?
it was just the giro of 69
it was just the giro of 69
Blaireau
05-10-07, 06:51 PM
I don't know about that.
Obviously.
Check BF. Check the Flyod Sticky's. Check the whacko sig lines or sub lettering under some avatars. "free floyd" "Riding behind Lance."... Etc, etc, don't see much of those for say Basso or Ullrich...
Do some reading before you come back to me with an automated "I don't think so reply..." Ah, nevermind.
Obviously.
Check BF. Check the Flyod Sticky's. Check the whacko sig lines or sub lettering under some avatars. "free floyd" "Riding behind Lance."... Etc, etc, don't see much of those for say Basso or Ullrich...
Do some reading before you come back to me with an automated "I don't think so reply..." Ah, nevermind.
'nother
05-10-07, 06:51 PM
I think he attempted to be clean...
Blaireau
05-10-07, 06:55 PM
What a faulty argument. So just because Lance beat guys who have been/could be convicted of doping, he must have doped too? That's completely nonsensical.
Incorrect. Your response is nonsense, and you are just displaying you utter ignorance. Anyone who knows anything about pro cycling, knows that Lance doped. They may choose for whatever reason not to publicize this conviction, but that's another story.
Of course its true that a "clean" rider could not compete and crush doped riders like lance did. But it goes well beyond that; a clean rider cannot, I repeat cannot shoot for a podium spot in the TdF. Everyone in the peloton knows that -- regardless of whether they are doping or not. Wake up dude!
Incorrect. Your response is nonsense, and you are just displaying you utter ignorance. Anyone who knows anything about pro cycling, knows that Lance doped. They may choose for whatever reason not to publicize this conviction, but that's another story.
Of course its true that a "clean" rider could not compete and crush doped riders like lance did. But it goes well beyond that; a clean rider cannot, I repeat cannot shoot for a podium spot in the TdF. Everyone in the peloton knows that -- regardless of whether they are doping or not. Wake up dude!
CastIron
05-10-07, 06:56 PM
What a faulty argument. So just because Lance beat guys who have been/could be convicted of doping, he must have doped too? That's completely nonsensical.
Faulty, but not without merit.
If a large number of direct competitors are doping to compete and you outperform them, then it certainly makes for a logical inference. The alternative is that he is super human. These guys all have pretty much the same resources at hand.
Faulty, but not without merit.
If a large number of direct competitors are doping to compete and you outperform them, then it certainly makes for a logical inference. The alternative is that he is super human. These guys all have pretty much the same resources at hand.
Namenda
05-10-07, 06:57 PM
Obviously.
Check BF. Check the Flyod Sticky's. Check the whacko sig lines or sub lettering under some avatars. "free floyd" "Riding behind Lance."... Etc, etc, don't see much of those for say Basso or Ullrich...
Do some reading before you come back to me with an automated "I don't think so reply..." Ah, nevermind.
Sounds like you're only seeing what you want to see. I've done plenty of reading here, and I've seen both sides of this issue presented ad nauseum. If you choose to focus only on what rankles your sensibilities, it would appear to be a personal problem.
Check BF. Check the Flyod Sticky's. Check the whacko sig lines or sub lettering under some avatars. "free floyd" "Riding behind Lance."... Etc, etc, don't see much of those for say Basso or Ullrich...
Do some reading before you come back to me with an automated "I don't think so reply..." Ah, nevermind.
Sounds like you're only seeing what you want to see. I've done plenty of reading here, and I've seen both sides of this issue presented ad nauseum. If you choose to focus only on what rankles your sensibilities, it would appear to be a personal problem.
Namenda
05-10-07, 06:59 PM
Furthermore, snipping a quote and presenting it out of context is sleazy. Not to mention childish.
reef58
05-10-07, 07:02 PM
Obviously.
Check BF. Check the Flyod Sticky's. Check the whacko sig lines or sub lettering under some avatars. "free floyd" "Riding behind Lance."... Etc, etc, don't see much of those for say Basso or Ullrich...
Do some reading before you come back to me with an automated "I don't think so reply..." Ah, nevermind.
Again with your ax to grind. Have you actually considered the people that think Floyd is clean may also think Basso is clean, or up until Basso admitted he was not clean? Have you cross referenced posts to see who supports Floyd, but doesn't support Basso? Some people require a higher level of proof before they condemn anyone. If someone disagrees with you they are just being jacka$$ Americans? Who are you, and what compelling evidence do you have? Ohh that's right you are the guy that went on a Trek bashing campaign due to your ignorance of the facts. Remember?
You obviously cannot handle the fact that someone does not agree with you. I think Floyd is guilty as can be. Obviously Basso is guilty due to the fact he admitted to it. Lance is probably guilty, but he has never been caught. I suspect hours and hours and hours of investigation has been directed towards proving Lance is guilty, but yet no one has found the goods. Again I believe he is guilty, but I certainly don't blame someone with the opposite view.
Richard
Check BF. Check the Flyod Sticky's. Check the whacko sig lines or sub lettering under some avatars. "free floyd" "Riding behind Lance."... Etc, etc, don't see much of those for say Basso or Ullrich...
Do some reading before you come back to me with an automated "I don't think so reply..." Ah, nevermind.
Again with your ax to grind. Have you actually considered the people that think Floyd is clean may also think Basso is clean, or up until Basso admitted he was not clean? Have you cross referenced posts to see who supports Floyd, but doesn't support Basso? Some people require a higher level of proof before they condemn anyone. If someone disagrees with you they are just being jacka$$ Americans? Who are you, and what compelling evidence do you have? Ohh that's right you are the guy that went on a Trek bashing campaign due to your ignorance of the facts. Remember?
You obviously cannot handle the fact that someone does not agree with you. I think Floyd is guilty as can be. Obviously Basso is guilty due to the fact he admitted to it. Lance is probably guilty, but he has never been caught. I suspect hours and hours and hours of investigation has been directed towards proving Lance is guilty, but yet no one has found the goods. Again I believe he is guilty, but I certainly don't blame someone with the opposite view.
Richard
Blaireau
05-10-07, 07:04 PM
Sounds like you're only seeing what you want to see. I've done plenty of reading here, and I've seen both sides of this issue presented ad nauseum. If you choose to focus only on what rankles your sensibilities, it would appear to be a personal problem.
Ok you are right; and about the US media that's laughably pro-Landis and pro-Lance, I'll just forget about that little detail....Which just happens to fit into my allegedly warped perceptions... Must be a coincidence !!
Seriously, are you going to deny that the US media is biased in favor of Lance and Floyd ?!?
Ok you are right; and about the US media that's laughably pro-Landis and pro-Lance, I'll just forget about that little detail....Which just happens to fit into my allegedly warped perceptions... Must be a coincidence !!
Seriously, are you going to deny that the US media is biased in favor of Lance and Floyd ?!?
derath
05-10-07, 07:06 PM
The only thing I will throw out in Lance's defense is this.
Given that he is a cancer survivor, is it possible to consider he may have steered clear of doping? I mean if I dodged a cancer bullet I wouldn't do anything that put my health in any more jeopardy.
Just a thought.
-D
Given that he is a cancer survivor, is it possible to consider he may have steered clear of doping? I mean if I dodged a cancer bullet I wouldn't do anything that put my health in any more jeopardy.
Just a thought.
-D
patentcad
05-10-07, 07:07 PM
Can we please keep the racket down over here?
It's hard to sleep with all these axes grinding.
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/fspubs/99232823/cover.jpg
It's hard to sleep with all these axes grinding.
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/fspubs/99232823/cover.jpg
reef58
05-10-07, 07:12 PM
Ok you are right; and about the US media that's laughably pro-Landis and pro-Lance, I'll just forget about that little detail....Which just happens to fit into my allegedly warped perceptions... Must be a coincidence !!
Seriously, are you going to deny that the US media is biased in favor of Lance and Floyd ?!?
What US Media? Please direct me to the pro US media. I usually don't hear crap about bike racing. Please show me or direct me to the pro Landis US media. Please give me an example.
I agree Lance is more of an icon here. He is treated more like a movie star than a bike racer.
You also said a non doping rider cannot compete against doping riders. I agree with this is 99.99% of cases. But please direct me to one credible study that came to this conclusion. Again this comes from someone who thinks they all dope, but your opinions are not fact, and neither are mine.
Richard
Seriously, are you going to deny that the US media is biased in favor of Lance and Floyd ?!?
What US Media? Please direct me to the pro US media. I usually don't hear crap about bike racing. Please show me or direct me to the pro Landis US media. Please give me an example.
I agree Lance is more of an icon here. He is treated more like a movie star than a bike racer.
You also said a non doping rider cannot compete against doping riders. I agree with this is 99.99% of cases. But please direct me to one credible study that came to this conclusion. Again this comes from someone who thinks they all dope, but your opinions are not fact, and neither are mine.
Richard
reef58
05-10-07, 07:13 PM
Can we please keep the racket down over here?
It's hard to sleep with all these axes grinding.
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/fspubs/99232823/cover.jpg
Okay point taken:)
Richard
It's hard to sleep with all these axes grinding.
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/fspubs/99232823/cover.jpg
Okay point taken:)
Richard
Blaireau
05-10-07, 07:15 PM
What US Media? Please direct me to the pro US media. I usually don't hear crap about bike racing. Please show me or direct me to the pro Landis US media. Please give me an example.
I agree Lance is more of an icon here. He is treated more like a movie star than a bike racer.
You also said a non doping rider cannot compete against doping riders. I agree with this is 99.99% of cases. But please direct me to one credible study that came to this conclusion. Again this comes from someone who thinks they all dope, but your opinions are not fact, and neither are mine.
Richard
lol!
I agree Lance is more of an icon here. He is treated more like a movie star than a bike racer.
You also said a non doping rider cannot compete against doping riders. I agree with this is 99.99% of cases. But please direct me to one credible study that came to this conclusion. Again this comes from someone who thinks they all dope, but your opinions are not fact, and neither are mine.
Richard
lol!
patentcad
05-10-07, 07:16 PM
.
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/fspubs/99232823/cover.jpg
Another thread asks for new career suggestions for Tyler. He should consider the profession depicted above.
Works for Lemond.
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/fspubs/99232823/cover.jpg
Another thread asks for new career suggestions for Tyler. He should consider the profession depicted above.
Works for Lemond.
Namenda
05-10-07, 07:17 PM
Ok you are right; and about the US media that's laughably pro-Landis and pro-Lance, I'll just forget about that little detail....Which just happens to fit into my allegedly warped perceptions... Must be a coincidence !!
Seriously, are you going to deny that the US media is biased in favor of Lance and Floyd ?!?
Well, now you're on a completely different track. You were discussing views on BF's...now you want to compare a chat board to the US media as a whole. Okay.
I don't know what papers you read, what TV news you watch, or what other outlets you pursue for your current events. My local media ignore cycling, for the most part. But they made a big deal about Landis failing the testoterone test. All of his posturing after the fact has been strictly page 35, small-print stuff. So, no..I don't see any pro-Landis rallying in my corner of the world.
The US media considers Lance Armstrong one of its darlings, and with good reason. His accomplishments speak for themselves, and the fact that none of the doping allegations against him hold water has not been lost on the American public. So I'll give you that.
The Operation Puerto scandal was big news all over the world, at least for a week or so. After the furor died down, the US media put the whole thing to bed. The UCI and ProTour are European interests, not American. Nobody in the US sports media went out of their way to slam Basso, Ullrich, Mancebo, Botero, or anyone else. Its old news here...unless you are a fan of pro cycling. And their are precious few of those, if the Cyclism Sunday ratings are any measure.
Seriously, are you going to deny that the US media is biased in favor of Lance and Floyd ?!?
Well, now you're on a completely different track. You were discussing views on BF's...now you want to compare a chat board to the US media as a whole. Okay.
I don't know what papers you read, what TV news you watch, or what other outlets you pursue for your current events. My local media ignore cycling, for the most part. But they made a big deal about Landis failing the testoterone test. All of his posturing after the fact has been strictly page 35, small-print stuff. So, no..I don't see any pro-Landis rallying in my corner of the world.
The US media considers Lance Armstrong one of its darlings, and with good reason. His accomplishments speak for themselves, and the fact that none of the doping allegations against him hold water has not been lost on the American public. So I'll give you that.
The Operation Puerto scandal was big news all over the world, at least for a week or so. After the furor died down, the US media put the whole thing to bed. The UCI and ProTour are European interests, not American. Nobody in the US sports media went out of their way to slam Basso, Ullrich, Mancebo, Botero, or anyone else. Its old news here...unless you are a fan of pro cycling. And their are precious few of those, if the Cyclism Sunday ratings are any measure.
Blaireau
05-10-07, 07:17 PM
Can we please keep the racket down over here?
It's hard to sleep with all these axes grinding.
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/fspubs/99232823/cover.jpg
Real impressive argument!!
But you should go back to sleep patencad, that way your dream of a clean Lance can last a little longer...
It's hard to sleep with all these axes grinding.
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/fspubs/99232823/cover.jpg
Real impressive argument!!
But you should go back to sleep patencad, that way your dream of a clean Lance can last a little longer...
Namenda
05-10-07, 07:20 PM
Real impressive argument!!
But you should go back to sleep patencad, that way your dream of a clean Lance can last a little longer...
Say...did your new 1500 come in Disco team colors?
But you should go back to sleep patencad, that way your dream of a clean Lance can last a little longer...
Say...did your new 1500 come in Disco team colors?
reef58
05-10-07, 07:20 PM
lol!
With the LOL argument then it must be a piece of cake for you to supply the information supporting your argument. I look forward to it.
Richard
With the LOL argument then it must be a piece of cake for you to supply the information supporting your argument. I look forward to it.
Richard
Blaireau
05-10-07, 07:22 PM
Say...did your new 1500 come in Disco team colors?
What's the connection Doctor?
What's the connection Doctor?
patentcad
05-10-07, 07:22 PM
Real impressive argument!!
But you should go back to sleep patencad, that way your dream of a clean Lance can last a little longer...
I'm not arguing with anyone. Are you?
Lance could have taken EPO, LSD, steroids, speed and smoked crack and his bicycle racing accomplishments would remain the ****.
But you should go back to sleep patencad, that way your dream of a clean Lance can last a little longer...
I'm not arguing with anyone. Are you?
Lance could have taken EPO, LSD, steroids, speed and smoked crack and his bicycle racing accomplishments would remain the ****.
Blaireau
05-10-07, 07:22 PM
With the LOL argument then it must be a piece of cake for you to supply the information supporting your argument. I look forward to it.
Richard
Are you kidding?
Richard
Are you kidding?
reef58
05-10-07, 07:23 PM
Real impressive argument!!
But you should go back to sleep patencad, that way your dream of a clean Lance can last a little longer...
Yea not nearly as compelling as your LOL retort. I didn't see that one coming.
BTW I don't disagree with your opinion about doping only your opinion that us stupid Americans fail to see the truth due to patriotism.
Richard
But you should go back to sleep patencad, that way your dream of a clean Lance can last a little longer...
Yea not nearly as compelling as your LOL retort. I didn't see that one coming.
BTW I don't disagree with your opinion about doping only your opinion that us stupid Americans fail to see the truth due to patriotism.
Richard
Blaireau
05-10-07, 07:24 PM
I'm not arguing with anyone. Are you?
Lance could have taken EPO, LSD, steroids, speed and smoked crack and his bicycle racing accomplishments would remain the ****.
That's a weird set of values you got. Certainly the anti-doping agencies would disagree with you. Then again, you probably don't hold them in high regard...
Lance could have taken EPO, LSD, steroids, speed and smoked crack and his bicycle racing accomplishments would remain the ****.
That's a weird set of values you got. Certainly the anti-doping agencies would disagree with you. Then again, you probably don't hold them in high regard...
recursive
05-10-07, 07:24 PM
it was just the giro of 69
He had his first real 6 speed.
Got it from the Molteni van.
Rode it 'til his guads bled.
It was the giro of 69.
He had his first real 6 speed.
Got it from the Molteni van.
Rode it 'til his guads bled.
It was the giro of 69.
DrPete
05-10-07, 07:26 PM
Real impressive argument!!
As is yours. You seem 100% convinced that Lance was juiced and have taken to ridicule everyone who disagrees with you.
All you're missing is evidence.
As is yours. You seem 100% convinced that Lance was juiced and have taken to ridicule everyone who disagrees with you.
All you're missing is evidence.