Eastern Canada - $110 dollar ticket - through a stop sign

I rode my bike through a stop sign in downtown Toronto today and a cop gave me a $110 ticket. While paying the ticket isn't my biggest concern, having the charge applied to my drivers license, even worse, the insurance company getting wind of it. It would by my third traffic offense in 3 years and my rates will go up.

Can anyone confirm wether this ticket will indeed affect my drivers license? I'm hoping it won't as I ws on a bike, but the charge will be registered under the Highway Traffic Act.

thanks

Where was the stop sign? Are cops starting a new campaign, like the one they always start immediately after bike week?

I am good about slowing for a stop sign, but no, I rarely actually stop.

I was at Queen / Spadina where another cop told me they were on a new campaign to ticket cyclist...

I've been reading, just don't give the cop your license for ID (it's not required). This way, you will not get demerit points...I'm still wondering if it will show up on a drivers abstract. Hopefully no?

I was at Queen / Spadina where another cop told me they were on a new campaign to ticket cyclist...

I've been reading, just don't give the cop your license for ID (it's not required). This way, you will not get demerit points...I'm still wondering if it will show up on a drivers abstract. Hopefully no?


http://www.toronto.ca/cycling/pdf/hta.pdf

I've been stopped twice in the last 4 weeks, both times by the same bike cop around Annette/Dundas, for hopping onto the sidewalk and going through a crosswalk, and going through a red light the second time...

...Got a warning both times and was told that if I got a ticket, it would be on my driving record...hard to see how they could do this if you don't give them your driving licence

Agreed. Note to self, never ride with your drivers license. That was the first thing the cop ( patrol car ), asked for.

Fyi,

http://www.bicyclesource.com/body/safety/laws/ontario-laws.shtml

You got lucky, even when I mentioned my brother was a cop, he smiled, and wrote the ticket. Hey, I'll try anything to get out of a ticket :) At the end of the day..it's not the cost of the ticket, but the points and having a charge my abstract that concerns me...bloody insurance companies will nail you too the wall.

I'm wondering what stopped him from just looking me up in the system and writing down the drivers license?

Agreed. Note to self, never ride with your drivers license. That was the first thing the cop ( patrol car ), asked for.


I was about to say that. Since riding a bike doesn't require a driver's licence, don't bring it along or don't give it to him he asks for it.

He will require some valid ID though so you can simply hand him your OHIP card for ID purposes. If he does lookup some info in his computer and finds out you do indeed have a driver's licence, he can't apply the charge to the driver's licence. If he does, you have something to go to court with.

You see: If you handed over the driver's licence yourself, it'll be hard for you to defend yourself in court. If you don't and he does apply the charge to your licence, you have a valid case against the cop.

Know your rights and use them wisely.

PS: Here's a trick for you; keep a stamped and adressed envelope handy (use your mom, dad, brother/sister's address or something). If you get pulled over, shove your driver's licence into the envelope and seal it. The cop is not allowed to open the envelope. Only a postal inspector is allowed to open it. And they won't bother calling out a postal inspector for a mere traffic stop.

Hey, at least the cop didn't beat you about the head.

Is there nothing more pressing for them to be doing in this city? Ticketing cyclists? What a joke.

This may be seem radical, but why not just obey the rules of the road?

I think the fine is justified...you break the law you pay the price. But losing the driver's license points is unfair. You're being treated more harshly that someone would be who did the same offence but didn't have a driver's license. This has come up before and I don't know if anyone has successfully fought it.

Actually, that link that jm01 posted, http://www.toronto.ca/cycling/pdf/hta.pdf says that "demerit points do not apply to cyclists". (sec 56, bottom of page 2).

good catch...I'll remind that cop (i see him every day) should he stop me again

Actually, he's a nice guy...had a longer talk with him last Friday about the bikes cops now use (they went from Trek to Aquila, then to Devinci, now they're using bikes from Urbane Cyclist)

...he liked the Davinci best...apparently a shorter wheel base and tighter head angle for better handing in traffic

This may be seem radical, but why not just obey the rules of the road?



WHAT
:eek:

The HORROR :D

http://www.toronto.ca/cycling/cyclometer/2004_nov.htm#5

See section #5

He didn't wrtie bicycle in the appropriate box. My drivers license was requested. I'm cool with the fine, just not the demerit points. Looks like I'll have to see the JP.

http://www.respect.to/legal/hta2.html

Yeah, I agree. Why did you go thru a stop sign? Okay, I don't live in your city, but let's face it, if us cyclists don't go with the rules, then the drivers hate us even more. I can't stand all these racers who think they're above the law and go thru red lights, etc. just to save their muscles. Good grief. Good thing they wear those helmets - they'll need them at some point. However, I think the cost of that ticket is ridiculous!! I'm carfree. If I could afford $110, I'd buy gas and put it in a mechanical device!

I drive the same way in a car or a bicycle. I never come to a full stop for a stop sign unless there's a cop watching or another vehicle has right of way.

Let's ALL go through stop signs and hit each other, and then we'll see who's right!

Come on, man.

slow road, no cars around, street is dead...

why stop at a red light?

stop because it's red. stop because some impressionable kid might take you as an example. stop because some anti-cycling wacko might be watching out the window of his house so you don't give him more ammo. stop because you have to.

If I see kids around, I'll always slow down. I'll even smile and say Hi. That's the best example you can give impressionable and non-impressionable kids.

As for anti-cycling wackos, I couldn't care less about them. Let them be miserable.

Again as for the red signs/lights, I'll have to repeat that it's against common sense to stop at a red light when there is nothing around, no cars, the street is dead. It's foolish, even though "against" the law. Even an impressionable kid will agree with me.


Oh....... Dura lex, sed lex.

Must the citizen ever for a moment, or in the least degree, resign his conscience to the legislator? Why has every man a conscience then?

Mito, my dear citizen.

If consciences are reliable, why do we need cops?

I get impressionable people agreeing with me all the time, no contest there...

We need cops to protect us from murderers, thieves and scoundrels. A cop shouldn't waste his time with a cyclist ignoring a red light/sign on a dead road.

I think you will all agree with me here.

nope.

most will

poll time :)

Ok, mito. Let's make sure we get everyone in Bike Forums in on this poll. How about it? The safety forum will love this.

Why not, actually, expand it to the whole internet? No, we won't get an accurate representation if it's that small...

We need everyone in the GTA, maybe in Ontario to answer:

Shouldn't people on bicycles be allowed to run stop signs and red lights at their own discretion, and isn't it a waste of time making sure they don't?

Seems to me, laws grow out of big polls like this... hmmn.

Let's quit this game of who gets the last word and agree to disagree.

ok, I disagree with you and respect your opinion.

(last word is mine......) :)

Today, stopped at the light (in car), at Dovercourt/Dundas, two bike cops ( 14 div?), blew the red light while another cyclist stopped.

Toronto cops are the worst. The police here jam the public with tickets. They obviously have high quotas. Big Dave has already told us the city is broke.

Today, stopped at the light (in car), at Dovercourt/Dundas, two bike cops ( 14 div?), blew the red light while another cyclist stopped.



they were certainly on duty going after a criminal... they couldn't stop! :)

Today, stopped at the light (in car), at Dovercourt/Dundas, two bike cops ( 14 div?), blew the red light while another cyclist stopped.

Toronto cops are the worst. The police here jam the public with tickets. They obviously have high quotas. Big Dave has already told us the city is broke.

I love watching the bike cops. It's the cheapest entertainment in this city - aside from laughing at Big Dave and his team of trained seals, that is.

It's the cheapest entertainment in this city -

please elaborate.

why are they so funny?

Let's ALL go through stop signs and hit each other, and then we'll see who's right!

Come on, man.


Mike,

The fine itself is not a problem, only if it may affect my drivers license/abstract and those who don't have have a drivers license, don't suffer the same penalty.

What happens when a cyclist gets pulled over for drinking and riding...could happen. His bike is considered a vehicle under the HTA, should the cyclist produce a drivers license he may lose it. Someone with no license doesn't suffer insurance increases and all the other crap that comes along with it.

Should I of produced my license, and paid the fine without any research it would of shown on the abstract. I got lucky. It was an excerise to learn the laws surrounding this fine, the officer is aware of the laws, yet asked for my drivers license.

Anyway, off the courthouse.

Mike,

The fine itself is not a problem, only if it may affect my drivers license/abstract and those who don't have have a drivers license, don't suffer the same penalty.

What happens when a cyclist gets pulled over for drinking and riding...could happen. His bike is considered a vehicle under the HTA, should the cyclist produce a drivers license he may lose it. Someone with no license doesn't suffer insurance increases and all the other crap that comes along with it.

Should I of produced my license, and paid the fine without any research it would of shown on the abstract. I got lucky. It was an excerise to learn the laws surrounding this fine, the officer is aware of the laws, yet asked for my drivers license.

Anyway, off the courthouse.

Same thing when drinking & boating...in Ontario you lose your driver's licence if convicted

but not just drinking...as a diabetic, I can be charged with impaired if driving with blood sugar low enough to cause an accident

please elaborate.

why are they so funny?


Oh, just because Toronto is expensive, so I have to get my laughs on the cheap. I find it funny that every time I've seen a police officer on a bike, he (I've only seen male cops on bikes) does something that would result in a warning or a ticket if I were to do it on my bike.

I think it's great that there are cops on bikes, though.

I'd like to see more female bike cops..in spandex. :)

I have seen a few female cops on bikes, and lots of meter readers...we have Irene who tickets on our street

Had fun on my lunch ride today though...a film crew had pilons blocking off the right lane and a cop was standing on the left side of the pilons watching the movie set...I had to go around him on the right side, on the inside of 2 pilons...he yelled that I should stay on the outside of these pilons...

...so I stopped and told him to get behind the pilons and make some room for the cyclists to do this...he was forcing us to jump a set of streetcar tracks, and after sliding out a few times, I hesitate to do this.

He got quite upset by me doing this, but there wasn't much he could do (he was on paid duty, off duty and working for the film crew)...wished him a nice day, and rode off:D

I live near annette and dundas, thanks for the info, will make sure to look out for the cops...

There has been a few rants and raves on toronto's craigslist last year about cyclist getting tickets for this and that....

Sorry to hear you got nailed... I would have pissed as well.

My coworkers once got a ticket for riding a bike at night without lights!... now I thought that was rather incredulous, but my coworker is not the type to embellish...

All of your stories remind me of a story I read in the National Post a couple of years back:

The Canadian city escapes me but this casual rider was dinged by the police for not having a....bell! He could pay a fine or take a remedial safety class to wipe out the infraction. He chose the latter. He described the event as being similar to a AA meeting where participants introduce themselves and recite their infraction. When the rest of the group, mostly couriers who were there for far more egregious infractions heard him, there was a collective: 'you're f*$%ing kidding' :eek:

STOP because another rider may be running another stop sign into the same intersection

Anyway folks, I went to the Edward St. Court house thinking I'd plead guilty with an explaination and have the fine reduced.

The line up was so freaking long..it would of taken 4+ hours to see the procecutor. I opted just to pay the ticket as the guy at the info desk advised I wouldn't receive a loss in demerit points on my drivers license.

That was beer money. Good thing I keep a little extra for hard times. :)

I think the best solution to Mike and Mito's controversy is if we all just ride Penny Farthings. Let those little vehicle bastards try to make us stop! lol

So he didn't check "bicycle"? Good, there is a chance you can get the whole thing, fine and all, thrown out. Get an barrister expert in Canadian Bicycle law. If there is a Canadian equivalent to the US League of American Bicyclists they should be able to direct you to one. We have such lawyers in California and most will give some free advise.

STOP because another rider may be running another stop sign into the same intersection

actually, turn back, the other rider might chase you.

I know this thread is ancient but I just renewed the sticker for my license plate today and decided to pull an abstract only to find 3 demerit points added to my drivers license.

I didn't have a license at the time of the offence therefore none was written on the ticket ( B written in license # field.) . Also, the court office on Edward street advised me I wouldn't loose demerit points.

Anyway, I just spoke to someone at the court office. The gentlemen I spoke to did see that it was a bicycle offence and would send a letter to have it removed from the abstract. So note others, check your abstract !

Effin clown commuters- far too cool to stop for Red Lights. They'll have all the time in the world to rest when the get hit by some dickweed SUV. At least make a cheesy effort to slow down. Yesterday I saw a CC (clown commuter) buzz through a red light on Queens Quay and Bay near the Green P lot and and almost got broadsided. I made eye contact with the driver and just shook my head. For once I had an milligram of sympathy an SUV driver.

Most people don't know that if you carry a U.C.I. license and get nailed with a ticket, you face a possible suspension of your racing license. The OCA is becoming more organised in its efforts to curtail poor road riding habits.

Personally, I don't care anymore what peeps do on their crappy 80 dollar commuter bikes. My 7500.00 Pinarello will happily wait at Reds to preserve its lifespan.

As my friend says : " It's a fine line between clever and stupid..."

Just sayin' ya know.

ohhhh..Pinarello.

when did 80 commuters com into the conversation anyway...

note to self, don't carry my drivers or UCI license while riding.

note to self, don't carry my drivers or UCI license while riding.

Carry it if you want, just don't produce it. The HTA says that providing your name and address is sufficient; don't say no to the cop but advise that you are only required to provide your true name and address, which you are doing.

cop told me they were on a new campaign to ticket cyclist...


ONLY in Canada, for teh WIN!!!

I slow down at stop signs to the point where I just come to a momentary stop, but still keep balanced up in the air, and then if it's clear, I take off. I'm also a car driver, and I HATE when cyclists, blow stop signs and do dangerous things. We already have enough drivers hatin' on us, why make it worse. And as a person who also drives, there have been a few times, I almost hit a cyclist, when he blew a sign and whipped out from a blind spot due to hedges and I almost killed him. Sad thing is, as a driver, it probably would have been my fault.

I definately vote for, be courteous and act responsible on the road, and yeah maybe everyone driving won't love you, but you might win over another driver or 2, and thats at least an improvement. In Hamilton it's pretty bad. It's not exactly a cycling town, and it's a bit dog eat dog with the drivers, and it wouldn't hurt us to display that we are capable of behaving reasonably out there.