General Cycling Discussion - Impotence warning hits Bike Week

Male cyclists are twice as likely to suffer from impotence as those who stay away from bikes, according to a new study.

hxxp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2991088.stm

They found that more than 60% of men and women reported genital discomfort.

Their 'Bicycle Saddle Report 2003' suggests that male cyclists are twice as likely to suffer from virility problems.

For women riders, genital swelling was much more common than previously realised.

My Terry saddle has a big hole all the way through it where my impotence would be. It also lets air circulate and keeps my importants cool.

The report references narrow saddles. Perhaps is fair to say that saddles that do not cause numbness would be exempt from this theory?? I don't know, the article is not very specific i.e.; if you don't become numb this doesn't apply!
I can only say that my Brooks B17 does not cause numbness and I can cycle for many hours in comfort.

Some one had a post "A culture of fear" I believe this is more of that. If the nasty multiwheeled monsters don't get you your saddle will.

Joe

well the short little blurb article doesn't give much details... just the the blurb: "Male cyclists are twice as likely to suffer from impotence as those who stay away from bikes, according to a new study." ... without any reference to the details of the study.

and then " They found that more than 60% of men and women reported genital discomfort. "

of course proper bit fit is important and if you have numbness you should get it checked --- i used to have have numbess but changes by bike set-up and also now sit further back on my saddle so i now sit on the "sit-bones" and not on my privates...

but as i ride a lot a miles - about 10,000km/ yr mostly off-road with about 70,000 meters vetical (i'm on track to beat that by a lot this year!) - i talked to 2 urologists a little over a year ago and they have said that in their opnions the ADVANTAGES of cycling for the circulatory system greatly outweigh any of the currently documented researched problems from cycling -- i.e. sitting on the couch and not riding is more likely to be detrimental to your sexual performance b/c your cardiovascular system deteriates -- and that from their expert knowlege of all the research that as long as you experience no numbness you should have nothing to worry about ----- well, except some evidence/studies suggest that trauma from crashes where you hit your privates on the top-tube can also infertility (i.e. getting racked) so that is one other thing to consider... but that can also happen in soccer or hockey or other sports (although for hockey you wear a cup, but whatever)

the article does recommend: "They recommend that cyclists sit upright whenever possible and stand on the pedals every 10 minutes. " but it doesn't state the most important: that you should make sure your bike is fit properly AND if you experience numbness then change something, see or doctor, OR reduce your cycling...

but as the article is written it seems that it might discourage many cyclists for absolutely no reason...

but then can we expect a super-quick blurb from the media (sensationalism sells, details are borin) to really report the whole story?

Exactly .... the benefits of losing weight, getting the proper
exercise on a regular basis and fresh air outweighs the dangers...

I hope this is all bulls**t (excuse the language). But just in case I think I'll start standing every ten minutes.

Originally posted by Portent
I hope this is all bulls**t (excuse the language). But just in case I think I'll start standing every ten minutes.

It's a good idea to change riding positions regularly anyways. Moving your hands around on the bar prevents numbness. Occasionally standing and stretching prevents numbness in the appropriate spots. Doing neck stretches prevent neckpains.

I dislike that the article recommends a fully upright position as that could lead to back pains. I suspect that the article did not take into account proper bike fit. I also suspect that many subjects in the study were those who just recently got (back) on a bike without having grown accustomed to riding or maintaining proper bike fit.

I even more dislike that articles such as those could convince people to just give up on the idea of cycling and sit around their couch. Sitting around doing nothing can just as easily cause you physical harm.... even in the short term. Remember those people who died immediately after stepping off an airplane because of blood clots from sitting too long in one position? The same symptoms have occurred in people sitting in front of computers and TVs without moving.

Sooooo... if I don't want kids, and I marry a hard-core cyclist, and we have unprotected sex, I won't have to worry about getting pregnant?

I'm gonna sue these people if there's a bundle of joy being squeezed out of me 9 months from now. Back up, people, I'm going in to test the theory!!!

:lol:

Koff

This explains the guy I saw riding the other day. He was wearing black dress pants, white dress shirt and black vest with a yellow Giro helmet and Oakley XX's with burnt orange iridescent lenses.

He must subscribe to the theory that if your going to be impotent you have to look impotent. ;)

Originally posted by Koffee Brown
Sooooo... if I don't want kids, and I marry a hard-core cyclist, and we have unprotected sex, I won't have to worry about getting pregnant?

I'm gonna sue these people if there's a bundle of joy being squeezed out of me 9 months from now. Back up, people, I'm going in to test the theory!!!

:lol:

Koff

Hahaha...now that would be a funny case to watch :)

AAaaaah...typical media interpretation of clinical medicine.

First of all I'd like to see the data itself. They studied one thousand bicyclist....were they experienced bicyclists or novices who were handed a bike and told to ride for x number of weeks?

If these were not seasoned bicyclists did they control for other variables that affect impotence such as smokeing and diabeties?
These group of people already have some underlying problems and the pressure on the pudendal nerve in an bicyclist not accustomed to biking may push him over into having impotence.

How did they define virility problems?...erectile dysfunction? low sperm count ?or just genital discomfort. If these were not seasoned cyclists, all of us have problems with discomfort when getting back in the saddle after a hiatus.

Please guys , continue to use birth control. By the way, no mention of sperm counts were made so Koffee, keep using protection.

P.S. The moment I got off birth control, I got knocked up with Samantha. My husband would be laughing at this right now but he's out biking. HaH!!!!


Another example of how much bad research makes it to print and the media has no idea how to critically analyze the data.

My cool Oakley sunglasses make me look impotent. :D

By the way, twice as likely just means that if 1 out of 1000 men have problems with impotence and 2 out of 1000 men who ride a bike have problems with impotence, then these men are twice as likely to have impotence problems. Interesting the article did not provide numbers since the absolute numbers are probably unimpressive.

I cannot believe they put this rubbish out at the start of British Bike Week! What is it with these Belgians?

Who are these cyclists? Are they pro racers? Ordinary Joe Blow? If the latter how many of the ones that wear padded cycling shorts suffer?

All the evidence I hear is that cyclists tend to be MORE sexually active than most people, probably due to the health benefits.

This bull**** raises more questions than it answers. Lets not lose any sleep over it because I am sure as hell not losing sperm cells cycling...

Yeah. I used to wear my old Army glasses. Talk about 100% effective birth control...

Originally posted by kevmetric
Male cyclists are twice as likely to suffer from impotence as those who stay away from bikes, according to a new study.

hxxp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2991088.stm

They found that more than 60% of men and women reported genital discomfort.

Their 'Bicycle Saddle Report 2003' suggests that male cyclists are twice as likely to suffer from virility problems.

For women riders, genital swelling was much more common than previously realised.

Raise the handlebar !!!!!!!!!
Bicycling is not at fault. Poor posture is the problem.

RAISE THE HANDLEBAR !!!!

Please guys , continue to use birth control. By the way, no mention of sperm counts were made so Koffee, keep using protection.

P.S. The moment I got off birth control, I got knocked up with Samantha. My husband would be laughing at this right now but he's out biking. HaH!!!!

:eek:

Damn... :(

The article doesn't mistake impotence ("virility problems") with
infertility.

In fact, being impotent may or may not affect fertility ...the article
talks about genital discomfort, and lack of ability to carry out
the sexual function.

It doesn't refer at all to sperm counts, fertility or lack thereof.

Originally posted by kevmetric
The article doesn't mistake impotence ("virility problems") with
infertility.

In fact, being impotent may or may not affect fertility ...the article
talks about genital discomfort, and lack of ability to carry out
the sexual function.

It doesn't refer at all to sperm counts, fertility or lack thereof.


Oh man. You mean I can't use that as a pick-up line anymore? "Don't worry baby, I sit on a bike seat for 15 hours a week...."

Dang it again!

So it's not about fertility, it's about FUNCTION?

So I guess I want to back my thang up against a non-cyclist then, huh?

;)

I can see the new pick up line for bicyclists- I am worried about impotence because I bike a lot. Could you help me with a cure?

Originally posted by Koffee Brown


So I guess I want to back my thang up against a non-cyclist then, huh?

;)


There's only one way to find out!! Test 'em both. Again and again...

Originally posted by Koffee Brown
Sooooo... if I don't want kids, and I marry a hard-core cyclist, and we have unprotected sex, I won't have to worry about getting pregnant?

I'm gonna sue these people if there's a bundle of joy being squeezed out of me 9 months from now. Back up, people, I'm going in to test the theory!!!

:lol:

Koff


Sorry to burst your bubble Koff but our little Samantha is living proof this theory is wrong.

:D

I wonder if any saddle company paid for the report. If so, using this report violates the first rule of statistical analysis, never ask the barber whether you need a haircut.

I find it comical that you guys are getting so defensive about this issue. I do believe that cyclists have a greater risk of impotence than non-cyclists. But believing that doesn't deter me from riding. It's kinda like seeing smokers get riled up about research that says smoking is bad.

I just accept that increased risk as a fact of life. It's not gonna keep me off the bike. If I wanted to avoid the risk of getting in car accidents, then I'd never ride in a car again.

Also, please remember the distinction between impotence and infertility.

There is a bit more to this research message here... as full-on cyclists and members (or lurkers) of BF, everyone probably has a pretty good handle on bike fit and identifying solutions to the problems we experience. And if we don't we can ask.

But much of this research -- reputable or otherwise -- concerns the "average" person out there without a clue on anything related to comfort, good cycling technique and how to fix problems. They may have just taken delivery of a bike after not riding for decades. And as has been told so many times here, quite a lot of LBSs aren't very helpful when it comes to fit.

This "average" person outnumbers us "experts" hugely, and any research that draws its sample from a general population is going to highlight these medical results arising from poor cycling technique. I bet there are thousands of people who, on reading the research findings, would say: "Yeah, I get pain there, so I must be at risk", and ditch their bikes in the garage. No amount of trying to discredit the research (irrespective of how well it may or may not be clinically or scientifically based) is going to achieve the end (umm, read that as you will in the context of the subject).

And the end? Presenting this research to the bicycling advocacy and cycling promotion organisations, and ourselves, and saying: "What are we going to do practically to reduce this incidence?" Not, you note, "What are we going to do to discredit the research outcomes with spurious anecdotal arguments?"

Of course, it means getting education going in the public mind on good riding technique, which is far harder than dismissing research findings out of hand.

Just some thoughts FWIW

R

>>>>>the article does recommend: "They recommend that cyclists sit upright whenever possible and stand on the pedals every 10 minutes. "<<<<<

It's obvious the article did not study the recumbent rider. Why is it the bent rider is left out of these studies?

Originally posted by Koffee Brown
Sooooo... if I don't want kids, and I marry a hard-core cyclist, and we have unprotected sex, I won't have to worry about getting pregnant?

I'm gonna sue these people if there's a bundle of joy being squeezed out of me 9 months from now. Back up, people, I'm going in to test the theory!!!

There's something about this post that just grabbed my undivided attention, but I honestly can't think of what it might be... :lol:

I tend to think the issue here has more to do with riding position than anything else. As others have said, It's important to get out of the saddle every so often to allow blood flow, just like changing any other aspect of your riding position. The other thing I have is a relatively up-right position, which basically means the areas perched on the bike seat are the same ones I'm sitting on now as I type this (and as I have been at work all day today).

I wonder if they'll put out a study that says males who work as accountants are twice as likely to suffer impotence as other males. A more accurate version might be "males who work as accountants are twice as likely not to be effected by impotence, whether they suffer from it or not!"

There is a difference between complete impotence and a degree of dysfunction.

I would be very suprised if I heard that cycling DOESNT have a possible negative effect on the sex drive.

uh sex drive and erectile function are not the same thing..... related, but not the same.

for purposes of clarity - a man can be very "aroused" mentally... but ...er... physically incable of demonstrating that he is.

I'm sorry but my sex drive goes up as I ride more. As I stated before( and Rowan provided a nice reiteration,) the study was a shoddy piece of medical research that did a pissy job of defining the population characteristics and defining the control variables. If they compared 1000 experienced bicylists or persons taught to fit bikes properly with 1000 sedentary, smoking and obese folks, the conclusions would have been different. (By the way 80 percent of all viagra users are smokers, the rest, comprise of diabetics and other medical conditions.) Bikeing is not what is making Viagra fly off the prescription shelves.

I'm sorry but my sex drive goes up as I ride more.

Soooooooo.... now we all know the reason why your husband takes you on so many rides!

;)

Can't remember where I read it exactly, but it was a rebuttal to another one of these dubious cycling-causes-impotence studies:

"In China, 90% of the male population rides a bike everyday, and they don't seem to be having any problem keeping up the population."

lol

BULL**IT

(as to the study)

Ride Anyway
PAT

Originally posted by pat5319
BULL**IT

(as to the study)

Ride Anyway
PAT

Hey, stop firing blanks!:)

Dr. Ridwan Shabsigh is a specialist in the area of erectile dysfunction. This is an excerpt from a review preparted by him:

A literature review prepared by
Ridwan Shabsigh, M.D.


...the term "erectile dysfunction" to more precisely describe the inability of the male to obtain an/or maintain an erection satisfactory for sexual intercourse.

Erectile dysfunction has been found to be associated with age. The majority of patients with erectile dysfunction are over 65 years of age. At age 40 years approximately 5% of men have erectile dysfunction. At age 65 years or older, 15-25% of men have erectile dysfunction. At age 76 and older, 50% of men reported erectile dysfunction. Of 1180 males in a medical clinic at a VA ambulatory clinic, 401 patients had erectile dysfunction (mean age 61 years).

Erectile dysfunction may be related to subjective poor health. ...while controlling for age, overall sexual dysfunction was found to be significantly related to subjective poor health, diabetes mellitus and incontinence. This study suggested that while the incidence of erectile dysfunction increases with age, it is frequently related to coexisting diseases rather than age alone. A population-based study indicated that the prevalence of erectile dysfunction was significantly associated with a history of heart attack, urinary incontinence, problems with mobility and the use of sedatives. Approximately 50% of diabetic males have erectile dysfunction.

I gather from this article that the greatest causes of erectile dysfunction (inability to achieve complete erection) are diseases which cycling can actually help prevent. Therefore, I suggest that cycling prevents erectile dysfunction more than it causes it.

I would be interested to know how many men over 65 who ride a bike have erectile dysfunction, compared to men over 65 that are sedentary.

Cycling - impotence hysteria is nothing new. Every few years, some urologist makes the earthshaking claim that some cyclists develop various problems in the urogenital system. It is also true that some cyclists develop carpal tunnel syndrome or lower back problems or neck strain or plantar warts or whatever.

Personal experience tells me that the rider's position and the geometry and fit of the saddle are the most likely trouble-makers. For reasons Sheldon cites on his website, padded saddles are likely culprits. Of my five saddles, the Brooks Pro, the Brooks Competition, the slotted GT, and the SERFAS Arc have never caused me any problems whatsoever. I am buying another Brooks to replace my narrow padded Marin saddle, which does occasionally cause me a bit of prostate discomfort.

Several years ago, Bicycling Magazine mentioned a cyclist who trains with the seat taken off. He spends several hours a day up on the pegs, as a training method. He has the answer to the problem! :eek:

Originally posted by trmcgeehan
Several years ago, Bicycling Magazine mentioned a cyclist who trains with the seat taken off. He spends several hours a day up on the pegs, as a training method. He has the answer to the problem! :eek:
Not if has a momentary memory relapse & sits down :eek: :eek:

Not if has a momentary memory relapse & sits down

:eek:

Ouch!

Originally posted by trmcgeehan
Several years ago, Bicycling Magazine mentioned a cyclist who trains with the seat taken off. He spends several hours a day up on the pegs, as a training method. He has the answer to the problem! :eek:

Is this why I'm seeing some trials bikes that don't even have a way to mount a seatpost? :D

So, this article is talking about ED. Not to be confused with infertility. Have to have a gun..........before you can shoot blanks:eek: I rode a ten speed huffy for six years. Put 1500-2500 miles on it annually. Yeah, my mileage increased alot, but that was not the cause. When I went to a rode bike, I instantly had problems with numbness. A shorter stem, and several saddles latter I had the problem solved. My bike shop(biscari brothers) in Liberty didn't fit me. Checked stand over and that was it. I ride a 58........it should have been a 56. Wish I had found bike forums sooner! anyway, The average joe, probably isn't riding higher end rode bikes. Riding the more upright, Xmarts. I think anyone having problems with numbness should do what they need to eliminate it. If the fit is right, there should be NONE. Long term, I DO think numbness will lead to ED. anyhoo, just my two cents worth.

Saw my doc at the VA yesterday. He stated categorically that the latest studies indicate conclusively cycling can cause sexual performance problems in men, no matter what kind of saddle is used. He is not a cyclist, but a great doc. I couldn't get him to back off from his position. He suggested a recumbent. :mad:

like to see the study.....there is no such thing as absolutely conclusive.

That is the first dogma of clinical research medicine.

I don't know what study he is referring to since I'm always reading through 20 -30 reasearch journals a week. Not going to teach the medical students or my residents this "absolute truth" yet.

To be honest, I have yet to see a good comparative study among different seats, especially one that incorporates experienced bikers or controls for bike fitting , which is critical. The characteristics of study participants influence clinical conclusions. If I compare 1000 smokers who walk five miles a day to obese, sedentary couch potatoes and measure their excercise capacity, I can catagorically prove that smoking increases excercise capacity (this is not far off from the medical studies sponsered by the tobacco companies in the years past)

This does not take away from him being a good clinician, just that on the academic end, we have to be criticial of all studies and foregone conclusions since they change all the time

I suspect that working at the VA he keeps abreast of studies that pertain to the majority of the veterans, those 55 and older and may be looking at research that incorporates older population which has a higher incidence of erectile dysfunction. The urologists here on the academic end of things get referrals to see alot of semi pro athletes, including bicyclists. (One urologist on faculty here actually was a Cat2 racer before he went to med school so he is very senstive about screening for that in his own practice when he sees bicyclists.) He and the rest have yet to concede a problem, but then they only see experienced ones. (Being referred to them for vasectomies, inguinal hernias etc.)

Originally posted by trmcgeehan
Saw my doc at the VA yesterday. He stated categorically that the latest studies indicate conclusively cycling can cause sexual performance problems in men, no matter what kind of saddle is used. He is not a cyclist, but a great doc. I couldn't get him to back off from his position. He suggested a recumbent. :mad:
The key phrase is, "...can cause sexual performance problems in men..."

Again, the main causes of ED are other health problems, combined with aging. Recommending that people stop bicycling to prevent ED is like recommending spending more on your credit card and getting deeper in debt just to qualify for a free gift.

Trmcgeehan, I'm not arguing with you, I know whose side your on! :D

I think premature death from heart attack or stroke might affect my sexual performance quite a bit...

Of course, cycling can and does cause health problems. Even such "benign" activities like sitting on the couch and watching TV causes health problems.

Aerobics does cause health problems. I personally know a woman, who decided to start the new life, went to aerobics class, and has the torn leg muscle at the first training. It resulted in surgery and one month in the hospital.

I would not take lightly such warnings. I, for example, make the short pause after every 10 km to rest and do some stretching. I often rise from the saddle to generate more power output, especially on uphills, or just stand on the pedals during downhill.

What disturbs me, is that this warnings coincides with the beginning of Bicycle Week in the UK. Hmm... Empire strikes back?

Originally posted by Max
What disturbs me, is that this warnings coincides with the beginning of Bicycle Week in the UK. Hmm... Empire strikes back?

I will offer up the benefit of doubt and assume that the author(s) meant well in getting the article published by attempting to raise a flag to possible issues with cycling in light of Bike Week so that the average person who has never ridden regularly would not just go jump on a bike and end up hurting themselves. But because they did not go far enough to address appropriate precautions (ie. proper bike-fitting, proper cycling technique and gradually increasing saddle-time) all they've managed to do is introduce more contraversy and fear. OTOH, the media lives for sensationalism.

The people who do these studies just don't understand bicycles. Riding a bike is not the problem... riding a bicycle INCORRECTLY is the problem.