Classic & Vintage - For those who own/ride vintage track bikes

Is your track bike smaller than your road frames or the same size? Someone mentioned to me the other day that your "track size" is a size smaller. I thought that was a matter of preference. I find with a track stem and criterium handle bars I am quite comfortable in the drops, could be lower I guess... what are your thoughts? Pics welcome... I would post one of mine but I don't have a camera an I finished it today..

well why not here is an almost there pic:
I have glued the continental sprinters on and swapped the nitto for a 2A stem and criterium bars.

http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/d/232080-2/IMGP2780-1.jpg

Very nice!

Maybe the smaller size is to get a tighter, more compact body position. For Aerodynamics?

30 years ago, it was common to get 1cm or 1/2" smaller frame for a track bike, purpose was to get one down farther, can also be acheived by a #2 or #3 drop Cinelli Pista stem, smaller was also considered better for stiffness of the frame. In the 40 and 50's often frames for a given rider were spec'd larger than in the 70's. The "correct" size for a rider changed over time, even when made to measure, also the pedaling style of the rider should be accounted for, it will change the "best" position as well, and for younger racers, the effect of a gear limit, many will creep forward on the sadle in an attempt to spin 200+ rpm.

quess I should be riding a 60 or 61cm... but I am not a competitor so it doesn't really matter but this bike is the same as all my others in seat tube.

Here's mine, with a temporary rear wheel:
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d28/drong/alldone.jpg

As with all my bikes, the fit is a little kludged. As you can see, the stem is frikkin long (13 and a bit cm), and the campy post has a decent amount of setback, so the saddle is pushed quite far forward on the clamp. I'm not comfortable in the drops over long distances, but for short hustles, it's quite alright. Been wanting to swap ot to a shorter stem, and perhaps (horrors!) switching to riser bars, just for Schlitz and giggles.

Being more of a hunter/gatherer than a winning bidder, I've had to make do with some weird fitting parts, usually owing to the unholy trinity of vanity, cheapness, and laziness. Oh, and toss in rapidly shifting priorities as a result of multiple bike projects, and you have an ergonomic disaster on your hands.

As for sizing down track frames, my best guess is that saddle-to-bar drop is supposed to be much bigger for track than on a pure road bike. Bigger drop = more weight on your hands, so a smaller frame will get you over top of your bars better, as well as allow for that major drop.

Oh, and cyclotoine, if your nitto stem needs a good home, pm me.

Nitto stem and bars are already long gone... I would have easily traded plus cash for your setup! But yeah I would say that if you should expect discomfort on any length over 10km or so if your track bike is size properly for the track. That is what I am getting at ultimately, this bike is for the track. It's been a long time coming (got it in January) and i rode it for the first time today, feel great though maybe a tad large for track racing... oh well... just means I have to get another... like that 1971 Raleigh I can't afford in Seattle owner by a certain CR member, but is probably already sold.

the steep st angle on some track frames would give a marginally higher saddle height than the same st length on a more relaxed frame..

also a consideration (at least for the street) would be standover height.. track frames with their high bb throw things off a bit..

Would someone please tell me what (and what for) the "thing" is on the top tube that looks a bit like a coupler? I've noticed it on several track bikes. I need to know for my continuing classic bike education program! ;-)

Al

Top tube protector. On most roadies the brake cable tension prevents the handle bars from swinging all the way around. Since track bikes don't run brakes, theres nothing stopping the bars from beatin the hell outta the top tube. So you attach a top tube protector to take the beating.

cheers.

Would someone please tell me what (and what for) the "thing" is on the top tube that looks a bit like a coupler? I've noticed it on several track bikes. I need to know for my continuing classic bike education program! ;-)

Al

That thing is called a top-tube protector. Its there to prevent your bars from damaging your top tube if/when you crash.

Here's mine! I ride, for preference, between a 24 and 25.5 (I have smaller frames too). This one is a 24, and it feels perfect. I have 25.5 on my tourer, which is good because I want a smaller seat - bars drop, but don't really want a tall stem.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a322/Samuelw72/DSC00054.jpg

I suspect that the reason for the smaller frame is that on most track bikes the BB is higher from the ground than on a conventional bike. If two bikes have the same size seat tube that raises the top tube to the point where it could get get uncomfortable if you dismount in a hurry. Roger

I did a little check on some of my bikes for standover. The 75 Jeunet with the slack seattube had the lowest (under 34), the tourer (nishiki international 43 and 7/16) and the track bike had the highest 34 and 7/8!... I have yet to check some of the other bikes. My cycling inseam is 37" though so it's okay. Sammyboy, I was alway under the impression your bates was a 62cm. Is 24" the C-t measure or c-c? Either way that makes it a size smaller than my monsternoni. Hmm I think I just named it... the Monster.

Speaking of classic track bikes, do I need to attend more velodrome events to find one? That E.G. Bates is sick. I also saw a Melton a while back. Beautiful bikes and I haven't been able to turn over any stones to find 'em.

Cheers.

Would someone please tell me what (and what for) the "thing" is on the top tube that looks a bit like a coupler? I've noticed it on several track bikes. I need to know for my continuing classic bike education program! ;-)

Al

It's a piece of clear PVC tubing I got from Rona (same as home depot). I just cut a slit lengthwise, put it on the bike, then taped it back together. In the event of a crash / barsmack, the cloth tape wouldn't afford much protection from a top tube ding, thus the protector. You can also get an NJS tt protector, which is much more attractive, somewhat more effective, and $40 more expensive than my setup.

you can also get the leather one (like on mine) from velo orange:

http://www.velo-orange.com/toptupr.html

very classy in my opinion and the price is reasonable since it comes with needles, thread and instructions.

Speaking of classic track bikes, do I need to attend more velodrome events to find one? That E.G. Bates is sick. I also saw a Melton a while back. Beautiful bikes and I haven't been able to turn over any stones to find 'em.

Cheers.

These WERE for sale a month or two ago, I strongly considered the Raleigh. My size 61cm:
http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/CoolBikes/NelsonMillerRaleigh1.jpg

http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/CoolBikes/NelsonMillerZeus1.jpg

Bill Walton rode a track bike, a Falcon. With a HUGE seatpost. So, you are not too big.

Bill Walton rode a track bike, a Falcon. With a HUGE seatpost. So, you are not too big.

you mean seattube? seatpost would indicate he road a small frame for his size...

"That thing is called a top-tube protector. Its there to prevent your bars from damaging your top tube if/when you crash."

Thanks guys!

Al

you mean seattube? seatpost would indicate he road a small frame for his size...

The biggest Falcon would make was like 25 1/2" or so, his seatpost was 18" long

Bill Walton rode a track bike, a Falcon. With a HUGE seatpost. So, you are not too big.

I have a picture of him in a older cycling book riding a track bike, but it is definately a custom affair if I ever saw one. I can't scan it, but will try to take a pic if I can find it.

As for track bikes I normally ride 63cm frames in road and have two vintage track bikes that are the same size(and one newer also same size). Here are pics:

http://velospace.org/files/DSCF0451_0.JPG

http://velospace.org/files/DSCF0455.JPG

Bill Walton rode a track bike, a Falcon. With a HUGE seatpost. So, you are not too big.

I wasn't thinking I was too big but maybe the bike... but it doesn't matter. Sometime you think something is so perfect and then some dark cloud comes into your mind and you dwell under it when there is sunlight all around. I took a spin tonight and am back in the sun.

redxj, thank for posting the pics. with that kind of post extension you must have a huge inseam! Then again with shorter track cranks you need to raise your post or you won't get full extension. In fact if my frame were any smaller I wouldn't be able to use my vintage posts. 180mm campy and all the rest would be too short.

Where do you guys find these bikes?! Velodromes, is that where these beauties are to be found? The velodrome in London, Ontario is very new so there are not any old track frames to buy for cheap, Ebay is an option of course, but they go for a hefty sum lately.

Jet! pretty late in good ol' T-dot. Anyway, ironically my Marinoni came from Michigan. I risked it because I am Canadian and so is Marinoni, I love my 1992 Marinoni Special road bike (you know the if you could have one recreational bike... this would be it type bike). This track bike has the same dimensions, so I pulled the trigger. I already had the pedals (local trade) and the hubs (ebay) and the tubulars (nos CL) sitting around. When I get the right price I go for it and put it in the some day soon drawer. I almost pulled the trigger on a pinkish and yellow serotta track bike late last year but decided against it. Ultimately, I knew big track bikes were rare and I bet there is very few 62 cm lugged marinoni track bikes (could this be the only one!?)... I sold off all the modern junk on it (velocity deep V el' crappo overprice wheels) and slowly put it together since acquiring it in late January. On the other hand if I hadn't bought the marinoni I would have bough Nelson Millers 71 Raleigh with full record track group.

Where do you guys find these bikes?! Velodromes, is that where these beauties are to be found? The velodrome in London, Ontario is very new so there are not any old track frames to buy for cheap, Ebay is an option of course, but they go for a hefty sum lately.

Mine was an eBay snag. It was advertised simply as "hand built racing bike". A steal at £220, but still by far my most expensive bike.

I was extremely lucky and my first one found me getting ready for a ride on a fixed conversion I had. A guy pulls up as I am getting ready and says he has a 25" track bike, 25" road bike, and some parts he wants to sell. Both bikes are Schwinn Paramounts and I ended up buying everything he wanted to get rid of for less than the price one of the frames goes on Ebay for ($330 for everything). My Viner track bike was listed on Ebay and local. It had no bids and was a reserve auction. I asked the seller the reserve and would he end the auction for the right price he said yes. I made an offer and he took it ($700 most I have paid for any of my road/track bikes), but it came with two wheelsets (both tubies one 7600 Dura Ace/GP4/Campagnolo Strata and the other High Flange Campagnolo/Mavic). The Campagnolo/Mavic is for the Paramount, but it is currently setup for street use with bullhorns and clincher wheelset.

You can try what I did recently and put up a WTB track bike ad on Craigslist. I just picked up a 20+ year old lugged steel Fuji track bike from someone that answered an ad of mine.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/211/495098647_2d663b1214.jpg?v=0

Wow, that Fuji is gorgeous redxj, nice find. I have placed a couple of ads but nothing turns up; I think that the Toronto market is pretty competitive so track bikes are far and few between. I ride an aluminium GT GTB track bike but I would really rather have a nice lugged steal bike. A Marinoni like Cyclotine's would be sweet for the same reasons that he mentioned, it is high quality steel made by a high quality Canuck company.

I will be patient and something will turn up, I just find it hard to be patient all the time ;)

I have a picture of him in a older cycling book riding a track bike, but it is definately a custom affair if I ever saw one. I can't scan it, but will try to take a pic if I can find it.


I found it. Here is the picture of Walton on a track bike from The Complete Book of Long-Distance and Competitive Cycline by Tom Doughty 1983

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/248/516896080_9cafa3b8df.jpg

Thanks Redxj, that is one big bike. Here is mine, I love it... it rides beautifully, I am taking it to the velodrome on the 6th of june to start the course which one must take to be allowed to ride there.

http://gnook.org/sbr/marinoni/content/bin/images/large/_MG_1751.jpg
http://gnook.org/sbr/marinoni/content/index.html
http://gnook.org/sbr/marinoni/content/bin/images/large/_MG_1747.jpg
http://gnook.org/sbr/marinoni/content/bin/images/large/_MG_1748.jpg
http://gnook.org/sbr/marinoni/content/index.html
http://gnook.org/sbr/marinoni/content/bin/images/large/_MG_1753.jpg
http://gnook.org/sbr/marinoni/content/bin/images/large/_MG_1756.jpg

Yup. Your track bike should be a bit smaller than your road bike by an inch or two. Lighter, stiffer, tighter frame. More efficient at transfering energy, and so on. If your track bike is the same size as your road bike, ride it anyway. It's all good, right?

Yup. Your track bike should be a bit smaller than your road bike by an inch or two. Lighter, stiffer, tighter frame. More efficient at transfering energy, and so on. If your track bike is the same size as your road bike, ride it anyway. It's all good, right?

It's all very good, I have the post at max heigh, if the frame was any small I would have to use a modern seatpost:eek:. It's columbus SP with ovalised seat tube and downtube to it's a very stiff frame! Guiseppe made his large bikes with thicker tubing. Seems intelligent to me. I always have to wonder if a builder was thinking about the ride or the sale when is see 60cm or bigger frame with columbus SL even SLX on a 62cm (yes I have seen them) doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense to me when SPX and/or SP is available. Give me the few grams extra and a stiffer frame thank you (i have 4 SP/SPX frames in 62cm).

Wow, that Marinoni is nice, and just my size. And you found it in my state. I love the maple leaf cutouts in the lugs. The little details like that make a frame in my opinion. My Viner is Columbus tubing. I would love to know what one it is made out of. It is my lightest bike by a number of pounds (under 18). I could give an exact number but the headset is out waiting for my Gipiemme headset from Ebay. I paid for it on the 20th and it hasn't even shipped yet!!! Last time I buy anything from that ebay seller. My Schwinn Peloton fixed gear conversion is made of SL/SP mix and it is a couple of pounds heavier (little over 20)

I am hope to get out to my local velodrome and take the beginner class so I can give the track a try. My one problem is deciding what bike to ride.

hay..
slx, while often considered fancier than sl, is marginally heavier... it's the tubeset with internal rifling/spines/reinforcement..
in theory it's supposed to be a bit stiffer than sl and i've heard it was useful for the larger frame sizes


It's all very good, I have the post at max heigh, if the frame was any small I would have to use a modern seatpost:eek:. It's columbus SP with ovalised seat tube and downtube to it's a very stiff frame! Guiseppe made his large bikes with thicker tubing. Seems intelligent to me. I always have to wonder if a builder was thinking about the ride or the sale when is see 60cm or bigger frame with columbus SL even SLX on a 62cm (yes I have seen them) doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense to me when SPX and/or SP is available. Give me the few grams extra and a stiffer frame thank you (i have 4 SP/SPX frames in 62cm).

hay..
slx, while often considered fancier than sl, is marginally heavier... it's the tubeset with internal rifling/spines/reinforcement..
in theory it's supposed to be a bit stiffer than sl and i've heard it was useful for the larger frame sizes

Yes but SPX is even stiffer!

Wow, that Marinoni is nice, and just my size. And you found it in my state. I love the maple leaf cutouts in the lugs. The little details like that make a frame in my opinion. My Viner is Columbus tubing. I would love to know what one it is made out of. It is my lightest bike by a number of pounds (under 18). I could give an exact number but the headset is out waiting for my Gipiemme headset from Ebay. I paid for it on the 20th and it hasn't even shipped yet!!! Last time I buy anything from that ebay seller. My Schwinn Peloton fixed gear conversion is made of SL/SP mix and it is a couple of pounds heavier (little over 20)

I am hope to get out to my local velodrome and take the beginner class so I can give the track a try. My one problem is deciding what bike to ride.

Yeah you have some REALLY nice bikes, I have looked at your Velospace several times. I am guessing in it's current set up, my marinoni weights in at at least 20lbs. I am going to weight it in the next couple days. I have a cinelli 2A 12cm coming in the mail which I intend to mate with 42cm cinelli criteriums, which will make and easy swap for weight savings at the track. I might also put my titanium rolls on there to get the weight down. My marinoni special strada is an SP/SPX mix, my faggin is full SPX and my other marinoni strada is SP/cromor (the lightest frame of the bunch).

PS. Take the paramount to the track!

Actually, I have changed a number of items on the Viner than from the pics on velospace. I dropped down to a 49T Sugino chainring, switched seatpost, added Time ATAC pedals, changed bar/stem (120mm Nitto Jag stem with Nitto B123AA in 40cm width), and swapped to a clincher wheelset. The wheelset isn't vintage at all, but I wanted to run some clinchers so I could at least ride it some. They are the wheelset from the red/yellow fuji: Black 32 H Paul hubs laced 3X to Black Non-MSW Velocity Aeroheads with a pair of Conti Gatorskins 700x23.

Actually, I have changed a number of items on the Viner than from the pics on velospace. I dropped down to a 49T Sugino chainring, switched seatpost, added Time ATAC pedals, changed bar/stem (120mm Nitto Jag stem with Nitto B123AA in 40cm width), and swapped to a clincher wheelset. The wheelset isn't vintage at all, but I wanted to run some clinchers so I could at least ride it some. They are the wheelset from the red/yellow fuji: Black 32 H Paul hubs laced 3X to Black Non-MSW Velocity Aeroheads with a pair of Conti Gatorskins 700x23.

Someone I know is selling a set of Dura-Ace track hubs on GP4s. I don't need another set of track tubulars, but maybe I can put those beefy tufos I got from Lotek on the back and cover it with a layer of liquid rubber every night before I go riding and see how long tubulars can hold up to skiding... or I could always unclace and put on clinchers and have yet another set of spare tubulars rims. I'm gonna have to have a rim sale soon!!